Tesla spent years building a brand identity that is intimately woven together with Musk. It’s damaged goods now as far as I’m concerned. Every time I encounter one of its products I think about it. It wasn’t too long ago when I was eagerly following product updates in the hopes of eventually buying a car power wall or that solar roof system. I was enthusiastic about rationalizing away the poor build quality and terrible customer support. Now, I would never buy a thing from them and I’m happy to pass judgement on anyone who does. $tslaq
Even beyond Musk the quality of Tesla’s for the price is absolute shit. His presence just makes it even worse. The main selling point for them was the higher range but seems like that may have been a lie the whole time.
A lot of cheap surface level stuff. For example, my dad has a model 3, and the back of the passenger chair just falls off. And by the back I mean the hard plastic shell that holds the seat pocket for the passengers in the second row to use.
There have also been reports of things like mismatched tail lights, cars leaking when it rains, and bumpers just falling off. But I haven’t seen those in person.
Search “Tesla panel gap issues”. Tons of people complaining and many say that trying to fix the issue causes other, bigger gaps, or just gets worse. I’ve heard rumor that if you try to fix them, you’ll void some kind of Tesla support.
Oh, and one of the most damning ones in my book. During a car fire, which Tesla has had PLENTY of, some genius decided that the door locks should default to LOCKED. Who the actual fuck thought this was acceptable? How did they ever make it into production.
There’s a video floating around of a guy kicking his windows out to escape his burning Tesla.
Dumb dumb musk decided he was smarter than everyone else, (spoiler he’s not) and overrode his own engineers. He decided there were no physical sensors required for auto driving, only cameras. Every other manufacturer knows that not possible yet, but musk knew better
Yes, a lot of car fires are difficult to extinguish, and yes, electric/hybrids more so, but teslas are exceptional. Can’t out out the many teslas that catch fire When the local fire dept came by to inspect our business we got to chatting and they said that they had a Tesla catch fire. They used everything in their arsenal, and a LOT of water. Like more than you could imagine. Then it got towed to a holding yard. Someone parked it up against a building, and next to quite a few other vehicles waiting for legal things/inspections. Tesla reignited in the tow yard and took out everything near it too. The yard is in BIG trouble for damaging a whole lot of evidence/vehicles being held for court cases, etc.
The claim isn’t that they have more fires than other EV or ICE cars. The claim is that if they do have a fire they will trap you and your family in it.
I’m not a Musk fan at all but some of these are misleading or just downright wrong.
Tesla is only the most recalled brand if you categorize “recalls” to include software updates. If Tesla can fix an issue via an OTA update, it shouldn’t be considered a recall but it is in the source being used.
Teslas do have build issues but they’re not overwhelmingly more present than other cars. They’re only showing that way because Tesla only has 4 models of car and the build issues carry over from year to year. That’s not the case for other cars where, like with a Jetta, the body is redesigned but the name stays the same.
The door lock thing is also misleading because the case would be the same for any other car where the driver locked the doors. Either way, the fire department is breaking a window. They don’t have magic keys to open every car door out there. The fire department could pull on the handle all day long and it wouldn’t matter. The driver locked the doors and could have opened them but didn’t (and there’s even a special manual override for them along with a Fire Department quick access switch at the front of the car).
Edit: People are downvoting objectively true information.
That very much understates it. It is the kind of “would be criminal if human rights mattered in this country” stupidity that has been solved for decades. Because it is the kind of thing that makes abductions a lot easier AND can lead to unnecessary deaths in a collision on the off chance the… lithium batteries ignite.
I didn’t miss crap. The cars have a mechanical release on the inside. If the driver was conscious, he could pull the switch which doesn’t need power and would unlock the doors. The OP’s comment and link were referencing the outside of the doors since the Model S has retractable handles that are flush with the door when they’re locked so there’s no handle to grab.
The only exception is the Model X since it has the full-wing doors. Those have a release that is only accessible if you pull off the speaker grill so you’d need to know about that ahead of time.
First and foremost, when you have a vehicle with an electric door lock, you ALWAYS fail it to open. On a “normal” car (yeah there are some that are all electric now too), you have a physical switch that you flip, and it’s unlocked. The locking mechanism for the Tesla is electric, so in the case of the wires being damaged, or as witnessed, the car being on fire, you have no MECHANICAL mechanism to open the door. Supposedly, there is one INSIDE the door, lol what? but how many people will know that, and more importantly be able to access it in a panic?
I did a little more digging. SOME models are equipped with a mechanical release on the door (I assume it’s something you have to pay extra for), but not all of them. As I mentioned above, there is a mechanical option, but you would have to know exactly to remove the door card trim panel, and access the cable. People don’t even read enough of the owners manual to know how shit they really want works, let alone a safety issues.
Clearly you don’t understand what a recall is. Recalls are highly regulated, and things like a software update for the aircon do not fall under the recall term. In fact, manufacturers do everything in their power to avoid recalls. They will often issue a TSB, instead, when a recall isn’t being forced by the NHTSA. Good try though. As you can see from teslas own website (I don’t believe this is even close to all of them) they are ALL safety issues, which is what recalls are for, either voluntary, or forced by NHTSA.
No, they absolutely have more build quality issues than even the lowest trim shit econoboxes. I always say that a tesla is a corolla with a big computer in it, but even the corolla is built WAY better, and I’m old enough to remember 80s cars. Those were pretty damn bad.
First and foremost, how does a normal, non-Tesla car fail to an unlocked door? If the car caught fire and was locked, how does the car unlock the doors in your scenario? Teslas have a mechanical switch that’s no different from the situation you’ve described since the driver was passed out. The door needed to be opened from the outside so it’s literally no different for the Tesla.
Also, your digging was wrong. The Model 3, for example has a mechanical release right on the door that doesn’t need any digging or removal of anything. (teslamotorsclub.com/…/smartselect_20191224-132903…)
Clearly you don’t understand what a recall is
I know exactly what a recall is and you’re wrong again. In 2022 alone, Tesla came in 7th amongst auto manufacturers for recalls but 2nd in total cars affected because over-the-air fixes are still considered recalls. (autoblog.com/…/most-recalls-by-car-manufacturer-2…) Regardless of that, under no interpretation of it does Tesla have the most recalls of any car manufacturer, unless you include the OTA update recalls.
So it sounds like you don’t understand what a recall is.
Everything else you’ve said is subjective garbage. Unless you have some evidence to back up your claims, you’re just spreading more of the lies that are exactly what I’m complaining about. Tesla and Musk have enough real problems that you don’t need to make up their problems.
Burning lithium and other exotic metals are class D fires. They are extraordinarily difficult to extinguish. They burn hot enough to break down water into oxygen and hydrogen. Mainly you let them burn themselves out and try to prevent them from spreading to other more traditionally combustible materials.
There are also the people who got locked out of their cars because the battery died. Or even better the one that locked INSIDE their tesla when the 12v battery died. Getting locked inside a car, in AZ heat is deadly, VERY rapidly.
That’s like the door failing to locked when the car is on fire, or in an accident. Who the fuck let that pass QC?
Musk is a dipshit. But the brand was always doomed once other car manufacturers finally started pushing mainline EVs. Because why would you want an overpriced car with no steering wheel that leaks in the rain when you could just drive an electric Ford Focus?
But it is also worth noting that “crossover SUVs” are generally just another word for “hatchback”. I like Subaru and I forget if the Crosstrek is slightly larger, but it is essentially the hatchback imprezza on a lift kit (which is mostly a normal height since the impreza is a low rider for some unfathomable reason).
I am a wagon fan. I had long wondered why Europe had all these nice wagons and here in the US we had countless crappy SUV models and very few (if any) wagons. Back in the 70’s and 80’s emissions were the reason manufacturers moved from car-based larger capacity vehicles to truck-based. They simply did not have to meet nearly the same emissions requirements. Sucks for you consumer (and environment)!
No. I actually love Adaptive Cruise Control and use it every day in my subaru. To the point that I am genuinely a bit worried about renting a car and doing a lot of highway driving in a few weeks because I am rather rusty at fully maintaining my own speed and distance.
As for branding: I believe you are supposed to end every single nonsense non sequitor with “Interesting”. At least, that is what The Emerald Apartheid was doing last I checked. Or a poop emoticon.
When I rent cars I usually reserve a Toyota Corolla, they are usually the cheapest or second cheapest rental category and they come with adaptive cruise with 3 choices of follow distance and I’ve been really impressed with it, as Subaru driver.
Yeah, being anti-semitic and racist is kinda the default for white folks back then, source half my ancestry is rich white folks the other half is poor white folks.
Musk’s taint on the brand is I think majorly based on this type of thing. His twitter purchase has revealed that he’s a serial liar, and now people are seeing all of the ways that it is happening with Tesla. People tolerate assholes all of the time. What they don’t want to tolerate is snake oil salesmen, and I’m not sure there has ever been a bigger one than Musk.
Fun fact: teslas are the most recalled car brand in the country.
I don’t discredit the work done by the engineers there, I’d argue they laid the groundwork to usher in the future of electric cars in this country. But of course all the credit goes to musk. Just another situation like Steve Jobs. See Bill Burrs bit on Jobs and replace him with Musk, same exact story.
How many of those are real serious recalls that they didn’t just fix with easy tweaks over the air? I hate Musk as much of the next guy but I follow a lot of EV YT channels and even the ones that don’t like Tesla acknowledge that the media overhyped the recalls given how many of them have been easy OTA fixes. Plus since they iterate very fast and don’t just update the car once every four years often it only affects a small subset. Like 1-4k cars in some cases rather than the typical 100k recall that Toyota would have.
Lol so are the CEOs of all the other manufacturers people to look up to and admire? Would you buy a Volkswagen or did you own one when Martin Winterkorn was running it?
Elon is a man child, I don’t look to him for any insights or knowledge, would I buy a Tesla? Ya if the car itself is good, if it’s not good then I wouldn’t buy it. It wouldn’t have anything to do with Musk however
Who do you bank with? Do you hold those CEOs to the same standards and not use their products?
Good luck buying anything where there isn’t some ethical issues surrounding the people who are the the top of those corporations
Most other ceos shut their mouth and let the product speak. Tesla/Elon’s mo has been to have the product in the background with him at the forefront, that worked well until it didn’t
Most other ceos shut their mouth and let the product speak
I prefer my evil rulers behind the curtain, thank you very much!
*this is in no way a defence of Musk it's a pointing out how ridiculous it is to see a problem with him but not care about the other obscenely wealthy capitalists who not only exploit labour and hoard resources, but also basically own government via either corruption (aka "lobbying") or direct representation (ie all the rich fucks in government making rules for themsleves and their friends), just like Musk, simply because they're "polite" enough to do it behind closed doors.
That's not to say don't buy the things you need, it's to say don't be deluded in to thinking that it matters. As long as capitalism exists, governance by and for the rich isn't going anywhere, and your money will always be going to one of maybe a couple dozen people.
A big lesson from Trump and others like him is that when someone’s a piece of shit and brags about it in public, it looks innocuous and at best it may be revealing and may validate your views on power and the flaws of society, but on another level he’s likely to give voice to, rally and convince other assholes to feel entitled and protected to act like assholes and then you have an actual problem. So yes, polite amorality is better.
When someone tells you all companies are evil, that’s fine. When someone tells you all companies are equally evil, they’re showing themselves to be morally incompetent.
(Same goes for politicians: If someone tells you all politicians are corrupt, that’s fine; if they tell you all politicians are equally corrupt, you can bet that person votes for fascists.)
Not sure where we disagree here? You are right the jackass just can’t keep his mouth shut I don’t care what his beliefs are though, I don’t go to corporations for my ethics, I go to them because I want to buy a product
In that case you must then remove yourself from society, since not only does at least 90% of the money you spend end up in the pockets of evil people, but evil people are also keeping much if not most of your hard earned money for themselves before you ever know it existed by paying you less than your labour is worth (what you earned them).
Nothing wrong with that but… again do you do that across the board all the time because if you do congrats it’s not an easy thing to accomplish
And I’m not dumb I know it doesn’t have to be an all or nothing, doing it when you can is great I just can’t stand people who pontificate about shitheads like Musk but buy all their shit from Amazon
Tesla spent years building a brand identity that is intimately woven together with Musk.
It worked well for a long time but it makes sense if people lose faith in Musk they lose faith in Tesla. Because he is synonymous with the brand.
Lol so are the CEOs of all the other manufacturers people to look up to and admire?
They haven’t built their brands around the reputation of their ceo.
Would I buy a Tesla? Ya if the car itself is good.
How can you evaluate if a car is good? It has recently been revealed that Tesla/Musk was exaggerating their range so severely that Tesla owners thought their cars were defective. Tesla has been trading on a reputation of ‘goodness’ that it didn’t deserve.
Tesla is seeing repercussions from risks they took tying their brand so tightly with Musk.
If anyone bought a Tesla because of Musk they were idiots, so same logic applies the other way
You could argue Apple built its brand around Jobs (who died because of his moronic beliefs about natural cures) and now Cook… pretty sure Apple kowtows to Chinese censorship and also does shitty things (I’m typing this on an iPhone right now) so I’m no fan of Jobs or Cook I just don’t give a fuck about them, I bought it because it’s the best phone for me
The range issues are pretty funny, people thinking they were defective is comical, I will however point out that is nothing new all auto manufacturers have done this for the decades with fuel economy numbers, I can’t tell you how many people we would have come through the dealership complaining about fuel economy after buying a new car
As far as evaluating if a car is good or not of course you can do that, do research on reliability issues, check recalls, ask friends and family who have actually owned them if they are any good, if you have a mechanic that you know ask them
You can’t have a rational discussion about Tesla on lemmy. So many people are so sick of hearing about Musk that only those who REALLY hate him will click on an article about him. Those people can not separate the product from the vocal dirtbag that is its CEO.
I personally think Musk is a massive pile of garbage but that wouldn’t make me not buy a Tesla, I’ll buy it if it’s a decent car, if I had the money right now it would be between a Tesla and an Ionic
People trying to tie their purchases to the ethics of the people who run the companies are divorced from reality imo
Ah the ole “you’re a hypocrite because your life contains contradictions”… Elon musk shoved his way into my life but according to you my buying decisions are wrong if I don’t actively ignore that douche
It’s less about hypocrisy and more about what’s wrong with just buying something and not having it also have to be an existential moral crisis, don’t buy a Tesla because you think Musk is a genius but if you already own one and are gonna sell it because of Musk then that’s also ridiculous, if you are looking for an electric car and strictly won’t buy it even if it’s the best option based on the money then that just seems over the top to me is all
I have a bank account yet I’m no fan of banks, I’m typing on an iPhone, apple does shitty things, I buy shit from Amazon when I have to… I despise billionaires
Biggest issue is social. Buying a Tesla associates you positively with musk (by design), and from my experience most Tesla owners are incredibly annoying about it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to avoid the stigma. Same reason people buy Harleys - the brand name and cultural associations on a vehicle matter a lot, sometimes even more than the car itself.
I can see what you are saying but that’s not a universal thing, like when it comes to Tesla I never associated that with Musk he’s just the shithead that owns it, to me it’s more about the most widely available semi affordable electric car you could buy since the legacy manufacturers dragged their asses wasting time with hydrogen and hybrids
I guess the difference I have here with people is exactly that, I don’t attach him as being Tesla
That was a good way of putting it describing it like a Harley, makes sense. I ride motorbikes and I dgaf about what brand I own, I’d ride anything including a Harley
In addition, almost all big car manufacturers now have far better EVs in terms of quality, features, and looks. Tesla no longer has the monopoly they enjoyed for almost a decade. If you’re selling me an EV with this shit stain on it, I’d just go the shop next door.
Let his fascist followers buy his EVs….oh wait, they hate them. Remember all the rage against EVs in Texas that led to “rolling coal” in Teslas, purposely parking F250s to take up all the Tesla charging stations, vandalism at charging stations, keying Teslas parked at malls? Yeah, those are the people he is fighting for.
I wanted a Tesla. I was ready to get a model 3. Then he went full blown ass clown and at first I thought it was a joke, like he was just messing around being funny. Then I realized how big of a dbag he really is and yeah, no thanks. I bought a CTS-V instead and although it’s the opposite of fuel efficient, it’s the most fun vehicle I’ve ever driven.
On the other hand, maybe we should start a foundation to buy Teslas for trans people. Can you imagine how pissed Musk would get if it suddenly became cool to be trans in a Tesla?
Someone point me in the direction of an EV that’s better in terms of price and performance. I hate Musk, but this anti-tesla shit is ridiculous to me. I’d buy another one because the CEO of a car company isn’t the reason for my car purchase. How people can’t separate that is so strange to me. Capitalism sucks, but what other car company is transitioning us away from fossil fuels better and quicker? Fuck Musk, but Tesla has the right mission statement. Without them, EVs would still be another few decades away
On another note if you are interested in the topic, I can’t recommend Growing Up in Scientology enough on YouTube.
Aaron is an amazing educator, commentator, and satirist on the subject of Scientology. Beyond that he has one of the most genuine, yet charismatic personalities of any person on the platform. I can’t say enough good things about him, his journey, and his work with both exposing as well as freeing people from Scientology’s grip.
Yeah A A Ron covers Scientology really well, cuts through the nonsence with a great deal of knowledge about the subject and does a lot to help victims of the cult. Well worth a watch.
Flo Barnett shot herself three times in the chest and once in the head with a long rifle.
Gary Webb, who exposed the crack cocaine conspiracy within the CIA shot himself twice in the head with a revolver. FWIW, Webb’s death Bay actually have been a suicide. The first shot went through his face.
Shelly Miscavige is still held unlawfully by Scientology.
Are you sure about that? I don’t mean that in the sense of doubting that Scientology kidnapped her, but in the sense that I’m unaware of any proof she’s even still alive.
This is why I don’t watch Tom Cruise, Elisabeth Moss, et al vehicles. You can’t separate the art from the artist when you’re literally financing their criminal organization.
Shelly Miscavige…bueller?..anyone? Its only been since 2007 since anyone saw her and a celebrity called it out in 2013. im sure shelly is just on an oasis getaway and forgot to turn on her phone.
If doctors (or pharmacists) want the choice to impose their own religion on their patients, then at minimum need need to disclose that before ever meeting a patient. Additionally it would disqualify them from accepting any patients that are subsidized with taxpayer money.
This could act like the Surgeon General’s warning on a pack of cigarettes:
WARNING: this physician acts with their own religion in mind before your well being. This could be a danger to your health.
Except it doesn;t. Right now, roughly 20% of all hospitals in the US are owned by a religion; most are Catholic, and about 1/4 of them are ‘some other religion’. That is up from 12% is 1995. What that means is that, in many cases–especially when it’s an emergency–you won’t have any choice at all except to accept religion-tainted healthcare.
I’ve lived in places where the only option covered by my insurance was religions.
It’s becoming a religion issue as Catholic groups take over more and more hospitals, because they’re going to eliminate health care for things that are against their religious principles.
IMO healthcare should not be permitted to have religion interfering.
I don't understand why this is even allowed. If someone had a religious opposition to consuming or enabling the consumption (cooking, serving, etc) of certain foods -- shellfish, pork, sweets during lent, meat in general, whatever -- that person could not reasonably expect to get a job in a restaurant where that food is regularly served. Like, if a waiter showed up for work at a steakhouse one day and refused to touch any plate with meat on it on religious grounds, no one would be on that waiter's side when there are vegan restaurants that waiter could have applied to instead.
Doctors are held to a different standard because... the mental gymnastics say it's totally fine when it's a woman being denied service I guess?
If these healthcare "professionals" only want to treat men like they deserve humane care, they should be in a field more suited to their preferences.
Failing that, yes, I agree with your comment entirely.
Analogies are tools to assist understanding, and having opposition debate the analogies themselves instead of the actual points they're used to make is a sign of a weak rebuttal.
So let's ignore all the haggling over the analogy and bring it back to the broader point: People should not be in jobs which their personal beliefs prevent doing significant or important aspects of. And equality between genders is objectively an important aspect of health care. These "professionals" should not be in the health care field at all, save perhaps male-focused care fields like prostate or testicular health.
I’m going to try again (and you know, maybe I’m just wrong but here’s what I’m seeing).
There are doctors in the medical field already, with specific beliefs that may be sexist but are not generally speaking, sexist people. There is also a shortage of doctors.
Do we really want to throw out an entire doctor (that takes years of training) because they don’t want to do a particular procedure?
There is a secondary point of when is refusal to do a procedure sexism or religion vs genuine medical objection to the harms caused (in their medical opinion).
There is an additional point where I fundamentally think legal compulsion is a terrible tool in a free society and should be used as an absolute last resort.
When it comes down to something as sensitive as medicine, I’d rather my doctor be on board or I find a different doctor vs my doctor being compelled to do something they don’t believe in or outright having no doctor to go to because … there aren’t enough.
There’s also the possibility (and it seems like in the video) that the Roe v Wade issue is also making this doctor far more skiddish even in New York State. We really haven’t heard his side and that really is an important perspective.
Surely there’s somebody else this woman could see as well? There’s no way this guy is the only one that knows about these medications and maybe another doctor would like to use a different medication anyways. There are plenty of other cases of doctors saying “you’re fine” to people regardless of gender or sex and them needing to see a different doctor before getting the right treatment.
I originally went after your analogy because it’s so beyond comparison. You might as well make an analogy between a rocket scientist and a scientologist. There are so many layers of nuance here. Driving politics into medical decisions is part of how we got here … is adding more complex “do I need a lawyer (to do what I believe is the best practice)” to a doctor’s practice really a good idea?
That presumably kind of worked for racism but I still can’t imagine the truly racist doctors were giving their best service; like we didn’t just say “you must see black patients or leave medicine” and then the problems were fixed. There are plenty of black people alive today that still distrust the institution of medicine – including my neighbor who refused to get vaccinated because he doesn’t trust doctors – because of what’s been done in the past.
Don’t get it either. I am sure it is quite possible to be a doctor and not be involved with abortion. I am an engineer and I have strong objections to working on military stuff, so I don’t work for military contractors. Other ones don’t so they do.
The people refusing are openly stating that it is because of their religious beliefs. If they try to hide it then it will become apparent very quickly when their opinion always ends up with something other than the thing they oppose.
No, they should have their medical license revoked. Doctors have to swear an oath to not intentionally or knowingly harm a patient for a reason, because their well being is their top priority. If they can’t adhere to that oath because of arbitrary religious/philosophical/political/whatever beliefs, then they have no business being a medical professional.
Pharmacists are also licensed professionals. If ANY healthcare worker cannot carry out the core duties of their profession, for whatever reason, in an equal manner regardless of personal belief and/or the identity of the patient, their license should be revoked.
Why do we maintain the licenses of individuals who cannot or will not complete the duties of the job for which they are licensed? To me, that defeats the whole purpose of a licensing system for healthcare workers. It’s not a license to dispense only to people with whom you agree and when you want to do so; it is an assurance on behalf of the community that you will carry out your duties professionally and ethically toward all, without exception.
I agree. A doctor putting their own religious beliefs over established medical science and the well being of their patient is completely against the Hippocratic Oath.
Unfortunately, the original Hippocratic oath that many doctors swear to includes a line about not performing abortions or prescribing abortifacients.
It is my understanding that, at the time that version of the oath was written, that was less a prohibition of abortion and more a matter of pregnancy and abortion being under the purview of midwives, not physicians.
To that point, I wrote my own medical oath that I will hold to because I think that things like autonomy, free choice, and dignity in death are actually important.
Thank you for clarifying, I did not know that about the Hippocratic Oath. I think it’s really cool that you wrote your own Oath. Thank you for your empathy and service to humankind.
The medical school I’m currently in is an Osteopathic school that leans pretty hard into the Christian traditions/origins of osteopathy, so it’s not terribly uncommon for me to get into philosophical and ethical arguments with my classmates and professors. There are a bunch of them that I know that I’ll never change their minds about most things, but the others who listen in to those arguments might be swayed or at least given a seed of doubt to explore further.
We could start our own list. When I say “we” I mean someone else, because I’m both not smart enough to build that, and not in the right place in the world.
Based on what I’ve read in r/childfree, it’s far more common than not for doctors to prioritize the needs of a hypothetical husband or fetus over those of a real live woman. I’ve also known someone in real life who couldn’t get a painful medical condition fixed until her mid 30s because the treatment caused sterility. The problem goes way beyond religion; it’s more a matter of institutional sexism and the hubris of doctors thinking they know better than any woman who says she doesn’t want kids.
I’ve been to several different OBs trying to solve my almost-two-year-long-period and every single one of them refuses to do anything for me. I’m just “too young” for them to stop me from having kids one day. And giving me a hysterectomy is “too dangerous” and “risky” when my life isn’t in danger. It doesn’t matter that I’ve tried everything they suggest. Try it again!! It’s so fucking tiring.
I’ve just given up paying the constant doctor fees to see asshole doctors anymore and just figure I’ll either stop having the problem eventually or I’ll be “old enough” (40 maybe?) to finally get surgery… It’s all a nightmare, especially in the religious south…
I’d check with a women’s group or Planned Parenthood for a doctor recommendation. They might know some sane ones.
Having been married to a sane one, I do know they’re spectacularly gunshy of affecting a woman’s fertility because it can get them sued into the ground if they do something like that to someone that someday wants kids. And patients lie, so when you tell a doctor that you don’t want kids, they assume you’re going to change your mind. And I’m not sure if there’s a disclosure you can sign that would hold up in court if you changed your mind one day. So there’s that.
I might try this! I haven’t tried Planned Parenthood yet.
Honestly I feel like I’ve tried everything to make them listen!! I’ve brought my wife with me to the appointments!! I’ve mentioned that I first brought up hysterectomies at 17 when I suffered from multi-week periods! I’ve mentioned I’m asexual and that I’m married and never even had sex so I don’t see kids in the future!
But I do get that doctors have to worry about the liars. I can get why it’s important to have the option to sue a doctor who wronged you but I wish there really was an intensive disclosure you could just do rather than run around until you find a doctor who’s willing to trust you not to regret it. It sucks all around.
Wow, all it took for me was a gay man clutching my testicles during a five minute conversation about how vasectomies aren’t really reversible for me to get clipped. I was only 30 years old
Can you find a doctor near you in the list in the r/childfree sidebar? That’s how I found mine, and she’s great. Good luck to you, I hope things turn out better. I’m sorry this is a thing :(
my friend was having enormous clots come out during her horrifically long periods, losing the amount of blood that was actually making her anemic and causing her problems, and they still didn't want to do anything because she was only in her 30s. thankfully she finally found a doctor who was like 'wow yeah you need that thing taken out of there its killing you' and she got it removed, but the fact she had to go through all that stress and pain to find anyone who would help her is absurd.
r/childfree has a list of providers by state that regularly provide hysterectomies. I recommend checking it out, and when you call for an appointment, say that you want a consultation for a hysterectomy and don’t say anything else. I saw one of the providers from that list and she agreed that a hysterectomy was appropriate for me (31 years old, no kids) in part because of how horrible my periods are when I’m not on continuous hormonal birth control. The only reason we didn’t schedule the surgery right then and there is because the Depo shot is working for the moment and she was concerned about how the recovery from surgery would affect my ability to study for medical school and board exams.
I actually tried three different providers from the childfree subreddit. One ended up refusing me entirely due to no insurance (I’m in Georgia and Medicaid hasn’t been expanded yet. Though there was a mini-expansion this year.) and another actually worked with me over the phone for around 2 months without making me go to an appointment and pay just to see if I had enough… “evidence” or something that they could sign off on a hysterectomy. They ended up telling me I’d need to at least re-try several things first. I couldn’t afford the surgery plus 5+ visits several hours away. The third closest option from the childfree list was in another state and couldn’t see me unless I had their state insurance coverage.
I’m trying the Depo shot now from the health department but it hasn’t helped at all. Thank you though! It’s a long road ahead.
Edit: The provider who worked with me over the phone did offer me an ablation but they couldn’t guarantee that it would fix the issues and it would cost me my entire hysterectomy savings fund so I just couldn’t justify it. I may have the term “ablation” wrong because I remember I spoke in depth about it and one other very similar procedure… Either way they were very nice at least and I can see why they are on the list.
Yeah, healthcare in this country is a hot mess in a lot of ways. Something that could help push it in the direction of getting coverage is if you have any family history of things like uterine fibroids, or gynecological cancers. It’s a pretty straightforward thing on the paperwork end of things if cancer prophylaxis is on the list of reasons.
Another thing you could consider in this capitalist hellscape is signing up for a plan off the ACA that has a deductible similar to or less than your savings. That way you would wipe out the deductible immediately, have access to more providers, and have some semblance of coverage for the rest of the year.
“Too risky” is such bullshit anyway. My OBGYN said that at my age (22), the only risks (aside from potential complications that come with ANY surgery) were a slightly early menopause (couple years max) and higher chance of vaginal prolapse (but that they put supports in place and there are things that can be done to correct this if it occurs)
Right?? That’s pretty much what it seemed like to me too. No doctor really wanted to go into it except one mentioned that “any surgery with anesthesia can be dangerous!” and I remember I ditched that doctor on the first visit. I think a lot of it is rural areas have… less than great doctors.
Most of my doctor hopping was at least 9 months ago now so it all kinda just blurs together now.
Claiming this is due to religion isn’t accurate. This happens all the time due to plain old misogyny. Women have a tough time getting proper medical treatment at all, not just when it overlaps with religious fruitcakes.
I mean it’s pretty easy. It doesn’t make a good marketing campaign for atheism, but the correlation between education and irreligion seems to be causal the other way. Being irreligious leads one towards more education, but becoming educated does not lead one away from religion… Getting a physics degree or medical degree just does not make you less religious.
One thing people leave out is that there is a LOT to religion and spirituality. Christianity, for example, is not entirely defined in terms of rejecting evolution. That’s just a (tiny) part of their beliefs. When you start in a science-denying religion (worst-case scenario), it’s still only a small percent of your beliefs that contradict the science. So some people stay believers and deny the contradictory science… others stay believers “except the science”.
Many people adhere to non-science-denying religions. So while they are naturally less likely to pick a science major, if they DO pick a science major, nothing in it will knock them out of their faith.
That’s true, I witnessed it firsthand, and it’s still baffling to me. Going for a degree in biblical studies and apologetics at a religious university whose draconian fundamentalist views I fully aligned with when I entered is ironically what caused me to actually question the “biblical inerrancy” doctrinal belief.
Reminds me of
Very few people come out of law school sovereign citizens.
Because medicine doesn’t require you to be atheistic and after a while some really need something that can provide hope however irrational that might be?
The human mind is something else. I work with so many skydaddy fearing engineers. Utterly freaken brilliant people without which civilization ends in fire and feces.
I was struggling with Biology for my associates degree back in 2007. I happened to teach Tae Kwon Do to the daughter of one of the state university Biology professors (I was only in community College at the time) and I asked the mom to tutor me.
And goddamn. As smart as she was regarding Biology, she bought into Christianity hook, line, and sinker (her husband was a pastor).
You guys are 31 trillion in debt. You aren't rich, you're just borrow money you can't pay back and keep increasing your debt limit.
It's nice spending money that's not yours until the lenders get fed up about the lack of payments and you default and go into bankruptcy. I cannot wait until the US debt situation explodes, watching from half way around the world.
And yes I'm aware pretty much every nation is in debt, but not to the extent the US is. But the US is by far the most in the hole.
I don't know why Americans think they're hot shit. You're literally just an echo chamber the rest of the world laughs at.
The worst part is the US is in so much debt but it’s citizens see none of the benefits of that spent money.
I think your downvotes are from fucking liberals that think the US has regained international respect because their team is now in charge. MAGA or BlueMAGA are cut from the same cloth as Republicans and Democrats.
This statement is trying to go for neutrality in the same way that asking a woman clutching a black eye “What did you say to him?” is just gathering information.
That is: it’s not, we see through it, and we’re tired of it.
It’s so fucking strange too. It’s like they brought this new TV and they’ll be damned if they’re going to be told it doesn’t work as well as advertised. I would think we could all unite about this, and we could show the world that not even the president can evade justice. But instead they’re still selling him hard.
Republicans: {smacks Donald’s ass} “This baby here can fuck up at least 10 democracies.”
A big part of many Republicans’ mindsets seem to be “how dare you tell me I’m wrong! Just for that, I’m going to double down!” Like I’ve seen it in things as petty as Republicans being told they’re using a comma the wrong way and then continuing to use it that way out of spite.
Bit of an aside, but one the smartest things I've ever done was after my dad brought his new TV and had just hooked it up, I quickly used the parental controls to delete Fox News from the channel lineup while he was looking away. He never even noticed, and he's in a much better mental state now.
Ever hear of the documentary “The Brainwashing Of My Dad”
It details how a sweet man became a monster when he started watching Fox, and went back to normal when the family intervened and stopped him from watching it.
It’s a recurring thing, people become terrible when they watch Fox, they snap out of it when access to Fox is blocked.
People treat political parties like sports teams, taking credit for all their victories while distancing themselves personally from every loss. WE won vs THEY blew it. I my anecdotal experience it’s especially bad on the right. Most conservative voters I know proudly say they’re a Republican but liberal voters will only say they vote Democrat, not that they are one.
That oft repeated claim of parallelism between the US Democrats and the CPC might have been more true in the past. I think there are significant differences nowadays as Poilievre plays with populist rhetoric and policy ideas. Considering the voting base the CPC is attempting to court, I’m not sure those two political parties are really in the same boat.
The outcome of FPTP-voting is naturally a two party system, the ancient wealthy romans designed it so deliberately in order for them to easily manipulate regardless of election outcomes to maintain their wealth and power. Everywhere it is used politics degenerate into voters being reduced to pick between “business as usual” and “tax cuts for the rich.” Wealthy donors play both horses and don’t really care about the outcome except when some progressive candidate appears and they find themselves forced to run some interference behind the scenes to help even the odds back to the usual bread and circus’ that they prefer.
We watched Trump go on national TV before the election and asked Russia to help him win the election. A foreign hostile country was invited to interfere with our democracy.
And Russia complied. That day.. How anyone thinks Trump and his supporters aren't traitors is mine boggling.
And then a number is Republicans went to Moscow on the 4th of July a few years later. I've never seen such an obvious case of someone's handler making a statement.
After Crimea was invaded by Russia? Later when he was trying to convince everyone Russia was going to do exactly what they did last year? “setting the stage for war” is something you do before a war.
yes he will be first against the wall, mainly because he spoke out about them, the self purging doesn’t start until after the fascist takeover.
and yes an.6 was an attempt to depose the democratically elected government, and yes it had planning, why do you think they had the gallows put up so fast? why do you think the people who broke in were armed and had cable ties? you know, the ones literally caught on video
America needs a new conservative party so that the republicans who are still sane don’t feel like crazy town is their only option to avoid being disenfranchised.
Jezus America are you ok? So about half your country are traitors as far as the other half is concerned? I’m not condemning or anything but fighting amongst yourselves like this is not going to work either.
It’s not half, more like about 1/3, but it’s also a little more complicated than that. Basically it’s all the fault of the first past the post voting system. Because of that, the only winning strategy is a two party system, any party beyond the main two only functions as a spoiler for one of the two. As such, a lot of different policies that aren’t really connected in any way end up mashed sort of arbitrarily into one of those two parties. Republicans due to events in the Nixon presidency ended up latching onto evangelical Christians, policies that favor the rich at the expense of the poor and middle class (usually spun as fiscally responsible), and racists (lots of overlap between evangelical Christians and racists, so that’s almost redundant). Over the years the economic policies have gotten a fresh coat of paint by way of the debunked trickle down economics theory which was used as a rallying cry to oppose any regulations such as environmental and pollution controls, or policies that favored the public at the expense of corporations because the “free market” would solve all problems. Democrats then embraced essentially the opposite of all of those positions, so wound up with socially progressive policies almost by default as reactions to the policies being pushed by the racists. This is for instance how Democrats ended up being pro-choice, as the Republicans had taken an anti-abortion stance at the urging of the extreme elements of their Christian demographic.
Ironically we’ve come full circle now with Republicans ending up with many policies by default in reaction to policies being pushed by Democrats. The Republicans of today are mostly defined not by any particular policy or goal other than their historical ones and a broad opposition to all policies pushed by Democrats. They general don’t have a stance on a policy until they hear what the Democrats position will be at which point they take up whatever the opposite of that is. This is part of how Republicans ended up as the party of the gun nut. The Democrats in the late 80s and early 90s attempted to pass some gun regulations which angered the largest gun manufacturer lobbying group, the NRA, who then spent the decades since then painting the Democrats as wanting to repeal the second amendment and disarm the American public. This in turn has led the Republicans to fully embrace removing and opposing any regulations on guns.
As the generations that grew up in a segregation era US are dying off though the Republicans are finding themselves with increasingly diminished support for their racist policies. Compounding that is that decades of free market policies and consistent push back and removal of regulations has demonstrated that the “free market will sort it out” claims are complete bullshit and just leads to things getting worse, not better, at least to anyone who has been remotely paying attention. As a result we’ve recently seen the Republicans pivot to embrace anti-diversity policies such as opposition to pro-LGBTQ policies (once again driven at least initially by their religious extremists) as well as policies designed to white-wash past racism and push a revisionist American history that paints the American civil war as primarily being motivated by disagreements about the structure of the US government rather than about opposition to ending slavery.
Forty years ago the Republicans were an even mix of racists and conservative economic policies. These days they’re mostly just the racists and a small minority of true believers in trickle down economics. Since they no longer have the numbers to win elections legitimately they’ve increasingly embraced various anti-democratic policies that allow them to retain control. Until recently, relatively “normal” tricks like gerrymandering and voter suppression in conjunction with a generally lukewarm support for Democrats (who have had their own issues of late, mostly around running profoundly milquetoast candidates) have allowed the minority of Republicans to maintain control. Now that even that no longer appears to be enough to keep them in power they’re increasingly turning to outright illegal activities like voter fraud and as we saw on the 6th, insurrection. While not every person who votes Republican takes part in or even supports such illegal activities, it’s quickly approaching the point at which they will need to confront the fact that those tactics have become a core part of their parties policies, so continued support for the party is tacit approval of such tactics. Many of them no doubt will continue to support the Republican party under a ends justifies the means stance, but hopefully the misguided ones who legitimately believe in trickle down economics can be convinced that such tactics are a bridge too far.
1819 News published the username to Copeland’s Reddit and Instagram accounts, writing that he posed “in various outfits, some more racy than others.” The blog also said that Copeland used the pseudonym “Brittini Blaire Summerlin” and posted pornography and advice on chemically transitioning.
So he wasn’t just cross-dressing, he was actively interested in transitioning, to the point that he was able to advise others. He also apparently did not have overt anti-LGBTQIA+ values, beyond being a member of the GOP.
Honestly, I’m sad for him, and for his family who apparently knew and loved him as he was. In a small town, you often don’t get to choose unless you choice involves moving away, and sometimes you just get trapped. I get the sense he was one of these: a good person, trapped not just in the wrong body but in the wrong town, where you’re either a church-goin’ Trumper or openly hated and ostracized.
I know there will be a lot of cheer about leopard face eating and karmic retribution, but I won’t be joining in this time. If he were full in he’d have made open anti-LGBTQIA+ statements instead of embracing it, albeit anonymously, in his online personas. No leopard here. I feel nothing but sorrow for this man and his family.
But the rest of the small minded fucks in his small minded town who were laughing and pointing? And the asshole who outed him? Now THAT’S a different story, and I hope their laughter becomes a curse to them.
Stop white washing this shithead. He was a horrible person who was perfectly fine persecuting others BUT THE FUCKING IMSTANT IT CAME BACK ON HIM HE OFFED HIMSELF.
Are you kidding me!? “He had to be part of the anti-LGBTQ party because of where he lived”. Fuck out of here with that nonsense. I deleted my longer comment, let me sum it to for you:
He didn’t have to live in Alabama
He didn’t have to be part of the anti-LGBTQ+ (or any) party
He didn’t have have to run for political office
He didn’t have to engage in crossdressing
If any of those conflict with each other, well; life is about choices. Anything less is cowardice.
Get a grip. I asked for a source that the person, who you all are celebrating the suicide of, was actually a terrible person or partook in the persecution of others.
That was the assertion that I was responding to, and none of that was mentioned in any source in this thread besides wild assumptions by people simply for being in the republican party in a small town.
Is it implausible that perhaps this person wished to hide within the GOP to escape its suspicions about their personal life? A Democrat mayor in a deeply Republican area would attract a lot of distrust and hostility simply by virtue of being a Democrat. A Republican mayor, not so much.
Is every trans person morally obligated to leave every institution that persecutes them? Even when to do so would scrutiny?
You heard it here folks, association by organization means you did the same thing some other shitheads did.
The secretaries for concentration camps?They gassed the Jews themselves, might as well have anyways, based on that logic.
Let’s take it even further, all Germans are bad because of what Hitler did to the Jews, after all, they are ASSOCIATED with the SS, being in the same country and culture and all, they all obviously have symmetrical views because all people really believe the same thing even in a party such as the GOP.
(Don’t you dare try to pretend those analogies flew over your head, work with me here)
Grow up, it’s not about him “being a hero”, nobody here is claiming that. The fact you came to that conclusion somehow on your own is evidence enough that you are celebrating his death. Have some respect, it seems pretty clear to me that he had second thoughts atleast some point in his life about his political decisions, had no way out, and when someone threatened to take even that away, made the last mistake you can ever make on your own accord. Please have some respect just as you would wish for yourself.
(Don’t you dare try to pretend those analogies flew over your head, work with me here)
lmao I loved this part.
You have a good point, I’m starting to think I was in a hateful mood yesterday. I still don’t think this person was a hero but it’s truly very sad that they had to hide this part of their life, and were so scared of the public’s opinion that they killed themselves.
When the time comes that you are on the other end of the blade, the people you despise will show you the exact same level of mercy you showed them. Problems do not have to be solved with death and violence, suffering and misery.
People like you are exactly what’s wrong with this country, that same kind of hatred is what enables mass shooters to commit the atrocities that they commit, the same kind of hatred that allows Israel to bomb innocent civilians to fruitlessly take out ten times less that number of hamas fighters.
You have some soul searching to do, and if you find that you still have the same anger and hatred in your heart, you will never find true happiness, satisfaction, it will never be enough. You will grasp for more and more, clawing at every little thing until it consumes you and all others around you.
Who am I exactly with? Do you even know? Or are you making assumptions because you’re an angry piece of shit redditor who walked to the wrong platform to spout the bullshit that you are?
more dumb unrelated shit about “nazi apologists”
Would you please shut the fuck up about the Nazis? The words I am reading from your post are legitimately the stupidest fucking things I’ve ever seen on the internet.
WAAAAHHH, ME ANGRY BECAUSE ME GOT CALLED OUT FOR BEING A BLOODTHIRSTY ANGRY PIECE OF SHIT HUMAN
You don’t even know who I’m with, stop kidding yourself. You seem to still have a lot of growing up to do. Stop being a fucking baby ffs. Ironically the fact that you see things in black and white makes you similar to the Nazis.
Sounds more like you lack the intelligence to hold your own in a conversation so you’re reaching for the “you’re a nazi” card.
You realize you’re basically calling everyone who lived in Germany from the late 30’s to mid 40’s a Nazi, right? You realize how smoothbrained that is.
If you can generalize a group of people and say “they’re all basically the same” then where does that end? Do you think all Italians are the same? What about Britons? Considering the fact that you’re basically saying that all Germans from that time period are Nazis just because they lived in a country run by the Nazi party, that sounds an awful lot like racism to me.
None of those words backs up your assertion, which was that there was “no plausible alternative” to being a GOP politician in Alabama. You can’t defend it because it’s complete nonsense.
Also, I didn’t celebrate his death, and I haven’t seen anyone else do so either…
Meh sometimes people just hate someone for not understanding them. And that’s enough. You don’t always need to pretend to have a good reason for hating someone, you just decide and then one day someone asks you why, like asking about babies crying in Africa, people often prefer not to have their beliefs challenged or broken to pieces by any kind of paradigm shift
In most rural areas of the South, it’s a racial divide between which are Republican or Democrat. Where I’m from, a white person being a Democrat would be, and are, actively threatened and hurt if they voice their opinion (by white Republicans).
I love what John Oliver said on his segment about I believe Lindsay Graham.
Paraphrasing, he could have helped usher in the change that would have made his lifestyle more acceptable and more inclusive. But he wanted power.
These people choose to be a Republican. They choose to associate with a party that is actively trying to eliminate the very people they are and the sad thing is that they think they are the exception. They think the party will accept them.
And the hard, harsh truth is that they are only accepted so long as it’s convenient. I think he knew this and that’s why he chose to end his life.
It’s sad that he felt he had to do that. But I’m not holding my breath for the GOP to say that they learned a lesson from it.
Being a mayor of a small town and being a US Senator or even House Rep are two very different things. It is very likely that, despite being Republican, he did nothing to further Republicanism with the power that he did have.
Most of the time, mayors really just do small town mayor shit like approving a tree to be cut down or asking the state for a road to be fixed. They’re not usually involved with politics in the way Lindsey fucking Graham is.
You can blame that on the US’s bipartisan system rather than the multiparty system it is supposed to be.
What other option would he have, the democrats? What if there are things that they did he didn’t agree with either? 3rd party is out the window because it would take minimum 2 elections to get their candidate in office.
Plenty of options. Didn’t have to be a shaman, didn’t have to live in a sheit tier state, didn’t have to run for public office, didn’t have to support the GOP. He went up to the leopard and screamed “eat my face”.
I mean, he was 62 years old you know, not like he could just turn his life around on a dime given the position he was in.
The dude was not hurting anyone. He clearly wanted to help operate the city, you have zero chance of winning with the democratic party in the vast majority of deep south states. Being a part of a party does not mean you believe in every single view that someone in your party holds, why do you think half the GOP is trying to get rid of Trump?
And would you stop with this leopard eating shit? I have read it here like 40,000 times. Suicide isn’t a joke, this is borderline not even a story about politics FFS. Save it for actually funny shit.
I am mentioning the church. He was a leader for a denomination of Christianity infamous for the degree of its anti-LGBT stances. Decades feeding the hate machine. And I bet you anything that today they those people who said a thousand good morning to him are happy that he killed himself.
The final unavoidable conclusion of Christianity is to kill its own.
What an uneducated comment. Baptists don’t inherently mean Anti-LGBTQ, it’s a common low-church denomination which mainly subscribes to the doctrine of grace by faith alone and is characterized by the belief in credo-baptism. It’s got nothing to do with LGBTQ politics.
Jesus Christ you are something else. Fine citation needed that BAPTIST are pro-LGBT. There, can you do that now or is there some other dodge you would like to try first?
But the rest of the small minded fucks in his small minded town who were laughing and pointing? And the asshole who outed him? Now THAT’S a different story, and I hope their laughter becomes a curse to them.
How many of those are also hiding their sexuality/gender just because of the same reasons that you mentioned?
Im sorry for the guy that shot himself, but he was part of the problem. It doesn’t matter the reason why someone is a church goer, Trump supporter, one less of them is always good.
What he wants is immaterial. This isn't a good sign for him and the BS contrarian "bad things said about or happening to are actually good for instert-right-winger-here" is delusional coping
I agree that I like him getting booed, but my preference with narcissists is to completely ignore them. They like attention, good or bad, but cannot stand being irrelevant. Since I can’t stand narcissists, I make them irrelevant to my life.
Wow. I did not know about that. I understand that 1984 was a major contribution to society, but I have trouble reading because it’s so depressing. I even tried to watch the movie, but couldn’t pay attention for long.
We have Project 2025 out there literally announcing the end of democracy should a republican president be voted in. Their plan is to enact Schedule F which allows the prez to kick people from the senate and place his own chosen people there and to allow the prez to essentially take over the whole executive branch of the government.
LIKE GODDAMMIT, THERE’S A DICTATORSHIP UNDER CONSTRUCTION! WHY ISN’T THIS EVEN NEWSWORTHY? WHY DOES THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA SOLELY FOCUS ON THE CLIMATE ASPECT ON PROJECT 2025? IT’S LITERALLY THE PLAN TO END DEMOCRACY! AND OF COURSE LGBTQIA+ PEOPLE!
Yeah I was thinking “what in the tinfoil hat is this guy rambling about”… So I looked it up and holy fuck it is legit the Republicans plan for thier next administration.
Here’s a PBS article for anyone that wants to read some info on it:
How can the Republican Party infiltrate itself. They’re already members of them self. Therefore they cannot infiltrate themselves because they’re already part of themselves.
The tea party was complete AstroTurf from the start. Run by well-known Republicans for republicans.
For the last 20 years Fox News and conservative media have been demonizing Democrats as anti-American and disloyal and trying to actively intentionally destroy America. They also are given this propaganda that they’re the real Americans and the only thing left to save the world, so that mindset gives them permission to end democracy to save their way of life.
Delusional. And then I know some of them have just always been republican so they keep voting that way regardless. Like, damn, wake up to the bullshit around you. This isn’t a matter of differing ideologies anymore - this is a matter of fighting for keeping the right to vote about those differing ideologies.
Hello viewers, before we sign off I’d like to remind you that you are the superior human even though you are oppressed and can’t get anything you deserve, and that those other people are idiotic soft weaklings just preparing to take over and destroy us all!
You kick out the federalist that do things like, investigate overturning elections, and suddenly the midterms are all republican wins.
From there, you have someone who can get power passed to change things like presidential term limits. Now you have a king or an emperor with a bunch of yes men backing him up in decisions. Eventually, they can institute whatever policies they want and force states, by force, to enact what they want with military power and courts who rule in their favor.
Oh, but there are people in the military who will stand up and do what’s right? Well, they will be branded as wackos and enemies of the state who are speaking ill of the totally “legit” election. So they are put in front of a firing squad and all that’s left are those who already believe in Der Fuhrer.
It’s a complete shit show in the making and fucking frightening what they could do with disinformation and no checks.
You're definitely right. I spent a good minute going through the guide but the most nefarious stuff was gaining complete control of the executive branch. This guide is like a first step for a first term. Well brb guys, going to figure how to take over the government with only the executive branch.
Is the army part of the executive? If yes, then… idk, build a shelter, leave, arm yourself or just accept your new overlords.
Theoretically a president could call the army to throw out dissidents. In practice… i think the army is right-leaning but i don’t think that they would simply follow through. It depends.
Per section 4 DOD I should be getting some brownie point by providing more goodies to each branch even the space force. I would also be making adjustments to the culture to make sure there's no woke people. Personal army wise I think my best bet will be to use ice since they fall under Homeland security. There was a note somewhere about removing the restrictions of where they can operate.
Don’t lie or spread misinformation. The language says they would find ways to BYPASS the senate in some circumstances. Still terrible but disinformation will cause people to not believe the legitimate warnings.
You are correct. Page 168 has the "An Aggressive Approach to Senate-Confirmed Leadership Positions" section, laying out how to bypass senate confirmed positions. Still nothing about kicking members of Congress.
Holy fuck. What. I read through the articles on this and they don’t touch on much of what it actually says. Most of it is just quotes. But the guardian has this bit about them dismantling the EPA and, among other things, making it illegal for the EPA to raise emission restrictions.
Jesus fuck, I’m so glad someone else is panicking about their plans. Not too long ago, I finally realized the whole idea of these shitty laws being enacted in red states is a strategy to chase lefties out so that they control enough states to start a constitutional convention.
Here’s the website for a conservative group that pushes for it.
Idk how everyone seems to miss it - it’s why Republicans have been angling for such extreme gerrymandering since 2010 and want to dominate state legislatures so much
There’s no need for formal conspiracies when all of these economic and political elites share the same ideology, which they learned from their environment growing up in similar positions of privilege within the dominant culture.
That book they’re selling is like a modern “Mein Kampf.” It’s very interesting because I know quite a few moderate conservatives who wouldn’t ever support the policy proposed in this book, but they are still going to vote red because they believe it will fix the economy.
This is the consequence of the hatred that transphobes, garden variety conservatives and TERFs alike, have stoked. And the narrative that the media has gleefully ran with.
Being visibly trans or gender-non-conforming nowadays is genuinely scary in a way I think a lot of people don't fully understand. And of course when femininity is being policed, women of colour tend to suffer too, even if they are cisgender.
The instigators responsible will keep getting away with it. They’re very careful to use the right dog whistles and key words to avoid getting deplatformed and they still cause their followers to act like this.
Racism, Misogyny and transphobia have always come from a similar place and build off of each other. They share the same narratives and the same desire for ostracization and oppression. Bigots will always ally with other bigots, as this hatred is not rational and only someone with similarly irrational hate could support you. Dig enough in bigoted communities and you are certain to find all different kinds of hatred.
That’s why TERF communities are infested with homophobia, misogyny, racism, antisemitism and Islamophobia. Over time the concentration of white supremacy and nazism has grown exponentially in terf communities. Nazis share many of the same goals and many of the same conspiracies that terfs do. And prominent terfs like Kelly Jay Keen openly ally with Christian white nationalists around the world.
I’d argue that the TERF perspective is fundamentally anti-male rather than (or maybe in addition to) misogynistic.
The specific position TERFs hold that makes them TERFs is that you cannot become a woman if you weren’t born one and that women should be granted certain special protections and spaces of their own, kept free from men.
That’s why TERFs ALWAYS frame trans issues in the form of men dressing up as women to infiltrate women’s spaces and women’s services. They could give a shit about trans men, it’s all trans women because trans women are the ones using things that in their eyes should be the sole provenance of “real” women.
They’ve also been stoking the “Black women look trans” narrative for a while, especially focused on Michelle Obama. I listen to Knowldge Fight so I’ve heard so many disgusting Alex Jones clips of him calling her Mike.
The Davis School District initially removed the Bible from school libraries after a review determined it did include “vulgar” content. But the school board unanimously reversed its decision after a review by an appeal committee determined the text has " significant, serious value for minors which outweighs the violent or vulgar content it contains," the AP reported.
Sort of, but also, Christianity is a death cult that enables child molesters and promotes hate, so there is not much room for subtly. It is also profoundly lacking in any basis of reality and frankly teaches deranged ideas that harm children’s ability to make rational judgments about reality.
No, I’m done with this stupid conversation and closer to believing Lemmy is a cesspool echo chamber than before it started. You people are fucking idiots that detract from reasonable discourse and progress on the left.
And by the way, I’m far from conservative, I hate Trump and all the other extremist authoritarian assholes, and I’m starting to realize you lot are almost as stupid as the MAGA fascists.
I don’t know what you want from other people. You’re not obligated to argue with people on the internet, but you started a disagreement that you weren’t willing to back up. Then you baseslessly called everyone idiots and a danger to the left before storming off. Maybe when you have more distance you can learn some lessons. Maybe you can understand where they’re coming from. Maybe you can better articulate what they did to harm the discourse. At the very least, it would be wise to learn to not pick fights you don’t want to actually participate in, for your sake and everyone else’s.
Dude just shut the fuck up and leave Lemmy then. Clearly you aren’t interested in any actual conversation, so why the fuck would we want you here to begin with? Do us the favor of walking away.
It’s not a broad generalization at all. It’s a widespread pattern of hypocritical and contradictory conservative outrage, statements, and laws.
“I should be able to teach kids about the Bible in school, but you can’t teach them about Yoga”
“we can’t have vulgar language, oh unless it’s from our religious book”
“I can’t make a cake for you because you’re gay and that’s against my religion. What do you mean you won’t make a Christian cake? That’s religious discrimination!”
“Happy holidays!??! Happy holidays??! You monster, how dare you wage war on Christmas! We have religious liberty in this country! What do you mean that protects other religions? There’s only one God and one religion!”
“It’s totally fine that the polling places in large democratic areas have hours long waits so long as my polling places are quick and easy”
“it’s totally fine that a county with 10,000 people has the same number of ballot drop boxes as a country with 3,000,000 people”
“marriage is between a man and woman … and may include 17 divorces; they gays can’t have it”
“we need to teach kids (i.e., indoctrinate them in the ways of) Jesus not this woke (black history, trans, etc)”
“let’s let white kids off with a slap on the wrist while we throw a black kid in jail for smoking a plant”
“I can’t believe a president could have such a scandal in the white house as to have had an affair with an assistant! We need to impeach! No, I don’t think extorting an ally for information about an opponent is worthy of an impeachment! Trying to overthrow a legitimate presidental victor with a procedural trick? Nah that’s not worth an impeachment either! Oh but hey, this Biden guy’s son who lost one of his parents and a sibling in a car crash, that lost his brother to cancer, that has a drug problem, called his dad while he was in business meetings to show off… so you know his dad definitely was up to something! We’ve got to impeach him over that! What do you mean that was before he was even president and that’s completely unprecedented?”
“We should totally lock her up for those emails! What do you mean the guy screaming that’s son and law did the exact same thing?”
“We’re sorry we can’t appoint a supreme court justice just before the election! Psych! We totally can if it’s nominated by OUR president!”
"We need law and order in this country! What do you mean Trump broke the law? Nah, I’m not hearing it; this is clearly a partisan witch hunt and the majority conservative staff of the FBI is out to get conservatives! Oh but we’ll DEFINITELY weaponize the federal government and go after our political rivals full steam if we get the presidency in 2024"
“I believe abortion is amoral, that’s why I hid the fact that my ex/current lovers have had one”
“I believe homosexuality is amoral, that’s why I am one in the closet”
“we’re going to be the party of health care, but don’t watch as we strip you of your federal protections for your health care”
“we’re the party of the little man, but don’t watch as we cut taxes for the rich (and you but make sure that expires under the next term (probably while the Democrats are in power)”
“the national debt is an outage! Oh let’s spend as much as Obama did in half the time! Oh Biden is in power again, spending is out of control!”
“the problem isn’t guns it’s mental health, but we’re not going to do anything about that either! Must be because the kids aren’t in church, the gays, video games, or hey look over there, a squirrel!”
“climate change? Nah. It’s not real. Okay maybe it is, but it doesn’t matter because look at China! Oh we could make a dent and get the ball rolling? Well, it’s too late anyways, we should’ve been building nuclear plants! What do you mean I just made that up? Clearly I’ve been trying to solve this via nuclear the whole time, and it’s not another dog whistle! Oh and btw all of my top presidential candidates say they don’t believe in man made climate change! But yeah, totally serious about this issue!!”
… and that’s just off the top of my head. If you’re a conservative, wake up, your party is a mess.
I don’t need to put any words into your mouth, your reply to the comment was to ignore all the real, objectively true examples and just claim that despite the fact that they’re the actions of real conservative policy makers, that they somehow have nothing to do with real conservative policy
You ignore the faults of real world conservatism, holding up this idealistic version of conservatism you have in your head as “real” conservatism. Ill bet you also hold that conservatism has nothing to do with anti-LGBT+, despite their policy makers constantly making anti-LGBT+ policy decisions
And you’re reinforcing mine by continuing to not actually address any of the actual points.
Pointing out actual, provable examples of selective enforcement by conservatives isn’t an “echo chamber” it’s discussing real world politics
Ultimately it looks from my perspective like you’re falling into the classic trap of just assuming that when a lot of people disagree with you, that they’re just mindlessly repeating talking points - rather than ever considering that your own view might be skewed. Further reinforced by the fact that you steadfastly refuse to actually talk about the issue, and instead just keep deflecting and crying “ECHO CHAMBER”.
And no, I have no idea who you are, why should I care though? This is a discussion about conservative politics, not you or your feelings.
So if you agree that what’s being said is factual, then what exactly is the concern here regarding “echo chambers”?
A echo chamber is dangerous when people are spreading misinformation, a group of people acknowledging a very real negative aspect of a major political party is in no way “echo chamber” type behavior.
Now if we were saying “all conservative voters and politicians are Nazis”, id agree with you that caution should be given about echo chambers, but cautioning about echo chambers when objective facts are being discussed comes across much more as you trying to deflect away from facts you don’t like being discussed.
Would it help you if we also talked some trash about democrats?
Biden is too old for office
Most elected democrats are hypocrites, at least to some extent
Virtually every politician, including the left leaning ones, in the US are corrupt to som extent, and usually to a severe degree
There? Are you satisfied that we’re not an echo chamber?
Not denying that Biden is very old and that any vote for him carries a material probability that it also elects the VP for president, the vast majority of politicians are very old in the USA
The concern is that you said “conservatives”, not “what’s popular amongst conservative politicians”, or “what’s popular amongst conservative media”, or even “most”. You just said conservatives, that is villifying all people by nature of a describing themselves by a very broad term(or even someone else ascribing it to them). Their initial complaint was generalization and you attacked them with evidence of it being true for some conservatives.
Every person who votes conservative is guilty of the behavior I describe because - As pointed out above - they vote in the politicians who do these things
You can’t vote a politician into power and then not take responsibility for their actions
Every person who votes conservative is guilty of the behavior I describe because - As pointed out above - they vote in the politicians who do these things
Then essentially every American who votes is guilty of drone bombing civilians because presidents from Republicans and Democrats did it.
Except that I that example, as you say - they have no actual choice in the matter because as you say it doesn’t matter who they vote for. That being said, I think we all do bear some small share of the responsibility for the atrocities our country has committed, if only because we benefit from them - but that’s a whole other debate.
My point is that every conservative has a very easy choice each election - support the conservative party, or oppose them. If they choose the former, that’s their right, but theyre responsible for having made that decision, and don’t get to pretend that all the terrible shit the GOP is doing, all the way up to it’s ongoing attempts to subvert the election process and undermine the justice system, is somehow not their responsibility, despite voting for it.
And in the interest of fairness, the same goes for the Dems. I bare some sense of responsibility for Biden’s union busting of the railworkers strike last year for having voted for him. That’s how it works. But I think any rational person looking at the two parties from a utilitarian standpoint of ethics can see pretty easily that the evils of the GOP vastly outweighs that of the Democratic party
Except that I that example, as you say - they have no actual choice in the matter because as you say it doesn’t matter who they vote for.
No you can vote for the non-evil, like I do. But I understand that it is a mature decision to vote who you see as the lesser evil with a chance.
That being said, I think we all do bear some small share of the responsibility for the atrocities our country has committed, if only because we benefit from them
No, not at all? If I am one of two plumbers in a town and someone randomly kills the other plumber I profit from that, but I have 0 responsibility for the murder.
the GOP is doing, all the way up to it’s ongoing attempts to subvert the election process and undermine the justice system, is somehow not their responsibility, despite voting for it.
There is some responsibility, but not exactly the same as if you were a perpetrator yourself.
But I think any rational person looking at the two parties from a utilitarian standpoint of ethics can see pretty easily that the evils of the GOP vastly outweighs that of the Democratic party
Most people are not utilitarian, or at least I hope they aren’t.
But I understand that it is a mature decision to vote who you see as the lesser evil with a chance.
Idk if I’m having a stroke, or you are - but this sentence makes no sense to me - though I think I can guess at your point from context, and I broadly agree - at least up until the point that you claim that voting for the “lesser evil” exonerates you of any responsibility for the actions of the party you voted for.
No, not at all? If I am one of two plumbers in a town and someone randomly kills the other plumber I profit from that, but I have 0 responsibility for the murder
Except in that example, you didn’t help give power to the murderer, whereas for the actions of our government, we do.
There is some responsibility, but not exactly the same as if you were a perpetrator yourself.
Not exactly the same, no - I agree. I the same way that if you came across an ongoing hate crime on the street and cheered on the perpetrator you wouldn’t bear the same responsibility as the actual perpetrator, but it still makes you evil in my opinion.
Most people are not utilitarian, or at least I hope they aren’t.
I disagree, I think most people’s natural approach to ethics (when they bother with it at all) is to compare the net harm vs the net good of the action their trying to weigh. That’s literally how we teach children the difference between right and wrong - we ask them to consider the consequences of their actions, and whether those consequences are good or bad).
Either way - I think it’s clear you’re not changing your mind on this, and I’m just repeating myself, so unless you have some novel point to raise I’m done arguing about it. Feel free to continue to distance your decisions with their consequences for others if you prefer (lord knows most people do, unless those consequences are bad for themselves)
No dude, fuck you and your weasel words and moving goalpost. You made a shit comment and got proven wrong. Now’s the time to gracefully take the L; anything else just makes you look like a jackass.
Lol, you prove my point more eloquently than I could have on my own. Well done, and keep getting mad at strangers online it’s probably the best part of your life.
I’ll be honest, the point was less for him and more for lurkers, that might not pay as much attention and might benefit from an outline. I gave up on changing the mind of the person I’m replying to on the internet a long time ago (if it happens great!) … but I want to challenge and cut through the “noise” for the casual observer.
That’s the only single reason I debunk conservatives with some of their tactics thrown back at them. In a forum, I’m pretty much am blocked by nearly every conservatives there.
He didn’t say that, he criticized generalizing conservatives. I know conservatives who don’t care to block books from school libraries, or block trans students from going to bathrooms in their identified gender- or most of the other “culture war” arguments.
Yes but until they start actively opposing those policies and demanding their politicians do the same, they are still complicit with these policies as their votes are what enable them. Whether or not they personally believe these things is entirely irrelevant. All that matters are the actions and policies, and every conservative voter is this complicit.
Unfortunately people have different priorities than you or I, I guarantee a politician you have voted for has done something you oppose, and you may have still supported them. That’s because you care more about their other policies.
Yes but I don’t have to respect those opinions enough to validate them by acknowledging them. If those are your “opinions” then you’re a monster and you can fuck off. Don’t expect any respect from me; we need less kid gloves and more people calling out assholes in the world.
Being very wrong doesn’t make someone evil. If someone genuinely believes something like that and isn’t just saying it be edgy, I’d try to convince them out of it. Just like a flat earther, they believe something that I believe is very wrong.
I never signed up to be the social caretaker of the world. If they’re adults, I assume they’ve had plenty of opportunity to learn. I’ve devoted way to much of my life already to trying to educate the vile sort of people that vote conservative, I’m fucking done with it. They can go get the kid gloves treatment from their imaginary “tolerant left,” this fucking leftist is done with them.
And before you say “but how will things ever change if we don’t educate them?”:
First, again that’s not my job. But more importantly, education is only *one" weapon of change, not the only in our arsenal. We’ve forgotten how powerful rightly-applied shame can be.
I fricking hate how we’re expected to gently explain in soothing voices and educate and be understanding of people who damn well want us dead and who wouldn’t even extend someone on the left the courtesy of even pissing on them if they were on fire. We’re supposed to extend them every grace and courtesy while they’re not expected to do the same to us.
Phillando Castile. All for gun rights until a black man is shot while legally owning a gun. One could run down the list of black people (and children) who have been murdered by the police because they “thought there was a gun”. Guns are legal and they’re quite vocal about supporting the right to bear arms (but only if you look white).
Jan 6. All for upholding law and order and obeying the police until they don’t get what they want. They lied about the cities in this country being destroyed during the Floyd uprisings as if America was gone.
All of the anti-trans laws passed are to “protect children” and yet they have not gone after any of the abuse scandals in churches or law enforcement.
Build the wall. Enforced only against black and brown people at the southern border.
How about holding the supreme court seat for a year?
We could continue but I’ll just boil it down with a pithy quote: there are those who the law must protect but does not bind and there are those that the law must bind but not protect. That is the conservative idea. Go read the only moral abortion is my abortion with that statement in mind and it’ll make sense.
I haven’t heard that case, can you show some examples of “conservative” outrage?
And I feel like it’s probably not race related seeing as conservatives were some of the first people to criticize the police in the Brenna Taylor case(a post about her boyfriends trial is still the top post on r/progun). Some conservatives also defended Andrew Coffee IV.
Jan 6. All for upholding law and order and obeying the police until they don’t get what they want.
From their perspective(by the way me explaining someone’s perspective doesn’t mean I agree with it at all like most of the people on this site seem to think!!!) their is a coup happening by the elites so they are going in to uphold the law and put in the rightfully elected(again in their mind) president.
All of the anti-trans laws passed are to “protect children” and yet they have not gone after any of the abuse scandals in churches or law enforcement.
Can you site any they defended recently?
Build the wall. Enforced only against black and brown people at the southern border.
I don’t see how that’s hypocritical.
How about holding the supreme court seat for a year?
I’d argue it does, conservative lawmaking has consistently operated with a distinct understanding (and execution) that shows “this applies to them not us.” I’d love for conservative law makers to do what they say and say what they mean. However, they won’t and thus can’t build a coalition that gets them elected by being honest about their policy goals.
Conservative law making in the US has become at its core “outrage politics” (and that depends on selectively enforcing ideals, policies, and laws/antagonizing part of the population). I don’t make generalizations lightly, but this is the core and fundamental piece holding the Republican party together, and it’s an awful state of affairs.
This can be further demonstrated by Vivek Ramaswamy climbing in the polls despite, as Chris Christie put it, “sounding like ChatGPT.”
K. When you figure out what discourse you want to have come back without an empty argument.
You’ve just proven everyone else’s point that wrote you off. You’ve made no supportive arguments for your position and resorted to an opaque moral high ground where everyone else is an idiot.
Bruh, you are the literal embodiment of the issue plaguing the USA in this historical period: you say you are ready to have a discussion and then, once somebody engages you with actual facts in his hands, you attack your interlocutor with the most vapid point without replying to his considerations.
Furthermore I’ve been taught that there are two possible sides when tackling a problem: you can either be part of the problem or part of its solution.
As far as I see nowadays republicans are ALL part of a problem called “political extremism”. If you vote for the party which is presenting an autocrat and a crybaby as it’s frontrunner for the past and upcoming elections you don’t get to be offended when someone calls you out for that. If you are not voting democrat you are actively choosing to be ruled by a tiny minority which sees it’s religion as the only viable solution to all the (made up) problems they see in the modern world. Should you vote democrat, on the other hand, the worst which may happen is that you’ll loose some purchasing power when the world has been facing a pandemic and a regional war at the gates of Europe.
If your choice is to actively vote for the first option I’ve news from you: you are an enemy of the people and of democracy, don’t be surprised when people will treat you as such in your future interactions with tem
Why vote democrat though? Supposedly the US does have or allow other political parties to be formed. If they can organize themselves, diversifying the local state political pool should not be a problem at least.
Excellent summary. Maybe add:“That slut next door should not have an abortion, she should have kept her legs closed. My daughter‘s abortion? That‘s totally different, it would have ruined her career“
Well, church leaders have been reporting that the sermon on the mount (or whatever) is being criticized as woke. Maybe there’s something to this idea after all.
We all knew they were gonna figure out a way that the law doesn’t apply to them and the stuff they like. That’s like the fundamental constant of conservatives, it’s different when we do it because we’re not those people.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” –Francis M. Wilhoit
Trump pushed the big lie that the election was stolen. Trump lost in the courts^[1] including the Supreme Court.^[2] Then he tried to pressure state officials.^[3] He tried to pressure Pence.^[4]
So what does Trump do after exhausting all nonviolent methods of overturning the election? He turns to his supporters and lights them up making inflammatory statements such as;
We are going to fight for the survival of the nation.
Now is not the time to retreat, its to fight harder.
We will never give in, never back down, never surrender.
We will fight like hell.
You have to get your people to fight.
He primed them for weeks.
State officials had started getting death threats weeks before the attempted insurrection following the general election.^[5] Trump saw first hand what violence was being created as his supporters rioted and vandalized black churches in Washington back in December.^[6]
Trump didn’t stop his incitement after the initial violence, he got more specific. He told his supporters how, when, and where. He gave them 18 days notice inviting them to the rally telling them to be there, that it will be wild.^[7] And on the day of the insurrection Trump told his supporters to march on the Capitol and fight like hell.
Following the riot Trump continued to promote the big lie that had incited the insurrection. After the mob was dispersed, Trump praised and sympathized with the mob in a video he released, claiming once again that the election had been stolen.^[8] Then he praised the insurrection in a tweet after the mob had been dispersed. He told his mob to remember Jan. 6 forever. He said that he loved the insurrectionists and that the violent mob were special people.
My “favorite” but was when he heard that some of them had weapons that were denied access, and he angrily told his staff to let the weapons into the capital, because they weren’t coming to hurt him.
I saw this all the time on reddit. Some people seem to have the need to be involved in conversations but don’t have anything worthwhile, intelligent, or even just interesting or entertaining to say. They instead tend to pick an aspect of a comment, often take it out of context, then shit all over it but not in a way that’s constructive, helpful, or insightful whatsoever. They often don’t seem to really even have a point other than telling you you’re wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s what we’re seeing here.
I suggest at most calling them out on their behavior but otherwise just not engaging. They’re basically trolls, even if they don’t realize it themselves, so it’s not worth the trouble and there’s no way to ‘win’.
In this sense they absolutely are. No different than Iraqis, Afghans, Panamanians, Vietnamese… etc.
In every other way, no - Putin can end this war any damn time he feels like. But that doesn’t mean the US military-industrial complex isn’t going to milk this for all it’s worth.
Nah, you just framed the Russians as victims equivalent to the Palestinians and now you just did a 180 to pretend you meant to frame Russia as the aggressor when you actually didn’t. You know we can read your text, right?
Killing the palestinians (and russians) don’t matter to them it’s just another funnel from our effort into their pockets.
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt with you shills, is it?
It’s not gonna work here, though. For all that Lemmy sucks ass, at least the users have a modicum of common sense. Good luck overcoming that. Dasvidaniya
To be fair, they were talking about war profiteering, not genocide. We are definitely happy with Ukraine being at war with Russia as far as war profiteering goes. And as much as Putin sucks, and any country may suck, it doesn’t mean their citizens should be killed endlessly. The people there are still human, even if their leaders are terrible. But rather than doing something to try and stop the war, the US would rather use it to funnel money to our arms dealers. Which is a problem, even if the enemy is bad, killing all the Russians should never be the goal. Stopping the war should.
I am not implying that at all obviously. No one is. In fact I don’t know a single pro-Ukraine person who can’t differentiate between Putin’s regime and the Russian people.
Ah, got you. Thanks for clarification. Yes, I agree. Gawd almighty absolutely forbids using our own tax dollars for such ungodly things like feeding the hungry, healing the sick, clothing the naked or looking out for prisoners.
It’s sort of like a “Bruce Wayne v. Court of Owls” situation. Bruce Wayne has his philanthropy actively countered by a group that’s basically the Illuminati, this “Court of Owls” because, I’m guessing there’s an Eldritch horror that slumbers so long as Gotham suffers, but would awaken if the rich actually did anything to help the poor.
EDIT: Okay, so I found out this “Court of Owls” not only doesn’t care about the poor, they don’t care about the world in general. They serve an evil Bat-God named Barbatos who wants to use Bruce Wayne as a conduit to emerge in the world.
Bruce Wayne would definitely make it into Murica heaven. Superman might make it into Jesus heaven (which I would assume would be loving yourself, if the Kingdom of heaven is actually within us, which it is, in my experience).
Yes but you shouldn’t bring up hypocrisy here. Stopping killing now is worthwhile regardless of what various countries have done years and decades ago.
That’s generally good advice, but on a broad level it’s completely impossible. There’s no way that everyone can know all of history. We all have to learn little parts at different times in our lives, according to our own priorities and values. Also, quite obviously, forgetting the past does not always lead to repeats.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets at Israeli, if it didn’t have iron dome they’d have to prevent Gaza from firing the missiles, which means bombing Hamas and the civilians they hide behind
Unfortunately, until we get money out of politics, voting doesn’t really matter.
The ruling class can just funnel more money to the opposing side to get them elected. They’ve already got it down to a science so they don’t spend more than they need to.
They haven’t even scratched the surface of how much money they can spend to control elections. It’s all just the bare-minimum to them, like maximizing profit.
Taxes aren’t what’s stopping us from having health care. We already spend more taxes on health care per capita than countries with single payer health care. (Not that changes that we could be using our taxes better, but the myth that we would spend more taxes to get single payer needs to be dispelled.)
The claim doesn’t seem right. We do spend far more on healthcare than other nations overall and our taxed spending on healthcare seems comparable to other rich nations like Japan, though that’s only a fraction of our total spending - most is private cost. Quick back of napkin math says taxes directly spend ~4k a year/capita on healthcare expenses, mostly Medicare, and single-payer systems tend to cost about ~6k total. Data is a little old. Correct me if I’m reading wrong.
Hold on. I am in complete agreement that US healthcare spending is batshit crazy. I was just doubtful that our TAXED healthcare spending was more than other countries with single payer. All our spending is private.
Some of the mandatory budget and discretionary non-defense budget can be directly or indirectly linked to military purposes, but regardless, the majority of the budget is social programs.
i have some idea. do I know where every cent goes? no. the government, most governments, are these giant ponderous masses of interwoven bureaucracy, striving to complete many diverse goals. the various goals are often at odds with each other.
Nope. It’s not. That money they hand Israel? Completely sucked out of their thumb - I literally use the massive handouts the US gives Israel as a way to debunk the “but printing money causes inflation!” crowd.
Btw, that is an actual example of a handout - ie, not the (alleged) “handouts” right-wing pundits start whining about whenever the issue of social services come up.
Of course, they could just as easily spend all that invented money to give you healthcare - but they won’t… that’s not how class warfare works.
Nope. Your taxes doesn’t even pay for the US military - it’s all just money they invent. Your taxes are spent by the state you live in - roads, hospitals… that kind of stuff.
When it comes to their precious military - and their precious neocolonialist shitfuckery they call “foreign policy” - they don’t rely on you.
ntg but can you point me in the direction of your sources for that? I’m kind of lazy and google/my google fu sucks for me recently. no big prob if you can’t though
Not “completely”. They spend into a deficit every year, which is partially financed with tax and partially financed with debt obligations. It’s more that any spending is paid for 50% tax and 50% “indirect inflation tax” later, or whatever the exact numbers are (I stopped keeping track).
One time, I put my hand out to stop a kid from running into the street.
Most people were like “Woah that kid almost died.” But one Karen looking woman had a “How dare you touch that child” look.
I’m not going to stop saving kids who run into the street. But it did make me question when to involve myself or not. And I can see a lot of people hesitating because some fuckface has something stupid to say.
You inferred one look from a stranger experiencing a traumatic event, that apparently wasn’t reinforced by conversation with her after the fact!? I don’t think you should modify anything about your instincts or responses…
Uh, no? No one’s analyzing here! I basically told them to trust their instincts, rather than defer to the minority opinion of “all men are pedophiles” (based on their interpretation of the Karen’s response). Same advice I would give male lifeguards who would hesitate in possibly saving a life because maybe one person would be hyper-sensitive to any contact. Do what’s good and true and right immediately, and deal with haters later…
So no, I will assess every situation. I ain’t touching a woman who’s down.
Thank the assholes of the world for that… And also the coworker who flirted with me, and when I didn’t flirt with her, she accused me of sexual harassment and I got fired - 30 years ago.
The shit is real, (shitty) women have made the bed, they can lie in it.
Don’t you know? Every woman who is middle aged and doesn’t give an appreciating look all the time I want is a misandrist Karen. And if someone dies, it’s her and other women’s fault.
Source for accusations against men leading to quantifiably worse outcomes than accusations against women or NB people? I haven’t seen the research that backs up your assertion.
Yep. People have strange selective views on things.
I was standing with the car at the crossing where it enters the main road. A kid came racing down the bike path from the local primary school on his scooter and tried to get around my car without wasting speed, i.e. slowing down. Physics said: “NO” in no uncertain terms, and the kid kissed the road in front of my car. I got out to help, but he already got up, probably more annoyed about loosing speed than anything else, answered negative on my inquiry if he was hurt or needed help, and was off like lighting.
Two days later, the police was at my door, responding to a neighbors claim that I had run over a kid that day…
I could imagine that neighbour just heard some noise, looked outside, and then just concluded, you must’ve hit that child, from what the aftermath looked like…
Exactly. As much as I believe in being a good person and trying to stop others from coming to harm, there is now a not-nonsignificant chance that I end up being prosecuted for something as a result of stepping in to attempt to save a life. It deincentivizes such activities.
A man stopped my son with his hand from crossing at the signal because a car didn’t see him and could have mowed him down. I think a lot about how that could have gone badly if the man had second guessed himself for even a moment. Legally and socially, we need to be on the side of anyone who makes a split second decision to help in a crisis.
In case anyone still has misconceptions about the famous case that came before. McDonald’s spun public opinion, but she had a legitimate case. youtu.be/Q9DXSCpcz9E
I’m not going to watch the video since the case was covered in both my business law and ethics courses, but absolutely do not look up the images of her injury.
Beat me to it. I remember as a teenager hearing adults laugh about this, “how could you not know coffee is hot?? Hahaha”. Holy shit the McDonalds PR really fucked that lady over. It wasn’t until at least a decade later that I learned the reality of the situation and how horrific her burns were.
it also made it onto Seinfeld, it was also pushed by Republicans and their mouthpieces (Fox) that the country ia going to hell everyone can sue for anything bla bla bla, typical moral panic stuff.
that shit was so widespread I heard about the anyone can sue rhetoric about the USA as a kid, and I am from Slovakia
Well the “anyone can sue” is very much a real thing. But you can also counter-sue to recover “reasonable legal fees” (court costs, attorney fees) etc. if it’s found to be exceptionally egregious and litigious.
But most of the cases you hear about are similar to the Maccas one where there are giant details left out of the public narrative.
What I don’t understand is how she was appealed down to $480K, but the family in FL got $800K for not warning that the nuggets were fresh out of the fryer. The former was way, way, worse.
Just want to add that this wasn’t just McDonald’s spinning it for their own purposes, it was part of a larger effort of tort reform - spreading the conception that people are suing for everything, even hot coffee hur dur, so that the public would support things like caps on pain and suffering damages and punitive damages. Corporations wanted more leeway to maximize profits(the reason McDonald’s coffee was so hot was because they could get more coffee out of the beans that way), even if it hurt people, and the public jumped right on board. This was part of the same strategy as denigrating plaintiffs attorneys as “ambulance chasers” and the like. It got to the point that even when people were harmed, they still wouldn’t sue because they didn’t want to be lumped in with “those entitled people suing over everything”. It became a point of pride to get fucked over by corporations and to do nothing about it. Really disgusting how easily the public was manipulated by all that.
We need to see some pain in the economy. We need to remind people that they work for the employer, not the other way around... There's been a systemic change where the employees feel that the employer is extremely lucky to have them, as opposed to the other way around.
So said every vicious aristocrat throughout history.
Whether owner of slaves, serfs or workers - elites always believe it's their right to inflict harm on others.
“Middle management” as a concept is simply “someone gives you directives and you give someone else directives” and that is literally as old as society itself.
The Mayans didn’t build highways through a fucking jungle without middle management, and they were most definitely not “industrialized.”
Also the whole “middle management bad” meme is pants on head stupid. Almost as stupid as your interest in going back to subsistence farming.
I never implied a necessary return to subsistence farming. I said that hierarchy is not necessary for society to exist, but you continue to equate the two.
Mayans didn’t build highways, because the technology and the necessity were not present. But they did build roads. And bridges. And pressurized aqueducts. And they did it without an “Assistant Director of Construction.”
Y’know. Infrastructure. With limited hierarchy.
Saying that human civilization and the necessary infrastructure to support it is impossible without traditional corporate hierarchy isn’t just wrong, it’s fucking propaganda. And it’s propaganda designed specifically to depress the value of labor.
My dude, if you can only imagine one system of social organization as being correct or successful, I don’t think it’s my intellect you need to concern yourself with.
But in all seriousness, think of strikes and the inherent power of labor.
How come management never strikes?
When workers strike and there are no workers in the building, the day comes to a screeching halt and NOTHING happens.
If there are no managers in the building, business continues as usual. Because it happens all of the fucking time. That’s why your manager can go on vacation for weeks at a time and nobody gives a shit, but you’re lucky if you get 5 days in a whole calendar year.
We need to remind people that they work for the employer, not the other way around
Oh and I was sitting here thinking, that employers and employees share a mutually profitable relationship. Employees provide services to employers and employers provide financial gains for their employees.
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