Lemmyshitpost community closed until further notice

Hello everyone,

We unfortunately have to close the !lemmyshitpost community for the time being. We have been fighting the CSAM (Child Sexual Assault Material) posts all day but there is nothing we can do because they will just post from another instance since we changed our registration policy.

We keep working on a solution, we have a few things in the works but that won’t help us now.

Thank you for your understanding and apologies to our users, moderators and admins of other instances who had to deal with this.

Edit: @Striker the moderator of the affected community made a post apologizing for what happened. But this could not be stopped even with 10 moderators. And if it wasn’t his community it would have been another one. And it is clear this could happen on any instance.

But we will not give up. We are lucky to have a very dedicated team and we can hopefully make an announcement about what’s next very soon.

Edit 2: removed that bit about the moderator tools. That came out a bit harsher than how we meant it. It’s been a long day and having to deal with this kind of stuff got some of us a bit salty to say the least. Remember we also had to deal with people posting scat not too long ago so this isn’t the first time we felt helpless. Anyway, I hope we can announce something more positive soon.

Feathercrown,

Fuck these trolls

expatriado,

troll is too mild of an adjective for these people

Feathercrown,

How about “pedophile”? I mean, they had to have the images to post them.

jarfil,

“Terrorist”. Having the images doesn’t mean they liked them, they used them to terrorize a whole community though.

HelloHotel, (edited )
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

“Petophilile enabled Terrorist” or “petophilic terrorist” depending on the person

It still means they can tolerate CSAM or are normalized to it enough that they can feel anything other than discust during “shipping and handling”.

AlpacaChariot,

All of your comments have “banned” next to them for me (logged in via lemmy.world using Liftoff) - any idea why?

I assume you’re not actually banned…?

Whitehat93875,
@Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

They were banned because they were defending pedophilia (advocating for them to be able to get off to what turns them on) and also trolling very aggressively. You can look at them in the Modlog on the Website, not sure if Apps implement the modlog yet though.

AlpacaChariot,

Ah thanks, I’ve seen it a few times but thought it was a bug. Why are people like this!

Whitehat93875,
@Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

I have not clue, people can be quite toxic and horrible. Also noticed that they reduced his ban, not sure why, defending pedophilia is pretty bad and definitely carries legal risk but it’s not my call to make.

jarfil, (edited )

Yeah, got banned for forgetting that some axioms give people free pass to say whatever they want, no matter how they say it… and replying in kind is forbidden. My bad.

Whitehat93875,
@Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

You were banned because you were arguing for why people shouldn’t be arrested for possession of CSAM material, trolling and straw-manning in the replies, and on top of that attempting to seriously and honestly advocate for pedophiles on another community, which is at best borderline illegal (anyone can check the modlog on that one if they don’t believe me, I wouldn’t make such claims if they weren’t true).

So to summerize you were banned for

  • Trolling
  • Promoting Illegal Activities (Pedophilla and CSAM)
PM_Your_Nudes_Please,

Yeah, this isn’t just joking or shitposting. This is the kind of shit that gets people locked up in federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison for decades. The feds don’t care if you sought out the CSAM, because it still exists on your device regardless of intent.

The laws about possessing CSAM are written in a way that any plausible deniability is removed, specifically to prevent pedophiles from being able to go “oh lol a buddy sent that to me as a joke” and getting acquitted. The courts don’t care why you have CSAM on your server. All they care about is the fact that you do. And since you own the server, you own the CSAM and they’ll prosecute you for it.

gammasfor,

And not just the instance admins would be at risk as well. Any time you view an image your device is making a local copy of it. Meaning every person who viewed the image even accidentally is at risk as well.

CharlesDarwin,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds like a digital form of SWATing.

pensivepangolin,

Yeah honestly report all of those accounts to law enforcement. It’s unlikely they’d be able to do much, I assume, but these people are literally distributing CSAM.

Whitehat93875,
@Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

That’s not a troll, CSAM goes well beyond trolling, pedophile would be a more accurate term for them.

jarfil,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    A person who is attracted to children is an evil and disgusting person, someone being a pedophile isn’t just “liking something”, they are a monster.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    This is a serious problem we are discussing, please don’t use this as an opportunity to inject bad-faith arguments.

    Edit: Wow your post history is a lot of the same garbage, there is no point in attempting to reason with you, you seem to be defending the act of CSAM or just trolling (really awful and severe trolling I might add, CSAM isn’t something to joke or troll about).

    jarfil, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Ah I see what’s going on, you’re salty that they closed the shitposting community so you’re trolling here, going so far as to compare gays and jews to pedophillia (which is extremely bigoted and incorrect) or downplay the horrific acts that led to the closing of that community and registrations to protect the rest of the Instance’s well being.

    Also I’d appreciate it if you didn’t edit what I said when quoting me, thanks.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Whitehat93875, (edited )
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Amazing, you think that being against pedophiles makes someone a bigot, do you think the same applies to being against Nazis as well? Paradox of tolerance much?

    There’s a very clear difference between the arguments you cited and pedophilia, which is that pedophilia causes physical and psychological harm to the child who is the victim and also is extremely psychologically harmful to the people who witness such event or the abuse material from it. I don’t think you realize how severe this is or you wouldn’t be trying to defend such heinous acts right now.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    🤓

    AceLucario,

    Nothing you say matters, because you’re defending pedophiles. Whoops.

    jarfil, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Lol you do realize blocking on Lemmy means to ignore them, it’s not going to silence them or more critically prevent them from downvoting or reporting you like it does on Reddit.

    You’re just going to stop seeing them, they can keep calling you out for it. You just made it easier for them.

    AceLucario,

    Oh no. Anyways…

    else,

    People spreading CSAM are beyond terrible, but I don’t agree with this generalization. Pedophiles don’t choose to be pedophiles, so as long as they control themselves and avoid harming anyone, I don’t like labelling them as evil monsters.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Okay, fair enough. I wasn’t considering those people since they’ll never really be labelled pedophiles due to hiding their mental illness from the world (only really disclosing it to mental health professionals if ever) and never acting on it. It’s the actions committed or fantasies endorsed that differentiate someone from merely being mentally ill or a monster.

    **Disclaimer:**Would like to say, it is valid for me or anyone else to say pedophiles are mentally ill but it is not valid to say that gay people are mentally ill, homosexuality is a legitimate sexual orientation because people pursuing homosexual attractions with other consenting adults does not harm others, (this is not debatable and I WILL report any homophobic arguments I see popping up as a result here) however pedophilia is not like this at all because anyone who pursues it will cause harm because children cannot consent and therefore these interactions are harmful to them and anyone involved, which is why it is a mental illness (again this is also not debatable, anything that causes harm to others by acting on it is not a valid orientation but a mental illness, same thing goes for rapists).

    else,

    I wasn’t considering those people since they’ll never really be labelled pedophiles due to hiding their mental illness from the world (only really disclosing it to mental health professionals if ever) and never acting on it.

    I guess this is also the difference between getting caught or not. To me, rapist that is never caught is still a rapist even if they are never labelled as such, so a pedophile that hides it forever successfully is still a pedophile.

    Disclaimer

    Yes agreed.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    I guess this is also the difference between getting caught or not. To me, rapist that is never caught is still a rapist even if they are never labelled as such, so a pedophile that hides it forever successfully is still a pedophile.

    Agreed. If they did it but hid it and never were publicly labeled as a pedophile they are still a pedophile because of their actions and intentions, even if they were never caught and/or cancelled/convicted for it.

    khannie,
    @khannie@lemmy.world avatar

    Simply having it to post makes you culpable. It’s way beyond trolling.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    PeleSpirit,

    Are you promoting the acceptance of pedophilia? Cuz that’s what it sounds like and maybe they should start looking at your account first.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you know why we have possession laws against CSAM in the first place? It’s because people buy and sell abuse material in underground markets, it’s another way they profit off the abuse of children. This is nothing like drug possession laws (which are stupid) because the product is literally a direct product of the abuse of children that many of the people in possession likely helped the criminals in order to obtain it (either directly or by paying them for it).

    So yes in this case it does make sense to criminally charge people for possession of something like this considering the direct connection CSAM has to child trafficking and child sexual abuse and when you defend it by going against possession laws it makes it seem like you support these criminals.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    GodzillaFanboy129,

    Oh boy do we have a very hot take here don’t we, lmao this guy just tried to compare someone smoking a joint, doing shrooms, or even cocaine to the act of sexually abusing a child and trying to sell the pictures.

    Don’t even bother engaging with this guy, he’s clearly a troll mindlessly parroting other people’s arguments, report, block, move on.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh by the way, MAP stuff really doesn’t look good on you (that’s in your comment history). Yeah maybe you think I’m a terrible person because I think drugs should be treated less harshly but you have literally said in other comments that Pedophiles should be allowed to get off on what turns them on (which I remind you is exploitation of Minors). That is a very different stance than people shouldn’t be beaten and arrested for snorting coke, you’re literally advocating for people to be allowed to produce and consume abuse material and claiming that it’s acceptable for people to be pedophiles, and pursue their attractions instead of getting help. I don’t know how you don’t see what is wrong with that. Like seriously this is either really bad trolling (way too far) or, you’re one of them.

    Too bad, I’m “kid agnostic”; they might as well be cars or dragons —drawn or otherwise—, I don’t care whether they’re “kid” or “grownup” cars or dragons.

    I think I now know which one it is if that statement from the horse’s mouth is to be believed…

    HelloHotel, (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    A lot of stuff the government bans doesnt align with morrality. In this instance it fucken does

    Yes getting someone to drop this on your hard drive even if its explicitly labeled “cache” is equivilant to evidence planting. It puts you in danger of our laws falsely finding you guilty (misunderstandings are a thing, i dont know the level of risk). The advice by our governments is “delete it emedately”. Follow it as completely as you can. Most devices dont broadcast your harddrive contents without warning, giving you time to delete it. For this being false for iphones, Its a risk to ones personal freedom to go on lemmy on an iphone until we can get this CSAM issue resolved.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    What he’s saying is FBI CHECK THAT GUY’S HARD DRIVE!

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    FBI doesn’t use pitchforks bud, they have tasers and guns.

    jarfil,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    🤓

    PeleSpirit,

    And I think we all agree with that.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    I had no idea how right I was at the time I commented that, since I hadn’t scrolled far back enough in his comment history but yeah, way more right than I would’ve liked 😬

    HelloHotel, (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, its a virus, the FBI will target anyone who is a host. anyone Who has it on their drive, (edit: intent may be relivant, im no expert). The only way to stay safe is to rid yourself of it. Delete it.

    Lemmy mods, keep yourself safeplease dont use an iphone to moderate, if your on linux (i think windows too) use bleachbit on your browser cache and do the “vaccuum” operation. On android - to clear cache or better written instructions here- go to where you see all your apps - find your client - tap and hold on its icon - tap “app info” - go to “storage” - tap “clear cache” - (if your parranoid “clear data” and loose you sign in, settings and other local data). - To manually vaccum, vant find better instructions - download an app called “termux”, it doesnt need any permissions for this task. - when you see a black screen with text, type clear and hit enter, - Then type or paste { echo writing big file of random; cat /dev/urandom >file-gets-big; rm file-gets-big -v; }- And hit enter Your phone and the program cat will complain About being out of storage, if rm gets run, it will be fixed again. If it still complains or termux crashes, uninstall and reinstall termux, the vaccum process is finished Some people know at a glance wether these steps are safe or not, others do not. never follow instructions you dont understand, verify that i havent led you do somthing dumb.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d say the proper word is ‘criminal.’

    CoderKat,

    Yeah. A troll might post something like a ton of oversized images of pig buttholes. Who the fuck even has access to CSAM to post? That’s something you only have on hand if you’re a predator already. Nor is it something you can shrug off like “lol I was only trolling”. It’s a crime that will send you to jail for years. It’s a major crime that gets entire police units dedicated to it. It’s a huuuuge deal and I cannot even fathom what kind of person would risk years in prison to sabotage an internet forum.

    HawlSera,

    My thoughts exactly, like if they were just spamming goatsee or something, that would be one thing…

    But this raises several questions, and they can only have grimdark answers.

    HelloHotel,
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    Dont forget they are doing this to harm others, they deserve the name “e-terrorist” or simmlar. hey are still absolutely pedophiles. Their bombing out a space, not trying to set up shop.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    I would definately agree that this would very likely count as cyber terrorism, and if it doesn’t it should.

    GreenMario,

    Criminals.

    RightHandOfIkaros,

    Trolls? In most regions of the planet, I am fairly certain their actions would be considered criminal.

    DLSchichtl,

    To be fair, that is exactly what trolls did in the wild west days of the net. Back when not many people had home computers, much less the internet. CP and gore, the proverbial shit flung by the troll chimps.

    3ntranced,

    The Internet is essentially a small microbiome of beautiful flora and fauna that grew on top of a lake of sewage.

    jarfil,

    The Internet is a reflection of humanity, minus some of the fear of getting punched in the face.

    PM_Your_Nudes_Please,

    Yeah, back in the Limewire/Napster/etc days, it wasn’t unheard of for people to troll by relabeling CSAM as a popular movie or TV show. Oh, you wanted to download the latest Friends episode? Congrats, now you have CSAM because a troll uploaded it with the title “Friends S10E7.mov”

    Severed_Fate,

    What’s CSAM

    REdOG,
    @REdOG@lemmy.world avatar

    Child sexual assault/abuse material

    OhStopYellingAtMe,
    @OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

    Child sex abuse materials

    FontMasterFlex,

    Honestly why can’t we just say what it is instead of giving every-fucking-thing an anagram that people have to ask what it is in the first place.

    jtablerd,

    *acronym

    PickTheStick,

    *Initialism. Acronyms have to be words, like ACORN or RICE.

    jtablerd,

    Thank you, sir or madam, I stand corrected.

    (excellently done, sincere thanks)

    SgtAStrawberry,

    I think it falls into the category of, given bad thins new lesser bad words so it doesn’t sound so bad anymore. Because the old word made people fell bad. I have noticed it more and more online especially with stuff that is related to sex, it is ether new words or replace the middle with *.

    wildbus8979,

    You’ve got it backwards, it’s completely the opposite. The old terminology associated it with something that is perhaps perverted but totally legal and done by consenting adults. CSAM makes it 100% clear that this is illegal behavior/activities that creates child victims.

    FontMasterFlex,

    idk why you’re being downvoted. no one else seemed to want to reply. just downvote and move on. seems like reddit lives on in lemmy afterall.

    That being said, this generation of people is soft. they can’t even say the words.

    SgtAStrawberry,

    Could not have said it better myself.

    LinkOpensChest_wav,
    @LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

    This is what it is, though. The entire point of switching to the term “CSAM” is because it more accurately describes the content as abusive.

    candybrie,

    I think they’re asking people to type out child sex abuse materials instead of CSAM. It’s not a common enough acronym that people know what it means without explanation. As evidenced by every post using CSAM having someone ask what it means.

    LinkOpensChest_wav,
    @LinkOpensChest_wav@midwest.social avatar

    There are people in every thread who ask, correct, but it’s pretty widely known by now. It’s no different than people previously having to ask what “CP” meant. Obviously, it’s not a problem and is generally considered to be worth the imperceptible amount of educating people to transition to the new term.

    Personally, I don’t find it annoying to have to explain things, so feel free to ignore the questions and leave it to people like me who don’t struggle with the keyboard. What does it take? Seconds to type out the definition.

    MonkderZweite,

    I know the cp command but CP? Copy Protection? That’s DRM.

    candybrie,

    I think when transitioning, it’s a good idea to spell the whole phrase out for your first use and then put the acronym in parentheses. And I’m pretty sure the complaint wasn’t needing to explain stuff but needing to ask and then have someone explain. It’s better if communication is clear from the beginning.

    Nindelofocho,

    I think most platforms will block “CP” too and also that kinda fucks up talking about Cyberpunk

    Nollij,

    It’s also weird to see so many Mario levels refer to CP (Check Point)

    atempuser23,

    Bless you for not knowing. It’s the more accurate description of what was called child porn. It stands for child sexual abuse material.

    Ab_intra,
    @Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

    That sucks! I saw one of these things and reported it. If you need moderators for when it opens I’m willing to help.

    Beefytootz,

    Same, there was some uncensored NSFW post that had a text portion at the end mentioning the age of the person in the clip. Reported that shit immediately

    Ab_intra,
    @Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

    FFS this is so messed up.

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Thank you for your work.

    That also means that they could post to other communities, so I guess moderators need to be vigilant

    aibler,

    Is there an app or anything that can make a notification if anyone posts anything to a community I mod? Am I able to turn of image posts?

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    For image posts, ask your instance admins (as you are on LW, they are probably working on something)

    For notification, not that I know off, but I guess it might be possible using RSS

    aibler,

    Thanks so much! I appreciate the help!

    iforgotmyinstance,

    Please get some legal advice, this is so fucked up.

    PugJesus,

    Genuine question: won’t they just move to spamming CSAM in other communities?

    givesomefucks,

    With how slow Lemmy moves anyways, it wouldn’t be hard to make everything “mod approved” if it’s a picture/video.

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    This, or blocking self hosting pictures

    ButtholeSpiders,
    @ButtholeSpiders@startrek.website avatar

    Honestly, this sounds like the best start until they develop better moderation tools.

    Anonymousllama,

    This seems like the better approach. Let other sites who theoretically have image detection in place sort this out. We can just link to images hosted elsewhere

    user224,
    @user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I generally use imgur anyway because I don’t like loading my home instance with storage + bandwidth. Imgur is simply made for it.

    devious,

    Yes, and only whitelist trusted image hosting services (that is ones that have the resources to deal with any illegal material).

    Darth_vader__,
    @Darth_vader__@discuss.online avatar

    the problem is those sites can also misuse the same tools in a way that harms the privacy of it’s users. We shouldn’t resort to “hacks” to fix real problems, like using client scanning to break E2EE . One solution might be an open sourced and community maintained auto mod bot…

    assassin_aragorn,

    This seems like a really good solution for the time being.

    skullgiver,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    How many mods do you think will want to delete pictures of child abuse all day long? Nornal users won’t be affected but the mods will just leave.

    Besides that, images and videos can be embedded into comments and DMs as well. Lemmy needs a better moderation system to fight these trolls.

    droans,

    Not-so-fun fact - the FBI has a hard limit on how long an individual agent can spend on CSAM related work. Any agent that does so is mandated to go to therapy afterwards.

    It’s not an easy task at all and does emotionally destroy you. There’s a reason why you can find dozens of different tools to automate the detection and reporting.

    skullgiver,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    Exactly. You can only see so many pictures of babies getting raped before you start going crazy.

    Unfortunately, there is no free and open source CSAM hash database. Companies like Microsoft provide free APIs, but the reliable services are either centralised by big tech companies or used exclusively by law enforcement. There is scanning technology that is open source, but without a database of verified hashes that technology is rather useless.

    CharlesDarwin,
    @CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep. I know someone that does related work for a living, and there are definite time limits and so on for exactly the reasons you say. This kind of stuff leaves a mark on normal people.

    SubArcticTundra,

    Or it could even just ask 50 random instance users to approve it. To escape this, >50% of accounts would have to be bots, which is unlikely.

    XylightNotAdmin,

    But then people would have to see the horrible content first

    SubArcticTundra,

    That definitely is a downside

    CantSt0pPoppin,
    @CantSt0pPoppin@lemmy.world avatar

    This is seriously sad and awful that people would go this far to derail a community. It makes me concerned for other communities as well. Since they have succeeded in having shitpost closed does this mean they will just move on to the next community? That being said here is some very useful information on the subject and what can be done to help curb CSAM.

    The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) CyberTipline: You can report CSAM to the CyberTipline online or by calling 1-800-843-5678. Your report will be forwarded to a law enforcement agency for investigation. The National Sexual Assault Hotline: If you or someone you know has been sexually assaulted, you can call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-HOPE (4673) or chat online. The hotline is available 24/7 and provides free, confidential support.

    The National Child Abuse Hotline: If you suspect child abuse, you can call the National Child Abuse Hotline at 800-4-A-CHILD (422-4453). The hotline is available 24/7 and provides free, confidential support. Thorn: Thorn is a non-profit organization that works to fight child sexual abuse. They provide resources on how to prevent CSAM and how to report it.

    Stop It Now!: Stop It Now! is an organization that works to prevent child sexual abuse. They provide resources on how to talk to children about sexual abuse and how to report it.

    Childhelp USA: Childhelp USA is a non-profit organization that provides crisis intervention and prevention services to children and families. They have a 24/7 hotline at 1-800-422-4453. Here are some tips to prevent CSAM:

    Talk to your children about online safety and the dangers of CSAM.

    Teach your children about the importance of keeping their personal information private. Monitor your children’s online activity.

    Be aware of the signs of CSAM, such as children being secretive or withdrawn, or having changes in their behavior. Report any suspected CSAM to the authorities immediately.

    over_clox,

    So far I have not seen such disgusting material, but I’m saving this comment in case I ever need the information.

    Are there any other numbers or sites people can contact in countries other than the USA?

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    It’s probably going to be country dependent

    over_clox,

    Of course yes. But I’ve discovered that cell phones are programmed to translate emergency numbers even.

    In the USA, our main emergency number is 911, but I found out (quite by accident), that dialing 08 brings you to emergency services.

    en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_emergency_telephone_nu…

    aport,

    Contact the FBI

    Ertebolle,

    This is good advice; I suspect they're outside of the FBI's jurisdiction, but they could also be random idiots, in which case they're random idiots who are about to become registered sex offenders.

    CantSt0pPoppin,
    @CantSt0pPoppin@lemmy.world avatar

    I have to wonder if Interpol could help with issues like this I know there are agencies that work together globally to help protect missing and exploited children.

    GeekFTW,
    @GeekFTW@kbin.social avatar

    'Criminal activity should be reported to your local or national police. INTERPOL does not carry out investigations or arrest people; this is the responsibility of national police.'

    From their website.

    assassin_aragorn,

    What the hell do they actually do then?

    GeekFTW,
    @GeekFTW@kbin.social avatar

    "Interpol provides investigative support, expertise and training to law enforcement worldwide, focusing on three major areas of transnational crime: terrorism, cybercrime and organized crime. Its broad mandate covers virtually every kind of crime, including crimes against humanity, child pornography, drug trafficking and production, political corruption, intellectual property infringement, as well as white-collar crime. The agency also facilitates cooperation among national law enforcement institutions through criminal databases and communications networks. Contrary to popular belief, Interpol is itself not a law enforcement agency."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol

    assassin_aragorn,

    Huh. Thanks!

    Ab_intra,
    @Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

    FBI would be great in this case tbh. They have the resources.

    TheTimeKnife,
    @TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world avatar

    The FBI reports it to interpol I believe, interpol is more of like an international warrant system built from treaties.

    The_Picard_Maneuver,
    @The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

    They might be, but I’d imagine most countries have laws on the books about this sort of stuff too.

    droans,

    And it’s something that the nations usually have no issues cooperating with.

    The FBI has assisted in a lot of global raids related to CSAM.

    assassin_aragorn,

    There are few situations where pretty much everyone universally agrees to work together. This is one of those situations. Across cultures and nations, pedos are seen as some of the most vile people alive.

    dylanTheDeveloper,
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    The FBI has offices in alot of other countries and work with local law enforcement.

    www.fbi.gov/contact-us/international-offices

    Can’t really hide from them unless you live in North Korea or Russia

    jarfil,

    Wait, is this like China having police offices in other countries?

    I knew the US collects taxes on their citizens no matter where they live, but isn’t this kind of excessive? Wasn’t INTERPOL supposed to take care of international crime?

    dylanTheDeveloper, (edited )
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    For more than eight decades, the FBI has stationed special agents and other personnel overseas. We help protect Americans back home by building relationships with principal law enforcement, intelligence, and security services around the globe.

    It is similar to China’s international police but keep in mind quite a few other countries have a similar setup

    jarfil,

    I’m just surprised that it’s FBI personnel, I thought the CIA was in charge of international affairs, with INTERPOL acting as liaison for the FBI with other countries.

    IIRC in the EU we have EUROPOL acting as liaison between the national law enforcement branches, and while there is nothing stopping personnel from one country to enter another, I don’t think they do. But maybe that’s more like the state vs. federal jurisdictions in the US. On the other hand, it’s been some time since I’ve looked deeper into it, and things keep changing.

    gowan,
    @gowan@reddthat.com avatar

    You might be surprised to discover that the USA does not believe their laws end at their borders. That is why Kim Dotcom was arrested by the FBI in NZ for violating US law.

    In this case I doubt any LE agency abroad wouldn’t like the tip off.

    Touching_Grass,

    I’m not saying anybody takes csam less serious. But I wish the American government Went after minor csam events as much as they go after copyright/IP violations. Its not like mike pompeo flew out to other countries to strong arm them into new laws to prevent csam like they have done with pirates who threatened Hollywood profits

    gowan,
    @gowan@reddthat.com avatar

    We did that back in the 1990s under Clinton and a bit under GWB as well. If I recall correctly we got really firm with Japan about how they needed to ban CP there.

    jarfil, (edited )

    There is no CP and no porn in Japan… add some tiny censor bars, and it’s just some wholesome family tentacle fun!

    That one backfired spectacularly.

    gowan,
    @gowan@reddthat.com avatar

    As I recall the laws at the time were that you could not show pubic hair so naked kids who had no pubes were fine.

    jarfil,

    TIL. Oh well, it probably will keep backfiring as long as Japan insists on having “morality laws” instead of something more objective.

    jarfil,

    I wish the American government Went after minor csam events as much as they go after copyright/IP violations.

    Easy: claim copyright/IP on the CSAM… uh, no, wait…

    Resonosity,

    Yeah there was even that case where a citizen and resident of Mexico was arrested and detained in the US for breaking US law, even tho it technically didn’t apply to them since they were under Mexican sovereignty… Borders mean little to the US

    synae,
    @synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Perhaps most importantly, it establishes that the mods/admins/etc of the community are not complicit in dissemination of the material. If anyone (isp, cloud provider, law enforcement, etc) tries to shut them down for it, they can point to their active and prudent engagement of proper authorities.

    Railing5132,

    More importantly, and germaine to our conversation, the FBI has the contacts and motivation to work with their international partners wherever the data leads.

    ivanafterall,
    @ivanafterall@kbin.social avatar

    This isn't as crazy as it may sound either. I saw a similar situation, contacted them with the information I had, and the field agent was super nice/helpful and followed up multiple times with calls/updates.

    Daisyifyoudo,

    This doesn’t sound crazy in the least. It sounds like exactly what should be done.

    BitOneZero,

    yha, what do people think the FBI is for… this isn’t crazy. They can get access to ISP logs, VPN provider logs, etc.

    deweydecibel,

    I think what they’re saying is that contacting the FBI may seem daunting to someone who has never dealt with something like this before, but that they don’t need to worry about it. Just contact them.

    akippnn,

    Under US jurisdiction, yeah. Could be slightly more difficult depending on the country, LEGAT can’t conduct unilateral operations so they’ll have to cooperate with foreign authorities. These assholes can get away with exploiting jurisdictional boundaries. Hopefully they will be caught, but oh well.

    Ertebolle,

    This sucks, but we were probably due to have a Grand Registration Security Hash-Out at some point; going forward, any instance that wants others to federate with it is probably going to have to have a system in place to make it impossible for jackasses like this to create endless spam accounts.

    Pratai,

    Pedophiles are fighting with the only weapon they have that can fuck up someone’s life-

    The irony.

    CantSt0pPoppin,
    @CantSt0pPoppin@lemmy.world avatar

    Even if they aren’t they are providing it and weaponizing it to destroy communities this is a sad day. To think people would stoop this low is truly unhinged and unforgivable.

    assassin_aragorn,

    The difference between a pedophile and someone who uses this material to attack with is negligible. It’s almost indescribable how evil these people are.

    Anti_Weeb_Penguin,

    Sorry for my ignorance, what does CSAM mean? Thank you in advance.

    Tugboater203,
    @Tugboater203@kbin.social avatar

    Child Sexual Abuse Material

    Anti_Weeb_Penguin,

    Thanks.

    STRIKINGdebate2,
    @STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world avatar

    I would like to extend my sincerest apologies to all of the users here who liked lemmy shit posting. I feel like I let the situation grow too out of control before getting help. Don’t worry I am not quitting. I fully intend on staying around. The other two deserted the community but I won’t. Dm me If you wish to apply for mod.

    Sincerest thanks to the admin team for dealing with this situation. I wish I linked in with you all earlier.

    lwadmin,
    @lwadmin@lemmy.world avatar

    @Striker this is not your fault. You stepped up when we asked you to and actively reached out for help getting the community moderated. But even with extra moderators this can not be stopped. Lemmy needs better moderation tools.

    rob_t_firefly,
    @rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world avatar

    Hopefully the devs will take the lesson from this incident and put some better tools together.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s a Matrix Room for building mod tools here maybe we might want to bring up this issue there, just in case they aren’t already aware.

    WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

    Or we’ll finally accept that the core Lemmy devs aren’t capable of producing a functioning piece of software and fork it.

    Bread,

    Its not easy to build a social media app, forking it won’t make it any easier to solve this particular problem. Joining forces to tackle an inevitable problem is the only solution. The Lemmy devs are more than willing to accept pull requests for software improvements.

    x1gma,

    And who’s gonna maintain the fork? Even less developers from a split community? You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

    dandroid,

    This isn’t your fault. Thank you for all you have done in regards to this situation thus far.

    gabe,

    Please, please, please do not blame yourself for this. This is not your fault. You did what you were supposed to do as a mod and stepped up and asked for help when you needed to, lemmy just needs better tools. Please take care of yourself.

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    It’s not your fault, thank you for your job!

    Mr_Blott,

    Definitely not your fault mate, you did what anyone would do, it’s a new community and shit happens

    rob_t_firefly,
    @rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks for your work. The community was appreciated.

    Thief,

    Thank you for your help. It is appreciated.

    Touching_Grass,

    Really feel for you having to deal with this.

    Nerd02,
    @Nerd02@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    You don’t have to apologize for having done your job. You did everything right and we appreciate it a lot. I’ve spent the whole day trying to remove this shit from my own instance and understanding how purges, removals and pictrs work. I feel you, my man. The only ones at fault here are the sickos who shared that stuff, you keep holding on.

    reverendsteveii,

    You didn’t do anything wrong, this isn’t your fault and we’re grateful for the effort. These monsters will be slain, and we will get our community back.

    Draconic_NEO,
    @Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s not your fault, these people attacked and we don’t have the proper moderation tools to defend ourselves yet. Hopefully in the future this will change though. As it stands you did the best that you could.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I love your community and I know it is hard for you to handle this but it isn’t your fault! I hope no one here blames you because it’s 100% the fault of these sick freaks posting CSAM.

    GONADS125,

    You’ve already had to take all that on, don’t add self-blame on top of it. This wasn’t your fault and no reasonable person would blame you. I really feel for what you and the admins have had to endure.

    Don’t hesitate to reach out to supports or speak to a mental health professional if you’ve picked up trauma from the shit you’ve had to see. There’s no shame in getting help.

    Becoming,
    @Becoming@lemmy.world avatar

    As so many others have said, there’s no need for an apology. Thank you for all of the work that you have been doing!

    The fact that you are staying on as mod speaks to your character and commitment to the community.

    MsPenguinette,

    You do a great job. I’ve reported quite a few shit heads there and it gets handled well and quickly. You have no way of knowing if some roach is gonna die after getting squashed or if they are going to keep coming back

    Graphine, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    _Sprite,
    @_Sprite@lemmy.world avatar

    TMI, man

    Graphine,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    clueless_stoner,
    @clueless_stoner@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks.

    butterflyattack,

    Anyone got any idea why they are doing this? Seems a bit extreme.

    Zellith,

    Fuckin weirdos man.

    nostalgicgamerz, (edited )

    Potential sabotage. There’s definitely a corporate interest in killing the Fediverse and getting people like you and me back to Reddit and Twitter.

    Plus for outside groups with potential interest who aren’t informed of the situation, Lemmy is now branded as that CSAM site so people are not as likely to come here and or leave their established mainstream social platforms

    Ab_intra,
    @Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

    This is sabotage on another level. The people posting this faces seriously time in jail for just having it on their PC.

    nostalgicgamerz,

    Oh I agree

    Enigma,

    Is kbin having these issues?

    dojan,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    My cynical mind believes this.

    Ensign_Crab,

    I think it’s been the same people throughout, starting with the defacing, followed by the DDOS’es, and now this. Judging from the content of the defacing, it’s bigots who don’t like the idea of someplace they’re not welcome.

    nostalgicgamerz,

    Ah so exploding head fucktards.

    The ones that care so much about “grooming” and “leave kids alone”

    Who would have thought that was all projection!? Wait we all did

    Ensign_Crab,

    I was thinking like 4chan types, but your theory tracks too.

    Nollij,

    I suspect there’s a lot of overlap there

    Ensign_Crab,

    Fair.

    sab,

    The problem with asking “who’s behind this untraceable* attack?” is that you either truthful but useless answers (we don’t know), or just someone speculating that their “enemy” is responsible. I wouldn’t use the word projection so easily in this context, if I were you.

    (* unless you consider interpol and the likes)

    nostalgicgamerz, (edited )

    seriously, you’re defending…them? Also I have the right to make assumptions based on previous attacks thesee all occurred right after defederation…so yes, hate groups like them are suspect #1

    “If I were you”

    Annnnd what is that supposed to imply?

    sab,

    I’m not defending anyone.

    I didn’t expect I had to spell it out for you, but here’s what I’m saying: Until some kind of international investigation force comes out with clear evidence, anyone who tells you “who did it”, is just projecting who they want to be the perpetrator.

    AFKBRBChocolate,

    This is a very popular Lemmy.World community. This instance has been dealing with regular ddos attacks for quite a while now. Either some person or some group has an issue with this specific instance, or they picked it because it’s the biggest and they’re trying to take Lemmy down generally. The ddos attacks have chased away a number of people, but lots of us have dug in our heels. This is probably the newest strategy.

    The admins have said, based on the ddos strategies, whoever is doing it is familiar with underlying Lemmy implementation, so my guess is it’s someone from one of the instances that we defederated from, but it’s just a guess.

    EnglishMobster, (edited )

    Could be any number of reasons.

    My money is on 4chan/8chan/whatever today’s derivative is. I used to be super active with them back in the day when I was young, racist, and stupid.

    This sort of stuff matches their target profile:

    • Visible - Reddit has shone a spotlight on Lemmy recently, and Lemmy.world specifically has gotten called out as the most promising of all the Lemmy instances
    • Vulnerable - the tooling to stop large-scale attacks doesn’t exist. Users aren’t “locked in” to the threadiverse yet. People generally aren’t expecting it.
    • “Lulzy” - attacking a large Lemmy community would cause a lot of panic in the wider threadiverse community. The 4chan/8chan trolls thrive on panic; they think people freaking out is funny. The more panic they cause, the funnier it is.

    The methods line up, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were behind the DDOS as well. DDOS is the simplest tool they use, and when that stops being funny they escalate.

    CSAM, gore, scat, torture are all stuff they have in their arsenal, ready to spam. They go out and look for the stuff, build up folders of it to use on their victims. That stuff causes panic, and that’s what they thrive on. They want to see the biggest response they can. Scat is just gross, usually a good opener. CSAM is good because it gets operators in legal trouble. Gore and torture makes people leave a site in droves.

    Channers aren’t dumb, either. They know how to use technology. If something is open source, that just gives them something to study and look for attack surfaces. Someone will make a custom-built tool to exploit a vulnerability and it will run until the vulnerability is patched. I had dozens of random tools back in the day that were intended for one-off attacks, plus stuff in the toolbelt like Low Orbit Ion Cannon (DDOS) and Cain and Abel (password cracking).

    I should reiterate that it has been many years since I was part of that crowd - well over a decade at this point. Things are undoubtedly different. (I refuse to call these guys “Anonymous” - that name was butchered a long time ago when people started speaking on places like Twitter “on behalf of Anonymous”. I’m not using the names they call themselves either.)

    When I was a channer, one of the big targets was Reddit. Channers hated Reddit, because Reddit would steal stuff from 4chan and repost it. Reddit was just an inferior version of 4chan, but they were so smug about things and they were a bunch of prudes to boot. So Reddit was a relatively popular target until finally they got better at stopping large attacks.

    I have to imagine that a lot of channers dislike Reddit still. Lemmy is seen as the new Reddit - and worse, it’s run by commies.

    Channers that do this stuff are Nazis. They just are. (Why do you think they chose the number 8 when 4chan got sick of them? It’s not because it’s 4 times 2.) They’re extremely open about being Nazis, with jokes about gas chambers and everything. You get the hardcore tankies as well, but the tankies are generally so far gone as to be essentially indistinguishable from Nazis themselves.

    The fact that Lemmy is left-leaning makes it another reasonable target. Nazis hate commies, although they will accept tankies (to an extent). This is probably why Lemmy.ml wasn’t targeted despite being the historic “main” Lemmy instance (full of tankies). Lemmy.world is left-leaning but still highly visible, so it’d be a good target. If Lemm.ee keeps growing, that’s probably the next target on the list.

    This is all baseless speculation. Lemmygrad and Hexbear are both also reasonable sources. Hexbear is notorious for being disruptive in the same way 4chan was back in the day, but supposedly they’re better nowadays (not that I necessarily believe that).

    But I’m reminded of the stuff I did as a dumb kid, before I knew better. It matches with how they act. I’m not saying it’s explicitly 4chan/8chan/888chan/whatever, but the way it’s coordinated certainly smells familiar.

    Francis_Fujiwara,

    What the fuck, dude? That’s weird.

    Whitehat93875,
    @Whitehat93875@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s evil, disgusting, and illegal. Weird doesn’t seem like a good adjective at all to describe what happened, way too tame.

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