That completely depends on what’s updating, and I haven’t seen software updates as frequent occurrences. The frequency may be something I’m missing, of course.
That’s the most ridiculous part to me. Why isn’t this able to continue off the car battery? It should be do not disconnect car battery if anything. I hope there’s some sort of fail safe to prevent it from bricking that doesn’t involve a factory reset or dealer visit.
Yeah but shouldn’t the power usage for the infotainment system be similar to a cell phone at this point with similar hardware where it really shouldn’t be possible to run a car battery dead during an update?
Ideally. Depends on the update time too. I know flashing ECU tunes requires a battery topper. I’ve also killed a car battery modding my infotainments firmware so it’s totally possible. But most likely Subaru is doing it out of an abundance of caution… Don’t want an angry customer coming saying the update killed their battery
My car pulls about 130W on the 12V line while in “stand-by”. That would flatten a 12V, 40Ah battery in less than four hours, and that’s only if it’s in perfect health.
So that sort of happened to me on the previous gen of this infotainment unit.
I used the app to turn on the car and it keeps the car on for a short time, I started the update but it took way longer than I expected and the car shut off halfway through.
It seems to me that the unit is kept in some low power standby mode, when I turned the car back on, it just continued from where it stopped.
I love my Subaru. But the infotainment system is awful. It’s slow and unresponsive, it frequently takes a few minutes to warm up to even be usable, which means usually when you can use it you’re already moving. It’s absolutely impossible to do anything outside of the touch screen.
The car is great, but that computer is a piece of crap
My Subaru made me drop Android and buy an iPhone. I hate the phone, but the infotainment system works drastically better. Android Auto was hot garbage.
Just out of curiosity, what android phone did you have before switching? I haven’t hadany issues with Android Auto the few times I’ve used it in a rental car. My car is too old for it but it’s going to be a variable in my next vehicle purchase which admittedly is very far away.
Android auto in isolation is generally fine. I’ve owned an aftermarket head unit that offered android auto and it worked flawlessly with my pixel phone.
When I bought a Subaru crosstrek, android auto using the same phone was terrible. It constantly disconnects and has strange audio issues all the time. Apple carplay works fine with my partners phone.
There is something about Subaru and their implementation that is total shit for android auto specifically. I wouldn’t recommend them for a good android infotainment experience.
My mom has a ‘16 Subaru and the infotainment has been such a hassle. I had to constantly keep repairing her Bluetooth. It was so bad that my daughter, who has wanted a Subaru for years decided against one simply because of the infotainment.
She ended up getting a 2016 Nissan Rogue, but it did not have an infotainment system. It is a fairly simple system with Bluetooth connectivity for audio. I wish more companies would give us the ability to modify the systems, especially after they abandon them (my 2015 Toyota Tacoma’s last map update is from about 6 months before my truck was built.)
My ‘15 Mitzu (love her so much) also has a full shit infotainment system. It’s super slow, Bluetooth has a 1.5 second delay (try watching anything on your phone while waiting for someone with that delay!) and also constantly drops connection and re-pairs.
I’ve got a BT-to-3.5mm jack BT adapter that connects INSTANTLY, sounds fantastic, and has NO DELAY.
…the got dang car doesn’t have A 3.5MM JACK WHY THE FUCK
I cam confirm that the Subarus my inlaws have had over the last 5 years have the worst infotainment systems I have ever interacted with. Their current one keeps killing the battery. Not just draining, but actually damaging it. They have had a loaner from the dealer for the last 3 months.
Love how it drives, but the electronics are annoying to use, slow, and way too distracting.
Yeah these infotainment systems are trash. I think the Subaru one is made by Denso. Like, Denso makes spark plugs and shit, stay in your line Denso! Thank fuck for Carplay/Android Auto.
I have a 2017 Nissan versa and it’s like a fleet trim or something. No power anything (locks or windows) no computer touch screen system, not even a chipped key! Manual transmission and gets almost 40mpg. What you want is out there, it’s just hard to find because the car manufacturers won’t make as much margin on them.
New cars have all sorts of privacy issues too. I think it was the Mozilla foundation that released a report recently that claimed every single modern electric car harvests as much data as they can about their users and sells it.
Yup. Unfortunately, since most people seem to prefer the dystopian futuretech, all auto manufacturers are going to employ it. Just like with cell phones. The last phone I know of with 16:9 aspect ratio and no blighted hole punch or notch was in 2018. There’s a market full of us luddites who prefer the old ways, but we’re invisible to manufacturers because it’s more profitable to make something that more people want to buy, and we’re forced to buy that garbage as well anyway.
There are some positives and negatives to the desire for old form factors. Secondhand phones from 2018 cost much less than new ones but lack some of the new features like… I can’t think of any.
All contactless payments use it. All your cards have it. All phones that you. Can pay from (which I don’t know any new brand that doesn’t offer this feature) uses it.
I guess that covid was the resurgence, with all the banks and businesses setting up nfc cards and payment machines for zero touch payments.
Don’t worry. You know those car nuts who put 20 spoilers on their cars and mod the engine etc… There will be a point where most of them do it with the futuretech cars and it will be in their way, which means they will circumvent it and ordinary people will be able to hire them to do it to their cars too. It was the same wis “chip tuning”.
Yeah, it goes further than just designing the hardware to only last a few years, all of these electronics ensure that the car is fucked as soon as the necessary online services go down. Meanwhile a well-maintained '93 Geo Metro, driven in the south where they don’t salt the roads every year, can last decades.
I dont know the details, but Ive heard of companies that do this, or kits that can be used for it, existing, though I can only imagine that changing a car that one’s business has not manufactured and was never designed for such a conversion must take a lot of manual work, which would be expensive before even considering things like the cost of batteries.
Swapping an engine is relatively easy if you know what you’re doing… If these kits can connect the electric motor to the existing drive train it wouldn’t be too bad. Messing around with batteries big enough for an electric vehicle can be really dangerous though.
Power train conversion is reasonably simple. Just throw combustion engine and transmission box away, make brackets for electric motors and attach them directly to the wheels (with axles if necessary). Conversion of controls is (I assume) is also somewhat simple since existing brake system and power steering is quite straightforward to run with electric motors since you just need something which can run a belt drive and gas pedal is most likely already electric. For all the electronics you have plenty of space in where the engine used to be.
But. And there’s a pretty big but. Batteries are pretty big and pretty heavy. On any given combustion engine car there’s just no room for them (at least if you’re after a conversion with similar range/power than a readily built electric car). And even if you cut the floor panel off and modify it to accomodate battery pack (or whatever the route you choose might be) it’ll heavily affect weight distribution, frame stability and many other things, suspension included. Model S battery is apparently 540kg, so if you’ll do a conversion to your corolla you might save around 150kg of weight by removing old engine+transmission but you’d still have additional 300kg of mass to deal with.
For a van which is designed to haul heavy loads from the start it might be pretty simple to just raise floor of the cargo space a bit but for a common sedan that’s a whole another thing.
I looked into this for my car. The conversion has a 50 mile range, essentially replaces the engine with an electric motor, locks the car in 3rd gear, and replaces the fuel tank with batteries.
It cost about £3500, which was a bit much for me considering the car only cost £3k, and I could just sell my car to buy a 100mile+ leaf for the same outlay.
In our local craigslist for cars website someone has been selling a -84(or so) Nissan Sunny for ages with electric conversion. The seller did just that, took combustion engine out, attached a electric motor into transmission and the result is that you have 80’s car, with manual transmission and batteries so small that once you’re out of the driveway you’ve depleted 10% of the batteries (give or take, but that’s pretty much what you’ll get). And it had something like 15kW minus losses of the drive train.
But the parts are so expensive (at least for now) that listed price is almost 10k€. I can understand that seller wants their money back and it isn’t the most serious conversion out there, but the reality is that you’ll get a shitty 80’s car with a even shittier EV conversion (since the frame has it’s limits and high quality components are expensive) while you can sell a similar car with a combustion engine for 350€ on a good day and a tank full.
I don’t even use BT in mine and don’t use the music system either. I stick to my phone. I just hope by the time I need to switch cars, I’ll be able to jailbreak it without bricking.
Battery tech will need to improve greatly and be minimalized. EV batteries are currently massive, heavy, and generally engineered as long, wide, flat modules to be installed beneath the floor so they keep the center of gravity low and the vehicle balanced. That’s not really possible in an ICE vehicle with all the frame molding around existing exhaust and drivetrain components, and you most likely can’t just have some sort of modular battery and motor unit that you just drop into the engine bay, as that would put a ton (literally) of additional weight on one end and mess with the balance.
The draintrain components may need to be replaced or the motor outputs modulated to prevent the torque from ripping it apart.
Power steering and brakes will need to converted to electric assist. AC and heat would need to converted to electric.
Older cars (early 00’s and older) with cable throttles will need to be retrofitted with drive-by-wire, or use some sort of adapter module that connects the cable and converts it to digital inputs. Same with brakes.
All of the electronics (lights, wipers, windows, locks, radio, etc.) will need to be rewired since there’s no longer an alternator.
Probably will need upgraded suspension and brakes to handle the extra weight.
There’s probably a lot more I’m not thinking about or not even aware of. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s going to happen outside of rich enthusiast circles, which is terribly sad, because I completely agree with you. Basically everything made after around 2010 is total dogshit.
Because it's a main source of active power that can be re-directed.
A battery on an EV can be too, in which case the main contactor should be verified disconnected prior to any software update. But typically people don't refer to that as the 'engine'.
So prime mover encompasses engines and main batteries.
Agreed, it’s a waste environmentally, on my pocket book, waste of time (do you have to babysit this thing while it’s updating?) and is unnecessary wear and tear on the engine.
The electrics stay on on my car when you turn the engine off, until you open the door. I don’t see why that behavior can’t be overridden until the update is done, and then turn itself off.
This is interesting. My Hyundai when it gets software updates (usually just updating the built in GPS) tells me the update can continue even when the car is off. Didn’t realize not all new cars could do that.
Nah, I’m jailbreaking my car if I get one that does this shit. I forced Windows to fuck off with their updates and I damn sure can tell my car manufacturer the same.
Toyota said my prius needed an update so I installed the app for it. All the update did was remove fucking features that were usable in the car. Used to have the option to use Pandora from the console but it got removed randomly by an update.
Then they installed an Alexa search page that glitches my console if I every select it.
Sounds like getting the 2016 model of Prius was a good call on my part. Of course, it was 2019 when I did it and that model wasn’t substantially different, but that sounds awful.
I haven’t had that problem, but it does do this weird thing where it sometimes messes up pairing with the bluetooth on my phone and plays everything super fast.
My 2015 Subaru Impreza has a shitty entertainment system. At least it still connects via BT, but they removed the screen mirroring really early on and the app had ~1 star on Google Play for a long time (probably still does). Thankfully it’s not integrated with the features of the car in any meaningful way. I could swap it for any other head unit. No sure how that will work with modern cars where the AC, lane departure, and everything else goes to the stereo.
The real issue, as you point out, is there is nothing to force them to continue supporting it or maintain its features once us poor suckers have bought it.
If it’s anything like my MIL’s 17’ Forester, you flat can’t replace the headunit without disabling a lot of car features. I believe the land departure/EyeSight still works, though.
Granted not a software update but my dad’s Cadillac got recalled once and all they did was make the ceiling buttons harder to read that was the one time he ever obayed a recall
How they made the buttons so recessed that you need to move your head directly under them to see what button is what. Why it’s a Cadillac ATS this car is the physical incarnation of mildly infuriating and I have no idea why my dad loves it so much when both me and my mom find everything about that car mildly infuriating I guess they just found another way to make the car mildly infuriating
New cars ARE great. I went from half screen Android Auto to full screen when it was released. It’s a 30 second update. I know, the end of the world shit.
Buy a 90s shit bucket if you don’t want a nice infotainment, I guess. Modern software needs updates. I’ve never sat more than a few seconds. They are rare updates, I’ve got 3 in 3 years.
Nothing inherent about modern software makes it require updates. You only need to update software regularly if it has external connectivity so you can patch vulnerabilities, and forcing that on people is just an excuse to force “feature” updates that include lots of bloat and spyware. It should be illegal to make connectivity mandatory.
Ouch, I doubt anyone would he looking forward to babysitting their idling car for 2 hours, just to install a navigation update 😭
Older vehicles and standalone GPSes allowed people to just order a physical pre-loaded SD card, insert it into the appropriate slot, and that’s your maps sorted with no idling or babysitting.
While it’s nice that there’s no longer the excess physical electronic waste with the SD cards, I find it hard to see the cloud alternative as an improvement
Is there no option to download it on a PC and use a flash drive to install to the vehicle? Or are they saying install time is 1-2 hours because the hardware is that bad?
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