This is an Apple miss. Their tendency for status equaling heavy materials and lack of obvious options just makes it a no-go for me. Noise cancelling, wireless, over the ear headphones exist for airplanes. Having a headset that is heavy, that doesn’t fold and can’t be turned off (only put to sleep in a dumb bra-like case) don’t meet that mark.
I’m sure they sound great and the magnetic ear cups a good idea, but this is a miss for me. The price is the final nail in the coffin. My Sony XM4s sound nearly as good, can be worn for long flights without fatigue, fold up, and because they’re light but sturdy plastic I’m not worried about them denting or anything like that if I drop them. And I didn’t have to pay over $500 for them.
Maybe I’m not the most discerning listener, but I got a $60 pair of Skullcandy wireless noise cancelling earbuds and my only problem with them is that you have to hold them down to skip a track rather than just push once (that turns off noise canceling), which is bad UI, but other than that, couldn’t be happier.
Arguably, if you’re compressing the signal wirelessly via Bluetooth, the ceiling for quality is probably in that low couple hundred bucks market. Apple probes people will overpay for something but anything actually better is probably going to be wired.
Apple has done the math and it’s cheaper to deny deny deny than to do the right thing. And that’s factoring in the inevitable class action lawsuit payouts.
I knew exactly what clip this would be. I think it’s about time for my annual fight club rewatch. Always makes me want to/wonder why no one has started some anti corporate domestic terrorist groups…
I think we might be on the brink. I just saw an article about someone getting in a shootout with the sheriff trying to evict him. It’ll start with individual acts like that and snowball.
Rooting for the demise of society is a weird place I didnt think I’d be at the first time I saw fight club. It’s funny how I’ve gotten more radicalized as I’ve aged.
I got myself some new-old stock Harman Kardon ANC headphones from Ebay for around 50.
I can’t believe people were paying ~300 for them new, they do feel nice to hold, but the sound oomph just isn’t there for that original price. The ANC, stupendously long battery life, and actually being heard in calls is all it really has going for it IMO
Never had this issue with mine. I’ve taken them kayaking with me, they got pretty wet and i got pretty sweaty, but the insides of the cups were dry. This has been discussed on forums ever since i bought them more than two years ago. This feels like recycled news just to stir people up about apple products. Good journalism. It worked.
Oh must be only these people who complained about them to the article author. It couldn’t possibly be survivor bias on your part or more importantly that Apple is at fault.
I don’t buy logos. I buy products that solve problems in my daily life. Apple comes to be very very good at offering appropriate solutions I don’t need to deal with beforehand to become such a solution. In this case of course the product is crap, if it can’t handle the environment its supposed to work in.
i’m happy when you are … paying 500 for the headphones is ok if it makes you happy … not for the value of the headphones, but your happyness is worth much more
still you bought a pair of 500$ headphones from apple where you’d get “semi-professional” ones from the leaders of that segment for the same price range (bose, senheiser, sony)
for audio fanatics those 500$ seem insane as well … just saying
Apple is leading the sales on in-ear headphones. Are they the leaders? Who defines leaders? I admit that there are users who deliberately buy the feeling when purchasing specific Apple products. Mostly those who don’t need to review the price-tag a few times. But they are surely not the majority.
And again: Its interesting to see how so many throw these two different buying personas in to the same pot and declare all Apple users mindless cattle.
not wanting to throw you into any bucket … just want to point out that your argumentation isn’t 100% valid
like this comment … are you saying, because they sell the most “in(!)-ear” headphones, they must be the leader of high quality on-ear headohones with anc etc?
i mean if i think about the magic mouse with the touch guestures to scroll for example - even if logitech is doing a much better job, they just dont get access to the api to implement the smooth scrolling like you get with apple products
its those things which makes apple a nogo for me … and of course the crazy prices
but i get old and tired of hating … i just buy the stock and benefit from the users who are ok with all that
Apple offers average turd polished to perfection. If you are looking to solve problems then you look at specs and what hardware/software can do for you. At that point Apple stops being viable option because just for the RAM upgrade itself you can buy a decent used ThinkPad laptop more powerful than Mac you are trying to buy.
Apple is a statement, just like Supreme is. Charge 150$ for plain white t-shirt and people buy it because they want to be part of the cult, not because it’s 150x higher quality cotton or more durable material. You buy it because of the name or because they have you by the balls, because Apple makes it very easy to enter their ecosystem, but impossibly hard to leave.
They are no black magic. ARM is simply better optimized for mobile devices and Apple being a walled garden with tightly controlled hardware and software, they had the ability to transition into ARM chis on laptops without much hassle. However ARM chips do suffer in performance and some other areas. That said, the rest of the gang is following up with this move. Won’t be too long before they lose even that advantage.
Also, I wouldn’t really call them a game changer. I understand what you meant by your statement, but as a laptop MacBooks are a really bad choice with almost zero repairability these days. From glued batteries, soldered memory to programmed chips which stop working if you move them to another board. All of this (and much more) combined with their repeated engineering failures with even simplest of things makes them extremely undesirable in my eyes. Problem is, people never realize there’s a problem until warranty program runs out and devices start massively dying. Those that do survive are touted as “Apple quality”, but millions of others remain forgotten.
If you are looking to solve problems then you look at specs
No.
As a user (not a tec person) I seek solutions that fit my daily life problems. I don’t care for technical specs. I don’t want to fiddle and tweak my system until I can finally start proceeding my task. I want to take decent photos, I don’t care about the chip size or brand. I want to share those with others and not take care of the technical infrastructure (cloud, encryption, compression, etc.). I want to rotate videos I took, I don’t care about the processor who does that. If the product is not capable of doing so I will return it.
Apple does not overwhelm me with technical specs. They offer those features I need to proceed my daily private leisure time tasks. In 95% of my cases I probably don’t need to care about “RAM” or “Lidar”, unless I experience some downsides. I am willing to pay for a higher price tag to enhance my system if everything else “around” that system eases my daily life. And no, I am not willing to pay a ridiculous higher price tag like that monitor stand. Yes, there are some customers out there buying those products. No, they are not the majority.
You are contradicting yourself when you say you are willing to pay higher price to enhance your system. If you don’t understand what you are paying how do you know you are upgrading. Everyone seems to be focusing on that monitor stand as an example of Apple = expensive, when in fact everything is more expensive for no other reason than to milk your loyalty and habits.
I also disagree with the whole differentiation between user and tech person. Of course there are people who care about numbers more than they should, but in general you should care about what you are buying. If you go to buy a washing machine you don’t go and point finger and black and say I want this one. You check the amount of clothes it can take, you check if there’s a program you need. Same with buying literally anything. Is it a smart TV or not, how big is it? Are these shoes water proof or not? Etc. You don’t go on saying “as a walker and not a mountain climber I don’t care about shoe specs”. Of course you do. At least to a degree.
And let me tell you, as a user and not a tech person, 99% of your daily life problems is solved with literally any laptop, PC or phone out there right now. What you are looking for is style over substance. For something to look pretty and to be part of a group which has a habit of praising themselves for their choices. Problem is, you all live in a bubble now and think no other manufacturer can produce quality and looks at the same time. Which is wrong but distortion field is strong.
Want to prove me wrong? Next time you want to go buy a phone or a laptop or a car… just ask for random one. Since you don’t care about specs, screen size shouldn’t be the problem, nor storage space. Funny how not caring about specs but when buying a new device it’s never the last years model.
If you don’t understand what you are paying how do you know you are upgrading.
I am fully aware of what I am paying for. I pay for more convenience in my life and for that I don’t need I don’t want to understand everything underneath the surface. I want to take photos, maybe in bad lighting. For that I don’t want to read a manual, buy some extra equipment, take some sort of classes, etc. I don’t care about the underlying technology (long-time exposure, lense-shift, AI-stuff, etc.)
but in general you should care about what you are buying. If you go to buy a washing machine you don’t go and point finger and black and say I want this one.
Of course not. I also check the programs what the product is capable of and how it eases my daily life. Therefore I don’t need to know the material the barrel is made of, how many holes it has and if the water flows counterclockwise or not.
99% of your daily life problems is solved with literally any laptop, PC or phone out there right now.
Sure, but within the Apple world there is no initial setup or tweaking required. Set the default browser on a Windows PC to Chrome? Windows: “I sometimes don’t care”. Attach two external monitors to a Windows PC? Lottery game, which one is left and right. Close the laptop in the same setting? Windows will ask you for your fingerprint to log in. I have encountered so so many absurd situations within the Windows world. Yes, maybe some Linux distro might be better, but just ask your neighbor two doors further to install it all on her own and I bet you she will fail.
What you are looking for is style over substance.
This mindset is the exact problem 80% of tec-savy people why there are still so many products that fail miserably in usability tests. No, they are NOT looking for “stylish” products (maybe some are, yes, but not the majority) but for products they can actually use without the need of taking care of them like a child (“I need an app to find those apps that drain my RAM on my Android device”.) or needing to take evening classes to sync contacts between phone and laptop. Sorry to say, but declassing these customers as blatant sheep, thinking they run for style only is condescending.
They don’t literally mean a logo in this case they essentially mean don’t buy a brand because of the brand but something because it’s good and worthwhile.
You do realize that for 500$+ you can safely enter audiophile territory with significantly higher quality and noise canceling. Not everyone is gullible to believe Apple makes best and for some people bare minimum would do just fine. For fucks sake you can get bone conducting bluetooth headphones for swimming at around 150$. Not to mention Sennheiser HD600 is in 300$ range, which is … so much better than anything Apple will ever produce.
But the huhduh 600 have no anc, and require a dac to carry them around.
The maxes are ridiculously overpriced but other than that they are great headphones with a really low number of direct competitors (being good sounding wireless headphones with noise cancelling). In that regard im really happy with mine. They might be cheaper and lighter but the anc blows anything i tried out of the water and they sound great too (relative, so feel free to hate me for saying it, but a lot of people praised how they sound)
I am quite sure this is a legal issue. If they admit the mistake, probably customers in many countries would be allowed a free replacement or refund. And then shareholders would sue the company because it is mandatory to work on maximising profit.
Sad, but true. If a CEO is not maximising profit, then the shareholders can sue, and the board (who represent the shareholders) can replace the CEO.
I wish this structure had a longer term view so that a CEO can also do what’s right - such as make decisions that might lose money now, but have a greater long term value (where value is not only defined by share price, but also things like goodwill, reputation etc).
There’s nothing over-engineered in Apple products. They are the least amount of effort and maximum amount of polish to dazzle the masses so people think price is justified and give feeling of quality.
Throughout the history they have failed to fix common and known issues in generations of laptops. They chose cheaper version of aluminium which caused the bending of the phones. They reduced cost of manufacturing by removing a single drop of glue beneath a single chip which resulted in number of their plus sized phones to lose touch functionality.
Over-engineering would mean devices are robust, easy to repair and almost never need a repair. Apple is anything but that and their solution is usually to suggest buying a new device or charge you like you are buying a new device. All you need to do is see Louis’ video on repeated engineering failures from Apple. Granted it’s an old video, but if you watch the video you will see Apple doesn’t really improve quality, just reduce price.
not an apple product fan for sure ) see comment before
but if you take a look at the (of course overprized) mac pro i think the overengeneering is understandable … thats pure hardware porn, even the venting holes are drilled to reduce sound
as said i only own one apple “product” … the stock, because zhey have a crazy fanbase which will cultishly defend every messup … but the mac pro is a masterpiece of hardware
I’m an old Linux-head (actually started out developing tools for 10’s of variants of unix - compilation flags providing custom versions). I would love to have my mac mini running linux though, that would be awesome. I don’t think you can yet.
I actually have one right here sitting in front of me which was used to develop iOS application (as Apple forces you contractually to use Apple machines for, at the very least do the final build of an iOS app to push to their store) and I actually bought a lower specced model and upgraded the memory myself as that was the cheaper option.
However if I’m not mistaken the model generation after that (or maybe 2 generations) came with soldered memory.
Apple products are opposite of hardware porn. How can you call it as such when their solution for poor choice of solder compound, which resulted in GPU desoldering, was to glue piece of rubber which pushed on the GPU? How can you call it porn, when their SATA cables are constantly failing from 2011 models, constantly? How can you call it hardware porn when Apple cheaps out on single drop of glue to hold touch driver chip not to get broken resulting in Max series of phones massively dying after couple of years of use?
What you sound like is a victim of great marketing campaign.
nah friend … the opposite of a victim of marketing campaign … i don’t touch apple devices because of the walled garden they built and the prices they do
i was mainly talking about the mac pro’s case design and the modular setup … thats extremely appealing in my personal perspective.
i do not know if they stand the challange of time, but the mac pro for sure impressed me even if i get called a apple-hater in my personal circle of friends
so don’t mistake me for a fanboy - but i do pay respect for things which imoress me.
if you check my prev comment you’ll see that i especially point oit that they ask for crazy prices (monitor stand, mac pro wheels, thunderbold cable … god even the whipes carry something like 1000% apple tax) … still the mac pro case seems pretty cool to me
Then I apologize and strongly recommend you take a look at Framework laptop. That thing is truly modular to a point that you can upgrade CPU on a laptop, chose your own ports and repair pretty much everything. And machine comes in a metal body, very thing and lightweight.
i do know them … they even get a step further and are wirking on a “box” where you can use your mainboard if someday they offer an updated one for the laptop case, so you can use the old one for a server box or sth
i do like those as well … i just wanted to make my point that even for a company where i refuse to buy something from, there are some things which impress me
I think their engineering is pretty good, personally. I travelled a lot with a laptop from 2000 to about 2020, and my windows laptops would always die after 2 years - hinges, cracks in the body, screen cracks and so on. Moving to apple’s laptops in about 2011 meant I got 5 years out of each (air then a pro). I’m now on a second pro, but the old pro is still trucking along.
I’m not going to defend all their decisions, there’s a lot of questionable stuff in there (keyboards, sticking to lightening, mice…). But their hardware, both laptop, mini and pro) has been solid.
You are right about repairability. I think that has never been a key feature for them hence the glue, security screws and other crap. Fortunately there are governments around the world that are pushing for repairability, consistency with usb-c, replaceable batteries and more. So I think all manufacturers will be upping their game now, which is awesome.
All manufacturers reduce cost - supply chain management and manufacturability are the processes to drive that. Apple are really good at the supply chain side, that was Tim Cook’s focus as COO. What I don’t like is that they are able to keep their incredibly high margins (far higher than any other manufacturer) thanks to their software, interoperability and walled garden.
and my windows laptops would always die after 2 years - hinges, cracks in the body, screen cracks and so on. Moving to apple’s laptops in about 2011 meant I got 5 years out of each
I got sick of my Windows laptops falling apart tbh, needed a laptop that could actually handle being used as a laptop, and not destroy itself over time from heat cycling and excessively stiff hinges.
This ended up driving me to purchase a used Mid 2012 MBP (a1278) and running Linux on it because I’m not really a MacOS person.
Why this model? Replaceable RAM, replaceable battery, replaceable SSD, disk drive can be removed to make the machine lighter OR outright replaced with an additional SSD/hard drive.
Louis Rossmann has a gigantic library of repair videos for this model, which was another major contributor driving my decision.
I still use it today - it’s charging beside me with one of those USB C PD to Magsafe 1 adapters 😅
IIRC weren’t some of the peripheral drivers a bit dodgy.
Sadly some are, but neither are dealbreakers for me - the SD card slot runs at USB2.0 speeds most of the time, the Wifi driver has to be modified and recompiled to run on newer kernels. Aside from those I haven’t had any problems really.
I also swapped out my keyboard drivers for an alternative that turns the Eject button into a “delete” key, and swaps around two of the modifier keys for a more familiar layout.
I find it pretty neat that the caps lock light is programmable, and that the machine has an IR receiver!
In your case am afraid it is survivor bias. We are not talking about individual cases here. If you want to go case by case basis I have never had ThinkPad last fewer than 10 years. In fact I never had ThinkPad die on me. But they do break just like any other machine. Many of Apple’s laptops had issues when you used them too hard because they would blow hot air on glued parts or parts sensitive to heat shortening their life span. I strongly recommend watching video I’ve linked.
It could well be survivorship bias, but I did represent the examples as personal. Having said that - I did a quick google for « laptops with longest lifespan » and most of the reviews had apple at #1 or 2.
In common with you, most of my previous laptops (5 or 6) were thinkpads like yours, usually the tablet style for OneNote (which is awesome BTW). They never survived the rigours of the road. Perhaps that’s why I had a different result to yours - I used to travel 3-6 months a year.
I wouldn’t call their projects overengineered. They’re overdesigned.
That’s kinda the big difference between apple and everything else. Apple products are impeccablly designed with engineering and flexibility of use as an afterthought at best.
It’s why they’re often years behind on the actual tech, but have it implemented in a very clean, “pretty” manner.
Other companies get the tech out there and offer more flexibility for the power users, but they don’t have the polish off Apple products.
That's insane. I have the same Bose over-the-ear (I can't stand in-ear) headphones for years. They have been to the gym with me, jogging, and just existing in a humid, Tokyo summer for the last 5.5 years and have zero electronic issues. I did replace the exterior cushiony bit twice now, but the actual electronics are fine.
Do they block outside sound though? AirPods do and the trouble with that is you’re also trapping air in with your ears.
And the air being trapped close to your skin will inevitably be a different temperature to the air on the other side of the material. The temperature gradient creates condensation. It’s inevitable.
Assuming you want good sound isolation* the solution isn’t to avoid condensation, it’s to design it so the condensation forms somewhere that it doesn’t matter.
(* AirPods sound isolation is so good they have a microphone on the outside which, if it detects a fire/eathquake/etc evacuation siren, will replay that sound with the headphone speaker)
They have noise cancellation that works well enough for me (they have more advanced newer versions, but I see no reason to upgrade now). When I first tried my friend's before buying, I complained he ruined the world for me because I never knew how much background could be cut out, heh.
Yeah, the condensation is inevitable and does need to go somewhere. I don't know where it goes with mine, but the headphones keep on working.
Airpods have good ANC, but they're not magically better than things on the market. My 3 year old Sennheiser Momentum TW2s have better ANC, and cost $250 less.
I have a special interest in ANC over ear headphones for work and travel and do buy nearly every serious contender as soon as it becomes available (I have or had the BOSE QC35, QC35 II, 700, QC45, the SONY WH-1000XM3, XM4, and the AirPods Max. I‘ve yet to buy the XM5s). The AirPods ANC is far beyond the competition especially if it’s cancelling noises other than continuous rumbling like noise spikes, human voices and such. All of them are good or great at blocking background noises (even the original QC35 is still capable enough there), but the AirPods Max are far superior in unpredictable environments. This isn’t some magic BOSE or SONY are incapable of, this is just economics: Apple charges more than double the competition‘s prices, has special access to chips and isn’t just a scammy luxury company without serious RnD, but also has the resources and knowledge to develop outstanding software. This isn’t a judgement on the other factors though: the Max are heavy, their sound is borderline “Beatsy” (no surprise there, since they are probably related), they have nearly no external media control, the bag they come in and the way they are stowed makes them really unwieldy - and first thing you need to do if you receive them is tape over the little “SIM ejector”-like holes under their cushions as the article describes. Their superior ANC comes with a lot of costs attached.
Interesting. I no longer travel or commute as much as I used to so my QC35s are still perfectly OK for the occasions I do. Interesting to know about the others on the market.
Closed-back headphones and ANC are nothing new, and the Bose QC line (which I assume is what the previous commentator has), are indeed closed-back ANC headphones.
I found your attempts to explain somewhat condscending, and also feel like it's treating the Airpods like they're some revolutionary product, which they're not. Feel free to correct me if that was not your itention.
I’ve used Bose Quite Comfort (the I or the II, not sure anymore) in the trading floor of an Investment Bank (think fishmonger’s market but with financial assets) back in the late 00s to be able to do software development (which requires focus and concentration to do efficiently).
They most definitly block outside noise (still do, in fact, over a decade and 2 earcup replacements later).
Still work fine. Somehow the “condensation” “problem” was already solved a decade and a half ago.
Oh and even though noise-cancelling tech in headphones was near-bleeding edge back then, which is not at all now, they cost roughly half as much as these airpods which fail “due to condensation” (though inflation adjusted and using the higher GDPUSD cross-exchange rate from back then, it’s maybe only 2/3 as much)
I own a pair of QC35II’s as well, I’ll wear them in everything but the heaviest rain. Completely fine for 4 years now.
Only replaced the earmuffs once, 10 bucks for a 3rd party pair online that’s indistinguishable in terms of quality and actually came with a pretty cool looking coloured inside.
I’ve had some Bose Quiet Comfort (I think maybe it was the very first model, but might be the 2nd) for over a decade, with tons of use (for a while I did software development in the middle of a Trading Floor, think highly intellectual focus requiring work in the middle of a fishmonger’s market) and had to use those things all the time.
They’re all scratched on the outside by now (from going in and out of a backpack) and the ear cups were replaced twice.
Similar experiences with my Quiet Comforts II. I’m not using the shell it comes with, so it’s buffed a little, and had to replace the earcaps twice just because they get worn down in my backpack, but they work absolutely perfect.
Sure, the battery life isn’t as great as it was when I bought them in 2017 but for single-day usage they’re fine and I just give it a small micro-usb-powered pep-talk every night to use them the next day.
From your comment I think mine might be the QC 1, as mine just use normal AAA batteries and the battery life of mine can be “refreshed” by buying new rechargeable batteries ;)
I’m ready for the downvotes but I still don’t understand the general hate for the Magic Mouse. Once every two weeks I let it charge for 30 minutes while I’m having a lunch break and never have to worry about it.
How many times do you happen to need to charge your mouse and use it at the same time?
In the same boat as you. When I did use a Magic Mouse I’d just plug it in when I got up to go to the bathroom or get a drink, and not every time either. Never had the battery run out.
I stopped using it because the ergonomics don’t fit my hand very well.
Can’t be used wired out of the box but do support Lightning to 3.5mm jack. Source: owner of AirPods Max who’s had them replaced 4 times now due to faults.
Please - while connecting the cable to the bottom is less than ideal, it’s still var better than swapping out batteries.
It’s not like they need to be plugged in all day - if it dies on you, fill up your glass of water and you’ll be fine. Also low battery warnings appear weeks before it goes flat.
The fact that people would use it wired in 100% of the time is pretty much the reason of the bottom charge port. Apple doesn’t want their products to look cluttered with unnessesary cables
Yeah, but even the charging process seems so inelegant and crude visually compared to like the magnetic apple pencil charging. It’s surprising it’s an Apple design, since magnetic charging or some dock or mouse pad to have an excuse to up charge the product seems more the Apple way. Like if it didn’t have the Apple logo I would never have guess it was an Apple designed product, but a knock off.
It gets a multi day charge from a few minutes. Plug it in a go pee and it’ll have enough charge for the rest of the week.
It’s only your own fault of you ignore the multi week warnings that the battery is dying or you forget to plug it in to charge after your mini pee charge….
How much of a dickrider to you have to be to not understand that that's still incredibly stupid.
My mouse also gets ~5 days of (heavy) use from about 10 minutes of charging. Warnings or not, the fact that it's even a possibility is just shit design.
How is explaining how something actually works dickriding…?
And what model of mouse is that? Don’t forget about the weeks of warnings too!!!
You’re just claiming something to try and prove a point, but fact of the matter is, there isn’t another mouse out there lmfao. It’s not shit design, people just want to hate it, simple as that and you’ve proven the point by outright lying lmfao.
No, Apple didn’t want to design a charging cable specifically for the mouse. The charging cable is exactly the same as the ones for the trackpad, keyboard, iPad and iPhone. The cable would break to damn fast when used connected to a mouse.
It’s about parts supply management, not about the best mouse cable.
Even in that case there exists solutions, like making a deeper cutout for the port along with some attachment mechanism to lock cable movement, preventing the port from wearing out.
Up until today I spent my days thirsty, unable to leave my desk because my mouse batteries won’t die! But now, I know to buy the Magic Mouse and now I can leave my desk and enjoy more freedom
I’m sorry but that’s not the true. The battery is die all the sodding time.
When I worked in an office I used to switch the magic mouse off anytime I wasn’t actually using it. Going to the toilet switch the mouse off, going to get a drink switch the mouse off, somebody comes over to talk to me and I don’t need to use the computer switch the mouse off. All this just to extend the battery life.
I then replaced it with a generic Bluetooth mouse that uses one AA battery, and I’ve had it for over 2 years at this point and never needed to replace the AA battery. So either lithium ion has less storage capacity than a chemical battery or the magic mouse has a teeny tiny microscopic battery.
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