Lemmy.world announces blocking communities via Discord [update]

This is in regard to Lemmy.world blocking piracy communities from other instances. This post is not about whether you agree with the decision. It’s about how the admins informed their users.

A week ago Lemmy.world announced their Discord server. This wasn’t very well received (about 25% downvotes, which is rather bad compared to other announcements). The comments on that post were turned off, presumably to avoid backlash.

Before that, announcements about the instance used to be posted to !lemmyworld. This time, the information was posted on the Discord server instead.

I don’t agree with this. Having to use a proprietary platform to participate in an open-source one goes against the very purpose for me, especially when the new solution isn’t really an improvement (as before the information about the platform was closer to it).

Edit: Corrected the announcements community name.

Update: Lemmy.world finally released an announcement and promised they would inform about similar actions and gather feedback in advance in future.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

This whole situation is rubbing me the wrong way. I can understand the motives behind defederating even if I don’t agree but it’s been a day and the only announcement is still on Discord. Not ideal.

AndreyAsimow,
@AndreyAsimow@lemmy.world avatar

It would definitely make more sense to post the announcements on Lemmy rather than another discord server.

IMHO, Rather than dividing the stream of new information it would be better to focus on one platform.

Personally I dislike discord as the conversations there are too fast for me.

scytale,

Personally I dislike discord as the conversations there are too fast for me.

Same. I never really liked how it’s used for discussion purposes because the conversation format doesn’t work there, especially if tons of people are chatting at the same time.

kadu,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    bauhaus,
    @bauhaus@lemmy.ml avatar

    Matrix is a federated alternative to Discord that is both open source and highly concerned with user privacy. It’s also very popular here on Lemmy, and a lot of communities here use it. 

    s38b35M5,
    @s38b35M5@lemmy.world avatar

    Ruud decided matrix was too hard to use for this purpose and bailed a few weeks ago

    bauhaus,
    @bauhaus@lemmy.ml avatar

    too hard?? lmao

    HughJanus,

    It’s not hard to use but definitely doesn’t work well, in my experience.

    bauhaus,
    @bauhaus@lemmy.ml avatar

    it’s… different and takes some getting used to. it also depends on which client you choose to use.

    HughJanus,

    I prefer not to “get used to” a super slow service.

    bauhaus,
    @bauhaus@lemmy.ml avatar

    I haven’t experienced it being slow. that might depend on the client you’re using. fortunately, there are a few to choose from.

    Wollang,

    I have not heard of matrix till now. How does one join?

    God I feel like an old person always asking the younguns how to fediverse…

    bauhaus,
    @bauhaus@lemmy.ml avatar

    get started here by choosing a matrix client: matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/

    Wollang,

    Thank you!

    theneverfox,
    @theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

    Same idea as lemmy, you pick a server and join chatrooms on any federated server

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    I can tell you Governments are already investigating several federated servers including lemmy instances. I doubt LW wanted to deal with the European Union cracking down on copyright infringement. Users ate going to see a lot of instances shut down or blocked in the near future due to legal violations.

    gabe,

    Are they really? Do you have any sources for that? That’s a very lofty claim. I know some mastodon instances are likely to be, but Lemmy? with how new it is feels kind of far fetched

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Govt investigations rarely publish their finding until the parties in question are charged.

    gabe,

    Okay… then how in the hell do you know this then? I’m sorry, but this has real my dad works at Nintendo right now. Those are extremely serious claims.

    I’m sorry but it feels suspicious given the fact that the dude who is speculated to have started this was a troll.

    goddamnpipes,

    Sure, for a server as large and accessible as LW, Discord is a super useful, accessible platform. However, the Discord server should not be the only place that such an update is posted.

    Realistically, you can’t expect much of the LW userbase to see and engage with an announcement in a Discord server, compared to a post on [email protected].

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I agree 100%. If they are going to make an announcement about lemmy.world, they need to do it on lemmy.world. We’re not all on the Discord. I, for one, don’t want to be.

    Sentinian,
    @Sentinian@lemmy.one avatar

    Discord is not something that is easily indexable or linkable. Which means you have to rely on other people if you aren’t part of it. This is a huge issue as anything can be faked

    PeleSpirit,

    They absolutely should make announcements here, but I think it’s a matter of people attacking them all of the time. We have to give them a lot of credit for handling so many ddos attacks, someone really doesn’t want this place to exist. Imo, let’s give them a chance to talk about it and not make this a bigger deal than it is. This is a volunteer site and instance, not a billion dollar company so go easy.

    gabe,

    Its so weird how aggressive people are against lemmy. People don’t want this entire platform to exist, not just lemmy.world. Like lemmynsfw has had people try to suspend pretty much all their payment processors and hosts repeatedly

    PeleSpirit,

    I 100% agree. My conspiracy theory is that it isn’t reddit or the dude who was upset they banned him, but the people who paid reddit to handle narratives. Lemmy is breaking the PR system. Politics, technology, and also other big communities are taking off and that’s a no go. I could be wrong though, it could be one of the first two or a combo of all three.

    gabe,

    I think you underestimate just how bored people can be and how just innately some people are driven to just start shit for seemingly no reason. If there’s a good thing and a new idea to spring up, there’s always at least one person to try and wreck it for everyone.

    Granted though, if Reddit is paying someone to basically cause chaos here in some way it’s honestly kind of appreciated. Thank you kind strangers for stress testing the platform and making it more robust and encouraging other instance admins to coordinate with one another.

    https://literature.cafe/pictrs/image/4229d77b-2763-4c26-af08-0ae05f9c2cab.webm

    PeleSpirit,

    You may be right but I think you might be underestimating how much a threat Lemmy is to a lot of huge companies. Journalists and/or people who work for politicians would get a lot of info and spread info at reddit. I’m sure technology has people like that too.

    gabe,

    Oh no, I do think it’s a huge threat. The fediverse in its entirety is horrifying to so many large companies. That’s why facebook is desperate to try and step into the fediverse and is getting more and more pissed off as people are going “nuh uh!”

    Mastodon is good, but lemmy does have the most potential out of most fediverse projects to become truly really really big if done right. It’s like activitypub was made for this kind of platform. Having to just pull entire communities rather than specific users is a big step up from mastodon and reduces the complexity that bars a lot of people from joining mastodon

    HughJanus,

    I don’t understand what one thing has to do with the other.

    No one should voice their concerns with the direction of the instance? Everyone should just be silent because the community is run by volunteers?

    infyrin,
    @infyrin@lemmy.world avatar

    someone really doesn’t want this place to exist.

    I suspect very spiteful Reddit users and probably now the newfound enemies that are made from blocking the piracy community.

    BrianTheeBiscuiteer,

    Or secondarily I’d say Mastodon. They have an account but never post anything there.

    KazuyaDarklight,
    @KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah seems like the mastodon account would make a lot of sense as a kind of quick and dirty feed of information, particularly when it comes to stuff that’s less “announcement” oriented. Like up down or performance issue statuses and the like.

    GBU_28,

    How would they make a post about a lemmy.world outage on lemmy.world

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    It wasn’t about an outage.

    GBU_28,

    One of the original intentions of posting somewhere else was about outages.

    Something like “we are down so much come read about it live over at …”

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Okay, but that’s not what this is about.

    GBU_28,

    “why did lemmy.world mods start posting things to a discord group?” Is the implied point of the thread we are in.

    Acknowledged that THIS post by them was regarding defederating the piracy group.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No, that is not the implied point. This is specifically about announcing blocking communities and instances. No one expects lemmy.world to announce it’s down on itself.

    GBU_28,

    Hence they created a discord to provide up to the moment updates on features/changes of lemmy.world.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You really don’t get this and I’m not going to spend any more time holding your hand through it.

    GBU_28,

    Bro,

    Discord created to provide up to the moment outage/stability updates.

    Discord used in this instance to provide up to the moment defederation updates.

    It’s like, mostly the same words.

    I acknowledged the use case is different and explained the reasoning they chose that platform.

    Simple stuff.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You still don’t get it. You clearly don’t want to. But your ego-stroking has been noted.

    GBU_28,

    Don’t act like you’re some dominant figure here, it’s very toxic.

    we disagree, and you are purposefully pretending I’m typing in wingdings or something.

    Lemmy does not provide what they needed, and they justified their actions. If people don’t like it, that’s fine, but to suggest they mindlessly acted is purposefully missing the point because people aren’t happy with them.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t act like you’re some dominant figure here, it’s very toxic.

    What are you even talking about now? I didn’t even bother reading the rest because that’s such a bizarre thing to say that I couldn’t keep going. What long-lost blocked-up crevice did you pull that out of?

    GBU_28,

    Literally a response to your words where you suggest I’m taking some ridiculous off the wall action, behavior which you repeat here.

    Cya

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    What? I didn’t suggest any such thing. What a bizarre lie.

    Pacers31Colts18,

    They tried to. It was down at the time though.

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    A single community was blocked due to a legal issue. It can be unblocked once the legal ramifications are resolved.

    anti_antidote,

    Not all of us are simps for media conglomerates and publishers

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    So you want servers shut down and admins arrested?

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    Legal ramifications in what way? And do we know that there was a dialog about this with the community mods? The one I looked at has rules against directly linking to infringing content, so it seem-- at least from where I’m sitting-- that blocking would not be an appropriate first step, instead opening a dialog with the mods/admins to moderate any offending content.

    And, in case it needs saying-- US copyright law is not global copyright law, and discussing copyright infringement is not illegal.

    Though, more to the point, this kind of poor communication-- if not the actions themselves-- makes me wonder if I should move to a new instance. I don’t want to, but I also don’t want admins making decisions without communicating them to the userbase, whether I personally agree with the decision or not. It certainly doesn’t give the impression of transparency.

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    The image cache on the LW server is a likely reason for the legal issues.

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I truly don’t mean to be dense, but I don’t follow. We’re talking about piracy, right? What images are of concern there, and why does the first step to resolving it have to be blocking instead of communication?

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Federated servers are cached on other Federated servers. That is how you can see LW on another instance even when it is being DDOSed. It looks like LW removed the cache for that one community and blocked it from being saved on their server.

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I get that, but what images would be of concern in a piracy-focused community?

    Black_Gulaman,
    @Black_Gulaman@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Apparently this.

    scytale,

    I believe it’s not images in particular but the overall cached content from the community on .world servers. Since lemmy works by caching content so you browse that content on your home instance instead of the actual source instance where the community resides, your instance may be liable for “hosting” that content. So anything posted there like direct torrent links or whatever will also be on .world servers. Of course the piracy communities have rules that forbid direct sharing of files and links, so maybe they’re just being overly cautious in case mods/admins aren’t quick with enforcing community rules.

    I’m not defending them, just attempting to explain their (probable) rationale.

    db0,
    @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    There wasn’t any specific legal issue from what I know. This was triggered by a butthurt transphobic troll who got banned in lemmy.dbzer0.com and then opened the call to defed. Then lemmy.world preemptively blocked the pirate communities, just in case

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    For me, it’s not that the community was blocked. That is the prerogative of lemmy.world admins. My problem is it wasn’t announced here, it was only announced on Discord. That feels like they don’t respect us as users of their community unless we’re that deeply invested.

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    It wasn’t announced anywhere. I’d wait and see what is announced. If the admins were served they might not legally be able to talk about it yet.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    OP claims the opposite.

    YoBuckStopsHere,
    @YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

    Anyone that has seen this discord post knows there is a lot more to it than what was posted here.

    hypelightfly,

    That's not the issue op is discussing. At least read their post before commenting.

    Carighan,
    @Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m really not happy with using Discord at all for any organisation open to outside users. We got Lemmy for posts about, well, Lemmy. We got something like Mastodon for external updates.

    Use what is there.

    Excrubulent, (edited )
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    Also there is Matrix as a direct federated replacement for discord. No reason not to use it.

    EDIT: After doing a bit more digging, it’s not running on activitypub so not compatible wit the fediverse, but it does run on a federated model.

    Although given that both are open protocols, it should in theory be possible to write an adaptor or an update to make them compatible.

    EDIT 2: nope lol

    Edit 3: idk why I let myself be mislead and I don’t remember what I looked up, but Matrix specifically says it is federated: spec.matrix.org/latest/

    kobra,

    With Matrix (at least as far as I understand), if you aren’t logged in when the message is posted you can’t actually decrypt it. I think Matrix would actually be worse than Discord for an announcement like this.

    Excrubulent,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    That sounds broken to the point of absurdity. Where did you hear that?

    kobra,

    I didn’t hear it, I experienced it. /shrug

    Madbrad200,

    That’s also how IRC works and most chat platforms are heavily inspired by IRC, unless you use a program (bouncer) that kept you online 24/7. I assume there must be something similar for Matrix

    One of many reasons people left IRC for Discord.

    sure,

    I think OP is mixing up IRC and Matrix. IRC indeed does require you to be online to receive messages (but there are ways around that), but matrix loads your messages offline just fine.

    Checked it now and I have 3k unread messages on the lemmy support chart.

    Efwis,

    This is wrong. I’m on matrix both on my computer and phone. If I’m not logged in, and conversations are made during that time I can log in and it decrypts all the messages letting you pick up where you left off.

    kobra,

    Not sure what I did wrong then but that was my experience

    Efwis,

    It might have something to do with the channel admin, I’m not sure as I don’t run my own matrix channel, I only know that’s how it works for me. Also the only encrypted channel that I see on my matrix account is the dm’s. The regular channels I’m on are not encrypted and it states as much in the text bar where you type

    russjr08,
    @russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net avatar

    It’s possible that the Matrix server you were on was/is having issues then. I’ve been running my own instance for over two years now and have not experienced this. I can even login to a new device, verify my session, and then view the history for every channel I’ve ever been in (encrypted or not).

    Efwis,

    Just recently started using it. This is the way it has worked since I started. And that just in the last 2 months

    ominouslemon,

    Matrix is not part of the fediverse. I don’t know where people got this idea, but I keep seeing it mentioned on Lemmy. It’s just a decentralized messaging software

    Excrubulent, (edited )
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    After looking into it, it is federated but not activitypub, so it may not technically be part of the fediverse.

    Edit: i did a bad job researching this, but this is true to the best of my knowledge.

    ominouslemon,

    It’s decentralized, not federated. They are slightly different concepts

    ColonelPanic,

    It is federated though? It’s literally the first sentence in their specification: spec.matrix.org/latest/

    Excrubulent,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    Okay that’s a better source than whatever I was reading. I should get off the internet for now. I am too tired.

    Fantomas,

    It’s BS to not announce, on lemmy.world something that affects lemmy.world.

    Be open and transparent.

    I don’t like that you blocked the piracy communities but I recognise that you see a reason to do so.

    I’ve already begun migrating my subs to another instance because that’s the great thing about the fediverse - I can.

    If you want to be the big Lemmy instance with a lot of traffic then you’re going to have to protect yourself, I get it. But at least have the balls to announce your unpopular decisions.

    s38b35M5,
    @s38b35M5@lemmy.world avatar

    I happened to catch a message on Matrix from @ruud that he didn’t like the way mentions work when you’re offline and lots of messages build up, but I didn’t realize that meant discord was replacing matrix, especially for community notices.

    Add me to the list of folks who won’t use discord.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    The moment I learned about defederation, I made an account on an instance that didn’t do that.

    Here’s a website you can use to check what your instance is blocking.

    fba.ryona.agency

    grte,

    Alternatively if you scroll to the bottom page of any individual lemmy instance there should be a link called Instances which will take you to a page of all the instances yours is federated and defederated with.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Oh neat I didn’t know that.

    ziggurism,
    @ziggurism@lemmy.world avatar

    can you recommend a good instance with a no defederation policy?

    joe, (edited )
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    An instance with no defederation policy is going to end up exactly like an instance with no moderation policy. It’s going to become Voat or whatever the latest far-right website is these days.

    You might be better served to seek out an instance with a transparent defederation policy, and admins that use it as a tool of last resort, instead of first resort. I was, perhaps mistakenly, under the impression that lemmy.world fit that bill, but maybe not so much.

    gabe,

    It’s also likely to get into legal issue. I like sdf but the fact they aren’t defederating from the pedophile instance is really really bad.

    wahming,

    Which instance is that?

    gabe,

    Lemmy.sdf.org they are a very very very old internet tech focused community that’s been since the late 80s. They’ve been pretty much everywhere on the internet as it’s grown

    WldFyre,

    I think they meant which instance is the pedophile one haha

    wahming,

    I know what sdf is, what is the pedophile instance you’re referring to?

    gabe,

    Ah my bad. I don’t really feel comfortable saying their name completely openly because they are very aggressive to any and all people who point that out, but they allow loli/shotacon and attract a lot of open pedophiles. Wont say the name outright, but if you go to lemmy.world/instances and scroll down to “blocked” and look at the first one, that’s it. Do not go to that instance. I’m serious, the content they host is illegal in many jurisdictions.

    HughJanus,

    It’s going to become Voat or whatever the latest far-right website is these days.

    Not at all. I mean maybe if you only look at the local feed. But this is the Fediverse, I can still see every other instance.

    I don’t need anyone choosing for me what I should and should not see. I can (and do) do that myself, thank you.

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t need anyone choosing for me what I should and should not see. I can (and do) do that myself, thank you.

    I see this a lot, and first off, it’s not true at the instance level, for lemmy-- unless there’s a new option I didn’t see. Second, having to block someone that suggests you should die for your skin color, after reading the comment, is not without harm. There is value in preventing the speech from being seen at all, versus blocking people after the fact.

    It’s obviously a generalization, but generally the people who say “just block them” are also people that haven’t lived with systemic bigotry directed at them for their entire lives.

    And for the record, I don’t think piracy falls into this category of speech.

    HughJanus,

    it’s not true at the instance level, for lemmy-- unless there’s a new option I didn’t see

    I promise it is true. I’ve been doing it for months.

    Second, having to block someone that suggests you should die for your skin color, after reading the comment, is not without harm.

    Speak for yourself. Doesn’t harm me.

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I promise it is true. I’ve been doing it for months.

    How do you block a whole instance in Lemmy?

    HughJanus,

    Depends on your client

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Ah I think Connect allows it? Is there any other?

    HughJanus,

    Voyager

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I promise it is true. I’ve been doing it for months.

    You haven’t been blocking instances with Lemmy because that option doesn’t yet exist.

    Speak for yourself. Doesn’t harm me.

    What do you mean? Are you saying that because you aren’t affected that no one can be?

    HughJanus,

    You haven’t been blocking instances with Lemmy because that option doesn’t yet exist.

    Again, yes, I have.

    What do you mean? Are you saying that because you aren’t affected that no one can be?

    …no. I said the opposite of that.

    shodan5000,
    @shodan5000@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I know reading comprehension isn’t much valued in some political circles, but I didn’t say what you think I said, so I’m not sure you really mean “agreed”.

    Some moderation is required because an honest dialog cannot happen if all parties don’t feel safe. This is not the same as “no moderation”, but it’s also not the same as what you pretended I said, which is “heavy moderation”. I don’t understand why you think this discussion in any way translates to a government, but generally speaking, the US government has less ability to “censor” than a non-government entity.

    And, as I already alluded to, the result of lax moderation is bigotry and hate, every time. If I had to pick between heavy moderation or voat, and to be clear, I don’t have to make that choice because there is nuance allowed, then I’d pick heavy moderation over a site infested with redhats and the like.

    bilb,
    @bilb@lem.monster avatar

    This isn’t true, I think. You can have an instance that federates with nearly everyone but which still has a higher standard for behavior for its own users. This way, users on such an instance can see all the problematic instances but are not permitted to be problematic themselves. It’s an option.

    (Even still, I think you’d find yourself de-federating from someone eventually for spam or other technical reasons if not due to objections over content.)

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s a problem of scale. If you don’t defederate from a racist-focused instance (for example; hypothetically speaking), then you need to devote resources to moderating those users who make racist comments, as allowed by their instance, but directed at your users. Sure, you could do this, but it’s probably smarter to just defederate and save the resources for other uses. And no moderation team is going to be flawless, so racism will still creep in and be missed by the mod team.

    It might be a different story if users are given the tools to block entire instances (like kbin has) but even then I think the ROI would be low.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    That’s incorrect. Mods need to moderate the content hosted on their OWN instance. Not stop the people on their instance from having access to outside information.

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I think one of us doesn’t understand federation-- and to be clear, it might be me.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    This is my understanding:

    Every instance is like an email server and every account is like an email address. I’m [email protected] and you’re [email protected]. I think where people (and I used to) get confused is with how Communities play into this. Both of our instances have a “cats” community. And we both can see and post to each others “cats” communities. Our community could have a rule that also allows dogs, and your community could prohibit dogs. So, when you post you have to follow the rules of the community that you’re on, and those rules could be influenced by the instance admins themselves. So, kind of like how subreddits operate. So, the instance and the community moderators can control the content that is hosted on their own instance. So, you can have an instance that moderates only what’s happening on their own server, and that’s it.

    Now, if lemmy.world decides to de-federate from lemmy.sdf.org, then as far as you can see, the other “cats” community doesn’t exist, I don’t exist, I can’t communicate with you, and you can’t with me. And the only reason you would do this is to make the moderating job easier. If you want, you can disconnect from from every other lemmy instance and then you don’t have to worry about outside people coming in and having to also moderate what they say on your forum, but then it changes from being an open forum to just being a “friend group”.

    Also, I think the problem of “reddit supermods” is repeating. Lemmy.ml and lemmy.world are the two largest instances and at this point if they choose to de-federate from a smaller instance, it can basically kill that instance. And it can also be used to control the narrative. There are a few people making choices for many.

    You can block users and communities yourself. Go sort by “All” and start blocking everything you don’t want to see again. After a short time your feed will be cleared up.

    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I thought we were discussing defederation. You cannot block entire instances on lemmy, that I know of.

    Blocking a community does not block the users of the instance. The type of people that would naturally gravitate to, for example, a far right instance of lemmy.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I know you can’t block an instance as a user. I understand why you would want to. It would make things easier for us and I think it would be a good feature to add on the user side. Or perhaps an “opt in” to a block list that is kept by your instance.

    In my opinion, blocking the individual users and instance communities is good enough for now. If a problematic member of another instance starts causing trouble in a community on your instance, then I believe it’s the job of the moderators to block them if they’re breaking the community rules, and outside of that it’s my own job to block individuals I don’t like.

    CaptainAniki,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I apologize; I don’t know what you mean in relation to what I said. Do you mind elaborating?

    CaptainAniki,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    Copyright (not “copywrite”, btw) law is batshit insane, but somehow people believe it to be even worse than it is.

    Your browser makes copies of every image you see, but this doesn’t violate copyright law because it’s automatic and necessary for the browser to function. Does that sound familiar?

    Also, for like 2 decades the standard action is just a takedown request that threatens legal action if ignored.

    And to be clear, the admins had no actionable reason to block the piracy communities. They did it preemptively.

    CaptainAniki,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    And due to the nature of IP enforcement, once an object has been created that the copywrite holders could find objective, takedown enforcement becomes impossible when an object is more or less instantly shared across a hundred thousand instances.

    This is not correct.

    CaptainAniki,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    You might want to reconsider the iamverysmart routine since you couldn’t even spell copyright correctly one comment ago, yet I assume you expect me to believe you have some knowledge of the topic.

    However, your point is my point. There was no risk of a lawsuit; they’d just get a takedown notice.

    Though, now that I scroll up, what does this have to do with whether or not defederation is sometimes warranted? Did I get mixed up, or did you?

    CaptainAniki,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    joe,
    @joe@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t see how that is relevant.

    vlad76,
    @vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I don’t know if it’s their policy, but it’s against the spirit of the organization. This is where I’m at: lemmy.sdf.org

    I actually saw it on this list: github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instancesYou can look at their list and find instances that show 0,0 for BI,BB (blocked instances, blocked by).

    resketreke,
    @resketreke@kbin.social avatar

    Very reddit of them?

    1984,
    @1984@lemmy.today avatar

    Coins incoming! :)

    Just kidding. So much drama, needs some comic relief and this is all I had.

    sunaurus,
    @sunaurus@lemm.ee avatar

    I think Discord is great, as long as you account for its shortcomings:

    • It should be treated as ephemeral - up to the point of "the service could completely shut down tomorrow"
    • It should not be treated as fully private or secure

    I love how snappy it is (I never have to wait minutes for messages to load, as I do in Matrix), and also how there are a ton of Lemmy users who have Discord open in the background anyway. While I wouldn’t ever propose moving something like the main Lemmy communication channels to Discord, I do think it’s much easier to have IMs with regular Lemmy users on Discord than it is to do so on Matrix (as in my experience, most regular users do not have a Matrix client installed).

    By the way, lemm.ee also has a Discord server. It’s only treated as a secondary channel, all announcements are posted in our meta community on Lemmy itself, and just linked to from Discord, but it’s still nice to have IMO.

    mechatux,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    sunaurus,
    @sunaurus@lemm.ee avatar

    The problem at hand is not about the usability (UI/UX, performance, etc.) of Discord but rather it’s private, closed source for-profit existence being used as a “support” channel for a free and open (source, platform, communication) environment.

    I agree with you in principle, but on a pragmatic level, it’s very hard to disconnect UI/UX/performance from everything else. I think it’s OK to acknowledge that Discord has a weakness when it comes to not being OSS, but a strength when it comes to UX, and I also think it’s OK to take advantage of that strength for users that want to do so.

    Just to be fully clear, I am never planning to make Discord the main communication channel for lemm.ee announcements, nor to make users feel like it’s in any way necessary for them to use Discord just for lemm.ee communications. I am also active on Matrix constantly, and read most of what happens in the Lemmy Matrix channels. Any user that wishes to reach me over Matrix can do so.

    scytale,

    Just to be fully clear, I am never planning to make Discord the main communication channel for lemm.ee announcements, nor to make users feel like it’s in any way necessary for them to use Discord just for lemm.ee communications.

    Thank you! Not being a fan of discord aside, I believe announcements of a platform shoud be done on the platform itself, with the only exception being uptime/downtime status pages (obviously).

    gabe,

    The issue people are having is the announcement was made exclusively in lemmy.worlds discord server. Beehaw has a discord server as well, but they relay announcements to there, not from there usually

    maegul,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    And for those that don’t know (most of you probably do), this (sunarus) is the main/head/founding admin of lemm.ee (and, last I checked, a substantial contributor to the lemmy source code too).

    sunaurus,
    @sunaurus@lemm.ee avatar

    (and, last I checked, a substantial contributor to the lemmy source code too).

    I think not a substantial contributor yet, but I hope to become one eventually 😃

    Anafroj,

    as in my experience, most regular users do not have a Matrix client installed

    I understand your point, but by that logic, we should use Reddit rather than Lemmy, as most users are there. It’s not only about ease of use, it’s about being sure users won’t be abused. Discord is still in its acquisition phase, but you can be sure enshitification will come next.

    mog77a,

    I like discord as a communication platform (as long as you keep the spying in mind) as the devs truly believe in their product and as such have created something truly amazing. It will be a sad day when the enshitification phase begins. It somehow hasn’t yet which is very shocking in all honesty. Guess that nitro revenue still more than makes up for the dev and hosting costs.

    rageagainstmachines,

    I couldn’t agree more. We shouldn’t need to be somewhere else to receive announcements (especially such important ones).

    Not to mention Discord’s horrible record of privacy and security. I don’t have an account and will never make one, and I’m sure many others in the fediverse will agree.

    I actually just tested out the account making process, and I got asked for my phone number. No. Way.

    We’re here because we care about a decentralized, open network. Aside from its confusing and busy UX, it’s not even indexable. Discord is literally a black hole for information and terrible for everyone except for Discord itself, who is doing who knows what with all of our data.

    Discord is everything the fediverse stands against.

    masterairmagic,

    I left lemmy.world because they were doing nonsense like this. I recommend to others doing the same.

    Anafroj,

    Thanks for raising the issue.

    Most probably, people who made that decision are not aware of the implications and made that choice in good faith, so it’s worth giving reasons why you want them to avoid proprietary software, rather than just frowning at them.

    To the admins of lemmy.world and anyone who feels confuse about why this is an issue : it is about freedom. You all know how Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc are turning ugly, and you can’t do anything about it. With FOSS (Free and Open Source Software), when it turns ugly, you can do something about it. You (or any technical person who agrees with you) can take the code and go your own way with it (we call that “forking”). No decision of the authors can be forced upon you. Similarly, if you think something is not working right, you can fix it yourself, and send the changes to the maintainers of the code, who usually are happy to get some help. So it’s also about freedom of fixing your own problems, instead of waiting and praying the authors do something about it.

    And this is the whole spirit of the Fediverse : taking matters in our own hands instead of being betrayed once more by a company which decides that their bottom line requires to be user hostile. One day, this will happen to Discord to, it always ends up there. That’s why people using Lemmy who are aware of those problems are not happy with seeing lemmy.world use Discord.

    Thanks to the admins of lemmy.world for all the work they provide to the Fediverse.

    rapscallion,

    Even assuming my ancient Discord login still works (didn’t they make everyone change their names or something? idk if that affects accounts) it doesn’t look like you can use it on a phone without downloading the app, and I’m not doing that just to check for Lemmy announcements. Discuss controversial decisions there if you have to, but announce them here first.

    esty,
    @esty@lemmy.ca avatar

    There actually is a mobile web version, if you go to discord.com/app

    They don’t advertise this anywhere

    rapscallion,

    Ah, that’s good to know. Thanks.

    navi,
    @navi@lemmy.tespia.org avatar

    You can use the web app on phone but it’s a pain in the ass to get to without it redirecting you to the app/app store.

    rDrDr,

    There’s admin drama now. Oh boy Lemmy really is busy like reddit.

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