Lemmy developer, @SleeplessOne1917, argues for the killing of Israeli civilians and children

In the recent Lemmy developer update, there’s a reference to one Lemmy developer, SleeplessOne1917.

I found some horrifying comments from this user.

lemmygrad.ml/comment/2649200 - “There is no such thing as an Israeli civilian. All settlers are valid targets.”

lemmygrad.ml/comment/2649472 - “15 year olds are military age. That makes them valid targets for killing.”

lemmygrad.ml/comment/2649732 - “… There is no such thing as a zionoid civilian. Everything that moves and isn’t Palestinian is a valid target. …”

Webarchive: web.archive.org/…/[email protected]

Edit: New comment from the user “Cry more. Israelis need to be eliminated. Death to Israel, and death to Amerikkka!”

web.archive.org/web/20231009171510/…/2592588

web.archive.org/web/20231009171739/…/750810

web.archive.org/web/20231009171907/…/4569805

web.archive.org/web/20231009172817/…/4413706

github.com/SleeplessOne1917

Flax_vert,

I thought we were already aware that the devs are deranged lmao

Railcar8095,

*hexbears: that’s why I’m here

jeffhykin,

I mean yeah, but I do like knowing who and in what way.

Kofu,
@Kofu@lemmy.ml avatar

Lemmygrad and hexbear serve as a propaganda wing of for people that make being communist their whole life. You can block certain feds to clear out your feed.

I wouldn’t get riled up about it, they literaly say stuff to upset you so you react.

shikogo,

How do I block an entire instance?

Kofu,
@Kofu@lemmy.ml avatar

So I use Jebora on my android phone and if I go directly onto communities front page and a 3 dot icon on the top right side of the page it will say in the options 'block community" might have to block individually but there ain’t that many large communities that will have such a loud voice.

weeahnn,
@weeahnn@lemmy.world avatar

right now you can only block communities. if everything goes according to plan, instance block should arrive with the next update, which is supposedly 1 month away.

redcalcium,

IIRC the next Lemmy update will have this feature.

awwwyissss,

Lemmy.ml isn’t much better.

Kofu,
@Kofu@lemmy.ml avatar

The Internet is not safe, just got wade through the shit to make it to something good them make a path toward it by getting rid of the noise.

GONADS125,

All the drama and hateful trolls are extremely similar to the growing pains of reddit 15 years ago. The rational healthy users outnumber the hateful crazies, and that trend will continue as the userbase grows.

I hope…

awwwyissss,

I hope so too but I’m not optimistic. I was on Reddit before most people and it didn’t have anywhere this level of authoritarian propaganda.

awwwyissss,

I don’t expect it to be safe, and I do expect to fight against authoritarian propaganda when I see it.

Eldritch,

It’s world’s better. But still chick full of Leninist. So still problematic because of that. On the whole though they don’t brigade like hexbear or lemmygrad. Hell a large swath of their users are ironically not leninists even. However, when you do find one that is Leninist yeah you’re gonna get toxic irrationality. But no worse than your average capitalist or neo-libertarian.

awwwyissss,

I just had several calm, rational comments deleted with no reason given. I can only assume it’s because I was correcting a lie that made the CCP look better. A bunch of other people’s comments got deleted in the same thread.

In other words, lemmy.ml had strict censorship in order to support an authoritarian government. It’s a cancer on the Fediverse.

clueless_stoner,
@clueless_stoner@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s keep in mind this doesn’t really mean anything for Lemmy instances. It is open source.

Ghostalmedia, (edited )
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

True, but there are not very many people contributing a lot of code, so this guy has a lot of sway over which items get prioritized out of the massive backlog.

And as a mod, I’d really like the few people coding to produce some expanded moderation tools… so I can easily spot and address toxic comments like the ones this dev makes.

IMHO, this guy’s behavior feels like it conflicts with his current influence over Lemmy’s mod toolset.

Edit: typos

Ategon, (edited )
@Ategon@programming.dev avatar

Ive been working on a soft fork of lemmy called Pangora to prioritize development on different areas that the main lemmy codebase has been neglecting (such as mod tools). Gives a different option than the main lemmy codebase for supporting development and as redundancy for if anything goes wrong (although not production ready atm as its still getting mostly set up) !pangora

antik,
@antik@lemmy.world avatar

👀

spaduf,

Really glad this exists. Thanks for all your work.

Spzi,

Stories like these can make it less likely that other people contribute to the code, making the platform grow slower, which affects all instances.

onlinepersona,

This is difficult. I don’t contribute code yet, but knowing that these kind of people might have a say in the development of Lemmy, I’m not sure I want to contribute. Maybe !pangora will be more welcoming… dunno.

jeffhykin,

Pease consider the opposite; if a fork is needed at some point in the future, we need people who are familiar with the codebase. It would be, for example, much better for 3 of 4 contributors to be sane than only 2 of 3.

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

Idc about his political views. I’m still thankful he is talking the time to working on developing lemmy.

Right now there’s a million spicy takes on this conflict.

Duke_Nukem_1990,

Would you feel the same if he supported nazis putting jewish people into gas chambers?

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

I’m sure some of the Foss software I use has had nazis contribute. It doesn’t worry me what a random non political figure says on the internet.

Duke_Nukem_1990,

Nice job dodging my question bozo.

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

That’s not dodging your question. I answered that I don’t care. Actual nazi’s have made contributions to some of the technology we use today and you aren’t kicking up a stink about that.

HuddaBudda,
@HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.

I imagine you look into someone's life deep enough, there is eventually something you are going to disagree ethically about.

I think that is why it is important to have the conversation, rather then pretend the issue doesn't exist. Because that is what Israel has been doing for 20 years. It is also why the people of Israel and Palestine have bodies in the streets.

This is 20 years of inaction boiling over into one single event. We either learn the lesson, or continue in ignorance.

DogMuffins,

Good God man.

Just because there are competing perspectives does not mean that all perspectives are equally appropriate.

Just because someone does something that benefits you personally does not give them a free pass for being a fuck head

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

He made the comment on an instance that supports that kind of extreme speech. The comment was appropriate in the place that he made it. I don’t care if someone’s a fuck head its not a big deal to me.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I for one would prefer that the dev of the tools I use doesn’t celebrate the deaths of children just because of where they happened to be born. Calling that just a “spicy take” is ridiculous.

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

That’s a fine opinion to have.

twistypencil,

Let’s read it correctly, instead of distorting it. The quotes above argued that 15yr Olds are valid targets, not celebrating their death and not all all children. I realize the difference doesn’t matter much, but in discussion is better to be clear

threegnomes,

“Everything that moves”

bappity,
@bappity@lemmy.world avatar

this is not just some “political views” or a “spicy take” this is someone advocating for the murder of a group of people. you can’t just centrist your way out of this

ExLisper,

Personally, I would accept a PR from a convicted murderer if the code was good. It would be a problem I would have to have meetings with this person but if he just submits code why would I care? There are no political opinions in code. It’s not like code written by a rapist somehow pollutes my codebase.

GeneralVincent,

Yeah the code might be fine. But if I want to support the development of Lemmy, say with a donation, am I financially supporting a piece of shit?

I’m not saying every contributor has to be thoroughly vetted, or that I have to agree politically with every contributor. It just feels icky, and I get the concern users have.

GONADS125, (edited )

I donate to Lemmy.world but that doesn’t go to this Lemmy dev in question, only Ruud and his team. You can donate to specific instance admins who aren’t batshit crazy hateful scumbags and support the growth of healthy instances.

ExLisper,

Interesting point. Well, if it’s up to me I would even share the donations with this piece of shit. Because what do you mean by “supporting him”? Letting him earn some money by doing work? What’s the alternative? Letting him starve to death? Personally I’m against death penalty so I do believe that even the worst piece of shit has the right to work and earn living. And frankly, writing code seams to be perfect way for such a person to do it: they are not around other people so no one is in danger and they are not spreading his sick opinions. And people like this earning their living are better than society maintaining them out of our taxes.

It absolutely does not make anything ‘icky’, it’s a silly way to look at it, childish really. If a convicted murder bags your groceries is your food icky? If a child rapist cleans your street is the street icky?

And here we’re not talking about murder or rape, just some online posts. Opinions don’t taint code. I know people like to cancel everyone now but this is really getting absurd. The only “concern” users have is a concern that this week they didn’t get outraged enough and didn’t cancel enough people.

kglitch,

Code does not exist in isolation from the community of developers that produced it. Who we collaborate with defines us, to some degree.

ExLisper,

Code is completely separate from the community. Community is formed by people and code is just bunch of instructions. What if a fascist forks your projects and adds features to it? It your code fascists now? Does your community support fascists? Of course not. And if a fascist submits a patch to your project and you accept it it does not mean you’re collaborating with fascists now and your projects is tainted. That’s just absurd. “You’re a bad person so I will not merge this bugfix, I will write the exact same fix by myself so that my code stays pure”.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

How about we stop both sides from killing people considering it’s been going on for hundreds of years and nothing has changed.

52fighters,
@52fighters@kbin.social avatar

This conflict doesn't exist in isolation. This is part of a larger geo-political struggle with the decline of US influence in the region being taken-up by Iran. Much of this could have been avoided if the US never invaded Iraq. If only I had a time machine...

bioemerl,

Much of this could have been avoided if the US never invaded Iraq. If only I had a time machine...

Ehh. Lots of problems could be fixed by that, but not really this one.

52fighters,
@52fighters@kbin.social avatar

Hamas doesn't have the capacity without Iran. Iran has occupied a power vacuum created by the US from the US policy in that region.

NotAPenguin,

The Lemmy devs are tankies, they also deny chinese human rights violations and deny genocides.

EmhyrVarEmreis,

deleted_by_author

    •
    NotAPenguin,

    It's not something I think, it's a fact.

    I'm already on kbin :)

    GONADS125,

    Why should they tuck their tail instead of calling out the narrow-minded hateful idiots? They’re a sad little fringe minority.

    puppy,

    Did you just ask a Kbin user to delete their Lemmy account? LOL

    EmhyrVarEmreis, (edited )

    Block lemmy and move on. -6000 points? Holy shit

    Blamemeta,

    You know, I came to lemmy because I was disgusted with the reddit admins and devs. And this shit just is not helping.

    TORFdot0,

    For the most part, Lemmy instances are separate from the developers. But the great thing about ActivityPub and the fediverse is that we can move platforms and keep the same content. Kbin can subscribe to the same communities that Lemmy can.

    Chariotwheel,

    Yeah, this is one of the best parts of the fediverse. It's not just another plattform like Reddit. It's a bunch of Plattforms of various services, even Lemmy is just hundreds of small Reddits that connect to each other. Meaning we are not beholden to one person like on Reddit to participate in the fediverse.

    520,

    Understand that the Lemmy devs do not have ultimate power over your instance, and that your instance admins may feel very differently to them

    bioemerl,

    Switch to kbin!

    TokyoMonsterTrucker, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    p03locke, (edited )
    @p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    OP user joined two hours ago, and this subject is literally the only thing OP has posted about, on four different forums.

    Is it too much to ask for minimum requirements for posting in a community?

    TWeaK,

    The difference here is that these people aren’t really running the show. They’re in charge of the main development branch, but that’s just back end code, and it is (or should be) reviewed by every admin when they use it to implement their instance. Development can be adopted or forked by other people, should politics get in the way.

    It’s the morals of your own instance and its admin that are most important, these are the ones synonymous with reddit’s staff. In fact, it’s possible for the instance to put whatever code they want up. It can easily be non-standard to official lemmy, so you really are trusting them rather than the main lemmy devs.

    JubilantJaguar,

    IMO believing that someone’s work can become tainted by their beliefs is a form of magical thinking.

    djquadratic,
    @djquadratic@kbin.social avatar

    Unfortunately this is a very classic far leftist take. Easy to blindly justify a cause you’ve been told to believe in when you simply dehumanize what you’ve been told are the villains

    JungleJim,

    Seriously? Unlike all the warm supportive right wing dehumanization. That person is sick. They’d be sick on either side of the aisle. Making this a left/right thing is small of you. I don’t know you so I didn’t expect better, but in a general sense I hoped people were better than what you’ve demonstrated here.

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever,

    No. It is horseshoe theory.

    Left or right, the extremists are generally extremely prone to manipulation

    djquadratic,
    @djquadratic@kbin.social avatar

    yeah I was talking about leftist extremists. not sure how the term "far leftist" was interpreted as all leftist

    JungleJim,

    If it was horseshoe theory they meant to discuss there would have been no need for them to say “This is classic far left”. They would have said “This is classic extremism”.

    I’m not sure how valid horseshoe theory is in the first place.

    djquadratic,
    @djquadratic@kbin.social avatar

    👍

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever,

    In terms of the written definition (and I am not even sure where that would come from considering it is a spectrum affected by a shifting overton window…), sure. But considering how much of online discourse is impacted by tankie influencers… meh

    Its similar to (US) republicans where they have more or less become synonymous with the qanon crowd. That is not to say that they are all part of the qop, but they sure let them do the speaking for them.

    Personally? I try to make it a point to use pejoratives like “tankies”. In part because I know people are stupid and will view even that as me saying “all leftists” (which is funny since, while I tend to identify more as a “liberal”, I am very much on that spectrum). But language evolves and a lot of the figureheads for (at least American, although I have seen some dumbfuck Europeans) Leftist movements tend to be blatant tankies and they don’t get the pushback because “they are increasing awareness”

    JungleJim,

    This started as an edit to my comment but became more a comment of it’s own:

    Edit: I think you may be edited your comment? The bit you added sounds like a reasonable assessment, that anyone more extreme in their beliefs is more prone to manipulation, likely due to the fact their desire for change may override “common sense” as we might call it.

    puppy, (edited )

    If you go far enough you wouldn’t be able tell a far leftist from a far right winger. Because they are the same person. There’s no “classic left” about it.

    There has been genocides in the past from both sides. One indicator that a faction is going unhinged is that they become authoritarian. They start seeing in black and white and loose their humanity. This can be observed in both left and right. The massacres from the left are brought up all the time, so I’ll bring one up by the right to make it balanced. Don’t forget that the US dropped 2 nuclear bombs on civilians.

    amio,

    Welp. This has been an education in how deranged this place is.

    puppy,

    This place we are on right now is lemmy.ca. What does it say about it?

    TokyoMonsterTrucker, (edited )

    There is no indication whatsoever that @SleeplessOne1917 is the same person as @cannotsleep420. Jesus, people, stop pissing yourselves for the literal 30 seconds it took to fact check this bullshit claim.

    *edit: I took the liberty of finding the actual dev’s account: /u/[email protected]. It took a whole additional minute. You’re welcome

    *edit 2: /u/[email protected] has some links below that do indeed link /u/[email protected] to /u/[email protected]. Soooo, while I don’t regret my nearly infinite capacity for skepticism, but it looks like this story has some legs. Hat tip to NOT_RICK, who is adamantly not Rick.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    You might want to reinvestigate. @cannotsleep420 is the one that made those comments and they are a dev.

    TokyoMonsterTrucker,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    I understand that. @cannotsleep420 is still in that Lemmy update thread mentioning development to-dos.

    TokyoMonsterTrucker, (edited )

    Feel free to share that thread link. In the meantime, here’s the actual dev account: /u/[email protected]. And their selfless unpaid work removing pedos from find-lemmy: lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/3630011

    NOT_RICK, (edited )
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah they don’t use that account. It’s pretty clear to me they’re active on their lemmygrad account over the lemmy.ml one.

    Here they are mentioning dev work:

    lemmy.ml/comment/4413706

    lemmy.ml/comment/4569805

    lemmygrad.ml/post/750810

    TokyoMonsterTrucker,

    I deleted my previous response as it was a bit dickish. I stand corrected, this is pretty strong evidence.

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    All good, I’ve gone after people too hard too (got a mean comment deleted yesterday in fact, I was definitely wrong). It’s good to have scruples

    TokyoMonsterTrucker,

    It’s a little too easy to be mean on the internet. Human nature, I guess, when you can’t see who you’re talking to.

    net00,

    @SleeplessOne1917 seems to be their GitHub handle. You can see this by going to one of the pull requests that are linked in the thread (e.g instance block feature)

    @cannotsleep420 seems to be their lemmy handle. You can see this by going to the thread link the OP posted, in which that account is commenting about the UI tweaks.

    Both accounts list their location as ‘Burgerland’(?) so they’re most likely the same dev. Plus the ‘SleeplessOne1917’ lemmy handle you linked has absolutely no activity.

    You can also see @cannotsleep420 crossposting earlier lemmy changelogs that mention @SleeplessOne1917…

    TWeaK, (edited )

    In the recent Lemmy developer update, there’s a reference to one Lemmy developer, SleeplessOne1917.

    I found some horrifying comments from this user.

    The post then lists comments from /u/[email protected], however the text over the name is SleeplessOne (without the number on the end). This account is also on lemmygrad, the lemmy devs’ main accounts are on lemmy.ml. Do you have anything to verify that they’re the same person, or that they are another dev? Because I see no “CannotSleep420” mentioned on the github page. The main two are actually /u/[email protected] and /u/[email protected].

    Next you’ll be telling me that Hollywood actress Margot Robbie also moderates round these parts.

    Edit: They probably are the same person.

    NOT_RICK, (edited )
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    You can look up my other comment for more examples, but this one is the most clear:

    lemmygrad.ml/post/750810

    They may not be the same person, although I suspect they are as the lemmy.ml account isn’t active, but either way 420 is at a minimum a contributor

    TWeaK,

    They “contributed to the project”, that doesn’t mean they have any authority over lemmy development, as the top of the post is suggesting. “Contributing to the project” could mean just about anything.

    While I wouldn’t completely discount the possibility that they are the same person, this post provides no evidence of that. HOWEVER, this comment suggests they might well be!!

    TBF the future lemmy developer isn’t too far off. I’ve been discussing being added to the NLNet grant along with another person, phiresky, with Dessalines and Nutomic.

    @TokyoMonsterTrucker you might be interested in that.

    TWeaK,

    FYI, you can make an instance agnostic link just by typing /u/[email protected].

    TokyoMonsterTrucker,

    Nice tip, thank you. Still fumbling my way around…

    TWeaK,

    No worries. A couple other things:

    • /c/community@instance and @community@instance will work for communities.
    • /u/user@instance is instance agnostic but will not generate a mention to the user’s inbox.
    • [linktext](http://instance/u/user) will link to the user’s instance only, but it sends a mention to them. You can also do this by starting to type @user@instance and selecting the user from the dropdown box (on the website, not necessarily in apps).
    • The different apps for lemmy don’t necessarily always work correctly in line with the website, but they’ll catch up.
    • Each post is actually primarily hosted at that user’s instance, then federated from there. So if you’re a lemmy.world user and post in a lemmy.ml community, your post will actually post at lemmy.world first and then federate. It isn’t necessarily hosted in the community’s instance. The same is true for every comment - hence why you won’t see comments from users in an instance yours isn’t federated with, even if they are federated with the post’s instance and can comment in the thread.
    • You can’t really do anything with posts or comments to jump across instances, as each instance assigns a different number to the same content. Hopefully one day they’ll change it so the url is more like http://instance/post/123456@hostinstance in everywhere but the federated host instance. But it’s all still in early development.
    can,

    Doesn’t work for me. @SleeplessOne1917 does though

    gelberhut,
    @gelberhut@lemdro.id avatar

    I remember when extreme political views of main Lemmy Devs (which are/where admins s of lemmygrad as well, if I recall correctly) were discussed here several times, people suggested to ignore them and focus on their work. Donate for Lemmy development, not to the persons…

    what concrete solution do you see, switch to kbin? Continue to separate development from their other activities?

    bioemerl,

    switch to kbin?

    Switch to kbin

    NOT_RICK,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Friendly reminder that it’s very easy to sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians without glorifying terrorists.

    For a similar example, I support the cause of a United Ireland but that doesn’t mean I support the IRA. Be better than that.

    DmMacniel,
    @DmMacniel@feddit.de avatar

    War is dirty, always has been.

    And the year/decade long war/geconide in Palestine/Israel? Sponsored by the west and an utter humanitarian shitshow.

    Standing on their own, those statements are sure horrible. But you gotta see the grand picture, then you can only despair and perhaps turn your gaze away or you will be plagued by sleepless nights.

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