The transphobia stops now

This community is housed on an instance run by two trans women, focused on the needs of the queer and gender diverse community.

We allowed 196 here because we were promised the community is queer and trans inclusive.

If you’re here it’s because you’re aggressively supportive of trans folk. Not middle of the ground, not “just asking questions”.

If your response to that is, “yes, but…” then this isn’t the instance for you, and by extension, this isn’t the community for you.

tl;dr - Unambiguous support and inclusion, or fuck off somewhere else.

–

Edit - I changed the phrase "aggressive support to “unambiguous support”, as there was some confusion over the intent behind my previous phrasing.

LeylaaLovee,

Thank God. THAT post earlier was shocking me.

Bloodwoodsrisen,
@Bloodwoodsrisen@lemmy.tf avatar

As an Asexual Gender-Fluid person with trans friends, I fully support this

alternative_factor,
@alternative_factor@kbin.social avatar

There was transphobia in 196? HOW?

unmarketableplushie,
@unmarketableplushie@pawb.social avatar

One of the mods made a post about how this comment being really creepy about trans men’s bodies somehow wasn’t transphobic and then deleted it after people started calling them out lol

LeylaaLovee,

Thank you for providing good context on this thread. The original comment was ass, but not important overall. If the mod hadn’t decided to explicitly defend it, this wouldn’t even be a conversation. This entire discourse would have been avoided if it wasn’t for a shitty mod post.

unmarketableplushie,
@unmarketableplushie@pawb.social avatar

Nedankinde. This is an issue we all care about, after all.

BraBraBra,

Defending it is the only sane response. He was literally asked for his opinion. Is it homophobic for a straight person not find the same gender attractive? Of course not. Then how is transphobic for a cis man not to be into penises? It’s completely bizarre reasoning.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Fuck off.

Genital preferences are valid as far as any preference for physical attributes but when you’re reducing people to purely genitals it’s gross and no respect needs to be given to the argument.

BraBraBra,

That’s not what happened. In the context of dating and sex it’s an extremely relevant point. Sounds like you’re mad at a headline without reading the article, in a manner of speaking. So you fuck off.

good_girl,
@good_girl@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The original comment literally boiled down to “boobs and vagina is woman, penis is man”.

BraBraBra,

No it didn’t. He explained he would be put off by a transitioned trans man. Go through their comment history and you’ll see they’d be comfortable dating preop, as long as their partner is comfortable with them finding their femininity attractive.

priapus, (edited )

That is not at all what it said. The original commenter said that he would not be willing to date a trans man after they transition because he cannot find a penis sexually attractive and because he does find boons sexually attractive. This is a completely ok thing to say, it’s what was said after this original comment that became a problem. The post should not have been made by the mod, because it led to a lot of transphobes commenting.

LeylaaLovee,

The mod could have just… Not responded to it like they don’t respond to thousands of comments. You’re not listening to the point. If you’re straight, don’t fuck trans men because you view them as women because vagina and boob

BraBraBra,

You’re missing the point. His point was explicitly that he wouldn’t date post op trans men.

What you saying right now was literally his point. To date a trans man because finda him attractive for his femininity wouldn’t work. That was literally his entire point.

BraBraBra,

The guy said he wasn’t into dicks and that it would be weird to like something about his partner that they would want gone and dislike. That’s not transphobic. It honestly bonkers that people find that to be transphobic.

unmarketableplushie,
@unmarketableplushie@pawb.social avatar

https://pawb.social/pictrs/image/0db840ed-5ec5-4204-bde4-44db9b059c26.jpeg

BraBraBra,

All in a day’s work😉

Aesthesiaphilia,

Most people seem to agree it wasn't transphobia, but here's the context: https://lemmy.world/post/1893561

There was some transphobia that came crawling out like usually happens when a trans topic starts getting active, but they got shut down pretty quickly

alternative_factor,
@alternative_factor@kbin.social avatar

The post seems transphobic in a "chaser" sort of way to me, not trans though.

LeylaaLovee,

It seems very “chaser” to me. In other comments, the poster mentioned how he was attracted to “post op trans women and pre op trans men”. Grouping those two demographics together in this way will never be seen as not chaser.

AdmiralRob,

What does chaser mean?

LeylaaLovee,

Someone who fetishizes trans people. You find trans people hot? That’s totally fine, you can have preferences. But grouping post op trans women and pre op trans men sexually is saying that they’re being viewed as women regardless of their identity.

If you wanna fuck a trans person, it should be because you’re attracted to them. Maybe you like boobs and penis together and that’s fine. Maybe you like a masculine chest and a vagina. You can be attracted to a certain intersection, even if that intersection is a straight one. But fucking them because they’re trans and exotic is chasing. If you like women, fuck trans women. If you like men, fuck trans men. But don’t just randomly flip them around like there’s no difference to you.

AdmiralRob,

Thank you. It was my first time hearing the term.

BraBraBra,

The guy just said that penises put him off, good god. Is it common in the trans community for people to find it transphobic when cis people aren’t attracted to them post transition? Because while I fully support the right to be trans and transition, that is pretty nuts to find it transphobic just because someone doesn’t find you attractive.

GraySanity,

well, yes and no

to my personal experience, it can feel kind of transphobic, as being in the position of being rejected just because of your genitals, and not because of the rest of your personality and appearance/gender expression just feels wrong and mean somehow, but if I try to rationalize it, saying that such pereference is transphobic feels just as bad, as you cant force someones pereference

there needs to be said that the person did not see the implication of praising/complementing someones genitals that were the problem (in the case of the original post “And it would propably be difficult with me going ‘I love your boobs’ and they’re always like ‘I hate my boobs’”). As praising or giving a trans person a complement on the bodyparts which are a big part of their disphoria is just mean and very painfull for most of them (this was propably unintended tho, and I expect the original postter didn’t think about this, but still)

[pre-anything transfem btw]

BraBraBra,

Most people expect sex within weeks. And no matter how great you find someone, if sex with them is a chore due to you not finding their sexual organs appealing(which is something you can’t really control), that’s not going to be an ideal relationship.

And on the point of finding something attractive about your partner that is the source of their dysphoria, that seems like a recipe for disaster and hurt.

I can understand how it doesn’t feel great to read those points and how it’s a talking point that you wouldn’t want to see in communities you follow, but to call it transphobic just because it’s hurtful just doesn’t seem sound imho.

But in this case at least it’s not simply boiling someone down to their sexual organs, but rather recognizing how their sexual organs could realistically affect the relationship.

MBM,

the person did not see the implication of praising/complementing someones genitals that were the problem

Wasn’t that the point of the comment? They got asked if they’d date a trans guy and responded that it wouldn’t work out because what they’re attracted to is exactly what makes the trans guy dysphoric

Edit: the post the comments were under was a bit weird about trans though, I’d be fine with that not existing here

LeylaaLovee,

That’s not the issue. You can’t say “yeah I like women” and then say that includes pre op trans men. That’s fucking gross to say. He literally did the “oh noooo but your boobs!” You guys really go straight to being condescending before you actually try to understand anything, Jesus fucking Christ.

BraBraBra,

He said the boobs would be an issue in a relationship with a trans man because he would attracted to a source of the person’s dysphoria, which would make them incompatible.

Someone literally asked for his opinion on this matter, in a post that invited the opinions of straight people. There is no grossness or transphobia here. Someone asked him if he would date trans men and he explained why they would be incompatible.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

There was some transphobia that came crawling out like usually happens when a trans topic starts getting active

That is what prompted this post. It happens every single time trans stuff comes up. There is no space for it here.

hypelightfly,

To be clear, some of the comments you removed were from the person you are now replying to.

ada, (edited )
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yes, I’m aware. You can see the list here lemmy.blahaj.zone/modlog?page=1&userId=170858

They were removed, because a meme community on a trans run instance isn’t the place for a discussion on the specifics of why you don’t want to fuck trans people.

We hear that enough, every day, in every place we look online. We don’t need it here too.

Was the post transphobic? That depends on who you ask, but either way, what it wasn’t is “unambiguously supportive”

It’s also worth pointing out that those posts were not the trigger for this thread

Dee,
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

It’s also worth pointing out that those posts were not the trigger for this thread

That’s a relief! I was a little worried because I like this instance but was butting heads in the one post. Thank you for running this instance. I threw what money I can at the moment to the blahaj.zone Kofi because I feel bad I might’ve made your job harder as an admin lol

Zymii,
@Zymii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

a meme community on a trans run instance isn’t the place for a discussion on the specifics of why you don’t want to fuck trans people.

I really wish more people got this

JackbyDev,

It’s like Pokémon, you made eye contact with someone on a meme sub and suddenly you’re forced into a debate you don’t want to have.

👀 Barbie or Oppenheimer? Answer me, Zymi!

Juno,

I was thinking about this in the context of a conversation I was privy to recently boiled down it was basically “I don’t have a problem with trans people But…sexually assaulting kids is bad But…teaching sexual orientation to 3 year Olds is bad”

I don’t want to have to feel like I need to “just leave”

persolb,

Honestly I didn’t realize this was a trans community. I thought ‘196’ was just some random number like the ‘4’ in 4chan. 196 just had good content. The fact it’s inclusive is just a bonus.

Tomad,

Variety makes things better.

DrQuint,

That’s partially to blame for all 196 communities having this weird “if you know you know” approach to writing their mission statement and rules. I’ve seen numerous people ask wth is 196 because of how vague the communities they saw were.

But, particularly about the social politics, here’s also the thing I think. Trans rights are human rights. Communities fall under two categories: Welcoming to trans people, versus inherently evil. So I don’t think that a community is pro-trans should ever have to be stated. It should be assume, and whoever has a problem with it should go fuck off from society, Satan has a place for them.

priapus,

Tbf, this one does mention it on the about page, so it’s more obvious to newcomers than r/196 was.

UnculturedSwine,

The entire instance lemmy.blahaj.zone is a trans themed instance therefore every community on it is slanted towards trans community and support.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blåhaj

ShaggyDemiurge,
@ShaggyDemiurge@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s not a trans community per se, it’s more of a more trans-friendly shitposting community. Like, I think, even now majority of posters aren’t trans. And majority of content is not trans-themed, it’s not traa. It’s a good place if you don’t want to see only trans-themed memes, but also don’t want to see transphobia

survive,

Yes, but….I don’t even know what 196 is. It shows up on my feed and is sometimes funny. I’m just clueless, not a bigot.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

It's a random memeposting group that happened to evolve into a trans
oriented memeposting group.

It started with /r/195, which closed or something, so sequels were created e.g. /r/196, /r/197... kind of like Oceans Twelve ig

SourCreamAndGarlic,
@SourCreamAndGarlic@lemmy.ca avatar

Mostly. r/197 wasn’t really a sequel to r/195. It was mostly made up of people banned from r/196.

Source: I’m a former r/196 mod.

sapient_cogbag,
@sapient_cogbag@sh.itjust.works avatar

196 is a random content community with the simple rule of “post before you leave”, so its filled with memes ^.^

It’s also a very trans friendly place. But there was a thread recently with a bunch of “just asking questions”, and “trans people are just oversensitive”, and “I’m not a bigot, but most trans woman have a chip on their shoulder so I am no longer friends with them” kinda stuff, on a post a (trans) mod made complaining about people reporting a pretty questionable comment.

Even if people disagreed over the original comment, the thread about it ended up being transphobic as fuck.

So presumably the admins of lemmy.blahaj.zone (a trans-run instance, who host this, main, c/196 community, on the promise it would be very trans supportive) noticed the lack of moderation of that transphobic thread and are doing something about it ^.^

survive,

Appreciate the context! When I first started seeing the posts it seemed like something I liked but I was slightly afraid from not understanding the backstory. So glad to hear that it’s a wholesome place. I feel safe subscribing now.

Mic_Check_One_Two,

Long story short, some college roommates in room 195 started /r/195 on Reddit. The only rule was that you had to post a meme before leaving. Then the general public found it, and it grew as it started to hit /All.

But with that growth came the bigots, the racists, the nazis, etc… So eventually the /r/195 sub was quarantined. But people still liked the idea, so someone started 196 as a sort of sequel to the original. A little more moderation, and they let the bigots and racists stay on 195 so 196 could become the opposite of that. It was more heavily moderated with the hateful shit getting removed, so it quickly grew to be known as a trans-friendly sub.

And now this 196 is essentially a clone of that same idea. This announcement isn’t anything surprising once you know how 195 devolved, because the lack of moderation on 195 basically meant that the bigots were able to brigade anything that wasn’t also bigoted.

featured,

TRANS RIGHTS!!! 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

growsomethinggood,
@growsomethinggood@kbin.social avatar

Trans rights! Y'all deserve aggressive support!

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

As far as I know the original subreddit this com came from was very trans, to the point where I, as a cis straight ally, was nervous that I was somehow not supposed to be in it. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one.

So I'm witchu

I must have good filters or something, because I don't think I've noticed any TP / TERFing in here. Sad.

(of course i follow from a mastodon account so i probably miss a lot of stuff)

LeylaaLovee,

Just so you know, before I say anything, I am happy that you’ve joined this community. I don’t want anything I say to seem like I’m discouraging you from participating. The overall point of what I’m about to say is that this should be a trans community. I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable because you don’t know if you’re allowed, but at the same time I wish that non-queer people as a group had to have a moment of empathy of “oh this place isn’t for me”. It’s a similar fear to how trans people feel in men’s and women’s spaces

196 is extremely trans oriented at this point, to the point that I’d consider it a borderline trans community. I like that it isn’t fully trans though. You know how often cis people have a monopoly on the conversation on a distributed community? There’s nothing necessarily wrong with cis people having that control, but why can’t trans people have that same space? Other people are allowed of course, but if we have to enter a separate reality for other people’s communities, other people should have to enter ours. There’s no way for us to force an equal medium, the best way we can enforce that is by wanting empathetic but easy experiences for other.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

WADR, that's really not at all been true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/z1kzd6/r196_is_inclusive_you_dont_need_to_feel_excluded/

https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/y6v4kf/the_196_demographic_survey_which_about_6000/

LeylaaLovee, (edited )

You realize trans people are only 1 percent of the population normally right? Trans women representing 15 percent of the group is quite a large demographic.

Edit: sorry this sounds condescending, didn’t mean to make it so. Just explaining that statistically, there are a ton of trans people on here.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

I guess I don't know why you need to bring this up.

I'm fully aware this forum has a lot of trans folks in it. And I am happy to embrace that. But up till now there hasn't been any "please no cis folks" pressure in it, either.

It's not like 196 started out as a trans space. And there are definitely a lot of places that were. And I would tread very lightly in them if at all.

Is it even a bad thing for trans and cis to mix and enjoy things together? Isn't that, like, positive?

Sheesh.

LeylaaLovee,

It’s not “no cis folks” it’s asking to recognize that this is a trans space, on an explicitly trans Lemmy instance. Cis people can participate here the same way trans people can interact with cis spaces. If we want to enjoy it whatsoever, we just have to accept a certain level of shittiness to conform to those social standards. I’m saying that in a space where there are 30x more trans people than average, also on a dedicated trans server, yeah this is an explicitly trans space at this point. You may not like that, but I hate how Lemmy.world is pretty much entirely dominated by cis people, it is what it is.

Cis people can come here, they can even make their case for things they believe. People of different perspectives add to communities. Monoculture is never good. However, there needs to be some empathy in the way we feel like we’re walking on eggshells anytime we’re not talking to other trans people. We both feel like outsiders in the same way, and I don’t necessarily like that, but I also don’t think there’s any way to actually explain that in a truly applicable way. Lived experience goes further for empathy than anything, yk?

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

I would be sad if trans folks stopped communicating naturally in this space because in my opinion that's the main reason that makes the space worth being in.

UnculturedSwine,

This is what the fediverse was created for. Casual transphobia doesn’t need to be permitted and I fully support that.

ombremad,

Thank you so much. We need that more than anything right now — where transphobic content tends to be the default on the web.

If this is the time to go full aggressive for our rights, count me in!

(And if you’re here to passive-aggressively complain about how you « don’t care about people’s sexuality » and making everyone notice you’re leaving — let me be very active-aggressive in saying « good fucking riddance » to you.)

akariii,

heheh, i like this comment

Lightsong,

Just wondering what does 196 means anyway? Clueless lemmy user here.

Ps I’m ally of LGBTQ2S+.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.social avatar

@Lightsong

IronCorgi,

Sorry if I'm being dense but how does that relate to transphobia? Do the messages they post tend to be transphobic or something?

BedInspector,

All I know is that 196 communities have The Rule which is that you must post something before you leave.

Mozingo,
@Mozingo@lemmy.world avatar

Back on Reddit some dude and his roomates made a subreddit called r/195 (their dorm number). It only had one rule, when you visit, you have to post a meme. Eventually the public found the subreddit and started posting their own memes. It got huge and out of hand and some awful stuff started getting posted so they finally deleted the subreddit. That disappointed a bunch of people so a sequel was made, r/196. This community is a recreation of that second subreddit.

There1snospoon7491,

This should be in the sidebar so the lore isn’t lost.

PugJesus,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

196 was a shitposting subreddit back on, uh, Reddit, which had one rule - you had to post before you left.

It became known as a very trans-friendly shitposting subreddit and honestly probably one of the better shitposting subreddits in general.

Now it's migrated at least partially to the Fediverse.

TTH4P,

Aggressive support given!

Kindbudnuggz,

I don’t want to give Aggressive support. We need to talk likes and prayers, those matter. Just so tired of all this aggressive support shit. You Trans, it’s weird, don’t act like it’s a social norm…so sorry people say shit about it but it’s weird so its gonna happen.

PugJesus,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

God I hope you forgot the /s

Risus_Nex,

Yes, it IS not the norm. It’s a minority. But that doesn’t make it weird. Just because it’s kind of rare doesn’t make it a bad thing. It’s been and still is the society that is making it weird for the people themselves. But I see a positive development to a more open minded and inclusive society, even tho the “angry people” who are against this are loud, they won’t be able to stop it! And they know it, that’s why they are so angry at everyone who’s different as them.

lazynooblet,
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

It’s good to be weird. Weird means not normal, not mainstream. I find not weird to be boring. So bring on the weird!

Jimbo,
@Jimbo@yiffit.net avatar

So with you on this, as a weird person I would not change anything even tho it sometimes presents challenges. Found a weird bf too and I’m in heaven

agent_flounder,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

Right on. It’s good to be in the minority, to be different!! It would be boring and if everyone were the same.

I have ADHD so there are always more people not like me than like me (unless I’m in a ADHD club or something lol). I could say I’m weird. But also I’m a different kind of normal. Who decides what is or isn’t normal anyway right?

Anyway… The problem isn’t being unlike some majority group. The problem is the fear and hatred and ignorance.

When it comes down to it we are all human.

mtnwolf,
@mtnwolf@lemmy.world avatar

I had a discussion about weird vs. norm with a friend the other day. We decided neither type of person is good or bad inherently because they are weird or normal. Different things comfort them. A weird person feels safe surrounded by people that “get them” who are weird like they are. Their personal identity is often centered on the fact that they are not “normal”. They take pride in it.

But the predictability of a more structured “normal” life is just as comforting to those who are “normal”. There are no rights or wrongs here, only the need for each type to recognize and respect the other. I don’t really like derogatory terms like “normie”, which I have more than one friend who uses (I don’t say anything to them about it, I can personally not like it without making demands on my friends to feel the same as I do). It’s like when I was in school, there were mostly right handed people, but every now and then there was a “leftie” or “southpaw”. They were different. I don’t recall ever seeing anyone bullied over being left-handed, but we all knew who they were. Humans and many animals focus on differences. It’s probably a residual primal thing. Wolves will kill deformed or sickly pups, for example.

Normal is boring to some, and weird is chaotic to some. Both are acceptable stances and shouldn’t be seen as adversarial by either group.

Aesthesiaphilia,

but it’s weird so its gonna happen

But it shouldn't happen.

"This is how things are" is a terrible excuse for why we should allow them to be that way.

Hopefully you're just being sarcastic tho

ExceedinglyPanWoofer,

Transphobes gtfo

RobertOwnageJunior,

Stick your hopes and prayers where you’re food goes.

detectivesniffles,

WHATS THAT SORRY I CANT HEAR YOU IM CRANKING THE HOG RIGHT NOW TRANSPHOBES GTFO (DISRESPECTFULLY) 🏳️‍⚧️

tsz,

Yeah I have no problem with you being trans, I do have a problem with this goofiness. Good luck, friends.

MinusPi,

Defining people against hate speech is goofiness?

tsz,

That isn’t at all what this post says.

Zoop,

HELL YEAH 💖

Dee, (edited )
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

Can you see my reply? I’m on lemmy.world and I thought it was still defederated from Beehaw so I shouldn’t be able to see your comment O_o (I’m used to being more active on my beehaw account so using my lemmy.world account threw me off, disregard this lol)

P.S. Yay trans rights and having a pro-trans meme space 😄

Mozingo,
@Mozingo@lemmy.world avatar

Being defederated just means you can’t see new posts on beehaw communities and they can’t see your communities at all. If your instance and beehaw are both federated with a third instance, like the one this community is on, then you’ll still be able to see comments by beehaw users on that instance.

Dee, (edited )
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure about that. I think it might be a glitch or something because I never see beehaw comments on lemmy.world and never see lemmy.world comments on my beehaw account. Like, I can’t see the comment I made on this account from my beehaw account.

Just thought it was odd.

I was just being dumb, Monzingo is right.

Aesthesiaphilia,

Let me just make sure I got this right

Dee is on lemmy.world

Zoop is on beehaw

This thread is on lemmy.blahaj.zone

So Dee and Zoop can see each other's comments since neither lemmy.world nor beehaw is defederated from blahaj.zone?

It's like a border state or something

Dee,
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

I can see Zoop’s comment, but Zoop can’t see mine. Because beehaw is defederated from lemmy.world but lemmy.world has not chosen to defederate from beehaw so it still gets the comments from beehaw users.

Actually because all these replies are to my lemmy.world account Zoop can’t see this entire exchange, and I can’t see it on my beehaw account either. I just had a brain fart.

Aesthesiaphilia,

Ah, okay. Because behaw defederated they're not seeing anything from lemmy.world. They're also not sending anything to lemmy.world. But they are sending stuff to blahaj.zone, so you can read that stuff.

I wonder if they're seeing my responses, from kbin, to your comments, from lemmy.world, on blahaj.zone.

Dee, (edited )
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder if they’re seeing my responses, from kbin, to your comments, from lemmy.world, on blahaj.zone.

I cannot see anything from this conversation on my beehaw account, because it all stemmed from my original reply (which is from a lemmy.world account). So on beehaw it’s just Zoop’s original comment, nothing after.

Edit: For example on beehaw this post as 37 comments, while on lemmy.world it has 97 (at the time of writing this edit)

Strawberry,

why did beehaw defederate from lemmy.world?

Dee,
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

That’s why. Which is to say they were getting too many reports from lemmy.world accounts to go through and keep the good vibes in their communities, but hope to refederate as soon as Lemmy gets more granular moderation tools developed.

Strawberry,

I see, thank you

gramathy,

Accorded neutral ground

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

I can see your comment, but I'm on mastodon.cloud. 🙂

Dee,
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks, bud. It’s nice to be seen 🙂

Dee_Imaginarium,
@Dee_Imaginarium@beehaw.org avatar

See Mozingo? Nothin’

(this comment makes more sense if you can see both lemmy.world and beehaw comments lol)

Dee,
@Dee@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, I had the dumbs. So because lemmy.world isn’t defederated from beehaw, but beehaw is defederated from lemmy.world I can see the beehaw comments on lemmy.world but not the other way around.

False alarm, I got excited for a second there but had the dumbs. Carry on about your day.

CYCLR,

Personally, I don’t think about other people’s sexuality all that much, so I guess that makes me a non-aggressive supporter.

It’s weird to impose this type of stuff, but I respect that this is your little space on the internet, so I’m leaving, as you asked. Thank you for the smiles and laughs.

TTH4P,

Aggressive support. I’m with ya.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

trans is not a sexuality

CYCLR,

That’s for the clarification! Like I said, I’m not super into this whole topic

1stTime4MeInMCU,

“I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s greatest stumbling block in his strike toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice.’

Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Not to equivocate trans and black liberation because they are very different, but do you think “aggressive” or “non aggressive” supporter of race rights better slots into the whites who demonstrated their unwillingness to go along with racism or the ones who were like “I don’t care about your race, I’m not a racist, but how dare you ask me to support you in any meaningful or visible way?”

CYCLR,

Good point! I do think it’s important to support trans rights, but I’d be a hypocrite if I said I AGGRESSIVELY support the cause. There’s just a lot going on in my life right now, I just want to keep a clear mind, is all.

That being said, I never agree with or accept signs of transphobia.

1stTime4MeInMCU,

Thanks for replying. I don’t know OPs intent when they said aggressively, but I can’t imagine your description not fitting into some reasonable definitions of allyship. Most people (even queer people) are not hauling themselves to every protest. Calling out transphobia as uncool when seen is as aggressive as anybody needs, imo. I wouldn’t get hung up on the wording.

Aesthesiaphilia,

I don’t know OPs intent when they said aggressively

MILITANT SHITPOSTING

SEIZE THE MEMES OF PRODUCTION

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What I mean by aggressively is, without caveats, without “but…”'s, without ambiguity. Your support needs to be clearly on the support side.

You don’t need to be an activist. You don’t need to be out marching or even commenting on trans stuff, but your opinion on trans folks should be unambiguously on the “support” side of things.

CYCLR,

Oh, that’s a much better description. I think I’ll stay for longer then, thank you!

LeylaaLovee,

Yeah. If someone is ever writing out “I’m an ally, but…” literally nothing good ever follows.

Sage_the_Lawyer,

That’s a quote from his letter from Birmingham jail, right?

While there are, of course, major differences in trans and black liberation, I read the full letter again recently and was shocked at how much of it was applicable to the current trans rights movement. I actually get the feeling that the two movements are more alike than they are different.

History repeats itself. I highly encourage everyone to take a half hour and read the full letter. Maybe if everyone took his words to heart, we could avoid some of the bullshit this time around. The conservative playbook of oppression hasn’t changed much. It’s just focused on a different target this time.

1stTime4MeInMCU,

I agree that there is a great deal to be learned and analogies to be drawn. However, I’m not a person of color so I didn’t want to unilaterally co-opt a movement that isn’t mine to take.

Sage_the_Lawyer,

Completely fair, and I totally agree! I’m also not a person of color, so I hope my comment didn’t come across as trying to co-opt the movement. Just wanted to, as you said, point out there are a lot of similarities and lessons that could be learned.

I, as a trans person, fully recognize that black people had it worse than trans people do now. While both communities face violence, black people faced violence that was heavily state-sponsored and far more widespread, even with the recent increased rates of violence against trans people. The entire U.S. legal system was rigged against them from the start. It was their blood that earned us the Civil Rights Act, which is the foundation our movement needed. And that’s a debt we will owe forever. And I also recognize that people of color continue to face discrimination. The fight isn’t over, for any of us.

I’m getting wordy. I think we’re both on the same page here. I guess civil rights discussions get me going (but tbh, I’m okay with that). Hope you have a great day!

DessertStorms,
@DessertStorms@kbin.social avatar

I quote that letter regularly, sadly those who need to hear it never do and always try to bring it back to the whitewashed MLK and "non-violence".

Here are a few articles I linked to someone recently who did that, that others might find interesting:

https://timeline.com/by-the-end-of-his-life-martin-luther-king-realized-the-validity-of-violence-4de177a8c87b

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/1/18/martin-luther-king-jr-was-radical-we-must-reclaim-that-legacy

https://www.history.com/news/for-martin-luther-king-jr-nonviolent-protest-never-meant-wait-and-see

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/15/1175833143/mlk-martin-luther-king-jr-malcolm-x-quote-biography

BaumGeist,

Btw, I don’y think “equivocate,” which comes from equivocal, means what you’re trying to say (that you do not wish to position the movements as 1-to-1 matches)

1stTime4MeInMCU,

Thanks, I think you’re right! One of those words that somehow formed the wrong definition in my brain. TIL

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