I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.
I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.
Why aren’t you fighting on the front lines in Ukraine? It’s just like LOTR/Harry Potter so you should have no problem opposing the forces of evil, seeing as how you are the main character of existence.
You say you understand why Ukrainians call ALL Russians orcs (not just the military invading them, or just the Russian government, ALL Russians). You say you understand why Ukraine would generalize the entire ethnicity of the country that’s invading them.
How is that different from what we did to Japanese Americans? (Also you might want to look into how the Russian ethnic minority has been treated in Ukraine)
A good part of the ethnic Russians fight on Ukrainian side. If you weren’t aware, for a lomg time Russian was the official language of the Azov Battalion.
But you go on believing Russian lies even after Prigozhin has admitted openly that all the stories were a lie.
A good part of the ethnic Russians fight on Ukrainian side.
The good part of the opressed ethnic minority in a country fights for their opressors. Please do the barest of research on the War in Donbass jesus christ.
As for Ukrainians calling all Russians orcs I cannot blame them after the horrors of Bucha, Olevnika, Mariupol, the endless targeting of infrastructure, all while the general Russian population not only doesn’t care but openly support it.
Rape of Nanking = Japanese internment is ok, got it. You have confirmed my suspicions, thank you.
But you would have cried foul over Poles cursing Germans in 1945 too pointing out innocent Germans did possibly exist, so I don’t care too much.
No I wouldnt have because i recognize the difference in materially different situations.
I am personally against Putin’s decision to invade, and DEFINITLY against any warcrimes commited. Though I will say, targeting infrastructure is part of war, not a warcrime. And Putin isn’t just some evil ork who decided to invade for no reason. There are material reasons why the invasion happened, even if I’m against the decision. And the reasons aren’t lebensraum.
Though I will say, targeting infrastructure is part of war, not a warcrime.
It depends on the specifics of the infrastructure, really. Bombing rail lines carrying weapons to the front? Not a war crime. Blowing up a dam and deliberately drowning hundreds of thousands of civilians? War crime.
Either way, Russia has been extremely restrained in their destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure, especially in the first year of the war. It’s downright shocking when you compare the infrastructure left intact compared to what was left intact after only the first few weeks of the US invasion of Iraq.
Wonder how this person feels about the US’ bombing campaign in the Korean War. Somehow I don’t think they’d hesitate to justify killing 20% of the North’s entire population us-foreign-policy
Depends on the grayness of the orcish regime. My point being, if even America couldn’t nuke a country and get away with taking no responsibility (they took very little, but my point still stands regardless) then what makes you think Ukraine is going to enslave or kill the “orcs”? Warning, wall of text below.
Tl;dr: The orcs aren’t meant to be a metaphor for a race, they’re a metaphor for Victorian-era aristechnocratic factory and railway owners (Sauron) and their Pinkerton-style union-busting goons (tree-hating orcs).
Also tl;dr: The elves, on the other hand, are just because Tolkien made them to speak his con-lang pet project of a “High Elvish” language, go figure. Admittedly, my online persona is the main character in all three of my writing projects, so I definitely have no right to complain about putting in the work to make a world for a favored creation to interact with.
**Rant begins now, feel free to ignore!**If the foe who is about to conquer your country just blew up two cities and they’re offering near-equality, then you have “fantasy subversion” orcs or America just before the end of WWII, and I would certainly be relieved (at least with the advantage of hindsight) in that case about allying rather than everyone I care about dying by gun or by A-bomb. If they’re hellbent on overthrowing a democracy to ensure their own prosperity, you get orcs ruled as raiding parties who only care about freedom applying to themselves, or America’s various nasty CIA operations for the sake of protecting corporations and the power of the wealthiest people in the world, in which case Gondor better call for aid. If the orcs are being led by a charismatic yet clearly evil ruler with an ego the size of a skyscraper tower and a [redacted] small enough for a ring, and the orcs are dumb enough to believe in this monster…
Of course, apply this to any situation or nation as needed, no country is perfect but few modern sovereign states are as close to fubar as North Korea or Somalia, and probably not even them, that the people would - even upon being injured and backed into a corner - disrespect an offer of some level of mercy from a would-be victim who turned the tables.
It would be going too far to do more than help determine a new government to replace the Russian oligarchy, and the fact that Ukraine’s military are getting called out by it’s government, it’s own people and by the global press for drafting people by threat of violence is hopefully a sign that no, the orcs outside AND inside the gates of our communities are just trying to live and no longer believe it when told by the tribal leaders to risk their lives just to destroy someone else’s lives.
Refuse? Maybe. Insult? Nobody is going to insult an honest truce put in writing, because the average person - if nothing else - does not approve of a complete stranger with a fancy office looking a gift horse in the mouth while the other hand of the horseman is holding a loaded pistol is in the mouth of the general public. Not that many leaders still have the public in unbroken chains by the point that becomes a “choice” that needs to be made.
I’m not saying war is ever not horrible, only that if black-white or even monochrome morality wasn’t relative, the world wouldn’t have survived long enough to have democratic ideals to strive toward and never quite reach, socialist interstate highways that fund capitalist organizations (truck stops, auto mechanics, tire manufacturing plants, tow truck companies, etc.), and capitalist organizations that would collapse like everything else if they didn’t at least try to help keep humanity from blowing ourselves up or otherwise destroy modern civilization… not that climate crisis is looking avoidable anymore…
The world is a mixed bag and taking over the world is like trying to herd cats because nobody likes being bullied and there’s always someone who doesn’t enjoy seeing people suffer to disagree with the orcs, or tell the elves to stop being holier than thou and actually get involved in the Atlantic blockades before more people die, Roosevelt …or (thanks to the internet, may it continue to exist) otherwise call out who the real bad guys are (especially if it’s both sides, in which case someone will try to keep track of who committed which war crimes) to the world’s third parties. It’s not perfect, but war is worse than hell already and being able to restrict it at all, let alone be even remotely potent in doing so, is as much a miracle to, say, 135 years ago (1893, as it’s 2023 as of this writing) as blowing up a major city instantly, putting robots on Mars before any human would ever go there, or sending a short message to someone in South Africa, Japan or Colombia with augmented reality iGlasses (“Apple Vision Pro” is just… un-toyetic) from the $150 seat of a commuter jet to the nearest metropolis.
Sorry for the rant, it’s more than aggravating as a writer to hear people starting on the orc argument. It’s like one person saying “this fictional concept is racist because I need a scapegoat!” and the other saying “But because it’s only loosely based on reality, none of the things these characters do actually matter irl even if they’re 100% applicable to real life situations!” followed by a bunch of “Nuh-uh!” and “Uh-huh!” noises over what actually amounts to “No, there’s no realism to the elf-orc always alignment stupid monochrome morality, but people need a reference for what they might want to strive for and what they should avoid resorting to in pursuit of their goals” because that’s what writers aimed for before every single show had to be artificially diverse. If you have to shove it down people’s throats, you shouldn’t be writing a story because you promised entertainment along with enlightenment.
Don’t be like Ayn Rand, Chris-Chan or Adolf Hitler, write a world and write people into it, don’t be like this reply and write a goddamn manifesto because unlike on Lemmy, if someone is choosing to read your book then they probably paid you money for it. I say this because I had to learn to try to avoid making anyone in my fictional stories, even and especially my author surrogate character, subject to the same world as everyone else in the story and for that world to be fun or interesting before it is a morality tale or political drama.
If you didn’t like reading all this, please do better than the bare minimum when you sell a luxury good you produced. “Made by an independent artist”, myself and my work included, does not automatically equal “Made by an experienced artist”.
It’s cause of massive corruption and bribes allowing the upper class to avoid being drafted, Zelenskyy needs more blood for his blood god (NATO) and his corrupt little underlings are clogging up the works
Yeah that would work on it, but what I did was try to use AyyyyyOC-big which due to some mess up is no longer big. Instead it’s just more saturated haha
It doesn’t count that I said something stupid! It doesn’t count because I wasn’t serious! It doesn’t count because I didn’t think about it! That means I get away with saying stupid things!!
Do you believe that that because you genuinely believe that capitalist nations like the United States and Russia are doing good things for the world, while “tankie” countries like Cuba and China are doing bad things for the world? Or do you believe that because you have been tricked by 100 years of racist propaganda that says socialists like Fidel Castro, Albert Einstein, and Martin Luther King were subhuman scum?
lmao How many times has that worked on anyone, honestly? Like I’m just gonna wake up one day and say, “yeah, you know what, my entire worldview has been shattered by @KurtVonnegut whispering sweet commie propaganda in my ear”
Idk why you are all on stuck on the tankie shit like it matters that much to me. Like I said previously, I don’t have a problem with the Christians for being Christian, but just like you tankies, the fandom is weird, intense and circlejerky af
IDK man. You’re basically saying “Why are you stuck on that environmentalist shit? It doesn’t matter to me. Go worry about climate change somewhere else, stop bothering me.”
My brother in christ. Climate change will affect you whether you want it to or not. Capitalism will affect you whether you want it to or not. You can’t just be “out” of it. You can’t not take a side in whether the earth gets destroyed or not (environmentalism) or whether 90% of the world’s population is plunged into neo-feudal slavery. You’re either with the slave-owners or against them. You gotta pick a side!
Oh fuck they figured us out, you’re the first person we couldn’t trick. You truly are capitalisms bravest soldier. I’m sure that’ll matter when the rich go to space or bunkers or whatever.
Known capitalist evil practices do not absolve tankies of wanting to impose communism by force.
You use the term “racist propaganda” interchangeably as anti-socialist propaganda…as if the only victims of capitalism were the victims of racism.
Who calls MLK and Einstein scum? Maybe Fidel was called that by right-wingers during the Cold War. Why did you mix and match those 3? Why not Emma Goldman or Gorbachev, if you’re just naming random socialists (I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist).
I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist.
Well then.
“I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“Today, capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
It says a lot about the education system wherever you come from that you never learned MLK was a socialist. He HATED capitalism! Hated it! Also, the scientist Albert Einstein was a prominent socialist who wrote a famous article, “Why socialism?” explaining in detail why he was a socialist. Einstein and MLK believed in the same anti-capitalist struggle. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F
Idk how to break it to you guys, but the magic corn cob does nothing to someone who can’t give two shits about it. It’s hard to hear, but please don’t cry.
(Besides, it looks like you’re creepily inviting people to some kinky fun times and that’s infinitely more hilarious. Like I said, you all suck at your own memes.)
We were invited here by the Lemmy.ml mods on behalf of their community. If the majority of users on Lemmy.ml wanted us gone then the Mods wouldn’t have federated with us in the first place. Maybe you misread the community you joined 2 months ago? The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us.
Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated. If you don’t like how Lemmy.ml s moderated you can go somewhere else like back to reddit or make your own instance. “Be the change you want to see in the world.” This is 100% a “you” problem and it is funny (in a sad sort of way) that you think otherwise.
Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated
Duh, and somehow irrelevant, but nice try
I’m not gonna let some scumbag tell me to leave. Federating with you all has made this site worse and we’ll see how well this goes. This is not a “me” problem, but a “you bunch of scumbags” problem.
I’m not telling you to leave. I kinda like you. All I have to do is exist and you suffer. I don’t really care if you to suffer but it does validate my self worth that I can effect you so easily. Your stubbornness makes me like you more because you refuse to disengage from validating my ego.
My previous comment was just trying to be fair and explain why leaving Lemmy.ml was the only likely way to end your pain at having to hear opinions you don’t agree with but I guess I made it too complex. Enjoying your suffering is only fair if you are doing it of your own free will.
You also aren’t using the “you problem vs me problem” meme correctly. The idea is that a “you problem” is something that only inconveniences you and and thus you are the one who has to fix it. We “bunch of scumbags” are actually quite happy with how things are going and as such wont be trying to change anything. And I as I was trying to explain I doubt anyone else (AKA moderators) is going to come fix things for you.
I hope you continue to spend lots of time on Lemmy.ml (you know the M L stands for Marx and Lenin right?) We hexagonal ursines will enjoy our time visiting here.
Lmfao I don’t think you guys get it. I’m not against communism 😂 This isn’t politics. But just like with the Christians, I having trouble with the fucking fandom right now. JFC you all are awful in every way. Funny because I keep getting called a Redditor for some reason and yet you all reply just like them.
Na , the NPC is then a “NPC” if he can not process new information , thereby he lays on the Floor repeating the same old “Offical Narrative” , like he was Programmed to… therefore NPC
here can you process this new information ? This is a Test , Are you somebody that repeats or are you somebody that thinks … here @Lemminary ,… you can now Test yourself , Bladerunner… , NPCs can not Process Images , can you ?
What’s hilarious is that you think your mods are on your side in this fight. Why did you think they invited us here?
You’ve been here for two months. You don’t know what the history of the website is. You don’t know the character of its administrators. I’ve got a secret for you: they’re leftists like us. In fact the whole lemmyverse was created by Marxist-Lenninists. This must be the very first time you’ve ventured out of your information bubble. Welcome. We’re going to bully the shit out of you until you can behave amicably. Did you think you could just show up to someone else’s community and start acting like you owned the place? There will be no eternal september here.
Then fucking check yourself, liberal. When you abuse the word ‘genocide’ you diminish it. You are doing the work of the nazis in making what they did (and this is what the westerner thinks of when they use the word genocide) seem no worse than the things you apply the label to in your cynicism or ignorance. And this was their literal strategy. Google “the double holocaust myth”. When they were still in uniform they applied this strategy to the USSR (which could be one of the examples you’re vagueposting at me over). You will find, if you dig into that search, documentation by Jewish hate watch groups to that effect.
I fucking mind genocide denial as much as you pretend to. So knock it the fuck off.
You’re promoting an end to the war that involves allowing Russia to complete its genocide. There’s no peace talks to be had, Russia just have to leave.
Lemmy dot world is always there if you want an instance that defederates from leftists and federates with your “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” types.
Hexbear has been using Lemmy for years, technical issues around our active user count and having to rely on volunteer labour means we were only able to federate recently.
They only were recently federated, and got defederated from some large instances like lemmy.world for their explicit intent to brigade other instances and communities to spread their “anti-liberal” nonsense.
Crying about “tankies” is just calling everything “woke” with extra steps. Not everyone there automatically supports NATO/Ukraine but it’s far from what you describe.
There are still significant numbers of people denying the genocide currently happening and actively rooting for the invaders, which is why I pointed it out. There’s a reason they have been defederated by so many large instances. This has nothing to do at all with anything “woke” and I don’t see why you’d even bring it up.
Edit: I just had a look at their frontpage and the first post there is about how the “western MSM” lied about the counteroffensive and how “Stalin shouldn’t have stopped at Berlin”. Yeah, alright. lmao
I know. They like to spread dangerous misinformation that helps Russia and Trump take over the world. It sucks. I wish we had an instance just for us anti-authoritarians.
federation isn’t brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We’re one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like “conscription is bad” should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we’d all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.
No but it’s weird that I never see any comments supporting Ukraine from hexbear users. Like the country was invaded, there is evidence of massive human rights atrocities. It is beyond the pale that so many people would just coincidentally celebrate every piece of bad news for the people being invaded and spin everything negatively against them. One would expect some diversity of opinions from any reasonably large instance but hexbear users all act like pro-russian trolls.
Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don’t back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That’s just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.
That’s Ukraine, it used to be considered the most corrupt place in Europe by the Western media right until February 2022
waging a war of expansion
That’s also Ukraine since they’re trying to take territory from the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics after they declared independence following the coup against Viktor Yanukovych in 2014
“That’s so dumb, to consider a defensive alliance with the Serbian Black Hand more destructive and deadly than the Central Power’s Imperialism waging a war of expansion” -Average Allied Nations Second International Member, 1914
How many millions of civilians were murdered/killed/starved/driven from their homes/displaced by American and NATO led imperialist wars such as the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, or Isr*el’s genocidal occupation of Palestine, which is proudly supported by the US and NATO?
My favorite part is saying that Russia exports “Nuclear terrorism” when saying that Russia is worse than… the only country that has dropped a nuclear bomb.
You’re counting both sides but then blaming only Russia lol? Hard to take that seriously. Give us Ukrainian deaths, preferably only civilian deaths, and then we might have a conversation.
Russia’s primary exports are murder, lies, and nuclear terrorism.
That would be the United States actually. Especially the last thing since Russia has never nuked anyone and America has.
You know how US Republicans like to claim that they are the party that ended slavery?
If you have to dig way back in history to make your point relevant and ignore everything that’s happening in the present day, your point is stupid and your mental stretching looks ridiculous.
I don’t have to dig back very far to find US atrocities actually. The Afgan war ended two years ago and was one of the counterpoints brought up to you.
But the idea that the United States is acutally better today than when they dropped the bombs is rich. At least we were nominally fighting fascism then.
ETA: OK so if by “nuclear terrorism” you mean… the mere act of having nukes and the implicit threat of using them. America has nukes too. Today. In 2023. Or is it only nuclear terrorism when bad country has nukes?
Putin has threatened nukes. Biden has not threatened nukes.
You dont need to say the words “I threaten nukes!” to threaten nukes. Thats the whole point of mutually assured destruction. Merely having nukes is nuclear terrorism.
America was fighting a fascist enemy, not against fascism itself. America practically invented fascism.
Well we agree on something lol.
There are no limit of ways to criticize the US, but it’s slowly, marginally getting better. The US is slowly progressing.
The US is demonstrably getting worse on trans rights, an issue I assume’d you’d care about.
And its definitely not gotten better about imperialist power projection overseas.
The US is demonstrably getting worse on trans rights, an issue I assume’d you’d care about.
Very much and on the STATE LEVEL, some states are taking right away. On a national level, trans people have never been so socially accepted before, and it shows. Trans people being out has never been higher.
Now in your precious Russia, your life is at risk just for being under suspicion of being gay, much less being publically trans.
State level for now . And those states are like half of them. The GOP is gearing up for a genocide, whether they’ll be successful I don’t know. But all my trans friends in the US are scared, including those living in Blue states. All of them wish they could get the fuck out of this country.
Now in your precious Russia
Stop this. Its a ridiculous strawman and I have stated that it is not my opinion multiple times. Russia is a hellhole in many ways and its record on queer rights is one of them.
No, they don’t want to go to Russia. And you knew that, you’re just being annoying and obstinate.
Your accuse us of obsession over Russia but you’re clearly obsessively paranoid about them if you think NATO disbandment would lead to Russia conquering the United States.
You honestly think less civilians were killed in all those things COMBINED than by Russia? Really? That’s actually one of the most wild liberal claims I’ve ever seen, and thats saying something. You’ve lost attachment to reality.
You made the extraordinary claim. Your job to provide proof.
Also I’m an American communist from New England. One of the posts on my profile is about weird shit in the American Pie movies. Another recent one you can actually see is about Skyrim. Clearly troll farm shit. (I’d point out the idea that the Kremlin would bother to astroturf lemmy is INSANE, but that ones been falling on deaf ears because you all are so self important).
Jesus I really doubt someone with Fae in their name is cishet but you used that word really slurishly.
simping for a dictatorship
I’m not. Looking at the Ukraine War with the nuance and knowledge of geopolitics it deserves isn’t simping for Putin. I hate the Putin regime, especially what they do to their queer community. Its not like Ukraine is that much better on queer issues though?
My posting history goes back three years before federation. You’ll find very few of my posts were about the Ukraine war.
I’m obviously queer af. And wtf about that was slur, and how could you be more bothered that someone used the word “queer” online more than a dictatorship that genocides queer people.
Unless you hate queer people, and hate being reminded they exist, and you want them to be removed from the world.
Nuance
What nuance? No one from Hexbear has posted anything nuanced, it’s all whataboutism of every other country that isn’t Russia.
Y’all are literally more offended than anyone would criticize Russia than anything else.
Unless you hate queer people, and hate being reminded they exist, and you want them to be removed from the world.
I am a bisexual man. I have two girlfriends and they are both trans. I have a trans cousin. And a litany of trans and otherwise queer friends, on and offline. The way you used queer in your post came off slurish whether you intended it or not. If you want to do liberalism solipism and not believe I could genuinely hold these positions as an american queer go ahead, but I do. I can both hate the Vladimir Putin and the Russian government for what they are doing to their queer population (I am actually very upset and offended by that, much more than your slightly slurish use of the word queer), and recognize that America and NATO do more evil in the world in general than Russia could ever dream of. And that if I want to advance the cause of Communism, the current imperialist world order lead by the United States needs to fall first.
No one from Hexbear has posted anything nuanced
People have posted about the history of the War in Donbass, Ukraine’s Nazi problems that the western media was admitting to right up until the invasion, and NATO encirclement plenty.
Y’all are literally more offended than anyone would criticize Russia than anything else.
I would like to remind you that this is a thread about the Ukraine war. In other threads, believe it or not, we talk about other subjects.
I mean, one has like 20 other partners and the other one has one other partner so its an open polycule I guess lol, though I dont know any of the first’s other partners. I do exchange Star Trek memes with the second girlfriend’s girlfriend though.
Russia is not even close to being more imperialist than the US. I’d describe its actions in Ukraine as revanchist, not imperialist, and to be clear thats still bad. But United States does like 1000% the amount of neoimperalist garbage throughout the global south and thats well documented: en.wikipedia.org/…/United_States_involvement_in_r…
And that article is just the overt stuff, not the just regular old economic plundering of the global south they get up to usually.
More capitalist? Eh, I guess that can be argued. Both countries are run by oligarchs though. The USA is just more polite about it.
Russia? Is just as close to communism as the sun is to being cold.
We don’t disagree on this and I never stated otherwise. You have very clearly strawmanned me.
I put forth the idea that an oligarchy where the oligarchs are somewhat nerfed by infighting and changing of power between presidents is marginally better than an oligarchy with a dictator that cannot be removed.
American oligarchs are barely infighting. At the end of the day, the capitalist class has class solidarity, even if they quibble over abortion. There’s a communist term (you say you are fine with actual communism, so you shouldnt have a problem with it since its a term Marx invented) called “dictatorship of the bourgeoise”. Thats what Americans live under. The difference between that and a more overt autocracy is basically politeness about it. I won’t deny that the United States has better queer rights than Russia (for now… I’m not confident in how long that will continue to be the case, I am deathly afraid the United States is quickly sliding towards fascism) and I would rather live here than Russia as a bi man. On that we don’t disagree. We disagree on the geopolitical implications of the War in Ukraine. We do not disagree that Russia’s government is bad, or even that Putin did a bad thing by invading.
Any time in history a dictator starts invading, it’s never just one country. We literally just went through this with Hitler in WW2. Germany is just reuniting culturally similar people, and everyone looks the other way, until he isn’t.
This isn’t about just Ukraine. It’s not the first or the last. Russia would happily conquer US territory if there was no one to stop him.
So what’s your goal? Disband NATO, let the US fall?
Let China and Russia carve up the US between them?
Despite every valid criticism of the US, and they are endless, you admit it’s better to live as a citizen of the US than under a homophobic dictator.
My goal is creating the material conditions for revolution, and for that to happen the global south needs to come out from under the imperialist heel of the United States and its allies. It is a completely necessary step towards communism. That does not mean I think that Russia is communist like you said before. It just means that I think the US and allies are the current greatest evil in the world and I support things that weaken its power. That is pretty much the ML view of geopolitics at its root. If the US and Russia were both equally or near-equally bad imperialist powers doing equally bad things around the world, I would feel differently, but they aren’t.
And I don’t think there’s any evidence that Putin is an insane megalomaniac to that extent. With Hitler there was evidence, it was always part of his ideology. I definitely think its its wild to imply that he has ambitions conquering the US or anything like that. Thats just not based in reality. Based on the evidence I’ve seen, and the peace deals he has offered only to be vetoed by NATO, I dont even think he seeks to reconquer all of Ukraine. I think his invasion, as much as I disagree with it, was mostly motivated by Donbass and NATO encirclement.
And I don’t think there’s any evidence that Putin is an insane megalomaniac to that extent
See, this is where you are completely out of touch of reality.
There’s no evidence that Putin ISNT another wannabe Hitler. He’s a dictator that can’t be removed because he kills off all his political rivals. He’s a liar who will pretend his invasion force is just running training exercises. He’s threatened to use nukes, even though it’s basically just mutually assured destruction.
And sure, Putin now wants “peace” because this war is insanely costly for him, everyone expected Ukraine to fall within days. Putin was supposed to conquer Ukraine before NATO could act. So Putin has no choice but peace if he wants to keep the 1/5 he’s already conquered. Pleace, that is, until he starts running training exercises along the border again.
The real question of the day for y’all is, why is Russia conquering neighboring countries instead of making alliances? Why didn’t Russia and Ukraine start a Eastern European Treaty Organization? A treaty would have massively reinforced Russia against NATO without gutting it’s military. I don’t see any benefit for Russia turning it into a way except for Putin being an expansion thirsty megalomaniac.
You ignorant gnome. We hate Russsia more than you. Russia is the liberal democratic nation built by the US from the corpse of our comunist forebears. I’d ask if you ever read a history book but your Midwest tag proves the only ones you got were written by Haliburton so it isn’t your fault you are the way you are. If I wver visit your region I must try to trap you I in a circle of salt and force you to actually read some theory.
Russia is not liberal or democratic. It is a corrupt capitalist oligarchy/dictatorship with limited human rights. It was built by the US from the corpse of the USSR.
Y’all claim to hate Russia but also spend a suspicious amount of time defending it.
Absolutely not. America is more liberal and democratic, even if marginally. America has not had a single dictator in power for 2 decades and it’s actually fairly okay to be gay in America.
I would 1000% rather live in the US than live in Russia.
The US has more money. There are for sure places where there that is not true. As history progresses we will see which way America grows. I have no reason to expect it will become anything other than more russsia like as conditions intensify.
Literally just existing, chilling, sprinkling unexploded cluster bombs throughout the country side for Ukrainian children to step on for generations to come, vibing.
Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny
Russia is America’s every bad quality dialed up to 12 on steroids. Russia actually manages to make America look good, that’s just what a steaming pile of garbage Russia is. The bar is so low even America can get over it.
Russia starting a war with 350,000 casualties and threatening to nuke the West is not literally just existing. If Russia wanted to literally just exist, they never would have literally invaded another country while lying about “training exercises”.
You’re pro-Russian terrorism, it’s not a good look.
NATO encircled a world power and for the last couple decades have worked to instigate a war that has led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people on the gamble that Russia would fall and allow the west to loot the country, exactly as they plan to loot a war torn Ukraine. For capitalism.
NATO started this war by intentionally instigating Russia into conflict, using Ukraine as a proxy. Multiple times NATO have stood in the way of peace talks. That’s terrorism.
Russia, defending ethnically Russian peoples against a state government hostile to their continued existence, and guarding against being encircled by NATO is not terrorism it’s kindergarten level geopolitics
In case you’re unaware, the “ethnically Russian” people being mentioned in the previous comment aren’t Ukraine as a whole but the citizens of the Donbas who have been the victims of an ongoing genocide by Ukraine since ~2014.
This is true. Maybe nato has a history of behavior we could investigate to see what their likely actions are going forward… Yeah, turns out it is a literal nazi army created to do war crimes to keep capitlaism strong.
This is true. Maybe nato has a history of behavior we could investigate to see what their likely actions are going forward… Yeah, turns out it is a literal nazi army created to do war crimes to keep capitlaism strong.
Literally makes no sense because capitalism would still be just as strong without NATO.
I play “count the fallacies” with the comments. So far I’ve seen: ad homonim; what-about-ism; strawman ; appeal to popularity ; appeal to authority ; hasty generalization / ecological fallacy
Lol I don’t even bother with reading anything they say at all. I just block anyone who’s on Hexbear, I must have half the instance blocked. And my experience browsing Lemmy has been so much better for it!
The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That’s all it took to make the worst people on reddit pit over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.
Every wonder why this kind of liberal belief never just naturally develops in new communities like ours? Notice how they always have to insert themselves from outside and takeover modding to have any relevance? Yeah, that.
“Everyone knows that the left and the right are the same and that the REASONABLE MODERATE CENTER is best! Right? Right? It’s not as though Biden is a war criminal rapist segregationist and virtually the twin brother of Trump, right? America might have some problems (ongoing slavery, genocide, imperialism, civilizational suicide via climate change) but it’s still overall a force for good, right???”
I get that you guys love seeing trump do stupid shit and abuse his power as president, because it vindicates your view of the US government, but still, the asshole that tells his fans to harass people and shits on rule of law is objectively worse than the ones who didn’t, please. I thought one of hexbear’s redeeming qualities was at least anti-homophobia, anti-misogyny, etc. This whole “trump is no worse than anyone else” is just crypto-trumpism and one example of why you guys are accused of being the lefty version of MAGAts.
Roe v. Wade was undone and LGBTQ+ rights are collapsing with Biden and the Democrats running the country. Biden also regularly sends the police to deport and/or imprison anyone who isn’t white. Nobody loves or funds the 100% nazi police more than Biden; Biden has actually signed MORE drilling permits than Trump. Biden and Trump are fascists, as are you for excusing them.
I’m frightened to ask about what their positions are on any policy at all. Let me guess: do what amerikkka says or your are helping putler. That kind of “marxist”?
Your assumption that Ukraine is an independent country is already an implicit endorsement of American imperialism and slavery. Ukraine has not been independent since the Maidan Coup in 2014. There are recordings of Victoria Nuland confirming this; to deny it means that you are living in a fantasy realm, one paid for with the blood of slaves in the global south. And when you recognize that American imperialism and settler colonialism is a boot on the neck of the global south, you likewise understand that anyone fighting it deserves our critical support, even if they are not angels. Besides, even if everything liberals say about Russia is true, the Iraq War alone is and was a far greater crime than anything [the liberal Harry Potter-esque fantasy of] Putin could dream of. And besides, wasn’t the modern nation state of Russia created by American liberals in the first place? How much money did Clinton give Yeltsin in the 1990s?
My Ukrainian friends disagree and I’ll have to defer to their judgement seeing they live there.
Which Ukrainian friends? The ones with swastikas tattooed to their foreheads?
Your idea of “independent” is also a country subjugated to Russia. What an improvement! Not withstanding that Putin’s own war declaration speech denied the existence of a Ukrainian cultural identity, calling them all Russians. You are literally supporting someone who consider an entire culture as lesser not worthy of existence. Wow, such great ideals you hold!
This is projection and genocide denial, but scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. Why did the Maidan coup government ban the Russian language in Ukraine and wage a campaign of extermination in the east claiming thousands of lives? Why did this government construct a statue to Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera in Lviv? Why are all socialist parties outlawed in Ukraine? Why does the Ukrainian constitution make reference to preserving the genetic purity of Ukrainian blood? Isn’t all of this strongly suggestive of the possibility that Ukraine is, in fact, run by Nazis, as almost everyone outside of the imperial core (and nearly half of Ukrainians themselves) believes?
You delude yourself into thinking Russia is “fighting your fight”, all I see in your argument is one boot replacing the other. If only you could live under the yoke of Russia to see what kind of nightmare you’d be living under.
It’s extremely clear to me as a Jewish person that anyone fighting Nazis is a potential friend. But maybe for someone whose grandparents were probably Nazis themselves, it’s not so clear. I’m afraid of asking you your opinion about the Roma people or immigrants fleeing capitalist devastation in Africa or the Middle East—I’m guessing your ideas and actions happen to just coincidentally line up with those of Nazis in these cases as well?
You delude yourself “one greater evil justifies another unrelated evil”, that’s a really messed up moral compass. Do you also support Israel’s actions then because what happened to them in ww2? What evils are allowed to happen, and which ones aren’t in your strange moral compass.
Israel should not exist. I always support the world’s workers—while you support the tiny minority of people who enslave them and drink their blood.
Oh my god dude. I asked your opinion about these issues, and guessed about your beliefs. You still haven’t answered my numerous questions because you have no answers—this is why you are so angry and so defensive—you are still trapped inside the invisible prison of liberal ideology. You (almost certainly) believe that Russia should be exterminated—sorry, I mean, their government should be overthrown and replaced with amerikkka-backed definitely-not-Nazis, who will certainly have the best interests of the Russian people at heart. This probably means you feel the same way about various underclasses around the world, including homeless gay people, including homeless trans people, including all the LGBTQ+ people exterminated in amerikkka’s recent imperialist wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc. Oh wait, I forgot, you said you were against america’s actions abroad—although you trust america in Ukraine and you trust the american media that lied about Iraq. If I’m mistaken, please enlighten me!
More baseless accusations, I’ll laugh about it next week when I go party with my Russian friends. They’ll be extremely joyed to hear I have secretly hated them the past decade.
Refusing to answer the question yet again. What should happen to Russia? Answer the question without sounding like a Nazi. You can’t!
Dude you told me I’m a Roma hater, what a fucking guess, I literally donate to them, I interact with them especially whenever I travel through Central & Eastern Europe. My boyfriend’s grandma even housed them, ffs. Get the fuck out of here with your small-minded hatred hidden behind “I’m just guessing”.
“I throw some money their way (at tax-deductible do-nothing nonprofits) sometimes, my many numerous friends—whom I definitely have and are not made up at all—support them, now stop asking me about what should be done with them because I cannot answer this question just as I cannot answer any of your other questions!”
Fuck that noise I told you my stance in my first response to you and you went “hur hur Marxist party must be kkk”, go be a better person first, it’s not my job to make you one.
The SDP ordered the Freikorps to murder Rosa Luxemburg, I’m guessing this is the “marxist” party you voted for. I know you’ll deny it, but you’re so much more transparent than you realize. You’re only against amerikkka when it comes to issues that the corporate press gave up on supporting many years ago. Wherever it fully counts, you are 100% onboard with whatever the nazis in the CIA are telling you via whatever bourgeois media you lap up like the running dog you are. This is why you ignore the nazis running the USA and whatever european shithole you live in and focus all your ire on Russia instead.
You’re not answering questions again because you don’t have any answers. If your Ukrainian friends are making excuses for a government run by Nazis, I have some bad news for you.
You know the stele to Banderas in Lviv was constructed in 2007 right?
Planning for the monument began almost the instant the USA succeeded in its long-term project of annihilating the USSR, causing millions of deaths, way back in 1993. (See page 3.) It’s almost as though the idea of Ukrainian nationalism is fundamentally united to Nazism!
But even then, let’s say what you say is right, does that mean all Ukrainians are Nazis because one government build a monument? Does that mean the average person deserves to be bombed by Russia? Does it make right the broken families I’ve had the displeasure of interacting with who have lost their children to missiles fired by Russia?
I never said that all Ukrainians are Nazis. I said that their government is run by Nazis, and that people excusing a Nazi government (like yourself) are likewise Nazis.
I’m not sure why you care so much about the Ukrainian people though when you don’t give a damn about the millions that have perished (and the tens of millions who have had their lives destroyed) thanks to America’s wars subsequent to 9/11. If you cared about these people, surely you would at least raise an eyebrow when America orders you to support their NATO imperialism without question? Surely you would think that maybe mass murderers shouldn’t be trusted?
barely any were constructed
Dude you are such a joke. How many Nazi monuments do you pass during your daily commute? ONE Nazi monument is too much! There shouldn’t be any monuments to Nazism anywhere! Why do liberals have such trouble understanding that Nazism is not only bad, but also suicide! Don’t you remember how Hitler’s life ended? And who drove him to that point?
It’s interesting you bring up Utkin, who hasn’t been seen in public since 2016. When Chinese tennis players vanish for a day, liberals around the world have tantrums and meltdowns, but when the Russians were embarrassed by this Nazi and possibly even made him disappear, total silence from liberals, especially given the fact that public displays of Nazism are illegal in Russia and encouraged in the USA. Highly interesting. But there are actually Nazis in Russia, they’re just working for the CIA.
But why are you allowing statues of genociders in your country then? Seems a bit hypocritical.
Europe / Northwest Asia really isn’t sending its best. Death to amerikkka.
Who cares when he was last seen, I care that he was in recent history awarded by Putin “the Denazifyer”.
Why hasn’t he been seen in seven years? If Russia is so proud of him, where did he go?
lol, further projection because you know you are being a hypocrite. I haven’t said a good thing about a Nazi, but you’re intent in even explaining away one awarded by Putin.
Your supposed refusal to take sides on the conflict is obviously in support of the status quo. You fool nobody but yourself.
“Hey you haven’t discussed the other tragedies in the universe, clearly you are soulless” what a tool response. Go deal with the tragedy that’s unfolding now, or are you of the opinion “if one get’s to commit atrocities, so can I!”
Who caused the genocide in Iraq? Is your home country by any chance allied to this nation constructed on genocide and slavery?
Ah yes, everything I don’t like is the CIA. Russia funding Nazi’s in Europe? CIA!
Reading sources is apparently asking too much of this extremely intelligent and highly educated person. But if you don’t read, it’s only a matter of time before you find yourself excusing Nazis the way you do. You are really, truly, deeply in over your head, unaware of NATO being founded by “former” Nazis, unaware that the CIA rescued thousands of Nazis after WW2, unaware of the existence of Operation Gladio, unaware that the CIA has admitted to controlling the corporate media you devour (Operation Mockingbird), yet thinking that you can lecture someone who has actually done the reading and knows about these things. Who is the American here exactly?
Ironic you keep yelling at me about it because I couldn’t stop 9/11, you could’ve though, you’re an American. That’s on your conscious.
Dude how could I have stopped 9/11? I was 12. I don’t know why you’re running away, I really want to hear this. Also explain please how capitalism is not authoritarian. Then let’s hear about the slavery and genocide your own country is perpetrating in the global south! Which companies in your home country are “investing” in the poorest nations on Earth?
I’m going to let someone more educated on the geopolitics involved handle the rest of this (hopefully someone will) but i really want to zero in on this because.
there are like, 2 cishet people on all of Hexbear. Its like the most queer space on the internet thats not explicitly only for queer people… It is AGRESSIVLY pro-trans, and purged the slightest hints of transphobia in its early days. The admin team is 100% queer i’m pretty sure.
We think the oppression of queer people in Russia is bad. Whatever support an individual Hexbear has for Russia, its not for Putin’s regime or the Russian government. It is, as you yourself say, opposition to NATO. Again, I’m not going to get into the why of that, but please don’t imply that we support the Russian government’s oppression of queer people.
Spare me the self-righteousness, if “the people I was rude too were rude back to me” is something you can describe as “the most unsafe space I have ever encountered” without feeling deeply embarrassed, then you have no business trying to pontificate about what actually marginalised people endure. No amount of cope about how you’re totally definitely not big mad, but your girlfriend in Canada is, will change that.
English isn’t my first language but elaborate how “Russia needs our critical support” isn’t a support of Russia.
So you didn’t know what it meant, but you used it to insult someone anyway?
It means support from a place of criticism, in the sense of “I don’t agree with them in general, but align on certain things”.
Look, I’ll back up a bit and try to be more sincere here. There are three points I would like you to consider. The first is that your own behaviour has not exactly been free of toxicity. The second is that we on hexbear are used to liberals coming in with naked bad faith hostility, so we’ve, unfortunately fallen to the habit of responding in kind. This leads into my third point; the hostility you describe sounds basically like the bog standard normal that I’ve experienced when trying to converse in mainstream liberal spaces; Hexbear is one of the few spaces where I’m not showered with abuse for the crime of having a political alignment outside the overton window of a country I’m not even from.
Sounds like someone else has already explained the critical support thing to you, I didnt really understand the term at first either and English IS my first language, so I actually understand this one.
I hope you can see that my comrade’s defensive stance is because of past experiances and not anything personal.
I actually dont disagree that people here sometimes make unfair assumptions about the person they’re talking to. I remember the human and understand where they’re coming from and why that assume that though (past experiences with people who are like that). I wish my friends would try to remember the human more too, but I get why they can forget because of their experiences. I hope that makes sense.
I can actually understand all that very well. Sorry about your negative experience
I do want to mention one thing though
it’s this that made me consider your community dangerous, especially for minority groups.
Our “weaponized anger” is quiet frequently used in defense of minority groups, particularly trans people. She’s gone now but one of our original admins, TransComrade69, was militantly defensive of trans people and it really shaped how our community formed. We also do our best to do the same for other queer people, bipoc, the disabled and nuerodiverse, women, the poor, and (most relevant to the arguments we get into here) people from the global south.
But I actually do understand how our community’s stance can be offputting for some people and wouldnt recommend it to just anyone, even leftists.
I’ve been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don’t think I’ve ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.
If you pop into that users history, you’ll see that the interacting they’re talking about is whining at me for a couple of days because I called them a racist.
Not really. You just use the word ‘racist’ as a general insult to people who disagree with you. I don’t really take it as an offense since it means nothing in that context, but using the word ‘racist’ ignoring its actual meaning is problematic.
Because mongrel is not a racial slur. You made it a racial slur. I could argue that the word Bastard is a racial slur by the same logic. And given enough time and effort, you would believe it if all you see is race.
All you need to know is that it was not used with a racist intent. The word itself was not even used in a context where it could be interpreted as racist. I mean, can you even answer which group of people the word was racist against based on your interpretation?
Negotiations? It’s clear after the attempt at a “counter offensive” that Ukraine do not have the ability to gain any significant territory, and they are just throwing lives and equipment into a void of mines and trenches. And Ukraine is not going to gain the ability to break though these fortifications anytime soon, I cannot see western nations giving Ukraine the weaponry required (an air force is the main missing component needed for NATO style combined arms tactics to function).
Unless Ukraine can find a way to convince western nations to give them the equipment required to make breakthroughs (very unlikely), they are stuck in an attrition war with Russia. And I don’t see any path to victory in an attrition war against Russia. The article we are commenting on is one of the major reasons why, they’re having to fire people just to get more conscripts. At that point, negotiation is the best possible outcome.
So easy to beat someone when you leave out half the sentence:
I wrote “Tell me one thing Hitlers regime did that Putins regime hasn’t done on a smaller scale”.
And yes, Putin hasn’t done the holocaust, because they thankfully aren’t well enough organized to do that.
The rhetoric is there as I already mentioned. The smaller scale “disappearances” of civilians Nacht und Nebel style and experiments on larger scale exterminations like Olevnika are there.
Word plays won’t get you anywhere.
And if it it racist to point out that Putins regime is evil but thankfully dumb then so be it.
Someone would probably tried to arrest me for hate speak against the nazis too.
If you’re so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don’t you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don’t want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.
It’s always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.
They’re happy to have eastern men die forced into it and were probably the same people happy to shame them for trying to flee not to die. I’m so heartbroken for the androcide so happily encouraged by libs. I’ve seen gross comments from lib men how they will be happy to take over Ukrainian windows. Their kind is rotten to the core. :(
This is about cracking down on leaders who haven’t thrown out leaders under them who have been corrupt.
This is a good thing.
And that whole argument: why aren’t you on the frontlines is so tired, and didn’t make sense in the first place.
Who wants an old Norwegian who barely knows both Russian and Ukrainian on the frontlines when he can be at home financing drones and telling his government to step up support?
My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they’ll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like “it’s food time right? Right? But the noise means food…” Regardless of any further context.
That’s not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don’t want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky’s response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I’ve been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader – I like the guy, and I’m inclined to trust his judgement. He’s done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don’t.
You don’t see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?
I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he’s kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.
NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don’t believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.
if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won’t) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the ‘aid’ they’ve received—from the ‘highly ethical’ EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.
and we already know what the cost of these foreign ‘‘aid’’ packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.
their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.
But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?
GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don’t doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.
I agree, I don’t think it’s particularly noteworthy except for the fact it was all regional recruitment chiefs at once.
This suggests either a high level of corruption (I don’t think it would be more than other places in the conditions) or a power play between elites in the military.
Alternatively their allies have told them to do so.
Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship
Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he’s even interested in that, he certainly wasn’t terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there’s going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there’s going to be a Zelenskyy who’s first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!
China’s only politician to be named in a sprawling investigation of millions of confidential financial documents known as the Pandora Papers is a female entrepreneur who the report says set up an offshore firm to trade U.S. stocks.
For a parallel the libs can understand: all other allegations aside, it’s extremely clear that Hunter Biden wouldn’t have been on the board of a Ukrainian gas company in the first place if his last name wasn’t Biden.
Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You’re judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?
No. I am comparing an actor playing a part to an actor playing a part.
Which careers pass your “ok to be voted into presidency” test?
Career doesn’t matter. Its who holds their purse strings that matters. Same man who paid Zelensky the actor, paid for Zelensky the president’s campaign. (and also funded neo-nazi paramilitary groups) Same boss. Just a bigger billing. Same job different character.
Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.
I mean there are literally videos of Ukrainian men being kidnapped so they can be conscripted into the military. The user you are replying to is clearly making a dark joke about that.
Two countries at war. One is the aggressor and other is the victim of aggression. But of course hexbear.net comrades would want the victim country to act all up to standard, and ignore how the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
The confederacy also considered themselves to be the victims of a war of aggression, in fact some schools in the south still teach the civil war as the “war of northern aggression” even though they started that shit
Nazis are never the victims, if anyone attacks them first it’s just self defense
the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
Conscripting prisoners and shit is also abhorrent. We shouldn’t have to say it anytime we criticize what Ukraine is doing though. Especially since what Ukraine is doing is the subject of the fucking thread.
“Boot camp” meaning some dumbass NATO instructor showing you how to kick open doors and do counter-insurgency for 2 weeks before being sent off to run into a minefield
Drafts should be considered a war crime against your own people. If you can’t defend your country without a draft, it doesn’t deserve to be defended because there are obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
I have the opposite view. A country at war should have the draft, and there should be no exceptions, so that the politicians who send other people’s children off to fight also have to send their own.
Most soldiers in a “professional” army are there because their families are poor and they have few other options to make a living.
Make declaration of war a mandatory vote for every citizen. Anyone who votes “yes” (or illegally abstains) gets registered for the draft. Anyone who votes “no” is unregistered.
I know it’s not really feasible because governments need to be able to react swiftly in times of war. But these days with computers and cell phones, there’s very little reason that the government couldn’t push a “go download our secure voting app/visit this link to cast your vote” notification via the emergency alert broadcasting system.
How do you reckon it would work when it comes to age? Is the vote limited just to people of military age? Does this mean that whether or not to declare war effectively falls in the hands of ~18 - 30 year olds?
Or is it open to everyone and even some old warhawk could be drafted? Are handicapped people not allowed to vote? Women that don’t meet combat standards?
There is always the option to draft them into some sort of non-combat role. But if you knew you were only going for a non-combat role, it could be a lot easier to vote “yes”.
There will always be exceptions, for example for disabilities or medical conditions. Most of those exceptions will be more accessible to wealthy or influential families that can afford to pay off doctors than poorer families.
Trump and Biden both avoided the draft with “1-Y” (medical) exemption. Keep in mind that more than half the 27 million eligible males were exempted or disqualified for some reason, so it’s not as if this was something only politicians did.
Lack of a draft is almost directly and solely responsible for the current quagmire of the US military - when we had a draft, normal people were pulled and had to serve with other normal people. They had real lives to go back to. They had family and friends who would listen to them and write their representatives to complain if the use of those human resources was inappropriate. Seeing body bags flying home and a televised razing of a foreign jungle turned a lot of people off from war. And they made their voices heard.
Now, the only people being asked to pay attention are career military professionals. They often do not have a job or life outside of the military to tie them to normal life. They've also gotten smarter about where they fly corpses in, so the news can't provide a solid day-by-day count of the wasted lives. These folks aren't pushing back against the worst excesses of the military, because their college benefit or their pension require them to shut up and just do what they're told.
There's a great documentary called Sir! No, Sir! about the vibrant protest movement from within the military, driven mostly by draftees during Vietnam.
I don't disagree with your initial reasoning, but there's a different take that says that what we have allowed is for the worst of us to control the policy for all of us, with nearly no external oversight.
This is a difficult problem to solve for a society though. The army is needed, because it’s what allows your country to exist. In time of peace, draft is really not optimal, because people are taken a year of their life for absolutely nothing. But the army need to keep its structure alive and functioning, or there’ll be nothing when it’s needed.
The army of professionals is a good solution, and they do a hard job to keep an important piece of the state alive when no one cares about it.
Ultimately I think it’s better if poor people make the core of the army because it means ultimately the safety of the nation is in their hands. Still, culture of the military men should be better taken care of, and elitism of the command structure should be fought.
Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
The problem is that it isn’t a separate issue, it’s the same body (Congress, with WH support) that imposes these problems and then offers “solutions” to the impacted population in exchange for acting as a jackbooted thug overseas.
I would be more likely to go the other way starship troopers style only those with the character to defend their country should have the right to vote in that country. Those leeching off the system and letting others doing the difficult things shouldn’t be rewarded
First thing was that no draft is stupid and even something like starship troopers needing to serve the country in some way to be worth of a vote isn’t the worst idea in the world so it’s better than that. You don’t think there is anything at all in having some means of people that are willing to do more for their country be it military or otherwise should have more of a vote than those that do nothing and would leave it the second it isn’t doing enough for them? Some people want to make their country and the world a better place, why should they get less than someone that does nothing.
I’m not arguing that Turing should have been on the front line or that the Bevin Boys weren’t serving their country and willing to do everything possible to help their country and should have equality. Just those trying to escape when things go bad shouldn’t have the same rights when things go well off the backs of others.
Dude “You should have to provide service to the abstract idea that is ‘the nation’ in order to get your human rights” is just fascism, no matter how you try to spin it.
starship troopers the movie was a literal send-up of fascism and you are sitting here arguing that we should do fascism so absurd it is the realm of actual parody
or you’re advocating for the book’s straight up fascism. either way, you should eat a bullet, nazi.
Heinlein was a fascist, full stop. Verhoeven didn’t even finish the book before he directed the movie because he hated the fascist ideology in it and tried to satirize it in the movie but both the actors involved and a lot of audience members missed the satire.
Absolute state of the world that the view that people should defend their country is facism. I’m sure the allies didn’t see themselves as fascist in WW2
You don’t think the allies out people in jail for not helping with the war effort?
Right tell me how every example of “you need to do something for your country to get citizenship” is fascism? Plenty have people have argued that you need to be educated to vote or to have land to vote or whatever. They are shit systems yes but they aren’t fascism.
You’re just using an over used internet buzzword. It’s going to lose all meaning eventually.
Obviously not read starship troopers thet make it very clear that anyone can serve and will be accommodated. And they make it very clear that being in the military isn’t the only way to serve.
It’s just above providing for your country and earning the right to vote.
draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on “Imperial adventure” while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood…
The elites will just dodge the draft anyway. At least without a draft, a sufficiently unpopular war is more likely to be shut down by people refusing to enlist. Also, you can’t advocate for slavery by arguing that it solves some other problem.
Volunteer service means wars are waged outside of public consciousness now. The Afghanistan war went on for 20 years and was essentially invisible to most people in the US. The Fed openly trying to increase unemployment is at least partially motivated by the military recruitment issues going on right now. Volunteer wars are fueled by the lives of desperate poor people.
I’m not sure there are no situations in which draft’s are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.
100% agree. Me presenting it as a choice by a single Commissar for War is more tongue-in-cheek. The answer whether or we should do it is contextual but my point is that there are clear cases which I can imagine in which drafting would be clearly justified, even if of only certain groups.
But responding to a question of whether or not we should do something by saying it would be decided democratically is evading the actual question of what you would put forward or support as appropriate policy in such a scenario. If everyone one responded that way then nothing would be decided.
In this hypothetical wouldn’t the boogies and Kulacks would be in Gulags already? A bunch would be willing to sign on if it meant they might get an early release after the war. No draft necessary.
I’m really not convinced that they would normally prefer to fight fascists on the front lines than to stay in a gulag, uncomfortable as the latter might be.
Add comment