‘Call of Duty’ Doesn’t Just Depict Bad History—It’s Pro-War Propaganda

I just started playing COD Black Ops Cold War because I got it through my PlayStation Plus subscription and wanted to try it out. I’ve previously played some others like Modern Warfare (1 and 2) and WWII. While it always felt a bit over the top and propaganda-ish, I really liked it for the blockbuster feeling and just turning your mind off and enjoying the set pieces. However, Cold War has a section in Vietnam and I suddenly started feeling really uncomfortable and just turned the game off.

In WWII you can easily feel like the “defender”, and even Modern Warfare felt like fighting a very specific organisation that wanted to kill millions. Here however it just becomes so hard to explain why I’m happily mowing down hundreds of clearly Vietnamese locals that I was unable to turn my mind off and just enjoy the spectacle.

I turned to the internet and started browsing and found this article and I really agree with what the author is saying.

I don’t know if I will be continuing the campaign or not, but I just feel that I don’t want to support these kinds of minimizations of military interventions.

I just wish there were more high budget / setpiece games that don’t glorify real life wars. Spec Ops The Line was amazing in that sense, but it’s also quite old already.

I would love to hear your opinions on this subject.

Maajmaaj,
@Maajmaaj@lemmy.ca avatar

Back when I enjoyed call of duty, I never played the campaign, because I knew it was fantastical horseshit. As a vet, I find it disrespectful to the ones that passed away to attempt to change history via propaganda in this way.

Fizz,
@Fizz@mastodon.nz avatar

@knokelmaat As someone who used to play call of duty I don't think anyone plays the campaign and thinks its anything more than fantasy.

murtaza64,

Young and impressionable kids? I started playing the original MW2 when I was 11.

WarmSoda,

You thought it depicted reality?

knokelmaat,

Even if you know it’s fiction you get the feeling that you are on the “good” side, which may colour your perception on the US military interventions.

WarmSoda,

True. The teenage mutant ninja turtles colored my perception of giant crime fighting amphibious creatures when I was young…

knokelmaat,

Why are you giving an example that is not based on a real war or context?

Of course this doesn’t influence your opinion of real life as the subject doesn’t refer to real life (as you so clearly describe with the “giant crime fighting amphibious creatures”).

WarmSoda,

Because it’s the same thing.
Are you unable to distinguish fiction from reality? Do you also believe GI Joe was real? Does Grand Thieft Auto make you want to steal cars and beat up prostitutes?

It’s a video game. You have much much bigger problems to worry about if you’re having trouble disconnecting from it in your mind.

prole,

What a brain rot take. They are children, my guy. I know you think you’re the smartest 12 year old in you class, but not everyone is as clever as you .

Or maybe this is just you telling everyone that you know don’t know how propaganda works.

WarmSoda,

You apparently have much much bigger problems, my guy.

termus,
@termus@beehaw.org avatar

I’m not your guy, buddy.

WarmSoda,

I’m your buddy, pal!

knokelmaat,

Are you saying that fiction has no influence on how we view the world?

I’m sorry, but that is just wrong. Using fictional works as propaganda is a thing, so it most certainly has an effect on the public.

Other research papers after a quick search, these indicate influence between fiction and beliefs/opinions of the consumers:

journals.sagepub.com/doi/…/1532673X12453758

cambridge.org/…/3853105561CB840EAB79258DC2575849

researchgate.net/…/45847098_The_influence_of_tele…

WarmSoda,

No I’m saying it’s a videogame.

All this was hashed out 20 years ago, man. You’re late to the party. Sorry.

knokelmaat,

Ok let me spell it out:

I know this is a videogame.

I know the difference between games and reality.

I do however know that people get indirectly influenced by the media they consume. (See my other comment for scientific sources on this).

Playing violent games does not make you violent.

It’s the tone that matters. The Last of Us is very violent but never makes it feel cool. Uncharted is very over the top and enemies are just nameless, raceless grunts. The story in GTA often makes it clear how fucked up the crime world is.

That is my issue with the Vietnam scene I was playing earlier. This was not like Uncharted based in a completely fictional conflict. This was based in a real war that the US participated in, killing real people, and you’re just there being the awesome hero killing locals by the dozens.

I know this will not change your mind.

This is my last attempt at being reasonable and trying to understand each other.

I know you will answer with some short personal remark or minimize all the points I have made instead of having an actual conversation.

I hope you prove me wrong, otherwise this will be my last response to you.

monsterpiece42,

You’re making a solid and valid point OP. The other guy is being a fuck. I wouldn’t pay him much mind but I do admire your willingness to explain your angle!

knokelmaat,

Thanks, this message means a lot to me!

WarmSoda,

You still never answered my question.
You thought it depicted reality?

irmoz, (edited )

You can’t act like media doesn’t help inform your biases. Sure, your opinion on nonexistent crime fighting turtles may not have changed, since that is complete fantasy. But your view on crime itself?

I saw Batman as a kid, and, though Batman obviously isn’t real, crime certainly is, and so are urban decay and bad neighbourhoods in cities. Seeing Batman take out goons and thugs made be believe those goons and thugs existed, and that I’d be in danger if I went out at night. More scared, in fact, because I knew Batman wouldn’t save me, since he isn’t real. The Batman films made Batman feel necessary, and his absence made the world scarier.

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

Did you think it was real?

kitonthenet,

That’s not incompatible with the thesis, fantasy can and does have a point of view

irmoz,

Exactly. For an extreme example, to “fantasise” about CSA requires a very warped POV.

prole,

You forget that literal children play these games

TwilightVulpine,

And also US puts out enough propaganda about their role in wars that enough grown-ass adults have very idealized views about them.

Silejonu,
@Silejonu@kbin.social avatar

The US Army would disagree, and I'm certain they know better than you. They literally use CoD in their recruitment campaigns.

Fizz,
@Fizz@mastodon.nz avatar

@Silejonu @knokelmaat The article that you linked does not support your argument at all. It mentions that the US Army tried to make a video game to recruit people but its a game no one has heard of. Most of their budget is used to sponsor esports teams and streamers. That is not relevant to the propaganda in the CoD campaign.

saigot,

I know people who thought the infamous “no russian” mission was based on a real thing.

sobersquid,

Perhaps my memory is clouded, as it has been a long time since I had played a Call of Duty game, but I believe there was a time when most of it felt anti-war, in that you would die frequently and often, then be shown a quote that was about how there are no winners in war, providing a sharp contrast between the actions you were taking and the grin reality of what was occuring. After I believe Modern Warfare 2, the CEOs of Infinity War stepped down, and since then the quotes stopped being more anti-war, and much more pro-war, highlighting heroism and such in the quotes. I always viewed it as a studio change and just stopped playing after that, feeling the games were just missing the mark and farming more and more of that sweet multiplayer money.

glockenspiel,

Citations Needed had a mini series where they discussed why this happened. The US government will give material support to movie and game studios in exchange for some creative control over the content. That’s why so many movies with military equipment in it are rabidly pro-war; the studios don’t get access to the real equipment without the government’s support, and they don’t sign off on extremely critical scripts.

COD and similar games don’t just pop out of a void and still strive for some semblance of realism. That is a huge selling point after all. So the government gets involved, even if in little ways. Same way China gets to censor movies, either by omission or fundamentally changing things, around the world.

orca,
@orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts avatar

This is the same reason TV shows like NCIS get 500 seasons.

oddspinnaker,

Ooooh, I feel dumb that I didn’t pick up on this before.

I knew about movies (Top Gun and all) but not other things, for whatever reason.

comicallycluttered,

The beginning of the “campaign” in Battlefield 1 was really good about this.

SPOILERS AHEAD ^(I know there are spoiler tags, but they don’t work on my app.)

Opening begins with the following:

Battlefield 1 is based upon events that unfolded over one hundred years ago.

More than 60 million soldiers fought in “The War to End All Wars”.

It ended nothing. Yet it changed the world forever.

What follows is frontline combat.

You are not expected to survive.

You’re then thrown into the start of a regular battle. This is the game, right? Cool, let’s shoot some bad guys.

Nope. Doesn’t matter how good you are, you will die. After you get killed, the name of the soldier and how many years he’d lived are shown on-screen.

Then you switch perspectives to a different kind of battle (eg. artillery, air, tank, etc.). Same thing. This goes on a few times.

Eventually you reach a point where it’s just you, face to face with a lone German soldier, your rifles pointed at each other. Both soldiers just lower their guns, realizing the futility of it all.

Intro ends.

The rest of the game is the typical military FPS stuff we’re used to, but that intro was pretty great about how war has no winners when it comes to individuals on the battlefield. We all lose in the end, whether we live or not.

thoro,

Yeah there was a little bit of that in the original WW2 games: CoD 1-3 and the expansion games and console exclusives.

ShadowRam,

Would you define this as your "Are we the baddies?" moment?

knokelmaat,

Well, not really as I’m European and have no connection to any side in the Vietnam war.

I just feel that if your game is based on real life wars than you should be very careful to give a nuanced view of the situation. Even allowing a campaign on both sides would be interesting if executed well.

Can_you_change_your_username,

French colonization of Vietnam was what the VCP were fighting against at the beginning of the war. The Soviet Union and China got involved to help kick France and Britain out and US involvement came when it was clear France and Britain had lost the war. But other than that and the coalition troops I guess Europe wasn't involved in the Vietnam War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Indochina

knokelmaat,

I knew about this. As a Belgian though, I don’t believe we had a lot of presence there.

Sadly, we have done our share of horrible stuff on foreign soil (but we haven’t made any videogames about it)

Carlo,

(but we haven’t made any videogames about it)

I tried to find one, but it looks like you’re right. This is the closest I could find, and they seem to be based in Paris.

kitonthenet,

Certainly we already had this conversation like ten years ago right? Call of duty has never been anything but that, you really can’t make a war game that is both fun and anything but pro war

TwilightVulpine,

I don't think this is a conversation we can have once ten years ago and forget about it, as long as the franchise is still going.

kitonthenet,

I think you’ve mistaken being pro war with being unpopular or being abolished or something

TwilightVulpine,

I don't even know where you got that from. What I'm saying is that there is plenty of reason to keep talking about it.

Gamey,

I never played much CoD so I might be wrong here but there is a difference betwesn debicting war and rewriting history in favor of the US and I think that’s what the author wants to point out, the US loves to be debicted as the good guys even if it’s anything but true and their collaborations with Hollywood show that really fucking well.

Perfide,

Yeah well, the propaganda has gotten even more blatant and it’s still the worlds best selling game every year. So I think it’s totally reasonable to continue having this conversation.

IWantToFuckSpez,

It’s always been like that https://www.eurogamer.net/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-accused-of-rewriting-history-to-blame-russia-for-controversial-us-attacks

Also there is literally a former CIA exec in the exec suite of Activision.

https://www.activisionblizzard.com/leadership/brian-bulatao

And the Homeland Security Advisor to Dubya was also an exec at Activision

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Townsend

How many other game companies have executives with close ties to the military?

MinusPi,
@MinusPi@yiffit.net avatar

Did anyone not realize this?

TwilightVulpine,

A lot of teenagers with poor history education probably never did.

robdor,

It’s a game.

Absolute_Axoltl,

It being a game doesn’t change anything. A film can be pro-war propaganda and it continues to be a film.

TwilightVulpine,

This sort of response shows that even some people who care a lot about games, think little of them. Like they are all inconsequential playthings.

Can you imagine anyone saying "it's a book" to try to say that they don't matter?

eltimablo,

Can you imagine anyone saying "it's a book" to try to say that they don't matter?

Atheists do it all the time when talking about the Bible

Bitrot,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

In comparison to “the inspired, living word of God”, only the edgiest would argue it hasn’t been an important piece of literature.

eltimablo,

In my time, I've encountered edge sharp enough to cut the very universe itself.

TwilightVulpine,

Sure, but that is a whole different argument. When atheists say that that the Bible is "just a book" it's not a dismissal of the value of literature, it's saying that they don't need to be bound to what it says, that to them it's no more than any other book.

robdor,

Yes

cyborganism,

Yeah. I never played any other CoD games than the WWII ones. CoD 1, 2, the Pacific one (world at war?) and the latest WWII.

When I saw them release the modern warfare one after the invasion of Iraq, I thought it was so distasteful I never bothered to pay any other CoD game because I knew it would be uncomfortable.

intensely_human,

I mean duh. It’s art that makes war fun.

Commiunism,

I think they were/are getting funding from some US military defense sector, the same one that was funding a lot of pro-american propaganda films. So even without taking the actual campaign/story of COD games into consideration, it’s definitely in their interest to make a propaganda game.

minishoemaze,
@minishoemaze@beehaw.org avatar

The most stark example against this is the original MW2 - in addition to the anti-war quotes everyone loves to talk about every time you die, the main antagonist is literally a US Army General (admittedly he is distanced from the actual Army by the end, using a PMC instead).

The black ops games have some twist that often provoke the the thought of whether the ends justify the means. ::: In Cold War, the main character, Bell, is actually a captured Russian soldier that they have brainwashed to fight for the US as part of an experimental program. When this is revealed, you have the option to betray your “team” and lead them into a Russian trap :::

That being said, I haven’t played all of the cod campaigns, especially some of the more “historical” entries. It’s more fun to play this type of game when it makes you feel like what you’re doing is justified. It’s important to remember it’s all fiction, but hey, it’s not going to be for everyone. If you feel like the game you’re playing goes against your morals, no shame in switching it off for something else.

As Reggie from Nintendo once said, “If it isn’t fun, why bother.”

TwilightVulpine,

As Reggie from Nintendo once said, “If it isn’t fun, why bother.”

I haven't played enough to make a judgment about COD in particular, but like you said, this is from Nintendo, a company whose main franchise is a game for kids about a funny little man stomping evil turtles in a fantasy world. It doesn't even have the trappings of something that you can take seriously and use to inform your real life. Nobody would mistake it for anything close to a realistic historical account, unlike COD.

Is Schindler's List fun?

There is more to media and art than whether its fun. Art can be engaging and intriguing without being "fun". I wouldn't call Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice "fun" per se, but it's definitely a good game.

EvaUnit02,
@EvaUnit02@kbin.social avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    TwilightVulpine,

    We definitely disagree on the latter. It was harrowing, but the way it handled its themes was fascinating and the gaming culture would be lesser without it.

    We don't expect all books and movies to be "fun", why should games all be? We can see other forms of engagement and value in other media.

    EvaUnit02,
    @EvaUnit02@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TwilightVulpine,

    If you define fun by "having a blast" then we are talking about the same thing. Why wouldn't a game be valid if it's about delivering a message above moment to moment action? Strip the message away and obviously it's lesser for it. Because it's not a message plus an entirely separate mechanical system, it's about what everything means in context. Rather than focusing on making flashy combos, it's more interesting to ponder over what is it supposed to represent and what is actually happening.

    It's a little funny though that I did consider Spec Ops as another example, and that I have seen people judging it the same way that you are doing to Hellblade, that it was a mediocre military FPS, but many rebutted that even its lackluster gameplay is supposed to contribute the commentary. In the same way you praise of Spec Ops, I don't think Hellblade is nearly as bad in that aspect as you say, As an action game it is serviceable, but the action is not the point.

    If you argue for serious games but only in the context of the gamification of business and education, you are still glossing over a whole multitude of media that is more about exploring ideas than moment-to-moment thrills, something other media have in plenty, and something which games have incredible potential for. You are thinking of typical games solely in terms of pop culture. There is a lot more to a medium than pop culture and strictly functional tools, and you are making that to be a massive abyss where nothing has worth.

    EvaUnit02, (edited )
    @EvaUnit02@kbin.social avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TwilightVulpine,

    I find it difficult to discuss productively when you come up with such overblown analogies like that. I could even argue that artistically there could be merit to the equivalent a book full of thumbtacks, and Fear & Hunger comes to mind as a game to be described like that, One where a myriad ways to suffer is central to the experience and themes. But to say that Hellblade is like that is so uncalled for it makes that whole angle of discussion pointless.

    You may have written about what a game is and if it has to be fun, but you are not staying true to what you preach. You can't even seem to acknowledge merits in games that you are not personally entertained by.

    To judge Hellblade for being linear is several decades too late to start that argument, and there is no reason to single it out. Loosely half of all games today are games where you perform as expected in a predefined context where your choices don't matter, but most people still think of them as games. What was the benefit of that semantic argument then?

    And even if you were to say that Hellblade, like Spec Ops The Line, is more like a "theme park ride" than a "game", to compare it to "a book full of thumbtacks" says absolutely nothing about how it's constructed and what may be issues in that. It just says that you really, really don't like it. If that's what you have to say, then there is no point in even talking about it. I can acknowledge that you don't like it and that's it.

    Perfide,

    Because it’s not a message plus an entirely separate mechanical system

    Except they kinda are separate. It doesn’t matter how good your story is, if it’s a total slog of mediocre boring gameplay to get that story I’m just not gonna bother. If the actual game part of your game is bad, it’s a bad game; if only the story is good, you may as well make it a movie,book or something else like that.

    Telltale games were also really bad games for basically the same reasons, should’ve just been direct-to-video/streaming movies. Fight me.

    TwilightVulpine,

    You can come at me however much you want. It doesn't change that Hellblade is a acclaimed, beloved game, and so were many of the Telltale games until they oversaturated the market, really. You can not like them but insisting that they are bad doesn't make them universally bad.

    What makes Hellblade good is putting the player in the shoes of the protagonist, and for that it's better as a game. A movie wouldn't cut it for this. Frankly to me it doesn't matter as much if the combat is not as fleshed out as God of War. The point is not doing sick combos at the enemies that we don't even know for sure if they are real. But the struggle matters.

    There is no point in making a fuss about how extensive the gameplay aspects of a game should be, unless you are writing game design theory that uses these concepts in a helpful practical manner. I wouldn't really call "the game is bad if the game part is bad, make it a movie" a very helpful one. Even as a critique it's pretty lacking.

    Comes to mind that something like Phoenix Wright has very minimal game elements in a story-centric format. Would you call that bad?

    Binthinkin,

    COD and now that Fallujah one are such garbage and disrespect those who were there. The cocaine jacked asshats of the COD franchise need better stories so they just lie.

    Bitrot,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    You didn’t play long enough, eventually there are miscellaneous Cuban enemies too.

    If you aren’t going to finish the game, I’d recommend at least watching the ending. The “good” ending modifies the typical narrative and the “bad” ending ends up being much more fun.

    Rentlar,

    Duty Calls is the best game in the series

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