Thief_of_Crows

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Thief_of_Crows,

Moreso the current one we’re doing in palestine.

Thief_of_Crows,

Most Germans didn’t support the Nazis either, but they were still culpable. Israel could never do this genocide without our help, and so we are culpable for it.

Thief_of_Crows, (edited )

There is certainly a genocide occuring in Palestine. The US is funding the Israeli military. Ergo, the US is culpable for genocide, just like all Germans were. Average citizens are less culpable than government officials are, but we are all culpable for it to a degree.

It’s a similar concept to manslaughter. We were negligent in our enforcement of our government, and so even though you and I might oppose the governments actions and didn’t directly cause them, we all had a duty to prevent a genocidal government taking power.

Thief_of_Crows,

Everything you’ve said is the exact explanation for why there is no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism, and the inherent flaw behind it as a whole. But I do not accept that it’s the same issue in gaza. It is not capitalism as a system causing the genocide, it is our elected president who is actively lying about both sides of the war in order to perpetuate it. It is our UN representatives actively blocking a ceasefire. The fact we haven’t impeached Biden yet is very much on all Americans. Capitalism did not put Biden in the WH, we did. And so we are responsible for what he does and doesn’t do while there.

As far as the sins of capitalism, I very much agree with your original sin argument. It’s just a different issue when the problems are caused by our democratically elected government.

Thief_of_Crows,

The point of animal farm is “Communists are so shit, they’re almost as bad as capitalists”. Suggesting that Orwell wouldn’t prefer communism to capitalism is simply false.

Thief_of_Crows,

Yeah but thos guys dad also molested and raped women.

Thief_of_Crows,

Yeah, only one of the candidates aided in a genocide. Voting for that guy is literally voting for fascism. Biden, to be clear.

Thief_of_Crows,

That’s because voting blue no matter who IS endorsing the shift to the right. Dems will never have incentive to move left to court voters who already vote for them. We have to not vote for them to get that.

The solution to America’s capitalism problem isn’t going to come electorally. Bernie ran twice and they rigged the primaries against him. Eugene Debs ran openly as a socialist, and they threw him in prison for speaking out against involvement in WW1. He got 3 million votes while in prison too.The best thing you can do right now thats realistic is unionize your work place. We have to beat capitalists at their core of power, not the places they use that power.

Thief_of_Crows,

The solution to that is fixing the problems we have. It’s not like we can all just close our eyes and hope they go away.

Thief_of_Crows,

Oh, is lemmygrad also leftist and disliked by libs? I’ll have to check them out.

Thief_of_Crows,

The reality is, change comes through violence. There’s a reason the iconic image of the French revolution is a guillotine. So the main reason to stay engaged is so that when things start to get really bad, we are all on the same page about the problems. Also, simply being against the bad things your country does matter in a democracy. The legitimacy of the government hinges on them actually having the support of the public.

Thief_of_Crows,

But he wasn’t? Releasing news of you being a hypocrite isn’t bullying. It’s the other Republicans fault he wasn’t comfortable coming out.

Thief_of_Crows,

One election? Ourr current president is denying genocide. How exactly does one get more fascist than that?

Thief_of_Crows,

Oh, you mean like sending billions in military aid to a genocidal ally? Again, what is so un-fascist about Bidens actions re: Israel?

Thief_of_Crows,

Yeah, name 50 times we’ve ever done that specific crime!

Thief_of_Crows,

You got any proof of that beyond “The genocidal state attacking them said so”? And further, since Israel is attacking all refugees, wouldn’t they thus all be enemy combatants? In which case it’d be like the Nazis saying they’re justified having concentration camps because they are at war with the Jews.

Thief_of_Crows,

Bro you have no clue what you’re talking about. Hamas is the victims of attempted genocide. They do not target civilians, they launch rockets they aren’t able to aim (because of the attempted genocide preventing them having anything Israel doesn’t approve) at Israel.

Israel is the bad guy in this conflict, not Hamas.

Thief_of_Crows,

Bro quit listening to Israeli propaganda. They were attacking the people oppressing them, who want to genocide them.

Thief_of_Crows,

True, there is no grey area, because Israel is a genocidal state attempting to steal palestine’s land. Quit reading nothing except US/Israeli propaganda and educate yourself.

Thief_of_Crows,

Why must you add qualifiers? Hamas committing war crimes in attempt to end the genocide being perpetrated on them is not remotely the same thing as Israel committing them in service of said genocide.

Hamas’ excuse for hitting civilians with their rockets is that Israel has made it utterly impossible for them to produce high quality rockets, capable of being aimed. Israels tech superiority means the only way to attack them is via sheer quantity of rockets fired into Israel.

Thief_of_Crows,

No, it wasn’t. Go do some actual research on what happened that day militarily before you continue making shit up at me.

Thief_of_Crows,

Pretty sure their definition of winning is not getting genocide by said Jews

Thief_of_Crows,

Anyone who says trump was worse should not be taken seriously about politics, all they care about is feeling good about their country and being able to ignore politics. Bush killed half a million Iraqis in service of oil company quarterly earnings, it’s not even close.

Thief_of_Crows,

I usually use half a million, as that’s the undisputed number. I agree though that it’s most likely a full million. Why would you believe anything trump says? And Trump’s response to COVID is not nearly as bad as what bush did in Iraq.

Thief_of_Crows,

Just fine him $1 billion every time he does shit like this. If he doesn’t pay, sue his ass in a $5 billion lawsuit. We have ways of making him talk.

Thief_of_Crows,

Yeah, if she wanted anybody to respect her, she would only do jobs that are in the public service, like sex work.

Thief_of_Crows,

That’s why it’s better

Thief_of_Crows,

Making Trump speaker would be a major national security risk to Biden and Harris. Gives way too many lunatics big ideas is there’s a direct benefit to their movement. Not to mention it WAYYY to closely mirrors the arc of Hitlers rise. Failed coup attempt, followed by taking on a secondary post a few years later.

Thief_of_Crows,

China isn’t hostile, afaik only the US has been hostile. And claiming that tiktok did that is equivalent to saying random American company is responsible for bombing Iraq

Thief_of_Crows,

Right, that would make a lot of sense to do about the country that’s openly hostile to you. Oh, China has territory disputes with neighbors? The US will literally fucking bomb you to nothing for your oil, and/or stage a false flag coup to overthrow your government if they won’t sell them oil. We have also used corporate espionage to rewrite the laws of several South American countries into ineffectiveness, for the benefit of a fruit company. The two are not remotely comparable on foreign policy.

Thief_of_Crows,

Literally none of that is true. If it is, provide a source. Who has China gone to full scale war with for their oil? Genocide was made up by a far right grifter named Adrian zenz. You’ve fallen hardcore American propaganda bro.

Thief_of_Crows,

No, it doesn’t. Taiwan seceded from them, they aren’t trying to colonize it. America bombing Iraq and destabilizing SA governments is killing for oil. Buying oil from Russia is not that.

Thief_of_Crows,

How is buying oil from Russia remotely similar to that? America actually does do that, btw, by supplying the Saudis with the weapons they need to genocide Yemen.

Thief_of_Crows,

Knowing facts is cope?

Thief_of_Crows,

What’s the celebrities name?

Thief_of_Crows,

Its not really what he was saying, but he could have had a point. The shows writers really did kind of have it out for him (with good reason as stated everywhere else), and as a result they didn’t give him very much to work with. Even his use of the N word was directed at the writers, saying something like “pretty soon they’ll just have me call Donald N----r”. Its really a vicious cycle, because it’s hard to write good jokes for a person you dislike as much as the writers did chevy. And then Chevy gets even shittier to you because you constantly give him the worst lines.

Thief_of_Crows,

So you keep a bud light lime on you at all times, just in case? Wont that simply result in your GF ignoring the sign, since you always have one on you?

Thief_of_Crows,

Even if you’re right, that doesn’t mean we should actually kill them. People are people, they should be treated as such. We can throw them in jail far easier, and to the rest of us, it’s equivalent to them being dead.

Thief_of_Crows,

Or maybe your grandfather just had a perspective that was skewed by either wealth or propaganda. From context in going to guess that he attributes a lot of the negatives caused by capitlaists during the cold war to simply being fundamental facts of socialism/communism

Thief_of_Crows,

Being the victim of American propaganda does not make you an employee CIA agent. But the fact is that America is fundamentally responsible for most of the problems in Venezuela, both via CIA meddling, and letting our capitalists decimate their economy for their own personal gain. Its the same story across almost all of South America. Sometimes it’s staging coups on their elected leaders, sometimes it’s leveraging the power of a fruit company in order to rewrite their laws to be favorable towards said fruit company.

Thief_of_Crows,

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt actually. You’re the one saying he isn’t merely the victim of propaganda. Its entirely possible he was just an idiot. Or a massive piece of shit. Most of the people who were “driven out” of communist countries were just business owners who were trying to hoard all the food they grew, during a famine. So yes, now that you bring it up, it is also possible your grandfather was just a massive POS, rather than a victim.

Thief_of_Crows,

Yeah, that kind of thing can happen when you actually research history rather than ask one person. There’s a reason anecdotal evidence isn’t given much credence.

Thief_of_Crows,

Why are those your only options? You already ruled out researching what the actual truth is? Don’t take my word for it, prove me wrong. If I can be proven wrong, I want to know. My evidence is empirical, but 2nd hand. Better than anecdotal, but not proof in itself. Your grandfather’s journal is primary, but anecdotal. Would you rather be right, or be correct? I’d rather be correct.

Thief_of_Crows,

Oh, my research into the matter was propaganda? Is all of the rest of the actual data propaganda too? You have anecdotal evidence, which I have no doubt your grandfather believed was true, but which does not necessarily mean it is correct. The fact is that the vast majority of those who fled the USSR citing persecution had very much done something worthy of persecution. Most commonly, withholding the means of production from their workers.

If I am wrong though, show me the proof. Anecdotal evidence is useful for verifying knowledge, and for creating hypotheses. For proof though, actual data is required.

Thief_of_Crows,

Well the US is heavily responsible for their needing to flee Venezuela, so it seems more than fair.

Thief_of_Crows,

Look, capitalism clearly does not work. Everything Marx and Lenin ever wrote about capitalism has come true. It is destroying our world more and more every day. Whatever you might say about communism, we do not know for a fact that it will ruin the lives of everybody, involved or not. No matter how bad you might claim communism is, it isn’t the thing that’s currently destroying our societies. So it is by definition better than capitalism.

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