A friend of mine got his son to use Linux by just not providing an alternative, he installed Debian edu (don’t know if that’s the name, but basically a Debian spin for kids with parental restrictions and stuff) on an old laptop for him and that’s what he used. Once he got his own PC it was over though since he wanted to play Fortnite so bad that he bought windows for that. He still dual boots Fedora, but I don’t think he has used it since the windows partition is there.
I think the thing is you can’t really get kids (or people in general for that matter) into Linux the way you are probably into it and interested in it. At least not if they’re not already interested in it on their own. They will learn how to use it sure, but not the way we’re used to using Linux, understanding the intricacies of the system, keeping the system safe,… They’ll probably find a way to do what they already do on windows and ignore that the OS is different.
IMO, his aproach was too strict, that’s why it failed and just caused repulsion towards Linux. There are other ways you can “make” children like things.
I don’t think this was too strict, maybe I made it sound that way, but it was not like he forbid him using windows, it was just that he’s using Linux, his son got his old laptop that was running Linux and they didn’t have a windows license, so his son was running Linux as well. He’s also doing fine on Linux and doesn’t dislike it or anything, the only “problem” was that he wanted to play Fortnite which does not work on Linux. He’s also getting along fine with Linux, especially on fedora where he doesn’t need the Terminal.
What I wanted to say with that comment is that you can’t make your kids to learn and use Linux like most of us probably do. For most people an operating system is still just some black magic on their computer that makes the browser or their games run, they don’t care how it works or if it is secure or using the latest software. Most people just don’t know and don’t care what an OS even is and the same thing goes for kids imo
Oh, that’s different then… I thought his dad was like “run Debian, or you’re grounded”, lol 😂.
I agree on the last part, that is most definitely true. You can try, but you can’t force it 🤷. After all, his/hers gifts may lay in another field, not tech 😉.
It’s obviously not representative of the overall Linux experience but I recently realised that messing around on the Linux bits in ChromeOS would be a pretty good way to learn Terminal things, at least for Debian. It’s sandboxed so it doesn’t matter if you screw up and if you do it’s like two or three clicks to start afresh, way simpler than setting up and resetting a standard VM for the inexperienced. It, of course, means using a ChromeOS device but maybe that can be a secondary lesson on having megacorps profit from your data.
My kids only know Linux and have never seen Windows in their life before. They know their way around KDE just fine and get the stuff done they need. For gaming, it is steam with proton but mostly they game on consoles.
Kids that age certainly know how to use a lot of apps, but only in the walled gardens these apps allow them. It’s going to be generations of kids only exposed to very curated experiences that companies what them to know.
Although it’s true: they probably do know a lot more about stuff that matters to their generation than you do, just like you knew more than your parents about stuff that mattered to you as a kid.
And yes, I agree, they do get exposed to the Big Tech party line a lot. But don’t underestimate the kids: they’re smart, they can tell BS when they see it more than you think, and they’re not that easy to indoctrinate.
I know that because when I was a kid, we had our own tech overlords (in my generation, the phone company) and we walked all over them despite the propaganda and apparent overwhelming power. Why would today’s kids be any different?
I think “matters more to their generation” is doing some heavy lifting. They surely know how to navigate social media and chat servers and all that. And in a way that’s more important.
I don’t think that maps to being able to use Linux with any proficiency.
Kids are smart in some ways and stupid in a lot of ways that adults are. They’re largely being put in a battle they can’t win against YouTube and TikTok that systematically target their psychology.
Well, I don’t know. I kept telling how games like roblox are brainwashing and conditioning him into wanting to buy in-game junks. And, he still asks robuxs for this birthday.
Wanting robux and things like that are probably unavoidable due to peer pressure and exposure to videos and game-mechanics telling them they want this. It’s probably been like this forever, you always needed the same merchandise your friends had.
I’m curious: Do you know what he (at his age) thinks about your perspective on things?
Does he have other hobbies and still wants some immaterial in-game items / currency? Does a kid at that age grasp the value / alternatives? I suppose this all depends on how much time someone spends in a virtual world. Sure you need/want some goods there if this is a major part of your life.
Is that so different than in previous generations? Even back in the C64 era most kids just played games from disks they bought.
If you got into computers any time from the mid-90s, you would have been using Windows and that’s it.
Smartphones always came with their predetermined OS without a command line or programming tools on them. (There where apps for that on many systems, but in general, that wasn’t a thing most users used.)
From the 80s on, programming wasn’t required to use a PC and most users never learned it.
In general, people would just use pre-made software, because they use a PC/smartphone as a tool to do what they want to.
It’s kinda like with any other tools. People buy a hammer because they need to get a nail into a wall. Only very few people are interested in a hammer itself and get into the art of making their own tools.
I think it is different. In the 90s everything was limited. You needed to make do with what was limited things were available to you and get innovative and creative. Nowadays everything is unlimited. You have plenty of games on your harddisk and get new ones on a whim. You don’t need to figure out how to tackle your own problems because everything just works. We have the internet and YouTube entertainment never ends. (Back then it was just the TV.) And things weren’t made to be addictive.
I wasn’t allowed to get a GameBoy so I just had a computer. We got really creative with that because it was old and slow. When I was a bit older I figured out how to use a hex editor to manipulate the games. First I searched for where the highscore was saved and changed it to brag. Then we figured out how to change the thrust of the aircraft in the flight simulator. At some point I wanted to make my own game. I started with level-editors for the games we had access to and at some point I wanted to learn programming. And since I didn’t get a new computer when my friends got a 500MHz machine that could do CounterStrike(?) and more modern racing games, I asked my dad for his old books about programming.
So there is a natural progression for old computers to hacking and using your computer as a tool. We also incorporated it into other games, wrote letters and printed shipping labels. But I can’t deny that lots of my friends weren’t interested in that aspect and mainly used it for games and never went deeper than that. But… At least they had to figure out how to assemble their PC and get networking working because it really was a hassle. I think it’s become way easier to just ‘consume’ nowadays. That was also possible in the 90s if you had a Nintendo or PlayStation and unrestricted access to a television. But I think less so with a computer.
Kids still like to be creative. I still regularly see them play Minecraft or design levels with Mario Maker.
Awesome question. And good advice here. To add something: Don’t just give them games. Hook up an old printer, install LibreOffice plus the openclipart images. Kids can make everything into a game. We used to play with my dad’s old pc and imagined being private investigators and had our own little office. We printed out lots of silly stuff and took notes on the computer. There are a few ‘learn typing on a keyboard’ games, but back then I didn’t have fun with them.
Maybe they like drawing, install TuxPaint, Krita. Or video editing or recording stuff, give them a webcam/phone and Kdenlive. Have them do a spoof on a movie or do their own Lego stop-motion film. Or they like to make music, install Audacity’s sucessor, LMMS, a drum sequencer …
And of course the whole kids-education metapackage if your distribution has one. So they can program little turtles and start coding with Python. You can do this at age 8, depending on the kids personality.
It works best if it’s tied somehow into their lives. For example (occasionally) printing homework assignments, a stop-motion suite if they play a lot with Lego anyways…
Other than that, my boy scout education tells me to “look at the boy”. Have them explore and see that they like. Assist and teach them how to operate the software they want to use. Help them once they get stuck or can’t figure something out on their own. You will have to guide them and show how they can achieve the results they want, so they stay motivated.
Give them background knowledge and tell them the 'why’s. Why something is the way it is. I’d say that is the point where we get to Linux. At age 10 or so, you don’t necessarily care about an operating system. But you’re curious and happy to learn why there are different ones and why they behave differently and the story behind that. And the thing that hooks you is the possibilities and usefulness for your life. So that’s why I recommend installing lots of useful (to kids) software.
And maybe give them a chat / instant-messenger program. So they can contact you and ask questions.
As it is with teaching generally, it heavily depends on how you do it. Kids are very curious by default. In my experience: “Look at the boy” has served me well. Kids come in a wide variety. Don’t teach them top-down but find a mix of letting them explore and roam, but also make sure to teach them the basics first. And guide them how to apply things to their life and find use-cases and the fun in it. If you pay attention to them, you can adjust your own behaviour.
This is also how I got hooked to computers as a kid as well. The problem nowadays though is the internet and easy access to addictive internet services and games. Back then, you’re stuck with what’s on your PC and somehow have to make the most out of it.
Mmh. Sure, I don’t have kids so I probably lack some experience in how it is today.
I’m not sure if trying to compete with the attention-grabbing games is what whe should aim for. Sure kids love Roblox and Minecraft, and watching lets-play videos for days on end…
But there is no educational aspect in just giving them all the games. And they won’t become invested in the underlying concepts and the world of free software and computers if all you do is replicate a gaming pc and provide them with a flawless Steam/Proton experience. The computer as a tool and the operating system is irrelevant for just gaming. And it isn’t (in my eyes) what makes computers and Linux appealing.
I wouldn’t even attempt to compete with that. Sure, give them SuperTuxKart, PPracer and maybe a Minetest world (with mods and animals and NPCs so the world isn’t just the empty and boring default one).
I don’t really know how to pry a modern child out of games and videos. Maybe restrict their time with that. Show them alternatives and how to use the computer as a tool. Start a project together with them. Maybe design a calender as a gift for someone, or get them started with the stop-motion movie, or music studio. You could also (dis)assemble the PC together with them and install Linux so they learn about the components. Unfortunately this all really requires time, attention and dedication from the adult and I see no way around that. And the child also needs to become interested in that aspect. But you need to start somewhere. I would really try to advertise this as something more than an alternative gaming platform and make some sort of distinction between the two.
[I know how it was back them with old computers and without the internet. We had a super old, decommissioned PC from my dad. The choice of games was somewhat limited and we had to become innovative. I learned programming relatively early, because Commander Keen or the old flight simulator wasn’t as enticing as the modern games are and you got bored after a few days. With some games we got stuck or some were pirated and in English, which i didn’t speak back then. So I definitely did a good amount of gaming, even back then. But we weren’t allowed to do it indefinitely and we also sat in front of the PC with friends and took turns. I suppose this is different now that everyone has their own Nintendo Switch. The world has changed since and trying to go back isn’t the right thing to do. But I believe the underlying concepts, trying to do more than just gaming and passive entertainment, restricting their access to it and provide them with alternatives, if you got the time to spare, is a good thing.]
(Apart from that, I’ve been with the boy scouts for quite some time. We always did some projects in the rainy autumn and winter. Even the roblox-kids from today like to do other things like hands-on projects, handicraft work to carpentry. But you have to find a way to reach them. Once they managed to get some nice results, it becomes easier and they become invested themselves.)
My sons are in that age bracket and when they requested a laptops for themselves (older sister got one for school stuff) I “borrowed” decommissioned thinkpads from work, threw empty ssd’s on them and gave computers to boys with linux mint installer on usb-stick. Younger one got it running in couple of hours without any help and is actively learning on how to use the thing, yesterday he told me how he had learned to open software using keyboard shortcuts and in general is interested about the tinkering aspect of things. Older one has a bit more pragmatic approach, he got the installation done as well but he’s not interested about the computer itself as it’s just a tool to listen to a music, look up for tutorials for his other interests and things like that.
Both cases are of course equally valid and I’m just happy that they are willing to learn things beyond just pushing the buttons. But I’m also (secretly) happy that my youngest shares my interests and he’s been doing simple games with scratch and in general shows interest on how the computers, networking and other stuff actually works.
I think I read his blog back then. Telling about the progress his (then) very young son made. How he didn’t install a graphical user interface at first but the kid loved ‘sl’ (the steam locomotive if you mistype ‘ls’), and cowsay and so on. And they had a command-line chat to communicate (or just smash buttons).
My father was lucky, I wanted a minecraft server so bad that I accepted to learn how to handle an Ubuntu Server, with ~10 years.
Then I kinda had my edgy hacking phase with 12, and installed Kali as dual boot.
As my Windows install got older, dirtier and buggier, I decided to just f it and installed Pop over everything.
So, get them to be interested in having/doing something requiring Linux, then show them the wonders of the Linux desktop, preferably not Kali, but something more user friendly, and finally wait till they want to reinstall for whatever reason, like a new PC (with AMD or Intel GPU).
Yep, this is good as well. Use whatever suits the needs best, but I’d try and get him leaning towards the FOSS side - use other OSes only if you have to.
Probably to play games, access the internet and maybe do their homework. Most probably, they don’t use Windows because they specifically enjoy working with Windows, but because it easily lets them do whatever they actually want to do on a PC.
Spending 5h on fixing some weird incompatibility between the Nvidia GPU, your DE and Proton might be fun for some, but it’s most probably not what your kid wants to do when they could be gaming or doing whatever they actually want to do. Problems like that can scare them off quickly.
So first setup the PC so that everything they usually do on Windows works without issues.
The next question is, why would your kid want to run Linux instead of Windows?
The usual advantages (FOSS, free to use, better for developers) don’t really matter to most kids. The only things I can think of right now are:
Runs on PCs that aren’t Win11 compatible
Some games like Minecraft run faster (but some games also run slower)
With the setup completed and advantages thought of, you can let the kid use Linux quite similarly to Windows. When the kid wants new software or has an issue, work together with them to get everything running. First do everything and let them watch, later let them do more and more of the process.
You can only teach someone Linux if they have a desire to learn it. If they don’t want to learn it, then they might learn that it’s “bad” or “weird” compared to mainstream OSes, which would be working backwards.
I taught adult education in college and always introduced people to computing with “DOS for Dummies” even though Windows was the OS they interacted with. By teaching them in a command line only environment first I could then easily teach them the desktop environment because they understood what was going on behind the scenes. I think the same could be done with Linux.
Yeah, but the kid has to be older, 12 is too young for that IMO.
Still, a Linux install with a DE will do nicely. He wants to do this and this, but there is no GUI for it, tell him to open up the terminal and type in the following commands, see what happens after you hit Enter… it always brings a smile, even with adults ☺️, they feel like they’re hackers or something 😂.
Then they usually wanna know what each of the commands and options do, and this is where I know I have a great student ☺️.
Just introducing them to it is probably enough. Show them different desktop environments and applications to get them used to the idea of diverse interfaces and workflows. Just knowing that alternatives exist could help them break out of the Windows monoculture later. Enable all of the cool window effects.
Add comment