Please don't repeat the same mistake as Linux

The main reason for the Linux operating system not seeing widespread adoption is because of its multitude of distros. Ubuntu, Debian, Arch, Mint… there are just so many choices, just like how when someone asks how to join the Fediverse people will response with “which instance?”

Who the fuck cares about instances and whatnot when an average grandma just wants to make a post on knitting in a supportive community? It really turns people off and without niche communities, there is no way Lemmy will grow any further than its current state.

Without niche communities, what are we going to talk about? Memes? Just programming-related stuff? (I can just surf stackoverflow for that) It can be fun for a while but without diversity, the site will just devolve into boredom and circlejerks. I love this place to death and really want to see it grow, but man, seeing how confusing it can be for an average user makes me anxious for changes.

edit: paragraphs & grammar

edit 2: I’m not saying the Fediverse should be something else. Just like someone here said it better than me, Fediverse can be as complicated under the hood as it wants, but the end user does not need to know that. It must be presented in a way as simple as possible, with plenty of signs and helpful directions.

xyzinferno,
@xyzinferno@lemmy.world avatar

Multiple distros and instances are a double edged sword. It isn’t as basic as having one site like Reddit or one OS like Windows, but has the advantage of not being at the mercy of one company like Reddit Inc or Microsoft, should they push some change people don’t like. These distros/instances allow for individuals to tailor their experience however they want without having to beg the developers or admins to listen to them.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want to avoid the shitshow happening on Reddit now, you may have to make things too complicated for the “average grandma” to understand. That’s just how shit works.

Who the fuck cares about instances and whatnot when an average grandma just wants to make a post on knitting in a supportive community?

To put it simply, who the fuck cares about the average grandma when we want a forum that won’t turn into Reddit in the next decade?

At some point, I’m sick and tired of this notion that everything on the internet has to be simplified for the lowest common denominator. Lemmy isn’t hard to get a handle on. Either people learn how to use it, or they miss out. We can streamline the process as much as possible, but not to the extent of compromising on what makes federation valuable.

LarrySwinger,

I disagree. When you create an instance, you want it to be advertised by its name so that people can find you immediately and register. If people are advertising Kbin, Lemmy, or ActivityPub in general, they will find the landing page of the software in question, perhaps reach a list of instances, and in that process there's a good chance they'll bounce because they have no clue what instances to pick. Furthermore, when the network in general is promoted, it does not promote any particular instance with its own culture, which is the lifeblood of a forum. If people get to your landing page, they will immediately see the top posts and people commenting. This is more likely to pique their interest and make them want to be part of the community. After registering, they can still discover that your instance federates and is part of a much larger community.

HeartyBeast,
@HeartyBeast@kbin.social avatar

You know what I really hate about the worldwide web? All these different websites. It is so confusing, how is anyone going to remember them?

It won’t catch on until it’s one big website that does everything

SeeJayEmm,
@SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org avatar

Tell me that isn’t the direction things have been going the last decade.

DmMacniel,
@DmMacniel@feddit.de avatar

And why should the average user know about instances? Or why shouldn’t they?

You can make a niche Community on any instance and everyone in the Fediverse can access that.

Also why is the plethora of distros an issue for the average Joe when he doesn’t even care about Linux in the first place as his devices come preinstalled with Windows and bloatware?

The Average Joe is blissfully unaware. Do you really want to redpill him?

Bishma,
@Bishma@kbin.social avatar

As a linux user if 25+ years, you're off on a bad foot with me from the beginning.

The base idea of ActivityPub is that we can't let things get too big, because that draws attempts to takeover the userbase. There are already organized efforts beginning on Mastodon to mass defederate from any server (maston.social) that get's to 51% of the total userbase because it would be an existential threat to all of ActivityPub if that happened. You're basically asking starfleet to please ignore the prime directive.

JoeClu,
@JoeClu@lemmy.world avatar

I never thought about that. That’s a great idea.

Clipper152,

Windows is where it is because of Microsoft’s aggression. There’s no essence inside Windows that makes it widespread ex nihilo.

Linux isn’t as widespread as it could be because many people don’t realise it’s a viable alternative to Windows or Mac. It has nothing to do with how many distros there are. Also, newbies are usually recommended Ubuntu or Linux Mint, so it’s not even “so many choices” to begin with.

Also, you do realise you can interact with instances other than yours, right? I use lemm.ee btw.

mathlad,

It maybe better to not refer new users as newbies. People know the unix system under the very successful product that is MacOS. Why is MacOS successful? Because it is easy to use and is a complete products with few bugs. I used to use Ubuntu, and before that kde btw.

Dnn,

People know the unix system under the very successful product that is MacOS.

What? Only techies know that, 99% users don’t and wouldn’t care.

I used to use Ubuntu, and before that kde btw.

I’m starting to doubt you actually did since KDE isn’t a distro.

mathlad,

Are we being overly anal about semantics here? I never said kde is a distro. I just said I used Ubuntu, as in the pure Ubuntu from Canonical, and before that Kubuntu, or Ubuntu with the Plasma Desktop environment KDE. There, it has been a long time since I last used them so I did not remember the name Kubuntu.

Also MacOS is popular because its users don’t have to care that it is a Unix system. You basically just repeated my point. I have never been an Apple fan (my phones were all Android phones), but, well, “it just works” anyone?

Dnn,

Are we being overly anal about semantics here?

Usually not but your whole activity in this thread reads like you’re just hating on Linux for some reason: “too diverse!” “it destroyed my ssd!” (which I doubt). In that context your claim to have been a user just looks like a half-truth to give yourself some credibility.

Anyway, back to the actual topic: I don’t care about mass-adoption. Everything turns to shit when the masses pour over it. In my opinion, Lemmy has reached the critical amount of contributors to get it going, except more actual scientists maybe.

DmMacniel,
@DmMacniel@feddit.de avatar

Newbies are new users. Also the average Joe doesn’t know or even want to know that MacOS is a BSD. MacOS is mostly so successful because of marketing, walled gardening and a pretty good eco system. It has its fair share of bugs. And not just software side but also on the hardware side.

Dnn,

I won’t nitpick how Linux is a kernel not an OS but how is it not widespread? It just runs basically the whole internet…

The reasons the average Joe doesn’t use it for their desktop are convenience (Windows and macOS come pre-installed) and that you can run into technical issues due to bad support by hardware vendors. The latter is a chicken/egg problem and will possibly never be resolved.

Anyway, I disagree it’s due to the number of choices - we don’t need monopolies. Your grocery store is full of different brands of cheese and all of them still stay in business.

mathlad,

Google has a monopoly on search, Youtube has a monopoly on videos and that helps aggregating interesting contents and users towards the product. Social media platforms thrive on user growth. I had Linux as a daily driver also (until it badly messed up my ssd), but customer support and friendliness are definitely limited parts about Linux that scare people away.

cpo,

I’m willing to bet that between

I had Linux as a daily driver also

and

until it badly messed up my ssd

there are a number of systems management decisions you made.

mathlad,

well, no, not really. Just regular web usage and occasional gaming on Steam…

kabe, (edited )
@kabe@lemmy.world avatar

The main reason for the Linux operating system not seeing widespread adoption is because of its multitude of distros.

No it isn’t - it’s because the vast majority of computer/laptop users just stick with the OS that comes installed on their device and probably aren’t even aware than installing a new one is even an option. Your grandma isn’t sitting there thinking “should I install Ubuntu or Fedora on my MacBook?”

Lemmy/Kbin do have something in common with Linux in that the Fediverse concept requires a certain amount of technical knowledge to understand, but it’s far easier to grasp that than it is to install Linux on your home computer.

s6original,
@s6original@lemmy.world avatar

My grandma’s hooked on Suse.

wildbus8979,

Can’t blame her, they have some real bangers!

Whirlybird,

Also because almost all programs are made for windows and mac, not linux.

JoeCoT,
@JoeCoT@kbin.social avatar

Also because the mainstream manufacturers don't want to have to support Linux.

There is less hardware support for Linux than Windows on laptops -- largely because very cheaply made components just have their firmware loaded into them by the OS when it starts, and since they're largely proprietary firmware they conflict with open source licenses.

Linux laptops are just flat out more expensive to make, because you have to use more expensive components that don't do that, confirm compatibility, and have everything setup before you ship it. Also manufacturers don't preinstall bloatware because they feel like it. It's because they get paid. The kickbacks for preinstalling bloatwave well exceeds the cost of the Windows license.

So preinstalling Linux is more expensive component wise, support wise, and bloatware wise. There's little reason for companies to do it, unless they're trying to court software developers. Dell and Lenovo and others court software developers quite well. But there's little incentive for them to try to increase Linux's market share.

Gsus4,

The point of federation is that there are thousands of instances that no monied asshole can just buy and ruin for everyone. If you like that, Reddit,twitter,FB,tiktok are just there…or just join one instance and pretend it is the only one. What is the problem exactly?

elekitty,

Please don’t do the one thing that it’s meant to do?

What you’ll end up with is Threads, do you want Threads?

Die4Ever,
@Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

maybe the better way is to tell the person where to signup, not ask them which instance they want to join, you choose for them

DmMacniel,
@DmMacniel@feddit.de avatar

You mean like join-lemmy.org? Also taking away the option to choose / choosing for them is a very dangerous idea.

Die4Ever,
@Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

I don’t mean a website, I mean a friend. When I tell my friend to join Lemmy I should just link them direct to an instance for them to join instead of giving them 1000 choices

If the website does want to help you choose then maybe it could just use a simple flow chart or ask some questions to narrow down the choices

Aux,

It shouldn’t be a s dangerous idea. It doesn’t matter what email service you’re signed for - you can still communicate with any one in the world. It should be the same for Lemmy. Lemmy UI should be improved to better search and present communities from all over the Fediverse. And join-lemmy should have a random link to a single registration page on a random instance. That will not only make the process better for end users, but will also manage the load between instances, making the whole network more resilient.

DmMacniel,
@DmMacniel@feddit.de avatar

A link to a random instance would be counter productive, since most have a specific focus and some even prefer certain languages. The onboarding process of peertube could be a great way for lemmy I think.

Aux,

Fair enough. In any case, Lemmy today is not user friendly.

mathlad,

Of course I don’t want Threads. I’m just saying the user is being bombarded with information at the first step, which is bad product design.

elekitty,

I don’t disagree that the Fediverse has an image problem; the sign-up stage could be killing legitimate interest from the average user - I found the instances confusing too when starting out on Mastodon and Lemmy.

But obviously I don’t think anybody wants a Threads-type solution.

Maybe, to add on to what u/Die4Ever said about pointing users to an instance, the solution could be to have some sort of sign-up page that isn’t tied to an instance. Using a bunch of user-selected inputs (e.g. location, interests, etc.), it selects the best matching instance and the account is created on that instance. This could relieve the confusion at sign-up.

IDK just spitballing.

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