I suspect bi-generation is a ploy to make this Doctor, and all he does, reversible. I understand if RTD didn’t want to carry all the dense guilt and lone wolf weight of Moffitt’s Doctor into his version, but just dumping it onto poor Tennant and carrying on with a properly “counseled” Doctor, as if the new Doctor wasn’t a continuity but rather a drop in from already having a life, seems…weird.
But for the producers, if it doesn’t work out you can just eliminate the RTD storyline and switch back to Tennant. After all, who really expects a time lord to sit on a porch drinking lemonade for long?
I find it troubling how some fans itch for “reset points” when it comes to certain changes from the show template. Like suggesting rolling back the first Black Doctor immediately after his premiere appearance, or crying for RTD to retcon all of the first female Doctor’s run before it was even over.
Why not just… live with it? Let the show go on forward instead of imagining some weird rewritten, all-white-males version? It was fun having Tennant and Tate back for a second, but I honestly prefer Ncuti Gatwa already, especially over a “rerun” face.
On a sidenote, I don’t think David Tennant is anywhere as eager to return to the show (even on an intermittent basis) as his fans are, and I kind of doubt we’ll see him again until it becomes time for that actual regeneration into 15.
I guess I wasn’t clear. I like the new Doctor too, and I don’t want a reset. It’s did occur to me that the episode lent itself to rolling back. Another possible conclusion is that Disney wants to spin off more Doctor-themed shows and having two doctors makes that work.
IDK. I’m happy we’re getting more Doctor Who, but nervous we’re destroying tropes along the way. Two Tardises, just like that? Hmmm.
I’d be fully onboard with bi-generation, if instead they had explained it happening because of the Toymakers abilities to mess with the laws of physics. I’m surprised they didn’t go that route.
EDIT: I’ve been reading people talk about this idea on other social media platforms. I bet eventually RTD will confirm this. The bi-generation was a myth but the Toymakers powers did indeed bend the laws of the universe and make the myth a reality.
The whole episode up until the ending was amazing, it felt like how doctor who should feel especially thanks to donna. “Im donna and youre a gonner” shit made me and my friend laugh so hard. That was classic donna. And oh my god the toymaker explaining what happened to the docs companions after her? Incredible scene. And toymaker dancing around unit was awesome. But then it crashed hard, they pull bi-generation out of their arse. If its a myth the doctor knew about, something that big has to be built up to, to me it just felt like a cheap way to copy the 50th with having 2 doctors on screen.
Although from the small bits ive seen of him, ncuti seems to me like hes gonna be an incredible doctor. That one scene when he kicked 14 and donna out of the tardis, jokingly, with sass was awesome, felt like a NEW doctor, but still the doctor. Also his interactions with tennant were so heartfelt. No doubts hes gonna be great.
Too bad they fucked up the sonic so bad lmao. I can gurantee this new sonic wont be able to make FUCKING SHIELDS because thats op and they were just lazily thinking of a way to get 14 out of that situation.
Im going to give ncuti a go, but with that ending it felt like i had what doctor who used to be ripped from me. If they keep retconning things like davros for the sole purpose of: “wheelchair users cant be assosciated with evil” then the shows dead to me and thats really upsetting
All this trilogy confirmed for me is that doctor who is dead. We had 3 episodes to set up an ending and it was still rushed and packed with chibnal style bullshit. RTD seems more interested in igniting flame wars than writing good stories.
I think Dr who is out of ideas and should have ended a long time ago.
So who did the toymaker stayed away from and not play a game with? Is that the “boss” the Meep was talking about? Or was that the doctor and I missed something?
Maybe! I do think there’s been a plethora of Timelord big-bads already, so I’m hoping it’s something new, personally.
*(Spoiler-y ahead)Looking back on it, since 11’s timelord-less run, we’ve only had one season where the big bad wasn’t the Master or some other timelord. I think we’re due a change of pace.
Maybe it’s because I’ve ignored previews and trailers, but I was surprised (not unpleasantly so) that Gatwa used his native Rwandan accent rather than a British accent. He will clearly be a groundbreaking doctor in many ways.
This was my favorite of this series of specials. I was pretty concerned that they had cast NPH as The Master for a bit there (I’m a NuWho Noob, so I had never heard of The Toymaker), but aside from that, it was pretty good! Ended up skipping through the song-and-dance number, though. Just wasn’t for me. Intrigued by the bi-generation twist and the new generation. We got too little of 15 to really develop any sort of insight, but he seems solid enough so far. Looking forward to Christmas!
Also, where the hell did that hand come from at the end? It came from off the edge of the platform. Was it a POV shot? So confusing XD
The hand I think was a callback to Last Of The Time Lords where a hand with red nail polish retrieved the Master’s ring after he died to bring him back to life. The Toymaker mentioned that he beat the Master and trapped him in his gold tooth, so this is some sort of Master shenanigans I think.
Definitely a call back, but my question is more so the physicality of it in universe. That was the edge of a platform 50 some stories in the air, and the hand came from off the platform. Was it someone reaching through a hole in reality? An invisible floating entity that still cares about their nails? I’m very curious!
I love a Doctor Who script that understands that time travel screwiness aside, the thing that really works about Doctor Who is giving great actors a place to wax poetic and dramaticly chew the scenery. I felt that this episode did that nicely.
All four lead cast members rose to the occasion, and shared their energy.
I’m not sure I liked how the catch scene was done, but it’s also kind of perfect. That was never going to work without NPH, and I’m not sure anything less silly could have felt right.
Definitely my favorite of the specials. Thought the acting was great. I wish they didn’t do “catch” for the final game especially when they so poorly edited in all the catches. But whatever. And then i was shocked when Donna said “you don’t have to stay forever” and they completely missed the line “I dont want to go”. Felt like it would have been a great way to tie it up.
I would also suggest that ‘fetch’ came before ‘catch,’ but I doubt that would have made as compelling a scene since it would just be one throw off the Avengers Tower UNIT building.
A fun episode for sure, with a lot of turns I wasn’t expecting. Acting as always was top notch, from the Doctors and also NPH as the Toymaker. The episode does feel rushed though. There weren’t many moments to breathe and take in what was happening before being whisked off to the next plot point. All coming to a head when we have this never before seen mythic bi-generation, but we have to whizz past everyone’s reactions so we have time to play catch and wrap the episode up within the time limit. I don’t want to come off as overly negative because there was a lot to like here and I did enjoy it, but it really could have done with being a two-parter.
Because they didn’t die. But the Doctor didn’t point that out! He could’ve been like, ‘I didn’t kill the last four!’ But it wouldn’t have fit the tone.
Frankly this whole series of specials felt that way to me. I get they had a lot they wanted to accomplish, and I think what they ended up with was fine, but I am hoping this isn’t setting precedent for the next series. It felt so cramped and rushed.
I really enjoyed the Toymaker. Everything was so manic and fun but still dark.
I'm not sure I'm on board with 15 yet, the way he was going to sneak off felt odd, I don't trust him. I will say I've never liked a new doctor so it will grow but right now I'm like, nope!
But it was exactly like that when he lied to Donna and said he was going to park the TARDIS properly before coming in for dinner. Had she not called him back he was going to leave without a word.
When the doctor has done an irish exit in the past it feels good spirited, for the good of the others or for lighthearted mischief. This felt more sneaky.
I wasn’t understanding how the Doctor allowed the Toymaker into our reality.
I heard him say that his sprinkling the salt on the ship deck in the second special is what allowed the Toymaker to enter, but I don’t understand why just sprinkling salt on the ground would allow that to happen.
I’m not entirely sure the Doctor even knows for sure, or if he’s just guessing. I guess this is just one of those things where we have to suspend our disbelief and just accept it needed to happen for the episode to happen.
I appreciate the response, but I’m the type of person who wants my worldbuilding and lore to matter and make sense, even in more fanciful shows like Doctor Who.
When I was asking about was that he actually made some mention about the walls of reality breaking down or something (my paraphrasing), so I was hoping for someone to give a better explanation of that, specifically.
I totally get that! I think the specific answer they give in the episode is that he “played” at the edge of the universe by trying to hold off the Not Things with vampire rules. I’m not sure of the mechanics of it, but apparently playing at the edge of the universe lets in the Toymaker.
I don’t find this answer very satisfying myself, however, but I can’t seem to find a better one.
Not that it's especially convincing but I think that the idea was that he was 'playing a game' when he'd been doing that stuff with the salt and then thrown it out into the ether for no reason other than messing about.
Or something? I don't know. Much as I love a lot about RTD as a writer, he's definitely not a details man on story elements...
Fair enough, though without going down the rabbit hole, I gotta wonder how they break through the barrier from their reality to ours? I guess its ‘thin’ at the edges??
(Disclaimer: There was a little explanation in the episodes, but I’m mostly extrapolating here)
He attracted a being of “game play” by playing a trick (ie 'game) on the edge of reality, where the borders are less solid, thus attracting the Toymaker’s attention and giving them an anchor into this universe. Given how powerful they clearly are, it wouldn’t take much to give them enough to make their way in.
As I understand it, in the previous episode the ship was on the edge of existence, with big parts of the universe now missing because of the Flux. With the salt he invoked a superstition at the edge of reality, where the boundaries are weaker which let the Toymaker get through somehow.
This is the 4th time the Doctor has regenerated into David Tennant (Eccleston -> Tennant, Tennant -> Tennant, Whitaker -> Tennant, Tennant -> Tennant again) out of 15 lives, so anytime the Doctor regenerates there’s about a 26% chance of him turning into David Tennant lol.
That strange sense of weirdness and confusion is probably the closest I’ll ever get to the feeling viewers in the '60s must have had watching William Hartnell regenerate into Patrick Troughton.
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