What's an equivalent replacement for the word "lame"?

I don’t know if I’m just becoming overly sensitive to my own language or if this is an actual issue, so feel free to let me know if it seems that I just need to grow thicker skin, but still.

I keep getting this uneasy feeling whenever I use the word “lame” and I think it’s because I’m starting to realize it’s technically ableist. However, there’s no single non-profane word that I know of that fits the niche that I use it in.

For example, I wrote out something earlier about a behavior I do that I don’t like that I do because I think it’s kind of shitty behavior, but it’s overall harmless. I use lame to describe it casually. I could also call it kind of shitty, as I did before, but not to audiences that I don’t want to use profanity around.

Anyone know of a word I can replace “lame” with?

I’d say maybe weak, but that’s got its own baggage that I’m not sure I’m ok with switching to. Annoying is too strong of a word for what I’m going for. Maybe lame is a short word for “this makes me feel slightly sad”?

Idk, so I open it up to the public: Is this even an issue or am I being too sensitive? Could this be solved in a single replacement word or do I need a whole ass phrase to express this?

CurlyWurlies4All,
@CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net avatar

Cheugy

eladnarra,

Sounds like folks have given a good number of alternatives, but I just wanted to share a resource: “Ableism/Language” by Lydia X. Z. Brown. It goes through a bunch of ableist words and suggests alternatives. :)

FlickOfTheBean,

My biggest take away was:

Ableism is not a list of bad words. Language is one tool of an oppressive system. Being aware of language – for those of us who have the privilege of being able to change our language – can help us understand how pervasive ableism is. Ableism is systematic, institutional devaluing of bodies and minds deemed deviant, abnormal, defective, subhuman, less than. Ableism is violence.

So the language itself isn’t ableist, technically, according to this, but abilism is when the person using the language thinks of the negative stereotypes associated and uses that to justify some shitty position or action.

So in other words, while lame is acknowledged as a problematic word, it’s not inherently abilist to use it, which is not a takeaway I was expecting to get.

Let me know if I misread it, but thank you for posting! It was an informative read!

foxtrots,
@foxtrots@beehaw.org avatar

I think it’s a super complicated topic. My understanding of the quote is that ableism is much bigger and more complicated than language, but we should be aware of how our language reflects ableist views - like the normalization of ableist slurs into our everyday vernacular, for example. In other words, our society is so comfortable with ableism, that even disabled people and advocates for disability rights may use ableist terminology regularly, whether or not they’re aware of the origins.

I, personally, don’t believe that “lame” is necessarily a word that needs to be changed, but I do believe it’s a word with ableist origins. Like our conversation on “dumb”, IMO most people don’t think about the technical definition of “lame” anymore - but I might be wrong, or it might be regional. It’s ultimately a personal choice whether or not it feels hurtful - and obviously, if someone tells you to not use a term around them, that’s important to respect.

The key takeaway, to me, is that we should be mindful of how much ableism is normalized in our lives. I think you’re definitely doing that, based on this post. It doesn’t mean that using terms on this list is only ableist if you’re thinking negatively about disabled people when you use it; it means that we should be thoughtful with our language, but more importantly, thoughtful of how our words and actions may be reinforcing hurtful systems. To use the example from before - if someone doesn’t use the word “crazy” except when describing mentally ill people, that can speak to how they see mentally ill people as not just people who are ill, but as people who are undesirable boogeymen.

Take it on a case-by-case basis, IMO, and follow your gut if you feel shitty about certain words - better safe than sorry. But, at the end of the day, it’s just… complicated!

enthusiasticamoeba,

I appreciate your nuanced take.

eladnarra,

Hm… I’d actually disagree with that conclusion? I think what the author is saying there is that ableism isn’t simply a matter of the words being used. A statement that treats disabled people as subhuman isn’t okay because it avoids using these words - it’s still ableist.

From the beginning of the article (emphasis mine):

Note that only some of the words on this page are actually slurs. Many of the words and phrases on this page are not generally considered slurs, and in fact, may not actually be hurtful, upsetting, retraumatizing, or offensive to many disabled people. They are simply considered ableist (the way that referring to a woman as emotionally fragile is sexist, but not a slur).

Not everyone has the ability to be mindful of how certain language originated in ableism and this reinforces it. But for those of us who can, it’s a good idea to try.

FlickOfTheBean,

Hmm I wonder if I may have shot past the more straightforward way to parse it.

I’m coming from a stance where “don’t do it as soon as you know it’s ableist” is voiceless rule, so that significantly colors how I’m interpreting it.

That response was more me being like “oh wow this is essentially saying ignorance is an excuse for using ableist language” (caveats run amok here like “only when there are no known other words” as well as “strictly only when one isn’t employing a shitty stereotype when referring to whoever they’re referring to”)

Admittedly, I can see how that is still a less than desirable takeaway, but all I’m trying to say is I 100% agree with what you’ve written.

Tldr; thank you for the clarification! Full agree and this is mostly just me trying to figure out where some disconnect is

enthusiasticamoeba,

This is great! I’ve been noticing more ableism in my own vocabulary, but was frustrated with not knowing enough good substitutes. Thanks!

ohokthatsgood,

I like “bogus” or “whack”

thismessisaplace,

Your Alma Mater is whack!

ArtZuron,
@ArtZuron@beehaw.org avatar

I do like using Whack yeah

FlickOfTheBean,

That’s a good one, I like that. Thanks for the suggestion!

LoamImprovement,

Maybe I’m getting too old to understand the lingo, but I thought that’s what ‘mid’ was for? Not good, but not bad enough to warrant a stronger reaction. Just mid.

NightAuthor,

I feel like lame is cool as mid is to awesome. They’re like words for positions on spectrums of stuff, but two different spectrums.

Maybe a simple “uncool” would suffice for OP.

FlickOfTheBean,

I wouldn’t describe “only texting someone when you need something” as mid though, if that helps at all

apis,

Disappointing, lacklustre, underwhelming, missing, sad, less considered.

I think it is good to reflect on the language we use, but also to be forgiving of ourselves if making the improvements we want to implement isn’t always totally smooth.

FlickOfTheBean,

This post made me realize that the word I’m looking for is likely “inconsiderate”. Thank you! Sad is definitely close too.

And I agree, I try not to be too hard on myself when I slip on language I prefer to use. I don’t think being too hard on myself is productive in any way anymore.

sub_,

Maybe dull or boring?

I’ve also stopped using the word ‘dumb’ when referring to ‘stupid’. Nowadays I only use the word dumb for muteness, and I rarely even use that word anymore, mostly mute.

foxtrots,
@foxtrots@beehaw.org avatar

I’m not mute, but to me, using “dumb” to describe someone who is mute sounds… worse? It feels like the equivalent of recognizing that “crazy” has baggage and not using it in everyday speech, but continuing to use it to describe mentally ill people. I understand that it’s not a perfect comparison, but it feels like sometimes, words become too enmeshed in their modern-day insulting uses to feel okay using them to describe a community, even if it is the technical definition of the word.

If anyone who is mute/nonverbal/nonspeaking sees this and I’m wrong - please let me know!! I don’t mean to overstep, I just want to share my perspective.

FlickOfTheBean,

I gotta agree with you.

It feels like dumb has more baggage than meaning to the point that the baggage has become the meaning. I feel like lame is on the precipice of having the same problem, which is kind of a big motivator for me making this post to begin with.

jarfil,

Is that a bad thing, though?

Language evolves, words start by describing something, to become euphemisms for something else, to become swears, to end up as a description of the swear, and ultimately get either reused as a description of something else, or fall out of use.

Sounds to me like “lame” or “dumb” are quite far gone on that progression, to the point of becoming detached from the original meaning for most people. It’s great to avoid using them with the slur meaning, or in presence of those who understand it as a slur… but spreading awareness of, or teaching, the negative meaning to people who might have never encountered it, sounds like pushing the progression backwards, entrenching the word as a slur even among those who don’t use it as one.

sigmaklimgrindset,

English is not my native language, and I’ve had the origins of “lame” explained to me as well.

I started using “How dull” or “x activity seems dull” and apparently it still gives off the same amount of ennui as using “lame”, so you might try that?

FlickOfTheBean,

That’s a good idea too. I think the word I was looking for was “inconsiderate” but these are fantastic solutions for other situations as well!

buckykat,

Shitty

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

“Cringe” is seemingly used that way in current slang, though with an added layer of thought.

sigmaklimgrindset,

“Cringe” doesn’t have the emotional devastation that “lame” with an eyeroll does, at least according to my mother.

huginn,

Your mother is wrong:

IDC lame but I’d move mountains to avoid being cringe

LallyLuckFarm,

“Cringe” is still a verb to many people, and being understanding of different interpretations leads to better dialogue. Knowing how to bridge those gaps with effective language can lead to intergenerational cooperation.

Pure snark which I hope you’ll see is intended to show I’m saying this as some gentle ribbing and not to put down your perspective.

sigmaklimgrindset,

You try telling my mother she’s wrong, I’m not fighting that woman over something subjective like “cringe” lol

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Only because your mom grew up with lame. If she was your age and grew up with cringe, it would hit the same way. I’m a bit in that group, I just am very attached to language so am a bit more sensitive to how it’s used to see the parallels.

sigmaklimgrindset,

Oh I’m not disagreeing, cringe is 1000% worse than lame to me. I just think it’s really funny how devastated she would be every time I said something she liked was “lame”.

Boozilla,
@Boozilla@beehaw.org avatar

Cringe is far too overused IMHO. Especially online.

If something is “lame” it’s probably unoriginal, derivative, boring, or annoying.

FlickOfTheBean,

Cringe is just too visceral for what I’m describing though.

Lame would be a 3/10 while cringe would be like a 5/10, using cringe in its least meaningful form. A full on cringe is like a 8/10 (and depending on who I’m talking to, it seems to sometimes hit like a 10/10)

LallyLuckFarm,

Personally, I think it’s fantastic that you’re examining your language in this way. It’s certainly not ill-mannered, unsolicitous, infelicitous, or untoward of you to do so.

FlickOfTheBean,

Ahh those are all fantastic, thank you!

rando_nneur,

Uncool or cringe maybe? Boring might also fit.

loops,

To me, the definition of ‘lame’ meaning like a lame leg or something is too dated to be the first thing most people think of in most contexts.

ArtZuron,
@ArtZuron@beehaw.org avatar

That’s my thinking too. It’s too removed from its roots to really have a negative context for most folks.

evranch,

As a rancher “lame” is in regular usage, but it’s something that happens to animals and not to people.

A person with a persistent leg injury would simply be referred to with a sentence like “Jim’s got a bad leg, he’s walked like that since a bull ran him over”

pbjamm,
@pbjamm@beehaw.org avatar

Good friend of mine has a gimpy leg after 2 too many motorcycle accidents. He is lucky to have one of them at all. I dont think “lame” has ever come up in context of him or his infirmary.

millie,

‘Gimpy’ in this context is definitely an ablist slur.

abbadon420,

This post is so FlickOfTheBean (Just kidding, of course. I sometimes use “meh” around people who know what a meme is, or “lukewarm” around more older or formal people)

nickwitha_k,

“Unfortunate”, maybe.

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