They should just be banned entirely. How many doping scandals does it take? The presence of their athletes is all Russia cares about. They’ll Photoshop in some flags and parade it around state TV.
No source, but past evidence of scandals ( 100 mt quite eveery record by doped athletes ). Some athletes are breeded like cattles ( see the history of a famous chinese basketball player )
I don’t think that’s fair to the athletes. They have all worked super hard to make it to the olympics and they shouldn’t be banned because of their birthplace.
I don’t think it’s fair to the other athletes who also worked super hard to make it to the Olympics. It’s not a prestigious competition if it’s full of cheaters.
They are not allowed to represent their birthplace because the birthplace actively financing and supporting systematic doping. That is not the same as they are being banned.
I have no understanding for why you want to represent that.
Why should doping even be illegal? You sound a lot like chuds talking about trans athletes
Competition will never be perfectly fair, Michael Phelps is a genetic freak who’s just better at swimming than most people due to his insane lung capacity but he’s still allowed to compete
Countries and contestants have all agreed that doping is not allowed. If you promise something and have no intention to keep the promise you are in fact a liar.
There has been, and probably still is, a government funded doping program in Russia. So not only have their contestants been proved to be cheaters, Russia has been caught sponsoring it all too.
So while you like to derail this discussion towards on whether doping should be allowed or not it still doesn’t change the fact that Russia actively promoted cheating.
The original Olympic truce required everyone to lay down their arms. It would go against the spirit to selectively enforce this. Not that the IOC actually cares about the legacy of the games, they tried to remove wrestling at one point.
Good lord, the comments on that article. I guess I shouldn’t expect any better from RT, but man it does really make me sad that so many people are happy living in a fantasy world where Ukrainians are the bad guys in this conflict.
That is going to require them to train their military or something. So I’m guessing it might be easier for them to just wait a couple of thousand years until all of Europe is underwater as it will be faster.
I think this is a bad faith reading of the other comment. Perhaps Warrior of Ukraine meant that they’re European, and as such is more emotionally and intellectually invested in the war in Ukraine than in the ongoing conflict of non-Europeans (which you rightly identified as “people too”, of course) in Palestine/Israel.
And I think I absolutely correctly read “Who cares about those people, they’re not Europeans”, and the quotes about the word conflict were just a cherry on top. The correct answer to whatabout is not “we should only care about my issue because I am important and you are less than that”.
I didn’t see that intention. Perhaps u/[email protected] would come back and clarify his intent. Otherwise, I largely agree with you. Whataboutism makes it as if when you care about one thing, you have to care about every thing, but no one person can fix every thing. It makes cynics of us all
Plans have been discovered that Russia intended to invade other countries including Moldova and the other surrounding eastern European countries once they were done with Ukraine. Putin had no plans to stop his conquest, he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union.
This. Ukraine is the last bastion of freedom and humanity keeping the barbarians from invading Europe. We already saw what the Soviets did to Europe and the Russians are trying to do that again.
Good. I hope to see the EU and the country of “Ukraine” removed from the map. The world will know peace further than it does now if Russia were able to do that
Pretty sure invading another country for their natural resources doesn’t make you the good guys, no matter what excuse your country invents to justify their actions.
If Ukraine had not been threatening Russia by allowing NATO in, might not be an issue. Ukraine can continue to lose and I will enjoy the sight. Keep defending losing fascists
It’s not this, it’s this whole subreddit. Might as well call it world_politics_gore_debate_bait.
Edit: to the stink bugs trying to dunk on me for doing exactly what I wanted to do when referring to this place looking like the worldnews subreddit, look up “metaphor” in a dictionary and stfu
You: no, nightmares are not real life, you’re wrong.
You are my shining star.
You: There are no stars on Earth, you’re a moron and I’m dumping you.
Look at this pigsty!
You: This subreddit is not a pigsty, you are an illiterate moron
That athlete is a machine.
You: go learn what a machine is, you’d never make it as an engineer, because I’m in your head and know you didn’t intentionally mean to use a metaphor, because I’m full of myself and you’re a dumb anon.
The difference between you and me in this respect is that I have no shame in apologizing when wrong, while you not so much. Why am I losing time with this? Because people like me have an interest in having people like you be a little less self-righteous.
The rare quadruple down on the dumb. Calling a lemmy community a subreddit is not a metaphor, it’s objectively wrong. No matter how many non-applicable examples you provide. How are you this dense? (That’s rhetorical btw)
Because people like me have an interest in having people like you be a little less self-righteous.
lmfao the projection of writing this at the end of the most self righteous comment I’ve read on lemmy yet is delicious.
It’s particularly upsetting because lemmy.ml is a major instance. IMO, moderation in this c/ is infrequent and underwhelming. I don’t mean to hang the mods out to dry; it would take a big team to wade through this effluent and tame the trolls. The hostile “Here comes the Reddit refugees” and “OMG Tankie brigade” shit is just the easy stuff. A rule on lazy whataboutism would help the signal/noise ratio as well. This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
This is why so many instances defederate from hexbear, they do this in every comment section. Just turn it into whataboutism against the US, and add nothing to the topic that’s actually being discussed by the article. They’re basically lemmygrad but brigade comment sections more often.
This isn’t about their political views in particular, this is about them brigading comment sections and derailing from the original topic and shouting down anybody who disagrees.
Defederation because of political views is, frankly, dangerous for democracy.
What? This is such a ridiculous claim I’m not even sure where to start. Federation does not equal democracy, and defederation from a shitty spammy instance has zero impact on democracy.
Political views aren’t like football teams or favorite colors. Not all political views are valid, should be protected or accepted. If there are people who want to restrict gay marriage because they find gay people disgusting, and on the other hand people who want to leave gay people in peace, why would any sane society tolerate both views?
The democratic obsession with protecting violence, hate and bigotry under the guise of “just an opposing opinion” is infuriating. I don’t think people of opposing views should have the right to argue for them. I want them to stop having those opinions or be removed. Politics isn’t something you can agree to disagree on, it’s a permanent struggle of life and death, poverty and wealth, peace and war. It’s not something I want to stay civil over.
There’s about as much discourse here as rival football hooligans having it out in the streets. A lot of violence but it doesn’t really change the score. What’s the point of talking when no one’s listening?
Defederation is not censorship. All it means is that nobody on that instance wants to hear your bullshit, and are showing you the door. You’re able to make an account on another federated instance if you wanted to hear those vitriolic, harmful people.
Re: “dangerous for democracy”. That’s a little hyperbolic, don’t ya think?
I don’t support defederation. I think the calls for defederation strictly arise from political clashes that boil out of control and people that don’t remember the Internet-that-was, before Reddit. “Free speech absolutist” wasn’t a thing because no one pictured their little forum as mattering that much. Forum moderation wasn’t about enforcing a specific world view or preserving an echo chamber, it was about preserving civil discourse. And since I’m typing this out I might as well add that I think if I was to dust off an early 90’s or 2000’s mod hat, I’d do the following:
Referring to other commenters as reddit refugee/hexbear/liberal/grad/imperialist/shill/anti-westerner ‘s is a 3 day ban
Bringing up the Iraq War, Tienanmen Sq, etc is a 3 day ban. Not some conspiracy to bury the truth. It’s because everyone’s friggin’ heard it already and we definitely don’t need more of it.
Lazy whataboutism is a 1 day ban. This is vaguely defined for a purposeful chilling effect.
War Is Bad. When not the topic of the article, fantasizing about a US-Ruso conflict/popular uprising/Taiwan invasion/WW3 is a 1 day ban.
What do people want this place to be? A place where all sides can meet (if they strictly behave)? An echo chamber? A raging angry gladiator pit? Like I said above, as a major Lemmy instance, this place should be downright boring and the extremists can retreat to other instances better suited to their anger.
Brigading is their entire purpose for existence on this site, they actively plot to harass and invade other instances to deny people a platform and talk about where to spread their “forces” next. They were taking bets on where they’ll be defederated next. They were never on this platform to participate in good faith.
Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
When your entire schtick is anti-westernism then yeah it is that hard. I really don’t mind the comrades at lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, they generate some thought provoking content at times. However their blind, predictable, and endlessly repeated talking points are tiresome in the same way that an invasion of Fox News viewers would be.
Another centerist attempting to equivicate the left who wants civil rights for all to the right who want to melt anyone the left advocates civil rights for. Yes, your rainbow capitalism will certainly save this planet.
“My post is about black crime, stop mentioning other things like white crime. Yes, I only post about black crime, are you trying to say black people never commit crime? That they should be allowed to commit crime? Thought so.”
Sometimes bringing up context is important for discussing issues that some people would like to keep in a vacuum. The US competing at those same Olympic games under no penalty would be fucked up and makes it obvious that if Belarus was penalized here, it would be due to western politicking and nothing else (Russia already has the doping issue, so idk about that one)
No, you’re not helping. At all. It’s flamebait that can only derail the topic and turn into a circle jerk or verbal fistfight.
Here’s an example that may help: Why is China allowed to participate in the Olympics despite their genocides and brutal crackdowns? Why the double standard?
I’m sure china is rounding up its citizens and putting them into reeducation camps based on their ethnicity and religious beliefs for reasons other than ethnic cleansing.
Being left wing doesn’t mean you absolutely must support china, especially since a lot of chinese policies are decidedly right wing and almost overwhelmingly authoritarian.
Like nost other “communist” parties in power before them, the CCP is populated mostly by self interested bourgeois that coopted the revolution and pursued a path of oppression against its own people.
Authoritarians gonna authoritate, who’d have guessed.
Saved. Thanks for the comprehensive resource. Now, if only everyone was eager to read before slandering other countries online… Not that China is a perfect utopia, but simply gobbling whatever information comes to the public by media that have an interest in defending “the West” is the quickest path to have your consent manufactured.
This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation.
the ‘punishment’ of russia is night and day to what we saw happen to the US and its western allies after the invasion of iraq. you can go and cry about ‘whataboutism’ as much as you’d like, but those of us who live in a world not shrouded by a willful amnesia of a past historical events can see the gross display of hypocrisy for what it is—namely a confirmation by the western world that some victims (of war) are worth more than others
You’re not wrong, but just because the USA and UK got away with it doesn’t mean we should continue to let others get away with it. We can’t go back in time and fix it but we’ve got to start somewhere.
Why are we letting the people responsible for Iraq and Afghanistans current state get away with it? Like if the US wants to arrest a war criminal Bush and Cheney are right there. Same for Blair, or Harper, or any of the other architects of the invasions.
I’m not saying they should get away with it, I’m just saying that we shouldn’t let Russia get away with it because the United States and the UK got away with it. It’s like the Boomer argument that it’s not fair to them for student loans to be forgiven because they had to pay.
Do you not understand why I said that? I would not support student loan forgiveness only for white people because, while I like student loan forgiveness, I can recognize that such a program would ultimately just be in the interest of white supremacy. I wouldn’t pull the disingenuous liberal line of “you’ve gotta start somewhere” as though the policy was tethered to some imaginary future state that it is nominally more similar to but practically much further from.
Likewise, saying “well, at least by holding Belarus to account some countries will be held to account, which gets us closer to all countries being held to account!” is absurd. It promotes western dominance, not the abstract idea of “holding countries to account”. Striking only one side saying that it’s closer to both sides being struck than striking zero sides would be is sophistry.
I’m not sure where in the world you live, but for myself, I’m in a western country. It would be far more easy for my country to hold the architects of the Afghanistan invasion to account than Putin. The fact that my government doesn’t indicates that all the talk of punishing Russia has nothing to do with punishing aggression, it’s just about punishing a rival
It’s actually far easier to hold putin to account than western leaders - the western hegemony is hardly going to turn on itself, but it can easily send arms to Ukraine.
That this arming of ukraine is for completely self interested reasons doesn’t mean it also has the side effect of helping a country fight tyranny. A good thing done for bad reasons can still be a good thing.
You’re trying to say by implication that the ship has sailed on Bush and Obama, but they’re still alive. The USA Olympics team is still around. Even if you should’ve banned them in 1890 doesn’t mean you still can’t. They haven’t apologised, paid reparations, or ceased any of their human rights violating projects.
Because bourgeoisie law does three things. Firstly it protects capital against individuals. Secondly it protects itself against individuals so it can maintain “order”. Finally, it prevents capital against itself, to prevent it devouring itself in competition or sucking hard enough to create a revolutionary populace. Protecting individuals against each other or against capital is not the purpose of law enforcement, much less protecting people from war criminals. (Btw if anyone can find the parenti lecture this was based off, please tell me because i forget)
Why are we letting China get away with it? Why are we letting Saudi Arabia get away with it? The IOC is a toaster and it’s like you’re asking it to make you a whole roast dinner. It can’t even make toast properly…
I’m not asking for anything, I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy in calling for punishing Russia for war crimes when in every respect the US and her vassals have committed and are committing orders of magnitude more violence in the last couple decades
You realise by targetting an official enemy state of the most powerful of the lot, we’re essentially rewarding them? And making them more powerful on the world stage? So a fixation on CN and RU is inherently going to become counter-productive to goals of stability and human development etc.
it’s just a coincidence that this stuff only ever starts with our state enemies huh? only the bad countries get sanctioned for doing the same things we/our allies do. only Russia has to compete with neutral flags. only African leaders get prosecuted in the ICC.
it’s all nonsense used to manufacture consent for war and military spending
Have you played sports before? Even at the high school level teenagers are pumping their body full of steriods. I saw them do it myself, I’ve heard the stories from my friends who played rugby. Just look at top high school rugby or american football teams physiques, or at the cardio capacity of teenage track and field athletes. You really think that level is attainable without performance enhancing drugs, at such a widespread level? You really think that stops once these athletes become adults? How about the fact that all of Usain Bolt’s competition got caught doping? You can’t be this gullible. Seriously, read the article I’ve linked below.
Russia’s sin here was official state involvement, not doping. As long as you pass the drug tests, nothing matters. Remember that Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test. Does that mean he’s a clean athlete? Of course not, and neither was any of his competition. The same applies to the Olympics, the same applies to almost all competitive sports.
I’m going to assume you follow one or both, and that you’re aware of the high prevalence of PEDs in both.
Now how are Olympic sports different than those leagues? Is there less of an incentive to cheat? Is the IOC more interested in preventing cheating? Do the athletes not care as much?
If anything, there is likely more doping in the Olympics because you have the resources of state actors backing athletes, see, e.g., Russia.
There is nothing that makes cycling significantly different from any other sport in terms of the advantages of doping, the testing for it, or the means of evasion.
Why make such a stupid comment? “Oh you mean literally every athlete is doping, well show me the piss of literally every athlete ever, oh that’s impossible? Fucking rekt”
You should be directing that comment to the dingus who literally claimed every athlete is doping in response to me. Try reading previous comments before acting like a dipshit while deep in the thread. Lol
He didn’t. That’s not how language works and you know it – you told me you knew it was hyperbole in another comment! Maybe try and have a conversation instead of this pedantic 🤓 “ummm ACKSHUALLY your statement is not LITERALLY 100% correct and backed up by six sources of my liking” garbage.
The United States are the GOATs of state sponsored and planned doping at the Olympics. Many of the involved doctors have talked about it in the decades since the '84 Olympics.
“Not arresting this black man for possession of 0.01 grams of weed isn’t going to go back in time and punish all those white guys we let go despite possessing much more weed. Cuff him, boys.”
Punished for what? Throwing money and military support towards everyone when they need it? Oh, that. Right. As always, hating the USA is what the cool kids do these days. Until they need taxpayer money or military support. I’d love to see us cut off every ounce of support we give to other nations and see how that works out.
Lmao, the US, simultaneously the strongest and coolest country in the world and a cucked nation that can be bullied by even the smallest african country into giving away free protection.
I’d love to see us cut off every ounce of support we give to other nations and see how that works out.
Me too! It would be an incredible turn of events that would massively benefit the world. Could you throw in removing the blockades on Cuba and the DPRK and others while you are at it?
What support do you think you give? The “support” you give is either A) The cost of running your own propaganda, and paying target-nation actors. B) Weapons you buy from your own capitalists. C) Bribes in exchange for target-nation puppets to exploit their own people for the benefit of your capitalists. There is no fourth category.
“Just because we let the world’s most prolific serial killer get away with it doesnt mean he shouldnt be allowed to keep murdering if he pinky swears his victims really deserve it this time.”
We can’t go back in time and fix it but we’ve got to start somewhere.
We are in total agreement here, and we can start by seizing the levers of power, purging the government of capitalists, withdrawing all troops from everywhere and using them for reforestation work, dismantling the IMF, paying reparations to every country we’ve victimized, and putting every fossil fuel executive and lobbyist against the wall for their omnicidal crimes against all terrestrial life.
Sorry, you’re right. In the absence of specific genocidal intent, the US and UK are only guilty of crimes against humanity, the crime of aggression, and various sundry war crimes.
Saddam Hussein didn’t literally genocide kurdish people? Not saying that justifies a country halfway across the world to brutally occupy them, but it’s not like that didn’t happen.
In the former instance there was an actual concerted effort to specifically murder people of a certain minority. In the latter there was a misguided attempt to squash an insurgency and build a new government at all costs. This is documented history and I can only assume you’ve been drooling on some communist furry subs for the past decade and just left adolescence. You can’t just change word’s definitions for your own childish deranged goals.
The fucking nerve of you to invoke the idea of ‘documented history’ when you’re as ignorant as a fucking toddler about that very history is absolutely fucking infuriating. And for someone who puts so much goddamned effort into your affectation of intelligence you have absolutely no fucking critical thinking. The US, this hapless buffoon of a country. Accidentally murdering several million people over the course of three decades. Whoopsie! I deleted the only pharmaceutical factory in the region. D’oh! I bombed a baby food factory and all the civilian power and water infrastructure! How does this keep happening??
And the fucking chauvinism. It’s genocide when our enemy uses chemical weapons during wartime in an area with a lot of insurgent fighting (compare us killing another several million people in Vietnam with our own chemical weapons for the exact same reasons except deliberately targeting their food supply but that’s not considered a genocide somehow). They killed about 3k people but they did it with animal bloodlust. But we’re good. We killed A THOUSAND TIMES THAT MANY PEOPLE but with good intentions. Promise.
People like you are mathematical proof that the west needs to be fucking destroyed.
You see the double standard you’re using here, right? Awful things done by natos geopolitical enemies are genocides, war crimes,… Yet when nato does it it’s at most a misguided atempt at doing the right thing?
It’s because you’ve been a petulant, condescending little fancylad while morshupls your watering down of the term genocide and accusing the people with actual documentation on their side of doing what you’re doing. To paraphrase someone else, you guys have your Wrong and Smug sliders completely maxed out, to the point where you (not you personally, at least yet) quickly get solipsistic and start dehumaizing people with different opinions as bots as soon as the notion that your views are obviously correct, good and widespread is even slightly challenged.
Yes, but that is not a valid reason to justify the war because an autonomous Kurdish zone had already been set up after the Anfal in 1992. The only way Iraqi troops got in there is when the KDP invited them in during the Kurdish Civil War from 1994-7. Then once that was mediated and the KRG was split into two the Iraqi Army was no longer allowed in. The only real change 2003 brought was the legalising and formal institutionalisation of the KRG such that foreign capital was more willing to invest in it (encouraged, in fact, as the US tried to rebuild Iraq to stabilise things) and it had a big shiny “legal” sticker on it. The realities on the ground didn’t change though, especially as the constitutional articles surrounding referendums on Kirkuk and other disputed areas never came to fruition.
So by 2003 the Kurdish Question in Iraq had not been solved, but it had certainly been pacified in intensity, because a de facto independent KRG already existed!
I get what you’re saying, though. Yes, Saddam was an abhorrent and awful leader who was a genocidaire. However, the war was still an illegal catastrophe based on falsehoods that made things drastically worse for the Iraqi people. It is unjustifiable even when you take Saddam’s terrible-ness into account.
Nah you just pearl clutched when we called Western Powers bad names.
I’m loosely in favor of restricting the use of the word genocide to when it’s definitionally appropriate myself, but that’s in the context of effective communication and clarity. So long as “genocide” is going to be used exclusively to refer to US State Department desginated enemies only, then it’s perfectly reasonable to liken the US/France/UK’s horrific foreign interventions genocide as well. Western interventions, both formal and clandestine, have killed many more than anyone else those imperialist fucks have accused of the word, so in the interest of showing just how absurd their usage is yes, we should and can call Western powers genocidal too.
When you say it like that sure, except they also deny the Uyghur genocide and ignore the fact that China has their internet walled off and heavily censored/policed.
Basically they’re so pro-communism that they looped back around and are now pro-fascists and drink the Kool aid. Not to mention the fact that China is only communist in name lol
Does not seem like words have meanings. All the nuance in your tank is reserved for the constant America-led warmongering in the middle east with a death toll in millions, many more displaced, and known torture sites like Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and god known how many more black sites. Meanwhile the Uyghur are unequivocally being genocided despite ZERO CONFIRMED CASUALTIES four years into the news cycle. So your litmus test for genocide seems to be US foreign policy despite the emphasis on words having meaning.
astral_avacado said elsewhere that the Iraq Invasion was just “misguided” so its definitely a case of us-foreign-policy with how they decide what is and isn’t a genocide.
I mean I do agree with you (as a genocide studies scholar in training, God willing!), but I think your view of the US as just a clumsy, misguided oaf doing the wrong thing for the right reasons is not accurate. It was never the case that the US tried to build a democratic government and failed-from the very start the US instilled Bremer (that idiot) as a dictator; he openly restricted freedom of the press, freedom of speech and association, and had people critical of the CPA arrested. Then afterwards the US tried to interfere in the elections to support Allawi but failed miserably. The CIA and the US embassy has always had a huge role in the picking of Iraqi Prime Ministers and other ministers and has never stopped quashing Iraqi self-determination and democratic will. Just look at what they supported Maliki through!
Thank you for your well informed comment, the whole thing was indeed a clusterfuck and you know more than me. What are you doing on that godforsaken instance?
I am a socialist and it is nice to be among socialists, put simply. I disagree with plenty of them on many issues but honestly I have not found people rude or mean to me-indeed, even less so than on liberal forums e.g., reddit. Plus there is an energetic solidarity and support for marginalised ppl (I am disabled + poor + mentally ill) that you do not get in most communities because I feel they understand more so the structural roots behind these marginalisations (since they are socialists!).
Also I was on hexbear since the start (the migration from /r/cth to chapo.chat) and I don’t really know what Lemmy is lol.
Hey, this isn’t a terrible article but the source website is questionable at best. I am going to remove this topic, but if you have an article from a more reputable source please post it!
For 9 months, he’ll claim he doesn’t have them and also that he had the right to take them, even though they don’t exist (and also he shows them to folks at the resort).
In a year, he’ll claim he has been too busy to figure out which boxes the relics are stored in and needs time to separate out his golf shirts and newspaper clippings from among the relics, and also he doesn’t have them and has them and had every right to take them, and also Bibi begged him to take the relics as a gift to America.
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