Has Nintendo lost it's magic or is it just now waking up and making good games again - my thoughts included, but what are the views of Lemy users?

It needs to be said, but I want to know how some of you view Mario games and where they started and ended at.

My take- I feel that Nintendo hasn’t made a good Mario game since… 3D world on the 3DS/wiiU and before that… Mario Galexy and then… since Paper Mario on the original Wii. those games were in my opinion the best of what Mario has to offer as it was originally intended. Fun, colorful cartoony, and exciteing.

If I had to tell you to play between Paper Mario Wii edition (not Wii U) or New Super Mario Bros Wii. I would suggest Paper Mario for the over all better experience for a Mario game. Granted it’s considered a spinoff, it’s more colorful and you could tell the devs actually cared about making a good game there.

Super Mario Galaxy and Mario Sunshine are games that make me wonder the following. They chose the water flood gimmick over a real sequal to Super Mario 64 with fixed physics camera, and everything. Then on the Wii, they chose to not make a good Mario 64 sequal there they kept everything small and simplified, and focused on the gimick of the console. Think of how we went from Super Mario bros 1 to 3, and from 3 to world. But that never happened going from the N64 to the Gamecube.

For the longest to time, it’s been the spinoffs keeping Mario alive, super smash bros, Mario Kart… paper Mario if not for those all we would have right now would be dumped down Mario games like new super Mario bros u or the Mario 3d world (even tho its one of the best, it’s not as good as it should be) with no real innovation for Mario or excitment.

If they don’t make a real Mario game for next gen, as they did during the N64 erra, Mario will never be good again. Mario Wonder is not a next gen game, they held back all their best, and finally now they make a good looking 2d game. This is what we should had gotten on the Wii U launch.

Edit: the idea of a perfect next gen Mario game would be something that plays like like Super Mario 64 , but then the moving/running and jumping physics of what you get in the new super Mario bros including the wall jumping, and with character models looking more like something you’d see in Super Smash Bros Brawl for the best modern approach for what Mario is suppose to look like graphically. Odyessee, while the graphics are good, i’m not saying they are bad. For a Mario game they are out of place. Lastly as for the camera, the camea should control more freely with the right stick, kinda like how the camera in Rayman 3 would control as a comparison for 3d platformers. Of course my opinion isn’t the absolute solution.

snownyte,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

Nintendo's first party games, their top priority is to make games as fun as possible. Looking for a Mario game to be 'good' in the standards of what you consider to be good, is like hoping one day a Kirby game becomes soulslike because you felt they're too easy. The thing with Mario games is that, everyone is going to have a handful of Mario games that they like and they'll have some that didn't do it for them. I personally think Super Mario World is some of the best well-packaged Mario games around and I think Mario Teaches Typing is hot garbage.

BudgetBandit,

[Born 1994 here]

I honestly don’t see Super Mario 64 as that good nowadays. I’ve grown up with it, and I love it, but it certainly has its flaws.

I’ve grown up with it, playing it hundreds of hours on my uncle‘s N64, which then got mine. It just… the levels are bland. They each have their special theme, but, except some small sections in 4 levels (and the bowser levels) there isn’t much platforming going on, it’s mostly running.

And believe me when I say that I hated 2D platformers for over 20 years. They were just outdated and just for gameboys for me since we had 3-fucking-D.

I still don’t think that the 2D Mario games are as good as media says they are, but I enjoy them.

And please don’t rant about graphics. I haven’t played Wonders yet, but style is better than graphics. Take WindWaker for example: it got hated for its style back in the days but still looks good today.

As for SMGalaxy and Galaxy2: they were a-may-zing. I didn’t play Galaxy2 that much when it came out, I’ve only beaten it once and then sold it to GameStop because I was dumb.

rob299,

I agree that Super Mario 64 particularly hasn’t aged, wouldn’t it be great if Nintendo made a modern tripple a continuation of a game like Super Mario 64 with a better camera and better controls? They wouldn’t even have to call it Super Mario 64 2, call it something else, but make the colors similar, but more next gen to that. Improve the polygon resolution, make the textures better quality. It’s really not that hard, it’s a game that Mario desperately needs but Nintendo hasn’t done properly for the franchise.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the people running Nintendo going form the N64 to the Gamecube had changed but the Mario creator was there (I atleast think he was) to work on Mario Sunshine, I don’t get how they went from Super Mario 64 to Sunshine regarding the game mechanics such as the water flood.

rob299,

I added into the original post towards the end, my idea of what a real next gen Mario game should look like on the switch. and Nintendo isn’t delivering anything close to that. facts. On the 2d side of things Mario Wonder is a good game, I never did say it was bad. My argument for that game is simply that it was released wayyy too late for me to care, should had been on the Wii U and the fact that it isn’t worth $60 being a very basic 2d game. originally I thought it was $70 but I been corrected.

If Mario Wonder was 2.5 d then we would have a somewhat next gen Mario game because then it would be a real upgrade from the New Super Mario Bros franchise. but Mario Wonder really is just much of the same but with nicer looking colors. oh and new super Mario bros u is still 60 dollars. Why? beats me.

Mario Odeysee is the best Mario game on the switch, people keep thinking that i’m saying it’s a bad game, that’s not what i’m saying. however it isn’t the best 3D Mario game Nintendo could had made for the switch. and they themselves know that more then me that that is true just look at Mario games like- super paper Mario for the Wii. Just look at gameplay of the first stage in the game and tell me that anything on the switch compares to the amount of care and quality, for a Mario game to that.

Chee_Koala,

In your title you do mention “good games” were absent for a period, while you probably mean: “Mario games with the classic style”, that’s where a lot of miscommunication is coming from.

Nintendo pricing (especially further removed from launch) is pretty much space-magic.

I can relate tot odyssey graphics being more ‘hollywood’, but after I was a bit disappointed with sunshine (and have since come around to love it), I immediately fell in love with galaxy. Then galaxy 2 came around, wow. While it’s style is more modern then SM64, it does not feel as out of place as odyssey graphics to me. It felt too easy, but all Mario games feel too easy, I’m just a better platform-player nowadays.

morphballganon,

So, the thing to know here is, Nintendo has multiple teams. Some teams make better games than others. Each era has some excellent games and some mediocre games. Mario Galaxy 2 is outstanding, and came out around the same time as Skyward Sword, which was disappointing and unpolished. They were developed by different teams.

JWBananas,
@JWBananas@startrek.website avatar

At the risk of devolving into ad hominem…

I feel that Nintendo hasn’t made a good Mario game since… 3D world on the 3DS/wiiU and before that… Mario Galexy and then… since Paper Mario on the original Wii. those games were in my opinion the best of what Mario has to offer as it was originally intended. Fun, colorful cartoony, and exciteing.

…how old were you when those games were released?

rob299,

born in year 1999 and my first Mario game was Super Mario advance 2 super mario world for the gba, then New super mario bros ds, I didn’t actually get to play Super Mario 64 untill I got it on the wii virtual console. But the way I remember super mario world on the gba, including the cover art it was amazing. even looking at it now it just looks so nice. I was atleast 5 or 6 when I got into Mario, I use to be a big fan of Mario generally untill I realised Mario games were slowly losing the vibe from past, if not entirely.

I feel one of the main reason I know so much about Mario now is because back then I would go on the Wii consoles internet channel and google search about all the Mario games, and other times I would just go on the Wii shop channel and explore. Was a good time for me as a Mario fan.

bandario,
@bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Perhaps I’m missing the point here. What’s wrong with Mario wonder?

3D Mario games have all sucked imo. It’s a game that works best in 2D.

rob299,

The Two main points

  1. on the nes Mario started as a 2d platformer, and on the SNES, Mario evolved to the hardware and possibilities of the hardware and while introducing new characters it and powerups it stayed to its roots, on the N64 Mario went 3D because that was essentially the point of the next gen consoles and the game was great, although dated now, after came super Mario sunshine for the gamecube, what happened here? why didn’t we get a real 3d Mario platforming game on the Gamecube instead of this water cleaning mess, this is when Nintendo started downgrading the Mario games from their true pottential. Then on the Wii, while Mario Galexy would had been better as a spin off, not that it’s a bad game, it feels more like a spinoff or small experiment when you look at the history of the games. Sunshine also seems to had been a small experiment.
  2. The problem with Super Mario Wonder isn’t the game itself. I would even say it’s the best 2d Mario game of all time. But you’re telling me this couldn’t had been done on the Wii U or the Wii? It shouldn’t be $60 because the game is so basic being 2d. Now if it was 2.5 d looking as vibrant and exciting, then we’d be going somewhere, because then it would look more like something form the Super Smash Bros Brawl campain. But as it is, it doesn’t take advantage of the hardware that I bought, which would be fine if it wasn’t a full $60.

I agree with your point that 3d Mario games suck, because they do. Why tho? because it appears to me that Nintendo abandoned making real 3D Mario platforing games since the N64, everything after, while it may be 3d- either it has a special gimmick or- they over simplify the 3D platforming viewing experience. While Super Mario 64 may not be HD, it looks more interesting as a 3d platformer then say Super Mario 3d world, due to it being soo over simplified for even the Wii U console specs. Not all the games are necessarily bad, but they aren’t complete Mario experiences, alot of them are games that are trying to sell a gimmick, rather then the ip itself. Mario Sunshine started the trend with the water flood tank.

bandario,
@bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You clearly feel a lot more strongly about this than I do.

Life is too short to play bad games. Mario wonder wasn’t a bad game for me.

If your gripe is more with nintendo’s increasingly poor value proposition, predatory consumer practices and litigious bullshit then there’s more of a conversation to be had. I’d suggest your best revenge tools at this point are called Yuzu and Ryujinx.

rob299, (edited )

Mario Wonder is not a bad game, to me it’s just a little too late for a game like this, this could had been done easily on the last gen console, the Wii U when I was more open to the Mario games then most people because everyone was playing on the XBox 360 and Ps3, I was one of the real Mario game supporters of that console generation. but then… the Wii U happened… and then… all you would get on the switch were Wii U ports… besides odyssey. and now when the switch is about to be replaced by the next console soon, they finally make a new Mario game that’s actually good and charge full price for it.

I will never say that Mario wonder is a bad game, it’s a great game, if you have fun with it that’s great, I personally would have fun playing it myself. However, the point is not that the game is bad, it’s that it’s not as good as it should be for the hardware that the game is running on. I’m not expecting it to be like GTA quality, but I’m kinda rather expecting something in the mix of super Mario 64 and Super Mario sunshine but better for next gen. That’s my idea of a real Mario game.

bandario,
@bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I feel your frustration. I played New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009) on an emulator recently and then New Super Mario Bros. 2 (2012). They’ve literally been selling the same game over and over again for full price for 15 years.

I guess I just take this in another direction. I don’t yearn for some new fangled mario with better graphics, I just accept that I’m not going to pay for the same product over and over again.

rob299,

Your the only one that could meet half way and understand atleast where I am coming from. I don’t buy the Mario games, instead I just bought Toree 3D, Toree 2 and kiwi 64, 3 great 3D platformers although short, from this indie dev Siactro on the switch. Toree 3d and Toree 2 were both $1.00 each and kiwi 64 was $3 and kiwi 64 was shockingly good for the 3 dolar price tag. It was just short.

conciselyverbose,

It's a 2D platformer. Technology is no longer the limitation.

That's the reason the value proposition is so bad, too. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with any of the 2D Mario (or the rest of their 2d side scroller catalogue). It's that they're charging full AAA game price for content any indie can match at everything but the specific IP (and many do better).

Some of their ideology helps their games last the test of time reasonably well, and they're the biggest publisher that's so heavy in 2D side scrolling stuff, but the reality is that it's now so easy for a solo dev to publish in an extremely polished format that there's very little they could do that would justify their price point.

morphballganon,

Galaxy and Galaxy 2 are far superior to Wonder

rob299,

I agree with that.

Mugmoor,
@Mugmoor@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Your takes on Mario games are wild. Have fun never being happy with them.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Mario Odyssey was great and I won’t hear otherwise. Beautiful and diverse levels, lots of hidden moons, and some really complex and interesting new platform mechanics made for a fantastic game.

rob299,

I did say it was almost perfect. I’m not hinting that it was a terrible game even. But it’s steering Mario in a different direction, that doesn’t feel quite like Mario, more like a hollywood movie. I just wish a 3d platforming Mario game could get the Mario Wonder treatment. With colors, great platforming fun like super Mario 64 (which I know hasn’t aged itself) but in a modern twist. That is what they should do at some point. sooner, not 3 console later.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

The I found the colors to be beautiful, especially in the Mexican pyramid motif level. Can you be more specific about what you mean when you say it feels Hollywood? Are you referring to the plot of the game?

rob299,

When you play the game it feels like you’re in a movie of sorts. The jump up SuperStar theme inparticular makes Mario feel more like a Hollywood vibe. The levels look too realistic for a Mario gaame, while I don’t want something that looks like a blury old N64 game but they need to take inspiration from the color and art direction and make something that pops, almost like what they did with Super Mario Wonder, in which they took inspiration from form older 2d Mario games and made it better on the next gen system.

papalonian,

Reading this, it’s clear that you’re much more familiar with the series than I am and probably know what is found in “good” Mario games better than I do. But I really enjoyed Super Mario Galaxy on the original Wii when it came out, I was maybe 11 or 12 and sunk tons of hours into it and have been getting the itch to replay it since I have All Stars on my switch.

I’ve also heard nothing but good things about Odyssey (still haven’t played it despite owning the game)

rob299,

I just wish a 3d platforming Mario game could get the Mario Wonder treatment. With colors, great platforming fun like super Mario 64 (which I know hasn’t aged itself) but in a modern twist. That is what they should do at some point. sooner, not 3 console later. That is the one thing they seem to miss out on.

rob299,

Galaxy was actualy pretty good, but the main focus of that game was to sell the Wii remote pointer, rather then focusing on the platforming. At the time I wouldn’t say it was bad for what a Mario game should look like but it wasn’t really about Mario platforming but more about selling the Wii remote technology pointing it at the stars. I remember watching the trailers on the Nintnedo channel on the Wii and they really made sure to highlight the Wii remote pointer and collecting the stars.

PlasticExistence,

Super Mario Odyssey would like a word.

taiyang,

My exact thought reading this rant. That game was seriously good.

Newby,

Are you saying Odyssey is not a good Mario game?

rob299, (edited )

Mario Odysee, was a good Mario game overall however it seemed like they were going for a more Hollywood vibe then Mario vibe in this game and feel like it strives away from what Mario was and is. It’s one thing if Super smash bros does that, another if Mario drives away from what Mario is in its own game. Also the levels look more like Sonic then Mario.

Gameplay wise and mechanics it’s a great game, almost perfect, but it almost looks like Mario is going the direction of Sonic during the ps2 and Xbox 360 times, not necessarily broken games, but experimenting with new things but in a way that it doesn’t quite feel like how Mario is suppose to feel. Almost like how Sega tried making a shooter with Shadow the hedgehog for one. If they’d fix up the environments and the soundtrack it could easily be the best in the series.

iHUNTcriminals,

🥺 …But …it’sa me …a Mario…

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