do you think the framework laptop is a good long term investment?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=u01AbiCn_Nwmental outlaw video:

hi everyone, i was planning on getting a new laptop cheaply for about 500ish but then i stumbled upon this near-totally modular laptop rhat starts out at above 1000 bucks. do you think the cheaper laptop in the long run is just a false economy and i should go for the framework or what? if you want to ask questions go ahead but im mainly concerned about the longterm financials (and how well it will keep up over time)

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Warning: This comment contains small sample sizes.

In my adult life, I have owned two laptops. Both were bought brand new, both were relatively high end machines that cost more than $1000 each, plus accessories and the maximum extended warranties they offered. Both lasted 8+ years in service. The second one (a 2014 Dell Inspiron) is still in service, though I need to upgrade the OS on it.

Both machines required warranty service fairly early in their lives(the Dell egregiously so; very long story very short, they sold me a lemon and after replacing practically everything in it at least once they eventually replaced the machine outright) and received repairs/upgrades around the 4 year mark. The Gateway got its fan cleaned and the RAM replaced/upgraded from 1 to 2 GB. It also required frequent adjustment to its display hinge. It was running okay if slow by the end of it; a Centrino Duo running Vista was kind of sluggish in 2014. The monitor died in a way I couldn’t fix, and replacements were unobtainable, so that’s what finally did it in. The Dell got a fan replaced, the battery replaced, and the HDD replaced/upgraded to a SATA SSD. It is still running its originally installed 16GB of DDR3 RAM. It’s slightly sluggish running Windows, but feels very responsive running Linux. I intend to keep it in service until Linux Mint doesn’t support it or something breaks that I can’t fix.

On both machines, the I/O didn’t age particularly gracefully. The Gateway only had a VGA connector well into the era of HDMI and DisplayPort, the Dell has USB 3.0 and no USB-C connectors, no Ethernet and a proprietary barrel jack charger.

Both machines showed scuffs and scratches by year 8 but the chassis held up and were/are still serviceable.

Given my history with laptops, I see a Framework as pretty much the same “investment” that my Gateway and Dell were. I would not anticipate upgrading the mainboard; I don’t think they’ll keep making mainboards compatible with the current issue chassis a decade from now, and the chassis will probably be ready for a replacement by then anyway. But, I anticipate replacing the battery, SSD and probably a fan or two at the 4 or 5 year mark, likely out of warranty, and it looks like Framework would be above average for that.

My next laptop is likely to be a Framework simply because they’re one of the few companies that A. still exists and B. hasn’t pissed me off yet.

moitoi,

For me the deal breaker is to wait for so long before getting it. They have to step up the production. I’m fine with waiting for one month and can understand. But, the actual waiting time is ridiculous.

Chinzon,

I suppose that depends on how urgently you need a new computer. I waited several weeks for one of the first releases, but have been using it the last two years and it has been well worth it. I accidentally smashed the case when it slipped out of my bag on concrete and was thankful I got a framework when I was just able to swap it with a new shell of their marketplace within a week

Kindness,

Hi. Let’s set the table here. Context: What future advantage or benefit do you expect to get by investing?

  • Your budget was initially $500.
  • The absolute cheapest you can have a brand-new complete Frame Work 16 is $1,621 and 5 to 8 months (Ships Q2) assuming you get the cheapest of everything and don’t purchase secondary storage. You will have a low-end laptop with the ability to trivially upgrade it later.

For an additional $1,100 what do you expect to gain? In reality you can get an equivalent performance for $200, so the question then becomes $1,300 for what?

For $2,187 you can have an equivalent to this $1,100 ThinkPad that will likely last you 7-10 years unless it breaks first. What are you investing in for $1,087?

For $2,734 and ~8 months, I can have a high-end laptop, not the most expensive options, but my personal preference to tide me over for 10 years. Is whatever I’m looking for worth $2,200? Possibly.

  • For hardware I can have schematics to, after signing an NDA.
  • For hackability.
  • For a laptop I won’t void the warranty for fixing.
  • For never having to remove 17 screw, 5 stickers, 5 more screws, an excessive amount of plastic tabs, and possibly adhesive.
  • For almost indefinite access to parts. Parts that won’t disappear from the market in 1-3 years, unless the company goes under. (Yay Cali for the 7 years of parts… we’ll see how toothy it is and how long it can withstand legal and technical sabotage. Like Apple’s software locks.)
  • For a laptop with parts I like. (AMD open-sourcing like mad-lads, but not quite FLOSSing.)
  • For a company that I can trust for a decade before they see the dollar dollar bills. Like Google, Facebook, Reddit, etc.
  • For sustainably sourced parts.
  • To support a company that won’t put me through a hoop circus just to tell me I have to buy a new product because they screwed up?

If I could get it in 30 days, maybe. If I have to wait a financial quarter, or 2, and a half… maybe I’ll wait until they ramp up production, and see what innovations they have in a year. (Related: The week I decided to buy, was legitimately the day they opened for Framework 16 orders, which I would’ve sworn was Framework 15. Must be losing my mind. In any case, maybe I’ll still get the 13 and save $500.)

Is it worth it for you? Depends on your financial situation and what you value.

jackpot,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

apple software locks?

kilgore_trout,

Some parts are now signed and can be associated to the device by Apple alone, so that third-party repair parts or even replaced official parts don’t work if the repair is not done by Apple.

jackpot,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

oh god thats fucking evil, i thought uou meant some proproetary screw or some shit

ursakhiin,

They’ve done that one too. The software locks are just the most recent iteration.

cambriakilgannon,

I’m an Offical Apple phone repair tech. A lot of things stop working once you place new parts in, things that have even thrown me for a loop and made me think I did the repair wrong. I replaced a display, and the vibration and camera stopped working properly. I thought I damaged the haptic feedback motor (That I didn’t even remove) You have to sign into apple’s repair website, and ‘run a diagnostic’ in order to get the vibration function to work again after you swap a part on some models. They all do some weird shit.

Sometimes swapping a camera on a model will cause the camera in app to run at like 3 fps or Face ID will stop working until you validate the parts on their repair site. It’s shit.

festus,

To be honest you probably won’t save money as you’ll be more likely to upgrade regularly. I bought my Framework 13-inch last year and already bought a gorgeous new matte screen for it, and I’d been eyeing upgrading the mainboard with the new AMD one now. In the past with laptops I’d hold onto them for years until they couldn’t perform, and now I’m considering upgrading my device a second time within only a year?

I really do love my Framework, but the easier upgradability makes upgrading more likely, which means more expenses - unless you can restrain from upgrading more often than you would on a laptop. Since budget seems to be a concern for you this may be worth keeping in mind. On the other hand though, I’d be concerned about how long a $500 laptop will last you anyway (the ones I used for years were more like $1200).

One final thing - some parts can’t necessarily be carried over when upgrading to a new generation. For example, to upgrade to the AMD mainboard I’ll also have to buy new RAM as the generation upgraded to a newer variant. If I want to use my old mainboard as a home server, I’ll also have to purchase replacement parts for what it loses in the upgrade (new hard drive, new expansion ports, cheap case). It’s great if you had an existing need for a home server, not so much if you didn’t. Since I hate throwing out electronics I’ll end up buying more to keep it operational, even though in practice I won’t use it very much.

TL;dr - Framework makes upgrading and reuse cheaper and easier, which if you’re like me makes you spend more money and upgrade more frequently.

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