I was born and raised feminine but when I read about sealioning or mansplaining I both know what they're talking about, and also feel like these things can be indistinguishable from coming from a genuine friendly place and I'm hoping someone who is better at words than me can explain why I feel like this is connected to autism.
@bike@actuallyautistic i have mixed feelings about this, because i have been on the receiving end of some of these types and it's really unpleasant. but i've also behaved in a "reply guy" way sometimes, showing up in a conversation uninvited and giving unwanted information/opinions/advice.
while it's helpful to see the rules regarding what not to do written out explicitly with accompanying examples, it's also intimidating. the rules make it sound like it's easy not to be a reply guy, but i don't feel like i can make that determination confidently. so that's one of the reasons i say rather little in public on my main account. it's frustrating because i want to talk about my experiences too, but i don't feel confident enough with the social rules to engage on such a topic.
@miaoue@actuallyautistic There's this concept called "move up move up" (used to be called "step up step back" but move up move up doesn't require stepping and so is more inclusive, and I forget what up/up is about, anyway step up step back is easier to search for), here is an example article: https://www.meetingintentions.com/post/step-up-step-back , it is vague but the general idea is if you know you say a lot, give someone else a turn and if you don't, go for it
@actuallyautistic For another example, take the gaslighter aka manecdotes. Asking for more details is conflated with "he's already decided to ignore your response" but if I ask for more details it's because I am detail-oriented and does not mean I'm not going to be supportive.
@bike@actuallyautistic pretty sure it is connected. So many people are on the spectrum but are completely oblivious/unaware and many deny it because of associated or conflated mental illness stigma. 1/2
@bike@actuallyautistic Compounding it is the expectation that men know everything and are expected to explain anything to anyone, whether or not they know anything at all about the subject, which is often encouraged, even when adults are doing so sarcastically, in boys at a very early age, while girls more often get shut down. 2/2 fin (I'll shut up now.)
@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic I started second guessing myself. Like what if this is me andirons realise? This is social media, i thought that we are MEANT to interact with random posts. It's a RULE. But then just see that stuff and wonder if I did say something im not supposed to and maybe I should stfu and go back to lurking.
@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic and okay, gender and mansplaining. Does being a woman really exonerate me? What if the substance of what I a, saying is the same?
@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic maybe the quantity is the distinguishing feature? Like one post is validating, a hundred is overwhelming. And there is a gender bias on this platform.
In my experience, womansplaining is rarer, but it definitely happens occasionally. (I recently had three women piling in to explain that I'd misunderstood my own gender-specific experience as a man.)
My default assumption is that it's meant kindly, and I take it in good grace. I'd rather be told something I already know than miss out on information that might help me.
@markusl@marytzu@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic I also tend to take it in good stride when someone jumps in to correct me, but I’m wary of doing it to others without asking if they’d like me to first because I’ve seen what the flood looks like for some people.
At most I get like 3, but friends of mine have gone weeks getting 3 a minute and… it drained the life out of them.
I find Mastodon's 500-character limit doesn't leave space for nuance, complexity or uncertainty. That increases the probability of unnecessary corrections. If I ever changed instances, it would be for a higher character count.
True. If I think they're not correct, I explain my reasoning and see if we can reach agreement. If they're malicious, I block without remorse. No one owes headspace to trolls.
Or worse, thousands of people who are all correct, all saying the same thing because no-one reads replies first, and who all expect you to respond and thank them and will turn vicious if you don’t.
That is the common experience of this kind of thing.
@markusl@marytzu@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic if you want to see some cringe, go find a viral comedy post and scroll the replies watching small variations on the same joke response for daaaaaays ;)
@markusl@marytzu@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic most do, it’s more about them being a good example of watching people responding at scale without really thinking about adding to the conversation, or being weird about it accidentally or deliberately, and it turning into a MASSIVE pit
@markusl@marytzu@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic thankfully, me neither. Worst I’ve had is a conversation keep going off one of ny posts long after I no longer cared and the occasional seemingly deliberate misreading of a comment, but those are small fry problems to when you get hit with SCALE
I've fallen fowl of this myself. The enforced brevity of the 500 character limit means that sometimes a point i've tried to make to support a poster has come across wrong or at worst passive aggressive or sarcastic.
These (thankfully) rare issues ruin my day as I fret about upsetting someone and i feel terrible. but recently found out apologising too much is just as bad and I don't know the protocols now. it's a minefield.
@markusl@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic disagree. Don't have the time to go through it right now, but... every woman lives in a man's world. The reverse is not true.There are gendered phenomenon that we observe and are forced to understand. If we do not understand, then very, very bad things happen to us.
@markusl@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic this might be controversial but I actually loved that thread. Was really heartening to see women "win" an argument about this stuff on a male dominated platform for once. And yeah nuanced and good reasoning too. Minimal ad hominem
That's an interesting perspective. The women certainly outnumbered me; in that sense, they won. But they didn't understand the male experience (and I failed to convince them of it), and a lot of what they said was factually wrong. In that sense, no one won, because no one learnt anything.
@markusl@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic regardless... men did not succeed in talking over women for once. I call that a win. You weren't convinced, but at least one woman saw that thread and felt inspired.
Better than what usually happens which is to feel fucking hopeless.
@marytzu His main point, as I remember it, was that talking testosterone doesn't turn trans man into rapists. He didn't need to convince me: I already agreed with him.
I have now skimmed that thread. It's big enough that it's probably one of those "choose your own adventure" mastodon threads and I definitely didn't find all the threads of the conversation.
It seems like your main point is 'men have a higher sex drive than women'.
Did you know that what are clinically called hyposexuality and hypersexuality are both associated with neurodivergences such as autism and ADHD?
Anyway I am reminded of the whole "women seem to not have a sex drive because feeling alone about the second shift kills it" thing.
I was looking at the wikipedia page on the topic because I'm not convinced you can generalize about the sex drives of men any more than I can generalize my experience to the sex drives of all women. It's here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_hormones_on_sexual_motivation and what I learned is that nobody seems to be doing research on 2/
I also know that feeling when I've read many things on the topic, listened to countless stories, and I know what I'm talking about but I don't have the right citations to back it up (and sometimes it turns out I'm wrong anyway) and it's frustrating.
Even though I can't agree with you because I'm not seeing enough evidence and it runs counter to my personal experience, I thought you'd like to know that.
@bike@markusl@marytzu@homelessjun@actuallyautistic Oh, look at my surprised face. Nobody apparently noticed till recently that most medical/pharmaceutical research is conducted by, on and for men and thus results in medication that is often unsuitable, ineffective or downright harmful to, er, people who are not men.
Agreed. Clearly, this doesn't apply to all men. Some men's sex drive is stronger than others. A given man's sex drive is stronger at some times than at others. Some men experience no sexual desire at all.
@independentpen@bike@markusl@homelessjun@actuallyautistic also markus, earlier you stated you were not aware of female Incels. The female homology to pick up artist community is female dating strategy. For incels it's femcels. You used to be able to find both in reddit (they are probably still there, not sure). Femcels are mostly black women.
It's almost farcical seeing femcels and incels interact. The femcels get hit on... until pics are traded then the femcel is ghosted.
Not exactly. I've never been a woman, so I won't mansplain the female sex drive. My point is that some men's sex drive is so strong that sexual frustration can be seriously destructive.
For the benefit of anyone who doesn't read the other thread: this places no obligation on women and provides no excuses to men. Sexual assault and other forms of coercion are unforgivable.
Yes, I've read (recently) about neurodivergence and sex drive.
Iirc he talked about male privilege; how he was sexually assaulted before transitioning (presenting as a woman) but after transitioning (presenting as a man) he was never treated that way again etc etc
@marytzu@bike@actuallyautistic IMO, women can be raised as mansplainers as well. It is less common given how women are typically raised to defer to men.
@marytzu@bike@actuallyautistic If you are second-guessing yourself, it could very well be a sign that you are not mansplaining, but instead are infodumping. Most likely, actually.
And, yes, pretty sure that social media is supposed to be interactive. If it weren't, it would just be similar to newspapers and stuff.
@marytzu@homelessjun@bike@actuallyautistic
Many times I hit the reply button and start writing a comment / response and then worry if I'm adding to or diverting the topic, so delete and cancel.
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