How realistic is Star Trek’s Tamarian language? - Darmok and Jalad

I thought this video was absolutely fascinating throughout, even the ad.

The main thrust of it is about how natural Earth languages make use of idiom and metaphor frequently, and how Tamarian is subtly different from this. But we do also make use of a similar direct literary allusion, to different degrees in different languages. Mandarin has a number of examples, but we can also point to “crossing the Rubicon” as an example in English.

More recently, the use of memes has taken on a very Tamarian-like role.

wheeldawg,

This was always my favorite episode of the series, just due to the novel concept of communication. Upon a rewatch years later, I realized the episode was just ahead of its time. I mean we always had phrases like this, but with the huge rise of memes in the last 20 years the amount of phrases like this has grown exponentially.

Nmyownworld,
@Nmyownworld@startrek.website avatar

When I first saw this episode of TNG, I thought that such a language was impossible. Without even thinking about how often I hear and use phrases that likely make zero sense to someone who doesn’t know the same context as myself. Like dealing with someone who lies all too often, “they are the boy who cried wolf” gets used. Meaning, one of these days they are going to tell the truth but no one will believe them. Or saying, “we need to touch base” to someone who isn’t familiar with baseball. Sometimes I understand the meaning of a phrase, like “the proof is in the pudding,” without knowing what that phrase originally meant. I still wonder what pudding? every time I hear it. So, yes. I can believe the Tamarian language. Because context is important.

I don’t think the Tamarian language as a whole is represented in the episode. I can’t imagine “Temba, his arms wide”-ing a way to warp capabilities. I think of the Tamarian language shown as a universal shorthand for the Tamarians. Like their society has different languages, but the Tamarian we hear is the common language. That Tamarians specializing in a field of study have their own words and phrases, much like on Earth of today. For example, if I listen to a lecture on biochemistry, I wouldn’t understand most of it because I don’t speak (understand) biochemistry. I have no context.

I think the Tamarian language is fascinating, and possible.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

I can’t imagine “Temba, his arms wide”-ing a way to warp capabilities.

There’s a fan theory that they use a distinct music-based writing system for math and technology.

Nmyownworld,
@Nmyownworld@startrek.website avatar

That sounds interesting. Do you have a link to that discussion? I don’t know anything about music theory, but connecting it to the Tamarian language could be a fascinating read.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

I don’t remember where, probably a post on /r/daystrominstitute

Nmyownworld,
@Nmyownworld@startrek.website avatar

I’ll take a look-see. Thanks for the heads up.

charonn0,
@charonn0@startrek.website avatar

OK, I found the post from daytrom I remembered, which said the idea came from a beta canon story. So I checked the Memory-Beta page for the Tamarians and it says the idea comes from a short story called https://christopherlbennett.wordpress.com/home-page/star-trek-fiction/star-trek-short-fiction/friends-with-the-sparrows-annotations/. I haven’t been able to find a copy of it online, though.

Nmyownworld,
@Nmyownworld@startrek.website avatar

Thanks for finding these. I’ll check them out.

JWBananas,
@JWBananas@kbin.social avatar

Like dealing with someone who lies all too often, “they are the boy who cried wolf” gets used. Meaning, one of these days they are going to tell the truth but no one will believe them.

Or, you know, that you should never tell the same lie twice.

Senex,
@Senex@reddthat.com avatar

There was an episode of The Magicians where Elliot and Margot used this to communicate while being spied upon. I immediately thought of this episode of Star Trek.

micheleann,
@micheleann@eldritch.cafe avatar

@Senex @Zagorath These are two of my very favorite episodes of anything!

AzPsycho,

I remember that. The Magicians was wild and I loved it.

Senex,
@Senex@reddthat.com avatar

The Magicians were one of those books where I hated most of the main characters but loved the series. The TV series was great even though they deviated from the books.

JungleJim,

The thing that confuses me about this wonderful concept is how did the Tamarians ever get to the point of building wooden ships if they only spoke in meme and metaphor? How could they have created a culture that speaks only in references if their references couldn’t happen without culture existing to make note of the referenced events?

Zagorath,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

I saw an amazing post on the alien site a while ago—I think it was in Daystrom, but I’m not sure—that suggested the Tamarians may have 2 or 3 different “modes” of speaking. This would explain both how their language’s function words exist and how children might acquire language.

Madison420,

I think this probably happened the other way round. They had a separate more traditional language until they struck out and discovered other civilizations that spoke other languages. An allegorical language that can be modified with context under observation would actually be a fairly good way to relate and then exchange languages using tamarian as sort of a Rosetta stone.

frankPodmore,
@frankPodmore@slrpnk.net avatar

I assume that they didn’t always speak that way, but as their language evolved it became gradually more dense with allusions, until they took over entirely.

atlasraven31,

Kermit, his head nodding in agreement

Taleya,

Bale, cut in counterpoint

Zagorath,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Ooh, I found the post in question:

web.archive.org/…/explaining_tng_darmok_what_if_t…

atlasraven31,

Maybe they have a less flowery and a purely functional language for those situations.

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