KaCi,
@KaCi@autistics.life avatar

The discussion about the hashtag is really annoying. It's the hashtag for Autistic people either self-indentified or officially diagnosed and if your research about the Autistic community didn't provide you this knowledge, then maybe you should do more research or ask the community before you start complaining. Who are you to criticise a hashtag that connected and empowered thousands of marginalized disabled people for years? (1/2)

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@KaCi

Let me see... how to describe in an empathetic and sensitive way how all this erupted.

For people wondering what this is about, this discussion began about a week or more ago, when an autistic person on mastodon (who said they were going through meltdowns online due to trauma and who was lashing out because of this), made a series critical posts and comments about "late diagnosed autistics" who were allegedly acting "superior" to "early diagnosed" (in terms of age), as if they were a dominating autistic spaces online.

It was much like accusing late diagnosed as acting similar to what some autistics say about "aspie supremacy" autistics. It was suggested or implied in the discussion that "early diagnosed" (in childhood) were more autistic or more representative of autistics than the late diagnosed who were said to dominate the tag.

It came up in these discussions that some of the "late diagnosed" are also self-diagnosed, and the discussion included some misconceptions about the purpose of the tag and whether it was inclusive of self-identified/self-assessed autistics. If I recall correctly there were also criticisms of autistic "identity" as a concept.

So just as a public service announcement I posted this on my own timeline:

https://neurodifferent.me/@obrerx/111030772799404421

Nowhere in my post did I suggest dumping the tag.

I provided a history so that people would understand how and why it arose as a tag.

But it did spark a huge discussion across mastodon about tags, and I think many didn't know or see how this discussion began.

@actuallyautistic
@allautistics
@neurodivergence

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

I did give complete details of what has happened in the past on Twitter which included some folks coming up with an alternative tag, . This is part of the history on twitter. It's information. It wasn't a suggestion that we should no longer use . I use the tag constantly.

I suggested that we need to constantly explain that the tag is inclusive.

tofulogie,
@tofulogie@det.social avatar

@obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic
@allautistics @neurodivergence

Thanks a lot for explaining, and also for the reference to the original announcement. Just want to let you know that this was extremely helpful for me, not only for understanding the reasons for the discussions I have been seeing recently, but also for my very own understanding of the hashtag. I also had no clue about the issues it caused. So, thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar
n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Stray, I think you have acted with maturity and integrity all through this, and I am grateful for the documentation.
I see you as one of our strongest voices.

The moment I saw this person lashing out at MY FRIENDS on , I blocked them.
I'm not as mature as you!

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@n69n @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

I don't know how mature I was, but thanks so much for saying what you did. I appreciate it.

I did kind of go off into reactive mode.

I wrote that big screed because of how it made me feel, for anyone who wants to see it.

https://neurodifferent.me/@obrerx/111032091433716299

willaful,
@willaful@romancelandia.club avatar

@n69n Was this the person who declared the hashtag now belonged to them?

@obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@willaful @n69n @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Sounds familiar but I don't recall now. I think so.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

I don't know what they wanted from us, but they basically told us we all suck!

fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

None of you have been part of a group that people think sucks? Right :ablobrollingeyes:
I know I haven't.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar
fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence
I don't have much of one. I'm just saying it seems par for the course.
We're all so used to not belonging that I couldn't hold my sarcasm in.
Sorry if it came out wrong.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@fictionalbutnot @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

If this person hadn't come out swinging & accusing, we could have had a good discussion and exchange.
But I'm not going to put up abuse, or my friends being abused, and it seems admins felt the same.

fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

I agree wholeheartedly. I very much prefer dialectic vs debate.
It was more intended as a "Really, they expect stuff like that to shut people up that are this used to it?"

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@fictionalbutnot @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence
This isn't twitter and I will do everything I can to protect us.

fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

I applaud that. I think we're on the same side here.
I'm not super familiar with twitter. I signed up less than 3 months before Musk took over.
Then I came here. I'm somewhat afraid of social media.
I'm just trying to put in my two cents because I normally wouldn't.
The problem is, if I stop to think too much I'll never post anything.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@fictionalbutnot @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Twitter is very combative, even more so now (though I left the day Musk took over).
This place is NOT combative, but collaborative, and I will do my part to keep it that way!

fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Sounds good. I just hope people will continue to give me the chance to explain the stupid things I say.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar
fictionalbutnot,
@fictionalbutnot@mas.to avatar

@n69n @willaful @obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

And I'm very happy about that. Thank you.
My short experience in twitter was being ignored or combative, so I'll take your word for it.

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@fictionalbutnot @n69n @willaful @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Twitter can be a horror. For a lot of different reasons. It was combative, yes, and often toxic because of that. But it was also very top-down, dominated by mostly huge accounts, with most users living in the shadows of those large accounts (if you ask me) and it was this way even before Musk, but now much worse because of his changes. It's become dominated by hate-speech. It's awful.

dcrooks,
@dcrooks@mastodon.scot avatar

@obrerx @fictionalbutnot @n69n @willaful @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence If I could add to this, I was really struck when I went on Threads after being here, and was like “ah the brands and celebs are back!” and left again

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@dcrooks @fictionalbutnot @n69n @willaful @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Yes, as I see it, the structure itself is designed to accommodate and enable the large accounts, and it wants and needs those accounts to have the most impact and influence. It's all part of the planned structure. It's built-in. A feature, not a bug.

marytzu,
@marytzu@mastodon.social avatar
obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@n69n @fictionalbutnot @willaful @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Right, for anyone who doesn't know, admin of neurodifferent.me has hidden that account for the moment. I think they can read posts, just that the replies aren't seen?

anomalon,

@obrerx @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Yes however, let's not conflate fayedray with cathat.

Cathat is the one who has been frequenting the tag with Aspie and late/early dx stuff.

Fayedray is the one who expressed that something was "disturbing", got immediately jumped, and went Kill Bill on the crowd.

Different people.

obrerx,
@obrerx@neurodifferent.me avatar

@anomalon @KaCi @actuallyautistic @allautistics @neurodivergence

Yes, there were others in those discussions. I did try to convey that a discussion involving several people ensued, that it was more than just one person.

I can experience hyper-empathy, so I feel badly that someone was hurting and lashing out, and was joined by others in some of the things that were said. I didn't want to hit back... I just wanted to inform people. Hard to do.

n69n,
@n69n@neurodifferent.me avatar

@KaCi

I love and have been helped by the hashtag.

I'm not giving it up.

jrdepriest,
@jrdepriest@infosec.exchange avatar

@n69n @KaCi
I cannot overstate how helpful had been for me. It has been life changing.
@actuallyautistic

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