Everyone know saying Tiananmen Square on Western platform make you a true freedom of speech based brave whistleblower chad that risk his life for liberty.
I’ve never doubted the Tiananmen Square massacre before, but there are so many posts lately insisting it happened I’m starting to think maybe it didn’t
I’ve never doubted the holocaust before, but there are so many museums and everyone insists it happened so I’m starting to think hitler did nothing wrong.
Evidence that something didn’t happen? Shouldn’t that be the other way around?
I’ve seen evidence of a handful of deaths in the square, a dozen or so armed men who fired on tanks at the entrance routes to the city, and a half-dozen soldiers were lynched.
The British cable that talked of tanks running over bodies until they were mush and washed down the drain was fantastical nonsense and proof that many westerners will believe anything as long as it’s negative of China.
What you wrote appears to be skepticism that it was a massacre. What I provided was photos of a massacre. I’m not sure why you think that’s consistent.
I provided skepticism of the British cable (which forms many westerners conception of what happened) that talks of thousands of corpses which needed to be ran over with tanks and washed down the drain in order to hide, which did not happen.
I said a handful of deaths occurred in the square, and the evidence you’ve shown confirms that. The most gruesome photos are of the same unfortunate soul who appears to have fallen off a wheeled vehicle.
One simple dispute I know that doesn’t question the violence is where the violence took place. Western journalists stationed in the square reported hearing sporadic gunfire, the majority of the violence that happened took place in western Beijing and side streets. The pictures with dead that are shared aren’t located in the square, however that is the way its portrayed in Western media. One can accept this inaccuracy while not being a denier.
I didn’t expect this thread to go serious. It’s a shitpost community after all. But after seeing these pictures again I kinda feel like a jackass for what I posted.
Sure it makes fun of tankies and their warped perception of reality. But in the same time I feel like my comment also indirectly ridicules the victims of the massacre in some way? I don’t know how to feel about that.
Sorry didn’t quite get the question. But if I can bring something evidence and lack if evidence of Uighur genocide has been shared on Lemmy in ML communities, and I can guess also in other communist and leftist ones (surely on Hexbear). I’m not a ML myself but joined Lemmygrad to understand their point
Within real communist communities? No. Within revisionist communities absolutely.
Communists haven’t supported China since the death of Mao whenever Deng Xiaopeng and his ilk took power. You can read plenty of official statements by Peruvian, Indian, and Filipino communists parties (that have actually attempted/are attempting revolution) who denounce China as a revisionist social imperialist power in exactly the same way that China denounced the USSR following the revisionists rise to power.
Okay thanks, interesting. And where do lemmygrad and hexbear sit on that axis? I haven’t really thought about communism much since I was at uni in the late 90s and it was all triumphantly end of history type thinking. Suddenly arrive here and have hexbear and lemmygrad messages in my feed .
I’m not entirely sure because I don’t really frequent those instances. But if Reddit is any indication, the revisionist communities have a significantly larger presence online than anti-revisionist communists, which is unfortunate to say the least.
Lemmygrad and hexbear are extremist, primarily Marxist-Leninist communities which take a very narrow view of socialist philosophy and insist that this view represents the one true socialism, rejecting or even mocking basically all contemporary socialist thought which falls outside their bubble. Their knowledge of the topic actually ends up being pretty shallow, and they frequently cite philosophers who actually reject their autocratic preferences.
Basically they are “socialists” who have completely lost (or in many cases, never followed) the plot, and have reverted to a core philosophy of reactionary anti-west contrarianism. The term within the socialist community for this is “campist” but these people actually take that to an entirely different level of indecipherable discourse.
They were just residents of the city at the time, and obviously were aware of the massive protests but can also confirm second hand reports of violence and may have known people who died. They unambiguously expressed solidarity with the students, but you really need to press to get them to discuss it, and my Chinese is often insufficiently elegant for these topics. I actually tried to get them to make a video interview but they didn’t want to. They are in the process of getting US residency and I think they might be more open to the idea once they are fully moved over.
They are definitely well aware of the censorship surrounding the issue though. They stop short of speculation about what actually happened but they will tell you that the Chinese media did not report the situation accurately starting in the weeks prior. When I asked if western media reported it more accurately they responded in dialect or idiom I didn’t quite understand. Possibly some version of “how the fuck should I know?”
That’s about the extent of that interaction. I have gotten them to discuss politics on a few occasions. I think more than anything the person in question just kind of wants to be heard and tell their story, but has real fears about doing so.
Nothing happened on Tian’anmen Square on June 4th 1989.
Absolutely nothing.
If something happened, it was scary CIA man. I have sources for that.
You are stupid for not believing me.
Someone in the west did something similar. So it is good.
I am very intelligent.
Edit: To make one thing clear. On June 89 at least 300 innocent students go massacred by the military and thousands got injured. These are estimates, because the Chinese government does its best to suppress any investigation or discussion on the topic to this day. If you actually think this is fabricated, you can eat my ass.
I argued with a guy one time who was denying tienanmann square happened. Turns out after a bit of back and forth his reasoning for reaching this conclusion that “nothing happened there” was “it wasn’t at tienanmann square, it was a bit down the street from there.”
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