Balancing a boss fight for an Eloquence Bard!

Durugai, 1 year ago

The Bard player still has to say the right things in the first place to make the check at all, there is not guarantee they will do that. But if they do... LET THEM this is literally their characters big thing! Why not let them do that specific thing? It feels backwards to me to have a "Well this fight has a conversation skill option but I am not going to let the character that has conversation skills participate".

IMO the rolls are not the interesting part of this, the party figuring out how they can get bad the guy to change their mind is.

phrankygee, 1 year ago

So I just went and checked out the specifics of this battle, and the key phrase is “speak with empathy and compassion”. If the player doesn’t approach the character in question with actual “empathy and compassion”, then they don’t get to make the persuasion check.

If your party actually figures out that someone needs to talk to this guy, and HOW they need to talk to him, then it’s perfectly fine that they automatically succeed on the roll, as long as they let the most eloquent person in the group do the talking.

I imagine most parties will go into default “boss battle” mode and not try diplomacy at all. If you want a party to stop shooting, smiting, and casting, and instead start talking about feelings, in the middle of a boss fight, that’s going to probably take some pretty big hints by you that it’s even a possibility. If they figure it out, then they deserve to win that way.

Ellie_The_Nurse, 1 year ago

I dont understand the Min Roll 10 comment.

Other than that, this seems like a chance for your bard to shine! Perhaps they should get the limelight for this one? I’d adjust the DCs with the bard in mind but maybe play up the fact they can only try this because the rest of the party is doing their job in the fight by beating the boss down, etc. ?

phrankygee, 1 year ago

Eloquence Bards get to treat any roll on certain charisma skills as a 10, whenever they roll less than a 10. So with expertise and high charisma they can guarantee a roll of 22 or higher in those skills related to eloquent speech.

Usually the DM can set difficulties or even decide if a roll is called for at all, but this module has a chance for diplomacy, and the corresponding DC baked in.

I agree, though, that the correct answer is “Let the eloquence bard do their thing!” The chance to talk the boss down comes in “phases” for a reason. As long as you still have to survive Phase 1 and Phase 2 before you can suggest surrender in Phase 3, you’ll still have an interesting encounter.

And there is always the possibility that by Phase 3, your bard player won’t even think about using diplomacy once the fighting has already been going for a bit.