> The cause of Hitler was economics post WW1, which was clearly an absolute cluster fuck whichever way you spin it.
Yea, and? Doesnt change the fact that a lack of guns caused him to have a much easier time with all that he did
> What if Hitler came to power and it was predominantly his supporters who had the guns?
Thats why its so improtant to teach our kids that being a responsible adult includes being a gun owner, to ensure we dont have those sort of divides. The government is just a bunch of rules if the people arent in line with it.
> "I like guns' is as compelling argument as any, 'protection from tyranny' doesn't add up.
You have made no case to that end.. I mean your one argument was "there are bad people in govt".. yet Hitler was a pretty obvious counter argument to that and then your goal post moved to "Oh well give it time"... The truth is, while your right only time will tell, all the evidence so far suggests it has been an effective preventative against a hitler, and it doesnt take much common sense on top of the evidence to understand why a gun would be a deterrent to such things.
My guess is you are more intentionally blind to the narrative because your trying desperately to justify a bias rather than view the situation objectively. Not that your alone in that, we are all biased, but your logic just doesnt line up with the reality.
> It's impossible to say about Hitler, we can't re-run history.
you were the one who used the quality of politicians to back up your claim tht the argument was nonsense... It was "impossible" to say then too, but that didnt stop you. But now that you have a counter example of the same kind only now its "impossible to say"... thats the bias I am talking about.
Like I get it, I agree its hard to say for sure... but you did, and you were ok with that only so far as you thought it supported your point of view. Now that its clear the line of argument doesnt support it now its an issue?
> Back to the point, the US government, over and over, does horrible shit and there's been no uprising against it.
Right, as I addressed guns are not, and should not, be used to start murdering people every time the government does "horrible shit".. Its meant as a last-resort, its meant for the hitlers, not Bushes/Bidens of the world
> Why hasn't New Zealand had a Hitler?
Because New Zealand allows guns? In fact up to 2019 they had access to a pretty decent range of guns. Things got much stricter after 2019, but we spent a lot of that time in quarintine... so not much time for a Hitler to even rise to power, not to mention they still have access to guns (albeit far more restricted) so hardly the best example.
@freemo And New Zealand bought in additional controls after a mass shooting…
It’s an emotive subject which I typically don’t involve myself in but the meme you shared I found totally unconvincing (I know, it’s just a meme) from an outside perspective, the gun thing in the US is mad, given how many kids, innocent people etc. get shot.
I’m not the one to change anyone’s mind on the subject. I don’t have any skin in this horse.
And New Zealand bought in additional controls after a mass shooting…
They certainly did respond to a shooting by making people less safe under the guise of
It’s an emotive subject which I typically don’t involve myself in but the meme you shared I found totally unconvincing (I know, it’s just a meme) from an outside perspective safety… and yes thats a different tangent.
What meme? As far as I can see you started this post not me, and I never posted a meme.
the gun thing in the US is mad, given how many kids, innocent people etc. get shot.
Why would the very thing protecting the lives of the kids and reducing the number being shot be madening? Yes there is aviolence issue int he USA that needs addressing… As I’ve laid out with statistics many many times before, when you ban kids MORE people die, in huge numbers, with little or no benefit. So yes its madening when people say “Why dont you address the violence issue int he USA by taking away peoples ability to defend themselves, who cares that the statistics show it will actually cause hundreds of thousands to die”
@freemo you seem to be under a misapprehension. It has never been legal in New Zealand to own a gun for self defence.
Any hint that you want a gun for that, you would lose your gun license. We have an average level of gun ownership by OECD standards but they are used as tools, not weapons.
New Zealand has only had one school shooting in history, and it was in 1923.
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