@juergen_hubert@germany@folklore Thanks - I should rephrase to be more precise. Are these spleenwort associated with local entities/spirits that have supernatural powers? I ask on the basis of local beliefs in SE Asia where plants and natural features often have their own spirits which can be protective, malevolent or neutral to humans.
In German folklore, spirits are rarely tied with specific plants like this. There are some "forest spirits" like the Thuringian "moss women", but they are not tied to any particular type of vegetation.
@Ellirahim@juergen_hubert@germany@folklore
I suspect not. True for Asia, and also Greek & Roman "nymphs" (Dryads) can be associated with particular trees, but I've never seen a similar association in Celtic, Norse and Germanic stories.
Celtic traditions seem to associate entities with in habiting particular mountains, ancient megalithic sites/tombs, rivers and wells. Not just Insular Celts, but mainland Europe too as far as Northern Turkey.
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore You'll be delighted or terrified to know that even in this day and age many people in SE Asia refuse to plant Banana plants near their homes due to the spirit associated with them.
The Thais call her Nang Tani, Malaysians call her Hantu Pokok Pisang while Indonesians and Cambodians call the spirit by different names - we all agree that it is a female and often malevolent spirit.
German folklore does have some "grain spirits", such as the "rye mother" and the "rye wolf". They mostly serve to terrorize children so that they won't go into ripe grain fields and thus damage the crops.
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore In elementary school in Malaysia - as late as the 1970s - there were mentions in our textbooks of Rice Spirits (Semangat Padi) which were bound to the fields where the crop grew. Back then rice was grown only 1x or 2x a year instead of three plantings per year the way it is today. The main lesson behind the story was that the spirit needed to "rest" and farmers shouldn't overplant/harvest.
There's little of that in German folklore - the biblical command to "subjugate the earth" tends to override environmental concerns in the tales.
Though there is a tale where you are supposed to leave a corner of the field alone during the harvest time, in order to appease a certain group of angry, hungry spirits. I couldn't help but wondering if this was a remnant of older beliefs about spirit worship.
Sometimes the "wisdom" is a little dubious. The folklore of the European alps holds that the upper ranges of the mountains were once fertile meadows, but got covered by ice due to "the sins of humans".
Considering that those same glaciers are now rapidly melting away because of the "sins of humans", I find this deeply ironic.
a brief google shows that the laws and prices of rice in Malaysia, like almost all agriculture around the world, are so FUBARED as to be unbelievalbe; a tiny group of people (farmers) holds everyone else hostage
@failedLyndonLaRouchite@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore Let me correct you there - it's not the farmers holding the people hostage. It's outdated agriculture regulations and subsidies that desperately need reform so farmers don't lose money trying planting a staple crop.
well, I don't really know anything about Malaysia, but if it is anything like the US, it is the farmers
the family farm is obsolete and needs to go; the farmers need to give up farming and do something else
this may sound harsh, but it is true
of course, since the birth of the industrial revolution in England in the mid 1700s, we have never provided for obsolete workers, so there is that
We should not assume that Malaysia "is anything like the US".
Heck, even Germany is not "anything like the US", despite a lot of common cultural heritage and immigration. How much more different must Malaysia be?
What is and what is not wrong with Malaysia is an analysis best done by the locals. We from other parts of the world might listen in, but we should really stop telling them what to do or not to do.
I for one can't wait for Americans (or, earlier, Brits) to tell me how things should be done here. This is something that has never, ever gone wrong in history.
@zdl@juergen_hubert@Ellirahim@raymccarthy@germany@folklore
sure, whatever guys
iirc, in the 1980s, the US wanted to sell rice in Japan; US agri biz rice is MUCH cheaper then local farmer Japanese rice and I'm sure 99% of hte japanese public would have loved cheaper rice
but the farmers bought off the politicians and one senior minister said japanese couldn't eat American rice cause japanese had shorter intestines that couldnt digest American rice
And you know what? We should absolutely listen to them. Because the USA, run entirely by American white boys, isn't even slightly a tire fire about to set off a cache of TNT!
His whole "Fireside Fairytales" playlist is worth checking out, and I'm not just saying that because he has read a bunch of my translations as of late. 😁
Germany does have very few native animals that are actually dangerous to humans - and the few that posed a threat (bears and wolves) were hunted to extinction. Not that folklore didn't exaggerate the danger posed by them...
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore@rorystarr As a South Korean colleague of mine observed when she went camping in our nearby forest recently - There's a big difference camping here than in Europe or North Asia - the wildlife there don't generally see you as a potential meal. Here, campers are free food delivery.
@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore@rorystarr The worst we got was grandmothers telling us - if you don't finish your rice you'll hear the rice crying tonight outside your window. Another favourite is every grain of wasted rice will be a blemish on the face of your future husband or wife. Believe me, no wasted food after that.
In German folklore, the most common punishment for disrespecting bread was petrification. More extreme cases involved entire cities or kingdoms brought to ruin from supernatural disasters.
Admittedly, German folk tales had some really inventive way of disrespecting bread. This ranged from using bread as a substitute wagon wheel, to using it as shoes, to using breadrolls as buttwipes and even (if I am interpreting the tale correctly) wanking off into a cheese bread.
I remember hearing a story from Dungun about how a car that fell off a bridge could not be found until a shaman waded into the crocodile filled waters and appeased the local crocodile spirit.
@ubi@juergen_hubert@raymccarthy@germany@folklore@rorystarr I second that Ubi! Let's not forget the crocodile shamans in Sarawak who tracked down Bujang Senang (Easygoing Bachelor) the huge saltwater croc famous in the 90s that was terrorising the longhouses.
German folklore has a lot of ghosts, but they are mostly treated as hazardous waste which needs to be removed by experts (i.e. by binding them to a remote spot in the countryside which hopefully won't see urban development in the next few centuries).
There are also a lot of household and even shipboard spirits.
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