Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. Some of the greatest heroes of the war, including Lyudmila Pavlichenko were Ukrainian. And by heroes, I mean they killed a lot of fuckin fascists.
The context you’re missing is the existence of the holodomor.
They had been dominated and literally genocideded by Russia leading up to WWII.
ANYBODY who shows up to kick out the people who genocided you is going to look pretty attractive in that moment.
Asking a Ukrainian to side with Russian occupation in 1941 is like asking a Jewish person to agree be occupied by Germans in 1949. It’s a tough sell when the pain is that fresh.
Anyhow, I’m not saying anything about right or wrong, just the historical context. It’s hard to understand Ukraine without understanding the Holodomor.
Double genocide is a literal Nazi talking point created, ironically enough, a Canadian Nazi.
The Ukrainian famine wasn’t intentional (many parts of Europe and even other parts of the USSR suffered equal if not greater famines). This is agreed upon by any serious historian who studied the USSR after its dissolution and the archives were opened.
The Waffen SS and other Ukrainian fascists organisations literally carried out pogroms agains Jews, Roma and Polish people. So your comparison is really disgusting to be honest. The USSR and the Ukrainian Red Army liberated many minorities across Easter Europe from fascists and Nazis.
It’s absolutely a historical fact that the USSR and the Red Armies were the most directly responsible for the Nazi defeat in WW2, the liberation of Jews, Roma and other minorities. And honestly, saving the fucking world.
You can hate Stalin, but it’s just undeniable he was absolutely instrumental in defeating Hitler.
If you resent the role of the USSR during WW2, and “see why someone would join the Waffen SS to fight the Russian invaders”, all that tells me is that you are a fucking Nazi.
It’s literally, right this second, a Russian propeganda campaign to deny the Holodomor for the purposes of justifying their illegitimate claim on Ukraine.
And it’s amazing for them, because they get to beat the “If you believe in the Holodomor you are a Nazi” drum.
Denying any genocide is dispicable. The holocaust existed, it was a crime against humanity, and all parties responsible are war criminals of the highest order. The Holodomor existed, it was a crime against humanity and all parties responsible are war criminals of the highest order. Rwanda. Armenia. First Nations in Canada.
I know the world is a nuanced place, but in general, if you want to find the Nazi, find the person who can’t bring themselves to acknowledge a genocide
Ukrainians and other Slavic diaspora have just as much reason to want to see these memorials gone as have the Jewish groups outraged over the recent happening in Parliament.
These Slavic nazis were collaborators in the genocide of our own people. Their names should be synonymous with betrayal, not memorialized.
Yes please, let’s take down all the nazi commemorations in the country. All the racists. All the people who lived part of their lives trying to suppress and harm others.
Frankly, that’d probably get rid of every statue in the country except Terry Fox.
For a doctor in 1939, helping the Chinese during the Japanese invasion, hell yeah it was acceptable. Bethune is one of the greatest Canadians who ever lived, motherfucker.
Are these monuments linked to the group that didn’t do any actual Nazi shit according to the historian?
Like, I wasn’t 22me or Airborne while I was in the army, but I was in while they were doing some heinous hazing shit. Am I (more of) a dick because I was in the same organization that included those two units who were doing bad things at that time?
The comparison isn't "hazing is just as bad as genocide." The comparison is "simply being part of the same large organization as some people doing awful things doesn't make a person equally culpable." This is straightforward to understand.
SS was a volunteer unit. They only accepted the most devout and loyal. Those that were willing to do some of the most heinous depraved shit for Hitler.
If you chose to be a part of that, you deserve all the criticism that comes with it. Take offense all you want, I literally don’t fucking care.
The Waffen-SS had 900,000 people by the end of WWII and it included conscripts. Recruitment standards loosened significantly as the war progressed. After the war, the Nuremberg trials specifically exempted conscripts who had been forced into the SS and who had not committed war crimes from any criminal responsibility.
World War II was complicated, especially on the eastern front. Don't assume the "good guys" and "bad guys" were clearly delimited by a simple badge or insignia.
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