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blitzen ,

Apple products are without critique for sure. But if they last 2 or 3 times as long, are they all that anti-consumer? Compared to Windows, are they all that anti-privacy? I suggest you take another look, without your preconceived notions of Apple products.

wrath-sedan OP ,
@wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar

I am leaning towards a new MacBook for the reasons you stated among others. I came here to get some new perspectives, and to explore other options I might not be aware of yet.

bingbong ,

The only laptop i would recommend over a MacBook are frameworks, but I have no idea how durable they are. Just that they will last as long as replacement parts would be available.

blitzen ,

I think the problem is there is no grey area in opinions on Apple. Either they are perfect and pro-privacy and all good (not true), or they are anti-consumer, anti-privacy, anti-user pro-capitalist (again, mostly not true.) Truth is somewhere in between, and judging the product without one of those preconceived notions above is helpful.

For me, I could never use a laptop by another maker because the trackpad on non-Apple devices are (in my experience) absolute garbage.

NightAuthor ,

Trackpads have come a long way on windows laptops, one major thing to lookout for is “precision trackpad”, Microsoft has this new standard which actually brings their trackpads into the realm of apple. Though specific implementations can still vary a bit.

blitzen ,

Great to know, however I don’t ever see myself buying a Windows laptop. A superbly built laptop (and trackpad) running Linux is the grail.

NightAuthor ,

I’m about to give some good and bad:

Apple is horrid for repair, and has some serious shortcomings in design. Their newest laptops now have a not insignificant chance to self-destruct in a completely unrecoverable way.

But the performance is great, battery life is sublime, sleek and rigid case design. Plus the ecosystem perks of you own multiple apple devices.

But because of the design issues, you MUST put significant thought into which upgrades you buy bc you’ll never be able to change the configuration of your laptop. Make sure to have a solid backup strategy. And factor apple care plus into your pricing, bc it’s necessary with these devices. Only apple can fix 95% of problems with your laptop, and without apple are plus their repair pricing is insane. Even with apple care you may have to struggle significantly with them to get certain things covered. It’s just part of the game if you want to buy one of their devices.

LucyLastic ,

Do they last longer? I have an IPhone 3 somewhere that just decided to stop working, yet my HTC with Android 1.2 still works fine.

Most of what’s held me back from Apple products has been their planned obsolescence, where the OS was no longer supported, which I’ve never had with a PC. I’ve had my cheap second hand laptop for 7 years now and that still works fine with the latest software

DrManhattan ,

“Planned obsolescence”? Like where the iPhone 7 and on have received 6 to 7 years of software updates?

LucyLastic ,

I can’t use the iPhone 3 I have in a drawer, even though there’s nothing wrong with it. Meanwhile my HTC that runs Android 1.2 still works with Google maps just fine.

I was also pissed off when all the OSX software dropped support for single-core Intel processors which rendered some very expensive 2 year old machines at work useless for anything Mac-specific.

For context, my Dad is still using a PC I built out of parts recovered from a skip in 2008, and it works just fine.

DrManhattan ,

Well there was no such thing as the “iPhone 3”. There was the iPhone 3G or the iPhone 3GS, but no “iPhone 3”.

And this doesn’t prove anything lol an iPhone 3G can still connect to a 3G network and make calls and browse the internet.

LucyLastic ,

Yes, it’s a 3G. In black if minutiae matter to you.

It doesn’t have maps, and most websites are unsupported even though it’s far newer than the old Android phone.

DrManhattan ,

So you’re angry that a Google service doesn’t have longevity on an Apple product?

Your argument makes no sense. Who even cares if these ancient paperweights work? That’s not “planned obsolescence”, that’s just hardware and software getting old.

LucyLastic ,

Well, I went and looked it up and apparently since the iPhone 4 onwards Apple actually started to get their shit together and started supporting their hardware for more than 3 years … I do find it funny though that an unsupported iPhone can’t connect to the app store at all while even the evil Google’s old apps can still get live data without problems.

TheGayTramp ,
@TheGayTramp@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah saying Apple is anti-privacy is like… what? Compared to who? Apple is consistently fighting against meta and google (and governments) in favour of user privacy

wrath-sedan OP ,
@wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar

I think Apple is better out of the box than most other companies in terms of privacy, which comes from a lot more of their profit coming from hardware rather than data harvesting (ie Meta, Google). Although the EFF has said that’s more an indictment of other tech companies than saying Apple is particularly good.

I do think the lack of customization in macOS makes it more difficult to harden your security settings. PrivacyGuides lists their concerns along with their recommended configuration here.

TheGayTramp ,
@TheGayTramp@lemmy.ca avatar

Ah, ok interesting take on that. I see your point

tun ,

At a quick glace …

Most of the recommendations apply to all the major OS e.g. turn off Bluetooth, do not share location, keep admin account but use standard account for daily use, keep firewall on, etc.

A lot of privacy thing can also be opt-out.

OSCP, SIP and multi layer security hardening are where users could not customize.

in summary, Linux > macOS > Windows.

wrath-sedan OP ,
@wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar

For sure, I think that's a good rule of thumb and lines up pretty well with "how much this OS relies on your data to make a buck."

I was reading there too that most of the privacy and security concerns in macOS are in iCloud, but with Advanced Tracking Protection you can make that E2EE now, or just go with an alternative cloud service.

miss_brainfart ,
@miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml avatar

Is it far fetched to say that they fight against Meta and Google because they want to be the only ones who have your data?

fat_flying_pigs , (edited )

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    miss_brainfart ,
    @miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml avatar

    What about saying that their entire business model is exploiting stockholm syndrome?

    unix_joe , (edited )
    @unix_joe@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    They also only fight for privacy as a marketing differentiator from Google in the US. Their privacy stance varies from country to country.

    If Apple had the same capability to harvest and mine user data as Google, there’s no doubt in my mind they would already be doing so. Their inability to produce a viable cloud service and major security and update issues with iCloud imply it’s a lack of ability and not any pro-user/privacy-oriented sentiment in the company.

    Bitrot ,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    A bit. You can download your data from them, it’s not much.

    shagie ,

    Apple’s business plan isn’t to sell your data to advertisers but rather to sell you (presumably) high quality items that people are willing to pay a premium for.

    To Apple, having your data is a liability rather than an asset and thus they’d like to have as little of it as possible yet still being able to offer you the Apple experience.

    miss_brainfart ,
    @miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml avatar

    Even if they didn’t sell any data, that doesn’t mean they don’t collect a bunch.

    You can tell me all you want, but personal data being so incredibly valuable paired with the fact that Apple was the first trillion dollar company…

    Their overpriced hardware doesn’t play the only role here.

    nakal ,
    @nakal@kbin.social avatar

    No one says the devices are anti consumer, except for some that are intentionally made incompatible with common replacement parts (missing "apple logo"). The walled garden is.

    LinuxSBC ,

    It’s not just a “missing Apple logo” that makes parts not work. If you swap a part from one Apple device to another identical Apple device, it will often not work. For example, the Face ID and Touch ID sensors are paired to the logic board.

    Bitrot ,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    They are paired, which sort of makes sense if you want to try and avoid people modifying them to defeat security, but should have a way for the end user to update it if they’re very sure they want to.

    They sell the parts these days and will pair them for you. They also sell the tools required for the fix (and also rent them out).

    NightAuthor ,

    The self-repair scheme is a facade, they charge just as much for you to do it yourself as they would charge to do it for you.

    As far as touch/face-id, all you have to do is have the registered fingerprints tied to the sensor. If you switch sensor, then finger/face needs to be re-registered. In fact, I think it already works that way, but with the added unnecessary step of getting daddy cook’s kiss of approval in the new sensor.

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