AceQuorthon,

Man, maybe they should enter a union together, wouldn’t that be swell.

popcap200,

Britain will stop being idiotic and will quit electing Tories any day now. Anyyy day.

HenriVolney,

How long has it been? 10 years? 12 years? They got one rigged referendum, one 6 yo tantrum, one pandemic, one recession and one dead royalty.

I say that had enough.

popcap200,

I just googled. The last non conservative PM was Gordon Brown in 2007. 😬

Mchugho,

Even if Labour win, Starmer is basically a conservative neoliberal. Pretty much like all leaders in Europe.

popcap200,

Yeah, still way way better than the tories. IMO a labour or libdem parliament wouldn’t have let brexit happen.

Just FYI I’m speaking from the perspective of an American with friends/family in the UK, so I may be a bit ignorant on the topic.

Mchugho,

It’s way better in the way that eating your own vomit is better than eating your own shit.

taladar,

To be fair the Tories are probably not to blame for that last one.

HorseRabbit,

Another point against them

thanksforallthefish,

I dunno, QE2 had to meet up with Truss, a couple days later she’s dead.

I mean I’d have a brain aneurysm if I had to meet lettuce lady, who’s to say Lizzie didn’t ?

bernieecclestoned,
popcap200,

🙏

Mchugho,

Unfortunately Labour are just terrible in different ways, and sometimes the same ways.

bernieecclestoned,

I read somewhere their policies are about 10 degrees of difference so we just tack one way for 10-15 years and then back

Mchugho,

I don’t expect anything to practically change apart from the rhetoric on migration and asylum, and even then I’m not sure they’ll exactly be that friendly.

bernieecclestoned,

They might actually process the asylum claims rather than leaving them in limbo and unable to work, and actually benefit the economy instead of being a cost

Mchugho,

That is true to be fair. But in terms of investing in the places that need it and taxing the wealthy they will do nothing different to the Tories. To be honest asylum is low down in my list of priorities/problems I want the government to solve. I hate the hostile atmosphere but really fixing the deep rooted social problems this country has is far more important to me.

bernieecclestoned,

We need clean economic growth to fund services, Labour is probably our only chance now the Tories have lurched to the right.

labour.org.uk/…/green-and-digital-future/

Mchugho,

If you think they’re going to pump billions into public services I think you’ll be sorely disappointed. Everything I’ve read about them points to more austerity. I really hope that’s not the case and I understand they are better than the Tories, but it’s an extremely low bar to hurdle.

bernieecclestoned,

Everything does now because of lack of fiscal headroom, things will look wildly different in 18 months.

Both parties are keeping their powder dry. Tories for tax cuts, labour for spend.

Keir is a smart politician, ruthless and compassionate.

Mchugho,

What is the logic on rolling back plans for taxing the wealthy if lack of fiscal headroom is the problem then? Why would you reverse on changing the charitable status of private schools if lack of fiscal headroom is the problem?

The actual reasoning is they are completely on board with the same neoliberal economics that the Tories subscribe to. Keep the donors happy, fuck the little guy.

bernieecclestoned,

Nope, it’s just pragmatic politics. If your opponent lurches right, you take the centre. You don’t lurch left, if you want to win.

Mchugho,

This is how you get an ever rightward drift.

I’m no communist or socialist, but it’s clear to me that Starmer is establishment to the core. He isn’t lurching to the centre from a pragmatic perspective, he is occupying the space he wants to occupy. The fact the media don’t fear him in any way tells you enough.

bernieecclestoned,

UK moves from centre right to centre left fairly predictably. Thankfully the hard right or left never get the popular vote.

Starmer seems quite boring but effective. I don’t have a problem with that. Popularism is much more dangerous.

Mchugho,

Effective at maintaining the status quo for the powerful. That’s the only reason he is championed as effective.

You can want the rich to pay their fair share without burrowing into populism. At the moment what are they offering for an average person other than a red rosette?

bernieecclestoned,

Well the Labour party tried that in 2019 with the worst results ever, you suggest a repeat?

Mchugho,

Absolutely not. It’s completely disingenuous to say just because Corbyn advocated for a specific policy then that policy is no longer workable due to 2019. He had problems that extended far beyond his manifesto.

bernieecclestoned,

And his problems were that he and his cohort were too far left to get elected.

Same as Kinnock.

Nothing more than centre left is electable, evidenced by the election results of the last hundred years.

Mchugho,

Sure if you believe the Tory tabloid attack lines. Most of his domestic policy was mild social democratic thought.

He got destroyed by the media and not for policy reasons.

bernieecclestoned,

Not being destroyed by the media is the job of political leaders…

Mchugho,

Well yeah, that’s why I don’t think he was very good.

But to say that a more media savvy yet actually principled leader would never work is just wrong, it’s never been tried.

bernieecclestoned,

Gordon Brown was more principled than Blair, but lacked the media savviness. Remember the ‘bigot’ open mic gaff 💀

Mchugho,

I just want someone in the boring Starmer mold but who is trying to inject a bit more hope into the normal people of this country. Maybe that is too much to ask for but I don’t think our demographics are fixed, a lot can and will change.

bernieecclestoned,

Same. I’m just hoping it’s just electioneering

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