If you claim that anything that resembles an answer to crimes is a “police”, then you’re talkino about something different than everyone else. The police as it exists today is there to fight class tensions and keep the current order of things.
Do youeknow how many cases of rape cases currently lead to a conviction? Compare that to convictions of people stealing food or not being able to pay their rent.
Crime will always exist. Currently, the way of preventing crime is by individualistic punishment, taking people away from the community they’re in and the fear of the aforementioned. That is not the only way to “fight” crime. Handling crime as an injury of the community and focusing on healing that wound as a community is IMHO a way more effective way that enablino bullies to get a power high.
The police make up the law as they go all the time. Ever heard of “the blue wall of silence”? They cover for each other when someone steps out of line, because to them, group cohesion is more important than playing by the rules.
You seem to not understand what bottom-up decision making is.
No, the self-defense mechanisms aren’t the same thing as “police”, since the former is structured bottom-up and the other one is top-down.
An anarchist society would be organized democratically so that the people affected by policies have a say in these decitions proportional to howeit affects them.
That’s because you can’t over-generalize these things without gausing great injustice in the process.
The communities on a ground level know best how to handle crimes in the community. If you want laws encompassing everyone in every facet of life: go read a bible or something.
Well, since I’m an anarcho-communist: It is a communist (as in: a classless, moneyless society based on the principle: to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability) model of how the world would work.
That’s not how Lenin did things, though. Lenin actively took power away from the sovjets and centralized decision making so that the bolsheviks made decisions top-down, not bottom up. Before the bolsheviks sabotaged it, Ukraine actually was organized in a very anarchist manner after the 1918 revolution.
Why did people burn witches? Maybe because someone in a position of power was in search of a scapegoat to blame because their position was threatened?
where all disputes are “solved” by clan-violence and vigilantes on the streets
Very non-hierarchical structures you’re describing here. /s
Why do you believe, when your neighbours form their little vigilante groups, that they will help you when someone rapes you? What if the rapist is a friend of them or even someone from that group? What if they believe it’s okay to rape specific people or under specific circumstances?
I’m not proposing "neighbors form[ing] little vigilante groups, so… Idk? 🤷
Many bible communities would rejoice in anarchy bevause then they can enforce all their fucked up rules again and kids who are born into these communities…
Yeah, because religion didn’t spread through conquest. /s
Your community on the ground level decided it’s okay to burn people as witches who have red hair.
You have a really fucked up image of humanity, do you know that? You do know that Hobbes was wrong with his Leviathan, right?
You’re proposing a false dichotomy: Humanity has the potential to be caring for each other or to be fucked up and only look out for themselves. It depends on what behavior is fostered in society to see if people in that society are (on average) “fucked up” or not .
I believe that fostering hierarchies of command and control teaches people to be fucked up. That being in a position of power over others fucks yowr brain up to think that you are above them and abuse that power. That is why I dislike hierarchies and by extension: the police.
That is why I believe we should build societies that should question and/or refuse these hierarchies, whenever they appear.
Hobbes believed that people are fucked up “deep down” and therefore, we need a hierarchical state to keep us in line. I think that he got it the wrong way round: That power corrupts us and makes us fucked up.
And I’m sure you know that feeling. That you had some teacher or boss in the past who treated you unfairly, because hey know they would get away with it, because they had a higher rank than you. It’s quite a universal experience.
There is not a single society without police that doesn’t oppress it’s children and women.
That’s simply not true. Counterexamples:
The CNT/FAI in 1930s Cathalonia
Anarchist Ukraine after the1918 revolution
The Zapatistas
Many pre-colonial native American tribes, e.g. The Wendat
Pretty much any immediate-return hunter gatherer people, e.g. the Hadza or the Pygmy
The only thing that is stopping them from enforcing their believes is that the country I live in decided that it is wrong to treat people that way and to enforce this believe they have laws and police.
So, if a country can “decide” this, why can’t a community “decide” it? We both know that there are bucket loads of precedents of countries oppressing minorities both in the past and now. So obviously, a state doesn’t guarantee that people aren’t oppressed. I’d even claim that most countries still oppress their children (to raise them as “productive” workers).
I don’t want to have to fit in to be free
You have to do so today. If you don’t notice that, that’s because you fit in.
and I don’t want to be scared of my neighbours all the time.
Ever heard of racism in the police? And you claim that I don’t acknowledge my privileges.
Anarchists just seem like a bunch of spoiled privileged people to me who’s only concern is that someone doesn’t allow them to consume drugs or whatever. I just wish they’d try living in a place without these structures in place for a while they privilege off but don’t acknowledge.
Anarchists are acutely aware of the injustices that don’t harm them directly. One rallying cry is “no one is free until we all are free” after all.
So, what is in your opinion the major reasonS for people committing crime? Or do you think it is evenly distributed, so you can’t properly study that stuff.
And how would you personally prevent crime?
It is the easiest thing in the world to defend the status quo by pointig out that alternatives haven’t been formulated to the most minute detail.
I gwess you missed the part of Fury Road where a political elite class had complete control over the means of existence for everyone else and literally owned breeding slaves.
All of which developed heirarchy because all of society has heirarchy as heirarchy is a natural offshoot of society.
Why do you think I always specify “command and control”, when talking about hierarchies? What do you consider a hierarchy? Anarchists specifically focus on hierarchies of decision making power.
Controlled by a generaltariat
A delegate body that coordinates processes and that can be revoked if the community chooses to do so is something else than a boss who can fire you. Also: you probably skipped the part about "workers’ self-management.
and lasted less than a year. Why is that relevant? Do you know why it lasted for such a short period? Is “being able to win against fashists on several fronts” now something we want to require every social system to have, because I have some bad news about parlamentary democracy concerning Weimar Germany.
Directed by Symon Petliura also lasted less than a year.
Lol, Petliura was a nationalist and opposed to the anarchist movement. (granted: I might have gotten the year wrong)
who also specifically and repeatedly have stated they are not anarchist.
They refuse to follow the european tradition, since “anarchism” is a mostly western political movement. The way they act in practice is however de facto anarchist as in bottom-up basic democratic.
Native tribes are almost all communes lead by tribal counsel
Again: I don’t think we use the same definitions of hierarchy.
As for the hadza, maybe just maybe though I don’t actually believe it myself I would have to see it in action but I can pretty much guarantee “conflict is rare” doesn’t mean absent
Never claimed anything about conflicts being absent. I was making a claim of an egalitarian society.
“pygmy” aren’t a thing, that’s Dutch colonial nonsense which actually refers to any number of people distributed throughout the world.
Ok, didn’t know that. Anthropology is not my main field, so please excuse me. However, virtually all immediate return hunter-gatherer societies are egalitarian.
Who do you default to in dnd when there is a dispute? The dm because the dm is the authority and thus on top with players below
What happens when a dm is such a dick that people don’t want to play with them anymore?
It might not change what you said, but I never claimed anything about Mad Max. Just thought it’s funny to claim that “Mad Max is communist”.
Ok, if you think that you’re talking to one person with two alt accounts for some reason, I guess you’re free to be wrong, I guess. I don’t care to (and logically can’t) prove that’s not the case to your paranoid ass.
Me (thinking that it’s funny to claim that Mad Max is communism, when all four movies have quite different societal structures depicted): Lol, Fury Road much?
Sorry, can’t porperly parse your comment anymore without further structure.
We disagree on fundamental definitions. Furthermoree you accuse me of bad faith by “hedging”, so I see less and less reason to carry on arguing with you.
If you want, you can think that you “won” by slam-dunking some anarkiddie on the internet. Have a pleasant day.
Ok, how can I prove to you that I don’t use alt accounts for your stupid arguments? Furthermore: what would I gain from it? You’re already ridiculing yourself by claiming it. No one else cares. Do you think I want the respect of a bully?
I know that I can get carried away sometimes. No shame in that and never claimed anything else.
You however just admitted that you are “extremely rude” yourself. So I guess you can imagine why people like to disengage with you (yes, it is because of your awesome 1337 haxx0r debating skills with your based galaxy brain /s)
Funny how that works: this is my German persona of all my alt accounts (check the instance) and in Germany, there is a saying: “However you will shout into the forest, the response will be of the same kind.” (“Wie es in den Wald hineinruft, so schallt es wieder hinaus.”)
Wow, you sure showed that guy Heinrich von Morungen, who said that phrase around 1220 BC. (“Der sô lange rüeft in einen touben walt, ez antwurt ime dar ûz etes wenne”)
Too bad he will never have known how much he’s been owned by you roughly 800 years later. /s
A soul for a soul (lemmy.zip)
Rule (sh.itjust.works)