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18+ Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@matthewtoad43 @MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

I'm not saying 100% nuclear would be best, but I /know/ that 100% volatiles + storage + transmission are practically impossible.

Up to around 40% volatiles can be compensated by a large grid. The rest can, with current or near-future technology, be nuclear and/or hydro. With middle-future technology, this /might/ be gradually replaced by more volatiles+storage+transmission.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @matthewtoad43 @BrianSmith950 @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

Sorry to interrupt, but nothing about this is »trivial«.

Also, you must compare the complete system. Let's summarize just two options:

  • Nuclear power plants, and the grid as is.
  • Wind turbines, solar panels, plus a multiple of the current grid, plus hypothetical storage tech none of which has passed the pilot stage yet.

What is your bet? How do you think decarbonization has /already/ been achieved?

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

Yes, shipping in general, especially long-distance, is a huge issue. But it is only solvable through economics. A solution must be at least as effective and efficient (from a business perspective) as the current dirty oil burning, /and/ significantly better at something to overcome inertia.

My bet would be #nuclear power for that: already being done for decades (mostly military though), and the environment seems ideal (no cooling issues).

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

Without klicking anything, 61 million € is practically nothing, so I do not expect this to be a big, impactful project. It might be a nice little extra income from surplus hydro power (Norway is almost completely running on hydro).

Then looking into the links, this supports just a small fleet of up to 40 ships. Which is good.

I think it can be a good way for this niche, and it might be one little thing less to worry about.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

A few points to factor in:

  • A nuclear power station has a much longer lifetime than batteries, solar panels, and wind turbines.

  • You need not only the batteries, but also the panels/turbines to fill them.

  • Conversion and storage losses are significant. Attached is a rough overview for H₂.

  • Transmission infrastructure costs to/from individual cars are significant.

  • 24 h is not enough by far to balance out usual fluctuations.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis My thinking about biomass: if we don't burn it, it will not be released as CO₂ to the atmosphere.

I guess the thinking about biomass was: if we only burned biomass, not fossil mass, then we'd have an equilibrium and no problem. But saying that biomass is net-zero gets it backwards. The CO₂ doesn't care where it's coming from. It is our task to produce as little CO₂ as possible. The goal is to get below the amount of CO₂ /captured/ by biological processes.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

⇒ - Backup. Of course, anything inherently CO₂-producing is out for this, and this includes gas, obviously, and biomass (maybe less obviously, but think about it). And that leaves?

So, this is my plan: keep building solar and wind till peak demand is sometimes met, build nuclear to replace all the fossil »backup«.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

⇒ - Storage: obviously, we'd want to smoothen out the time dimension as well. This means adding storage that can meet 100% of demand as well (volatile sources frequently drop to 0), and feeding it with enough additional clean sources that it can fill every expected gap (and gap accumulation).

And here I'd like to repeat my point from before: the best (most effective) storage we have right now is pumped hydro, by far. And pumped hydro is not enough, by far.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

⇒ Now the volatile supply line has valleys between the peaks. If you integrate over time and place, the supply line covers about 40% of demand in this situation.

That is /very rough/ and depends on a lot of factors, but my point is the same if it were 30% or 60%: where does the rest come from?

  • Transmission: as already mentioned, we know how to transmit electric energy, it's just material and effort. This smoothes out the »place« dimension.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

⇒ (But at least we already have transmission tech, it is now just a question of materials and effort.)

So, assume that we have enough wind and solar that we can regularly produce 100% of demand from them. You can imagine peaks just touching the demand line at top demand.

(You could imagine more than that, but that would mean overbuilding, which hurts the economics quite badly while not making the end result much better.)

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

⇒ Aside: the »place« problem is that you can't build solar panels and wind turbines just anywhere, and they need a lot of space. E. g. Germany has now the problem that the wind blows much better in the north, but the industry is more in the south. So, you need a lot more/stronger transmission lines. Same for offshore wind: more wind at sea, but you need a lot of cables.

The more wind and solar you already have, the more the good places are already taken.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis

I'll try to explain the 40%, sorry for the parts that you already know.

Electric energy is always produced at the same time (and »place« roughly) as it is consumed. (You can't pump electricity into some reservoir to be consumed later, you always need a different energy form for storage.)

The problem with volatile sources is that they mostly (more than half) produce energy at the wrong time and/or the wrong place, and at other times produce nothing.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis We're going in circles. Volatile sources can only supply 40% of current demand for £50/MWh. The question is what fills the rest.

If storage, then the price goes up immediately by at least two conversion losses from/to storage, in addition to the cost of storage itself. Which doesn't exist at the needed scalability.

Pointing to single projects is not meaningful, as we need to build a fleet anyway, which has its own dynamics.

Construction time of nuclear reactors vs. the year that construction started. By year from 1950 to 2016. The bulk of points lies between around 50 and 100 months, but there are some outliers.

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis If you include construction and disposal (and transport and so on…) it is called lifecycle costs. First image shows that per energy produced (sorry german, »AKW neu« is new-built nuclear).

Uranium comes from all over the world. Second image shows the situation a few years ago. Niger is place 5, Russia place 7.

Weltweite Uranreserven 2019 (in 1000 t Uran) Angegeben sind die RAR (Reasonably Assured Resources) bei einem Uranpreis bis 260 Dollar pro kg Zu sehen sind Kreise auf der ganzen Welt, mit den größten in Australien (1285), Kanada (652), Kasachstan (465), Namibia (321), Niger (316), Südafrika (258), Russland (257), Indien (188), Brasilien (156), China (123), Ukraine (122), USA (102).

Ardubal, to europe in How dependent is France on Niger's uranium?
@Ardubal@mastodon.xyz avatar

@MattMastodon @Sodis Again: that demand is lower at night is already factored in. Roughly 40% of demand can be directly met by volatile sources. You may think nuclear is slow to deploy, but it's still much faster than anything that doesn't exist.

The gap is 60%. Gas is a fossil fuel. Varying use is mostly a euphemism. If you hurt industry, you won't have the industry to build clean energy sources.

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