@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

poVoq

@[email protected]

Main admin of slrpnk.net instance.

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

poVoq,
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When someone subscribes to them.

poVoq,
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You need to wait for your instance to be updated to 0.19 for individual instance blocks to be available.

poVoq,
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This predates Google Talk and is rather about the XMPP Gmail integration. Back then XMPP was the hot topic in tech circles (Twitter was even prototyped to be XMPP based) and people were switching to it and recommending it to others to replace ICQ/MSN/AIM etc. However, often they recommended others to use the Google XMPP service as back then Google was still naively seen as the “Do no evil” good guy, having just started up recently and giving away free things like previously unheared off 1GB of email storage etc.

So the situation is not quite comparable to AP and Facebook (and XMPP is far from dead), but it is still possible to draw some lessons from it.

poVoq,
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They piggy backed on rapidly growing XMPP and then became lazy with keeping compatible with the rest of the xmpp federation and at some point the s2s connection stopped being feasible as they never implemented TLS for it, and did’t really care as most xmpp users were on their server anyways and thus did’t use the s2s connection.

Its not a typical nefarious EEE story, but it did a lot of damage to the xmpp federation anyways.

Yet another approach on Threads (Jerry Bell) (infosec.exchange)

I continue to be squeezed by both sides of the threads situation. I am operating on the premise that people who think I’m a terrible person and this is a terrible instance for allowing any interaction with threads have left and/or blocked, those remaining seem to want to either have nothing to do with threads at all and are...

poVoq,
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And Meta is laughing all the way to the bank.

Individual blocking means nothing, it just hides the accounts and politely asks the remote server to not allow any responses.

Only defederation really makes the server stop sharing data and only that has a decent chance to convince the Meta lawyers that maybe copyright prevents them from gobbling up everything and feed it to their advertisement algorithms and train their AIs on it.

poVoq,
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They can not legally just download and use what people share. Meta is under high legal scrutiny and this would be clearly against copyright.

If they can train AI on it is currently an open legal question, but for sure they can do it if you allow them to do it by federating openly with them.

poVoq,
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If they run a Mastodon instance they would be defederated as well.

And yes you retain copyright over what you write automatically and Meta can’t use it legally just like that. It doesn’t matter how you feel about it, the only thing that matters is what is written in the ToS of your instance which you agreed to when signing up. Usually it has a clause that allows them to forward messages to other federated instances, which would include Threads unless defederated.

Training AI is a big exception to all this as it is currently not known how to deal with all this legally, as training an AI does not require to copy the content but rather just have the training algorithm “look” at it…

poVoq, (edited )
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Well, if they don’t have a ToS clause for that, then technically they are violating your copyright by sharing your contributions with other instances.

Most commercial services force users to completely sign over the legal rights for their contributions to the service.

On the Lemmy instance I am on the ToS clearly states that people agree to have their original contributions licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 4.0 or later license, which allows redistribution if certain terms are fulfilled.

poVoq,
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This is not how it works technically.

For Meta to analyze your data they need to either scrape it (legally questionable and scraper bots are commonly blocked on server level) or work with a local copy. By federating with them you are allowing them to legally make a local copy of all the posts of the instance.

Newspaper articled are often also public, yet google got sued (and lost) because they were scraping and analyzing them to put previews in their search results.

Just because something is public doesn’t mean you can just take it. Copyright still aplies.

Defederation does stop legal use, and Meta is already in enough legal trouble, especially in the EU, that they are unlikely to blatantly pirate user contributed content from sites that defederated from them.

poVoq,
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You are missing the point entirely: in order to put advertisement next to it, they of course need to copy and redistribute it.

Why do you think they haven’t enabled two way federation yet? It is precisely because of the unclear legal situation regarding content sourced through federation.

And as shady as Meta is, they are an established company with a big legal department and not some web scalper operating from a 3rd world country.

poVoq,
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You are arguing against something I never claimed.

I said that if Facebook wants to copy and republish something (so that they can put advertisements next to it) they will do that through legal ways as postd are copyright protected. The only way they can do that is through openly federating instances that allow republishing in their ToS.

It is totally irrelevant if scraping is legal or not (its a gray area), the questing is rather does defederation stop Facebook from using posts from the Fediverse, and it likely does (IANAL).

poVoq,
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What a dumb take.

Yeah stuff is public, but that doesn’t mean we have to hand it to them on a silverplatter and allow them to scrape it legally. Because they don’t have the legal right to just scrape websites, as everything is copyrighted unless the ToS specifically allows federated instances to copy it. By defederating you make it pretty clear they they are not allowed to just take it.

Next point equally dumb: no one owns the fediverse, sure. But if enough instances say no, that means they are not welcome. Democracy and all…

And the last point is the dumbest: Threads will just include a revenue sharing model like Youtube does and the ”dumb fucks" (quote Zuckerberg) will love to include ads in their posts; even praise Meta for being so generous to throw them some crumbs.

poVoq,
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This would definilty be more interesting if there was Lemmy interop. I guess only a question of time.

poVoq,
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Some rural areas have surprisingly good glasfiber home internet these days 😅

poVoq,
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Actually better than that: I already have the batteries and the inverter and just need to get some solar panels to install (next year sometime) and then it will run almost completely on locally produced renewable energy.

Right now it is still on local grid power, but that is mostly geothermal and wind (at least 60% on average).

poVoq,
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xmpp: similar to matrix the key situation is confusing, also no cross device history.

Please don’t tell me you only tried Pidgin 🤦‍♂️

Of course there is cross device history on xmpp. And what “key situation”? Its all automatic.

poVoq,
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Well you can try snikket.org which packages a Prosody server with suitable clients and it all should just work ™. They also offer a hosted version.

On joinjabber.org you can also find recommended clients and servers that should work without problems.

But to be honest, none of the issues you describe are actually real in my experience. Yes you read them everywhere from badly informed online pundits, but if you use a modern xmpp client with a modern xmpp server it all just works without issues and e2ee keys are automatically exchanged on first message without any problem.

There are some vastly outdated clients like Pidgin that do cause issues, but it is a bit unfair to blame that on xmpp, when Pidgin has not updated their xmpp implementation for more than 10 years 🙄

poVoq,
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snikket.org/hosting/

They can host it for you.

As for Gajim, I have been using it for years and never had history sync issues. Maybe you expect to be able to sync old e2ee messages on new devices? That is impossible to do with OMEMO and actually an intended security feature.

poVoq,
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Are there some details about using the new persistent queue in more complex setups? I remember initially it was supposed to run in a separate worker container or so?

poVoq,
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Webpush or UnifiedPush would be the answers, but neither is currently supported by Lemmy.

Edit: but please don’t abuse Lemmy’s DMs as a sort of instant messenger. It’s not meant for that and also insecure. It’s meant to be asyncroneous like email at most and you don’t need push notifications for that.

poVoq,
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I don’t agree that this is something needed, but if you decide to work on it anyway, maybe try to make it compatible with Pixelfed’s Sup. github.com/theSupApp

masimatutu, to fediverse en-gb

Default instance blocks should largely replace defederation

Since what content users might want to see is quite unlikely to match which servers the admins tolerate, choosing instance on the Fediverse can be quite complicated, which is inconvenient and off-putting for new users.

For this reason, and simply that the Fediverse is stronger united, I believe defederation should ideally be reserved for illegal content and extreme cases. If Fediverse platforms would allow instances to simply block the rest for users by default, the user experience would be the same, unless they decide otherwise.

@fediverse

poVoq, (edited )
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That wouldn’t work. I find it strange that some users keep thinking moderation or defederation is somehow about them or to keep them from accessing things. Talk about self-centered to an extreme degree 😅

Defederation is primarily used to keep bad stuff away from an instance and its (volunteer) moderators. Either because it is illegal or because it causes loads of moderation workload in the communities hosted by an instance. Neither of which would your proposal of soft-defederation solve even a single bit.

poVoq,
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Just because few people can see it in the home instance doesn’t mean it isn’t there. And when a community is viewed from remote instances that have a different soft-defederation list all the bad stuff will be publicly visible (and indexed via search engines).

So for example a feminist community would be full of incel posts that are publicly visible almost everywhere.

poVoq,
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You got that completely backwards.

You as a user are a guest of something akin to a private house party and are expected to behave as such. In turn the instance tries to be a welcoming party host by providing an enjoyable place for you to talk with other guests.

Moderation in that case is about removing guest that don’t know how to behave and choose to shit on the carpet. Defederation is about turning away known to be bad guests at the entrance so that the volunteers inside don’t have to clean shit off the carpets all the time.

poVoq,
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Its a private party, not a service to anyone. The host does it because they enjoy having a party with their friends and other people that know how to behave.

And no, federated users are no different from local users. What matters is the server location of the community.

poVoq,
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If you host your own instance you are free to invite who ever you choose to your own parties 🤷‍♂️

poVoq,
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What ethics? Anyone is free to open an account elsewhere.

And its not about locking anyone in, but why should I as an instance host pay for the drinks of someone that takes them to another party with horrible people that constantly try to crash parties over at my place?

I don’t mind doing that with nice people’s parties as I want to go over to their parties sometimes as well.

But if they really want to hang out with these horrible party crashers, they can move over there or make their own party and invite them.

poVoq,
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I think you need to be more specific in what you mean by that. I don’t think anything in the metaphors that I just wrote is unethical.

Corporate social media is unethical because they spy on you and sell your personal data to advertisers. In addition one could argue they are also unethical because they optimize their algorithms to psychologically manipulate you with the goal of stealing your time and attention so that they can show you more advertisements.

poVoq,
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For 99% of the users, defederation is a complete non-issue and doesn’t effect the choice of an instance at all.

IMHO the only people that are complaining about it are either doing it in bad faith or have been somehow gaslit into believing it is an issue by others that did so in bad faith.

poVoq,
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Yes a lot of FOMO and people gaslit into believing it is an issue. But if you look at the main feed of Lemm.ee and compare it with pretty much any larger normal instance other than Beehaw, the content is almost the same (minus some low effort shit posts from Hexbear no-one is going to miss).

poVoq,
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If I remember correctly it actually uses two separate anti-cheat, and the second one not made by Epic doesn’t have Linux or Wine support.

But it’s still a weak excuse that they could just make a Linux version without that redundant second anti-cheat.

[Discussion] Reddit-like aspects of Lemmy that make no sense in a federation.

Disclaimer: I like the Fediverse, Lemmy, and the concept of federation, I’ve been here for two years, and I feel grateful towards people working on this platform - devs and admins and mods and everyone else. As such, I hope that what I’m voicing is interpreted as constructive criticism and food for discussion....

poVoq,
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By default, admins should focus mostly on the activity inside their own instances. Let the behaviour of their users in other instances up to those admins;

This can’t possibly work due to two related reasons:

  1. Small instances don’t have enough moderators to deal with a large number of remote users alone.
  2. Only the threat of losing their main account on the home instance is a deterrent for some users to not troll on remote instances.

I think it should be rather that admins should leave moderation on their own instance mostly to the local community mods and specifically focus on what the users that they are responsible for are doing on remote instances. If admins are unwilling to do that, then this would be grounds for a defederation as this is basically the most important job to build a good reputation of an instance.

poVoq,
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The Telegram client available on F-droid does not use FCM for push notifications.

poVoq,
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www.chuden.co.jp/english/…/1211037_5163.html

Has some technical details on the project in Bavaria. It seems to produce relatively low grade heat used mostly for district heating, with a relatively small ORC power generator.

poVoq,
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joinjabber.org/tutorials/service/unifiedpush/

poVoq,
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Akkoma is actually the better choice as it is an improved Pleroma fork

Gotosocial also seems nice.

poVoq,
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I was hoping for a RK3588S based one, but I guess the GPU drivers for that are not quite there yet.

poVoq,
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Ghorkas keeping with the tradition to fight for imperialist empires…

poVoq,
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The f-droid version should be ok for now, but if you installed this from the malware distribution channel aka the Playstore I would recommend to deinstall them before the next update hits.

poVoq,
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I can see what you are trying to do in this text, but as a metaphor it doesn’t really work and the use of “open web” etc makes it too up front as well. Which leaves this text in a weird half metaphorical / half not situation that is rather confusing.

And it isn’t very Solarpunkish 😉

RTR#29 Another boring update: Categories and bug fixes (kbin.social)

Today, I wanted to introduce you to Categories - a new feature that is essentially a multi-mags view. A new tab will appear in the user panel where you can create categories (public or private) and then add magazines to them (local or remote). In the magazine listing, there will be another tab that will list public categories...

/kbin logotype
poVoq,
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Will there be a way for communities to opt-out from being listed in a category?

I think there is a lot of abuse potential in this and even if well intended, a single word or so can’t really describe what communities are about, and as a result those categories (similar to the “all” feed) will bring a lot of off-topic comments and trolling from people not engaged with the communities at all otherwise.

On Mastodon with hashtags the original poster can at least make a conscious choice of being listed under it or not. But this seems fully third party driven and I fear it will increase moderation workload significantly.

poVoq,
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Most trolling and brigading is fairly low effort, and having a sharable collection of communities to troll makes it much easier to organize lots of people to do just that. Edit: yes external tools for that exist but having it built in makes it much easier to abuse and rope in people to do the trolling that otherwise would not bother.

But my main concern is that this isn’t opt-in for communities. Having a sharable and subscribable link with for example “meme” communities means that all of them are seeing a constant barrage of random people commenting that are not members of that community and do not have any idea what the community is about other than that it is somewhat loosely related to “memes”. It basically hides everything that is vital about the communities and actively damages attempts at community building.

poVoq,
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Whatsapp is under the hood still a lightly modified XMPP system, and given Zucks recent comments about federated protocols (albright in a Threads i.e. ActivityPub context), they might just get their XMPP federation working again.

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