cyclohexane

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West Asia - Communist - international politics - anti-imperialism - software development - Math, science, chemistry, history, sociology, and a lot more.

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Israeli minister: 'We are fighting human animals' (www.middleeastmonitor.com)

Israel’s Defence Minister Yaov Gallant has ordered the complete closure of the Gaza Strip, including a ban on the entry of food, water, fuel or access to electricity as Israel intensifies its bombardment of the besieged Strip in the wake of the surprise attack by the Palestinian resistance. His comments have drawn criticism...

cyclohexane,

What definition of “terrorist organization” are we using here?

cyclohexane,

He’s also really blowing those “acts of a few” out of proportion, because even those acts are not a big concern, especially compared to the horrors Israel commits.

cyclohexane, (edited )

Innocent people who thought it was totally okay to go party and rave on the outskirts of the biggest open air prison on earth, where people are getting massacred daily. Where children get separated from their parents or families daily, if not murdered themselves or burned alive or raped. Where people are given just enough electricity, drinking water and food to experience slow death and suffer.

Literally you have the entire world open, and if all the places to party and rave you choose that? I do not celebrate death, but if anyone to blame, it is themselves.

Hamas has treated their hostages far better than Israel has treated theirs, even though Israel is a recognized state that answers to the international community, and Hamas is a mere militia.

cyclohexane,

A music festival held in outskirts of the biggest open air prison on earth, where people are getting massacred daily. Where children get separated from their parents or families daily, if not murdered themselves or burned alive or raped. Where people are given just enough electricity, drinking water and food to experience slow death and suffer.

Literally you have the entire world open, and if all the places to party and rave you choose that? I do not celebrate death, but if anyone to blame, it is themselves.

cyclohexane,

A peace festival held in outskirts of a concentration camp, where people are getting massacred daily. Where children get separated from their parents or families daily, if not murdered themselves or burned alive or raped. Where people are given just enough electricity, drinking water and food to experience slow death and suffer.

Literally you have the entire world open, and if all the places to party and rave you choose that? It’s pretty ironic to call it a peace festival.

Can the government decrypt your WhatsApp chats?

For open source messengers, you can check whether they actually encrypt your messages and whether the server has access to your encryption keys but what about WhatsApp? Since it’s not open source, you can’t be sure that the encryption keys aren’t sent to the server, right? Has there been a case where a government was able...

cyclohexane, (edited )

The code is not open source, so it’s hard to verify how good the encryption is or if it has backdoors.

I’m not an expert in cryptography, but from my limited knowledge, the cryptographic keys used are very important. If Meta or the government can somehow know the decryption key to your messages or predict it, then they can see your messages.

But they most likely don’t need to decrypt it in transit. One of the vulnerabilities in this system is Google firebase, which delivers notifications to your phone when WhatsApp messages arrive. Ever noticed how those notifications include the message content and the sender? Google has access to this information, despite the encryption.

That’s just an example. Google has access to a lot on your phone.

Another thing to consider is message metadata. The content of your message is encrypted, but what about information like the destination of your message, its recipients, time sent and received, and frequency? I’d even argue this is more important than content in many situations. Sometimes, linking person A to person B tells me a lot about person A.

cyclohexane,

Hamas is not even a fraction of the concern that Israel is. Casualties are not even order of magnitudes close. Even the horrific ways in which Israel has tortured and murdered Palestinians is unmatched by Hamas, despite it being a militia rather than an organized army judged by the international community.

Israel has burned children alive, they have officials who bragged about raping and torturing children, they make people destroy their own homes by THEIR OWN HANDS. And this is while Israel has the upper hand, yet it is still the more horrifying of the two by many orders of magnitude. Comparing the two is sickening.

cyclohexane,

What matters isn’t who came first. What matters is that no one has the right to expel a human from a land they’re living in. That is the core of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

I am pro Palestine, but have no issue with the increase of Jewish migrations in the 19th century. The problem is not Jewish migration. It is the fact that Israel expelled Palestinians from their homes, murdered them, suffocated them, and made their lives miserable.

And this is the same thing that was done to the native people of the modern day Americas.

cyclohexane,

Where?

cyclohexane,

So you’re saying native Americans have every right to kill, maim and rape settler-colonialist Americans?

Where did OP say this? It is a bannable offense so please point out where, as I don’t see it.

cyclohexane,

An outspoken supporter of genocide and colonialism? Yeah that’s a ban from me.

cyclohexane,

I see you made an edit, so I’ll respond to it here.

While no one should have the right to rape anyone or murder innocent people, the only one to blame for these atrocities is the Israeli state. They are keeping millions of people in a concentration camp, massacring them slowly every day, destroying their homes, cutting off supply lines and giving them just enough living resources to experience slow death. They burn their children alive. Their soldiers brag about raping Palestinians.

So then if those people lose it and retaliate, who are you going to blame? Those trapped in the concentration camp and chose to resist? Or the ones doing it to them?

And in reality, despite all of this, Hamas has been far more humane in treating Israelis than Israel is with Palestinians. They protected their hostages, and have a history of doing so. They give mothers and the elderly special treatment.

If you are upset about rape and cold blooded murder, look no further than Israel. If you’re outraged about Hamas, who’s not even a fraction the concern that Israel is, your priorities are not right at all.

cyclohexane,

I don’t doubt this at all, but any resources on this?

cyclohexane,

Other examples existing does not change that it is historically unprecedented and far from the norm. And its just a really strange and pointless thing to point.

Person A: “my dad died in a car bomb” Person B: “ehh, average family death” A: “uhh what?” B: "well, there are other examples of people dying in car bombs, dude! "

cyclohexane,

So… Average history?

No

cyclohexane,

Welcome to the Internet. Do you know how it works?

cyclohexane,

Yeah uhh… Not at all, actually.

cyclohexane,

If more than one entity massacred people, it means massacre is okay? Very strange logic. Do bad things have to be done by only one entity to be considered bad?

cyclohexane,

You’re correcting me saying that expelling native populations time and time again from every land they go to, then genociding their entire population to the point of near extinction, using the most horrific methods and over centuries, is more akin to dying of old age than dying by a bomb?

Please read that again and confirm to me that’s what you’re saying, because it sounds absolutely ridiculous. This scale and this horror are not common historical occurrence.

cyclohexane, (edited )

I am sorry to restate this again, but the expulsion, genocide on the scale (both in size and horror) is historically unprecedented. You’re going to have to prove this to me if you think it’s a common occurrence instead of continuing to repeat it.

And for the record, no one here is talking about small scale expulsion. I am talking about expulsion AND genocide on the same scale and horror committed here. Show me that it is a common occurrence and I will concede.

cyclohexane, (edited )

I’ve seen a multitude of other comments here proclaiming all those other genocides were okay because they were thousands of years ago.

Where did anyone say it was okay because it was longer ago? Please point me to it, because I read the entire thread and did not see this once.

The genocide of native new worlders is historically unprecedented and that is fact. I highly doubt that genocides on the same scale, magnitude and horror are commonplace throughout history. I would urge you to support your claim with evidence or examples if you are going to repeat it, otherwise it is entirely baseless.

How much of the tab am I supposed to pick up?

However much it takes to bring up the status of the natives to what it would have been had they not been massacred and expelled, and undo the propping up of Western civilization on their backs. If you’d like more specific examples, I’d be glad to give them to you. Just ask.

We’re in a (relatively) peaceful era now

Source? That’s a pretty big claim.

cyclohexane,

I love when people on the Internet say “X did Y quietly” to make it more suspenseful. This doesn’t look quiet to me…

cyclohexane,

I gave up on voting when I realized the last however many times I did it changed nothing. I want a real solution, not a distraction.

cyclohexane,

Unions, sure.

Voting and calling representatives is a futile approach. They’re a distraction at best. Unions are an example of what I mean by uniting our efforts and taking action.

cyclohexane,

Quite the opposite, actually. Corporations love for you to be distracted with the methods that are futile. Don’t you ever think about unionizing, striking, protesting, blocking traffic to our stores, boycotting, or any of that. Just do the things that don’t hurt our profits!

cyclohexane,

Then you’d be wrong, because voting is futile and a distraction, as I already said. Refer to the rest my comment for direct action methods that aren’t futile:

unionizing, striking, protesting, blocking traffic to our stores, boycotting

cyclohexane,

Can you recommend any? I’m in a pro Israeli one, so I’m looking for either neutral or pro Palestinian.

cyclohexane,

Hamas is a militia. They don’t have an airforce and whatever else is required to be a military.

I’d urge you to compare the casualties caused by each of the “armies”. Hamas is not even a fraction of the concern that Israel is.

cyclohexane,

Let me guess… India?

cyclohexane, (edited )

And Israel has a history of propping up Hamas. They even admit it.

cyclohexane,

all this land is my country’s, the other country should not exist.

One of those countries is an ethno-religious state that is exclusive of the other. Can you guess which one?

If you are an ethno-religious exclusivist who says “your country shouldn’t exist only mine!” and I am a country that multi-religious, and say “actually my country should be the prevailing one, not your exclusivist one”, you gotta realize those two are massively different, unlike you portray.

The Russo-Ukranian conflict is clear. One leader is claiming the land of the other

Russia’s original pretext for the war is not about territorial gains. It was supposedly regarding Ukraine’s attack on Donetsk, Luhansk, and ethnic Russian populations in general (such as the Odessa massacre), what they also called “de-nazification” of the Ukrainian government, and Ukraine’s bid to join NATO. This is easily verifiable, but I can provide you a sources on this if you doubt me.

I am not claiming what Russia is saying is true, but it is not what you make it seem to make your argument.

cyclohexane,

can anyone rightfully claim it the land belongs to “Palestine”

You should tell that to Israel, which is expelling Palestinians from this land every week for decades. It is not the Palestinians who are claiming the land exclusively to themselves and expelling others from it. It is Israel doing that. I find it crazy that you somehow argue this as if Palestine is doing that.

cyclohexane, (edited )

In what ways are they different that it justifies supporting Ukraine but not Palestine?

No one is saying they’re identical. But there are similarities.

cyclohexane,

They’re not identical but there are many similarities.

cyclohexane,

Please do not put words in my mouth that I did not say, I will not entertain that. I am happy to respond to any arguments you make or answer any questions otherwise.

cyclohexane, (edited )

Russias pretext for the war complete horseshit

Why are you arguing with me about Russias pretext, as if I’m telling you I support them? I specifically said I don’t. Stop deflecting please, and argue my actual point.

cyclohexane,

Israel is not offering “peaceful integration”. Have a look at Palestinians who already live outside of Gaza, in the rest of occupied Palestine. The only choices are leave, suffer or resist.

cyclohexane,

Your sentence doesn’t make sense. Moreover, the Palestinian stance of most groups has been integration and living together peacefully and happily. “Resisting” their expulsion and the murder against them does not contradict that.

cyclohexane,

You can only be talking about Palestine here, right? There is limited Muslim representation in Israel and no jewish representation in Palestine

Israel is a Jewish theocracy by its own admission. Palestine has Muslims and Christians. Palestine was never ruled by a theocracy. The most popular groups have always been secular (example: PFLP). Even the Palestinian Authority is secular.

Whatever “muslim” representation there is in Israel, it is as good as none and does not change that it is an exclusive theocracy. Literally there is no equivalent to their religious exclusivism in any Muslim-majority nation. It is only matched by militant groups like ISIS.

Meanwhile I have no doubts that if Palestine had a button that would make all jews evaporate, they’d not hesitate to push it in an instant.

Source? This is an extremely bad faith argument. “A is genocidal. B has never done so. But I’m sure B would if they could, so that means A is justified!”. Please read that again and tell me you don’t see how ridiculous it sounds.

And you don’t have to hypothesize. Before Israel was created, and during the increase of Jewish migrations in the 19th century and early 20th, Arabs never enacted any genocide against the Jews or did what Israel does today. In fact, European Jews found it to be a safe haven in comparison to Europe.

Hamas is massively antisemitic

Hamas only garners support because it is the only group left putting up a fight. It was never popular before that. But because of that, it has many non-Hamas-ians joining its ranks, and many of them reiterate their support for living peacefully among Jews.

And its important to point out that Hamas only climbed up to this position because of Israeli support more than a decade ago. This is Israel’s own admission. They did not want progressive groups leading the resistance, and propped up Hamas instead. I’d be happy to cite you Israeli officials saying this.

even the more moderate part of Palestine seems to condone the military push

That doesn’t mean they’re anti Semitic. The operation primarily targeted military installations, soldiers and officials. It is resistance against the Israeli state. So supporting this operation is being opposed to the Israeli state, not because they wish to evaporate all Jews. That’s ridiculous.

This situation is massively more complex than the Russo Ukraine war and there is no obvious good guy you can point to.

It is quite the opposite. Russia-Ukraine involves two States with crimes on their records, and I only side with Ukraine because Russia is the aggressor. But Ukraine is far from being a good guy. Israel-Palestine is an apartheid state against stateless people getting murdered and expelled from their lands, and their best fight is minor incursions on the border. It is very much a one-sided fight.

cyclohexane,

At least bother looking some of this stuff up…

I’m not sure which part of those statistics you think contradicts what I said. Can you please quote which part of what I said contradicts it? Your statistics confirm what I said. Go back and read what I said.

These guys seem like complete nutcases, secular or not.

Is this an argument? I am going to ignore it because I find no substance here, but if there’s something I’m missing, let me know.

Also they are by no means politically popular, as opposed to Hamas and Fatah.

They were very popular before Hamas became the only group left fighting. Check out the PLO, of which they were a part of. Many of the prominent Palestinian figures were part of PFLP as well.

It’s not bad faith at all, they literally have eradicating Israel as their mission goal.

I literally just explained to you why it’s not. Feel free to argue my points directly, rather than restate the same statement I already disproved.

Iraq wanted to kill everyone in Israel with nerve gas in the 90s, that’s why the first golf war happened

And the second gulf war happened because of their WMDs. We all know how the state department narrative was correct without any issues at all, right? Right?

Yet I dare you to look up any imagery from the last 72 hours and tell me that you prefer the approach that Palestine is taking in Gaza.

Do you want to see the Palestinian child that was burned alive by Israeli fire? I can provide you a link.

I’m not going to bother to continue

That’s good. I prefer if you don’t. It’s not a good look. Please don’t spread misinformation elsewhere either.

cyclohexane,

Your first statement of “there’s totally Christians in Palestine”

Yes it’s true. Your own links prove I am right LOL. Not only that, many figures in Palestinian resistance are Christian. Examples: George Habash, founder of the PFLP. Shireen Abu Akleh, she was a journalist that Israelis murdered last year in cold blood.

There’s an entire Wikipedia article about Palestinian Christians. You might learn something (I doubt it, you don’t seem to be the kind):

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians

nice whataboutism, bringing up the 2nd Gulf War without addressing the very real issue in the first one

I didn’t imagine you would have so much trouble understanding that the west has a record of justifying war with bullshit claims. The first gulf war was due to, supposedly, Saddam’s involvement in Kuwait and doing horrendous things. It was later proven that the woman who testified in front of the UN to justify this war was lying. More here:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

I chose not to continue arguing your other points

“I only cherry pick the arguments I may have a chance not looking stupid responding to”. I am sorry to break it to you, you look just as stupid in all the arguments, and your cherry picking is not a good look.

You said you would stop replying yet here you are. I urge you to stop wasting my time and spreading misinformation.

Last thing I’ll add: you’ve started to engage in adhom attacks. I’m going to let it pass since I personally don’t care, and imo you only embarrass yourself doing them. But if I see you doing that with anyone else in this community, I’ll have to ban you. So please keep your insulting in check.

cyclohexane,

Which part did you not understand?

cyclohexane,

Which telegrams?

cyclohexane,

This doesn’t answer the question.

cyclohexane,

I assume you mean gulf States, cause most Arab States don’t have that much oil if any. A lot of them have agricultural economy.

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