cecinestpasunbot

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cecinestpasunbot,

The US has a long track record of supporting some of the most brutal regimes all around the world if it serves their geopolitical interests. In that way its support for Israel isn’t much of an anomaly.

More specifically though, Israel serves as a base from which the US can project military power. That prevents other states in the region from taking full advantage of their natural or geographic resources.

For example, the US wants to ensure oil is traded in US dollars. That creates demand for the dollar which inflates its value relative to other currencies. In that way, US financial capital is given an advantage over the rest of the world. This arrangement isn’t necessarily ideal for oil rich countries as it essentially means some of the value of their oil is getting siphoned off. However, the threat of military intervention may keep these states in line. However, many of them have started to experiment with trading in other currencies which might make the US uneasy.

The second thing I can think of is the US wants to ensure Egypt does not use the Suez Canal as a political weapon like it has historically. In such cases, Israel has been used as proxy through which western countries invaded Egypt to try and take back control of the canal. Since the canal remains very important trade route from which the US and its allies benefit, the US needs some sort of leverage to ensure it stays open to them.

cecinestpasunbot,

They were actually banned from reddit for posting “John Brown was right” memes implying that the radical abolitionist was correct to kill slaveowners. They can be excessive and annoying but they’re certainly not fascists.

cecinestpasunbot,

I doubt the Nordic working class are receiving a meaningful share of the value stolen through imperialist means. Instead, I think the Nordic bourgeoisie are able to accumulate wealth without having to hyper exploit their local populations thanks to imperialism. This ameliorates the local class antagonisms and creates the superficial appearance that a capitalist system can maintain a stable high standard of living for the working class.

Of course, if imperialist exploitation can no longer ameliorate said antagonisms, class conflict will re-erupt in Nordic countries. The danger here is that parts of the working class may be convinced that their standard of living is predicated on imperialist conquest which is the basis for fascism. The good thing is I don’t actually think that’s true. A more reliable way for Nordic workers to maintain their standard of living would be for them to suppress the interests of their local bourgeoisie and transition to an actually socialist model.

cecinestpasunbot,

I somewhat agree. I do take issue with the notion that the Nordic working class has been bought off though. That makes it sound like they’re conscious advocates of imperialism which I don’t think is generally true. Rather I’d argue that free from hyper exploitation, they can’t develop a meaningful class consciousness. As such, it’s difficult for them to see how their long term interests are put at risk by the capitalist system and how a socialist system could maintain their high standard of living without requiring imperialism.

cecinestpasunbot,

Saying the Democrats control the republicans is silly but saying that they use the republicans as a threat to stay in power is indisputable. They literally funded pro trump candidates in republican primaries under the assumption they would be easier to beat in the general election.

cecinestpasunbot,

That makes little sense. Why would blue collar workers support Israel’s genocidal bombardment campaign? It’s not in their interest. The UAW is even calling for a ceasefire.

Also, the Biden administration can claim all day that they are in back room negotiations with Israel. However, those claims ring hollow when they’re simultaneously trying to pass bills in congress that unconditionally give Israel military aid. People see that and naturally lose faith in anything the administration says.

cecinestpasunbot,

Most places in the US developed in a similarly shitty way thanks to the logic of American capitalism. That doesn’t necessarily mean there isn’t ethnic and cultural diversity.

cecinestpasunbot,

If you ever visit China you’ll realize how silly your comment is. There are electric scooters literally everywhere. You can’t escape them. They don’t look dinky at all either and are more akin to Vespas than the standing scooters that are popular to rent in the US.

cecinestpasunbot,

If it’s not geothermal or nuclear, that energy probably came from the sun one way or another.

cecinestpasunbot,

That’s an interesting analysis. If it’s correct then it would suggest that while China has a larger economy it has yet to achieve the influence over international finance that the US currently enjoys.

Hospitals have special protection under the rules of war. Why are they in the crosshairs in Gaza? (apnews.com)

JERUSALEM (AP) — The head of surgery at Gaza’s largest and most advanced hospital held up his phone Saturday to the hammering of gunfire and artillery shelling. “Listen,” said Dr. Marwan Abu Sada as fighting raged around Shifa Hospital.

cecinestpasunbot,

Because it’s what Israeli politicians and government officials actually believe. They aren’t even quiet about it. It’s genuinely not hard to prove the genocidal intent of the Israeli government.

Unfortunately western media just tends to gloss over it all. I’m not sure if reporters can’t fathom the US supporting ethnic cleansing or if they just want to avoid the flack they’d receive by being honest. Either way, it’s unfortunate because well meaning liberals are left to assume Israel genuinely cares about stopping Hamas and aren’t using them as a pretext to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip.

cecinestpasunbot,

Calling a state an Ethnostate doesn’t mean you’re saying the population is entirely of one ethnicity. It means one ethnicity is given a privileged status above all others.

Israel was founded when Zionists purged Palestinians from their homes and forced them into Gaza and the West Bank in order to create a Jewish majority state. That makes Israel an ethnostate by definition.

cecinestpasunbot,

Ahh I see. So because Zionists haven’t been able to successfully cleanse all Palestinians from the region, Israel doesn’t count as an ethnostate. Don’t worry though because by God they’re still trying their damndest to make it happen no matter how many thousands of children they have to murder.

cecinestpasunbot,

People don’t have much recourse in the US either. The two party system just obfuscates that reality. I’d actually argue that because revolution is the only alternative to the communist party in China, the government has to be more responsive to citizen demands than the US.

cecinestpasunbot,

Things got much worse for most citizens of the USSR after it collapsed and state industry was privatized. Life expectancy dropped pretty severely. It shouldn’t be surpassing that anyone who suffered under that economic collapse would tell you the USSR was better.

cecinestpasunbot,

The existence of state run social services and regulations does not mean a country is not fully capitalist if you’re using Marx’s understanding of what capitalism is. Additionally I think there is a misconception that communism depends on altruistic behavior. It really doesn’t.

cecinestpasunbot, (edited )

Tell me you haven’t read Marx without telling me you haven’t read Marx.

Seriously though, Marx is like the guy you go read if you want a ruthless critique of idealism. I’d go so far as to say it’s the reason his theories became so popular in the first place.

cecinestpasunbot, (edited )

I think what people don’t fully understand is that Marxism is meant to be scientific. That means that there will likely be many imperfect and failed attempts at building a socialist society before one comes along that is stable enough to outlast outside interference from capitalist states.

As such, most people I know who like the USSR are also it’s biggest critiques. Unfortunately, there is so much misinformation about the USSR that most discussions about it online are just about delineating truth from propaganda.

cecinestpasunbot,

This is under the assumption that there is a surplus in society that can satisfy the needs of everyone. Marx’s point is that technological development and industrialization could make this possible. As such, the need to motivate people to work harder is not necessary.

Prior to such a surplus existing, the distribution of goods would be more akin to “From each according to their ability, to each according their contribution”. That ensures people are motivated to maximize their productivity as long as that’s still necessary.

cecinestpasunbot,

You’re right, nobody has ever cared about Marx. No communist revolutionaries anywhere have ever called themselves Marxists. If they did, then their projects must have surely collapsed by now. That’s because Marx was very clear that his political theories were not made to be adaptable or revisable based on new information and changing conditions. No, that would be far too scientific for someone we can agree was clearly an idealist.

cecinestpasunbot,

Communist theory explicitly tries to dispel the idea that political and economic structures are separate things. As such, communists intend to create democratic structures that can distribute resources in place of undemocratic market relationships which empower owners of capital.

Liberalism on the other hand believe that market relationships are inherently democratic. Therefore they may think that any attempt to replace them with a planned economy are undemocratic regardless of how such planning would be decided upon.

cecinestpasunbot,

Yes, most communists and especially Marxists believe communism must necessarily be fully democratic. It’s certainly true though that there is much debate about what types of democratic structures to use. Although most communists would probably agree that it would require a lot of trial and error to find an ideal system.

That said, communists generally seek to disenfranchise owners of capital from the decision making process up until the point they no longer exist as a class. Therefore in the transition to communism, full democracy may not be realized. This is the given reason for why Marxist Leninist countries generally suppress opposition parties but may allow for political affinity organizations around identity groups that suffer under capitalism, ie worker, youth, women’s organizations, etc.

cecinestpasunbot,

Well Marx used the term “dictatorship of the proletariat” to describe how a transition would work in opposition to what he saw as the “dictatorship of the bourgeoisie”.

However, if you’re talking about people like Stalin or Mao, you’ll find self proclaimed communists with a wide variety of opinions on the subject. That’s in part because gets difficult to sort propaganda from the truth of the matter. I also mean both western and communist propaganda. To have a guy going by “Joe Steel” as the leader of your republic of socialist workers councils isn’t exactly a subtle attempt to get buy in from working class people.

cecinestpasunbot,

What’s the difference?

cecinestpasunbot,

I think that’s usually only an issue if someone doesn’t know the history of settler movements worldwide which are almost always violent and genocidal. Granted in post colonial countries that history gets pretty severely white washed.

cecinestpasunbot,

I believe Netflix actually has a website with the timelines for each character so you don’t get confused. IIIRC you can tell it what episode you’re on so you won’t get any spoilers.

cecinestpasunbot,

I believe the writers actually wrote much of the story line for the entire show before filming the first season. As such, it’s probably one the most internally consistent time travel stories. That said, I do think season 3 gets bogged down by all of the exposition needed for the story to actually make any sense.

cecinestpasunbot, (edited )

They’re not wrong. The US worked very closely with fascists post WW2. High ranking Nazi officials were recruited to run NATO, NASA, and work in many other agencies. It’s not limited to Nazi’s either but other fascists as well. In Japan the US helped a war criminal become prime minister. This guy was literally in Tojo’s cabinet and was a signatory to the declaration of war against the US. Partnering with fascists is something the US still does to this day.

This history isn’t hidden either and the US doesn’t really deny it. However, it’s not exactly something Americans are taught in school.

cecinestpasunbot,

They didn’t claim the world was run by Nazis though. They said people with similar or related ideologies exist in the highest levels of every western government. That’s undeniably true.

cecinestpasunbot,

Explicitly imply is an oxymoron. You can’t accuse someone of making a claim they didn’t make.

I think I see where you’re confused though. Nazism is not the only ethno-nationalist or fascist ideology. Settler colonialism is also not equivalent to fascism or Nazism. These things are related though and people who subscribe to similar ideologies will likely be more sympathetic to Nazism. Thus they’re less likely to take neo-Nazis seriously leading to an actual Nazi problem. However, that doesn’t make them Nazis themselves.

cecinestpasunbot,

You’re right, logic didn’t start the current conflict. The British did when they disarmed Palestinians and armed and trained Zionist paramilitaries. This enabled the Zionists to forcibly evict hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes in a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign. The pace at which Palestinians are being displaced has slowed but it has never stopped. While Palestinian resistance movements have received outside support it pales in comparison to the military support Israel receives from the US and other western countries. This conflict is unfortunately very one sided.

cecinestpasunbot,

Okay so you’re just going to ignore the hundreds of years of relative peace in the region under Ottoman rule immediately preceding WWI?

cecinestpasunbot,

“Got control” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. You can’t just paper over British involvement and the hundreds of Palestinian villages that were destroyed in a mass ethnic cleansing campaign by Zionists. This was clearly a dramatic escalation in any religious or ethnic violence that occurred in the region as compared to years prior. You can’t just ignore that and expect anyone to think you’re discussing the issue in good faith.

Speaking of which, Palestine under Ottoman rule was more peaceful. The wiki articles you linked don’t even reference massacres happening in Palestine. So your point is moot.

cecinestpasunbot,

That’s all you can come up with? An event that happened 288 years before the events of 1948? That’s supposed to disprove what I said about relative peace in the region for hundreds of years? You have to be kidding me.

Also saying the British had no role to play is just an outright lie. Who controlled Palestine from 1920-1948 I wonder? Could it have been an empire know for stoking sectarian conflict in order to further their own agenda, most famously in 1947 with the partitioning of India? This isn’t rocket science. It’s historical fact.

That said, the war crimes Israel is committing, the children they are killing, the collective punishment they are enforcing right now are not a rational response to Hamas. You can’t tried to murder and ethnically cleanse a people from their land and expect them to not be radicalized in the process. What Israel has been doing, what it is currently doing, will only make things worse for everyone including their own citizens.

If you can’t see that then you’re either blinded by propaganda or your own bloodlust.

cecinestpasunbot,

What you’re describing is genocide plain and simple. If I really have to explain to you why genocide is not a solution there really is no hope for you.

cecinestpasunbot,

Bush is objectively worse on every level. They’re both terrible and the people in their administrations were both soulless gouls. However, Bush’s administration was far more effective in carrying out their repugnant agenda.

People will say Trump tried to steal an election. That’s true. But Bush ACTUALLY stole the election in 2000. Bush also gave us 2 wars which killed in total over a million people and led to the rise of ISIS. Trump’s admin tried it’s best to get the US into a war with Iran but couldn’t make it happen. Bush’s administration also helped get the US into the Great Recession from which the American working class has never truly recovered. Trump doesn’t hold a candle to the kind of damage Bush inflicted on the US and world.

cecinestpasunbot,

Okay but Bush actually stole a presidential election.

cecinestpasunbot,

I mean the Taliban literally offered up Bin Laden but Bush rejected the offer and instead chose to invade. 20 years later and hundreds of thousands there’s nothing to show for it. It’s not like there weren’t people critical of the invasion at the time.

cecinestpasunbot,

They offered him up to be tried in a third country and were open to negotiating. That’s still offering him up. The invasion just ensured that the Taliban and even Al Queda had plenty of new recruits. Bin Laden also remained at large for almost another decade. I’d consider it an abject failure if it wasn’t clear that the Bush administration didn’t really give a damn about their stated objectives.

Instead they just wanted to extend the US’s military influence into Central Asia and make a quick buck of military contracts in the process.

cecinestpasunbot,

I think their administrations likely had equally bad intentions. The incompetence of Trump’s administration just means they acted more erratically. They were also much worse at getting press on their side and worse at covering up their actions.

cecinestpasunbot,

Bush sued to stop a recount in Florida that would have likely led to Gore winning the 2000 presidential election. A conservative Supreme Court majority sided with Bush and stopped the recount. It makes Trump’s whole “STOP THE COUNT!” look amateurish in comparison. Bush actually was able to stop the count and got away with it.

Gore didn’t want Americans to start questioning the legitimacy of our democracy so he conceded. The rally around the flag effect after 9/11 helped quash any further criticisms of how Bush came to office.

cecinestpasunbot,

I think it’s more a reflection of the media people consume. It’s easy for people to forget Bush’s war crimes when he’s been rehabilitated in part to make Trump look like an exceptional threat.

cecinestpasunbot,

I believe so. However, the NSA’s mass surveillance programs still are authorized under section 702 of FISA which is another Bush era law.

GAZA: 3,195 children killed in three weeks surpasses annual number of children killed in conflict zones since 2019 (www.savethechildren.net)

Since October 7, more than 3,257 children have been reported killed, including at least 3,195 in Gaza, 33 in the West Bank, and 29 in Israel, according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza and Israel respectively. The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict...

cecinestpasunbot,

I would start by looking into how the Israeli state was formed in 1948. More specifically look up the Nakba. That will give you context for everything that comes after.

cecinestpasunbot,

That’s fair. It’s hard to get the number right when you can’t clear the rubble. Maybe Israel could help by ending their bombing campaign and blockade. Then people in Gaza could get an accurate picture of just how many civilians and children were murdered by the IDF.

cecinestpasunbot,

Are you implying that Israeli forces are clearing rubble to help find dead civilians they they murdered in cold blood? That’s so laughably absurd. Of course they have to clears the roads to the bombed out cities they are now attempting to invade with force.

cecinestpasunbot,

I guess if all of that is true and it’s not just IDF propaganda, it totally makes up for the thousands of murdered children…

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