NoneOfUrBusiness

@[email protected]

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

Israeli army executes an elderly Palestinian after using him in propaganda campaign about its ‘safe corridor’ in Gaza (euromedmonitor.org)

Geneva – The Israeli army’s execution of an elderly Palestinian after using him in a propaganda campaign promoting its “safe corridor” in Gaza was strongly condemned in a statement released by Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor today....

NoneOfUrBusiness,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro-Mediterranean_Human_Rights_Monitor

This is your "highly non-objective organization". At this point you need sources. And let's face it, Hamas was right to tell civilians to not evacuate. Do you have the slightest idea how messy a complete evacuation of the north Gaza strip would be like? Especially into the also overcrowded, starving south sid Hint: It would be a much worse bloodbath than what we're seeing now. Not to mention many people already evacuated south, found themselves being bombed there too, didn't find shelter and the like, and went back.

"Evacuate Northern Gaza" was a moronic take a month ago and it's still moronic now. Also I'll need to see those reports you're talking about.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Just in case anybody thinking Israel actually cares about civilians.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

While that guy is too extreme, the IDF definitely needs to get the Wehrmacht treatment.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Support for ceasefire = against Israel. There are 2/3 for.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Finally cracks are emerging in this ridiculous status quo.

Hospitals have special protection under the rules of war. Why are they in the crosshairs in Gaza? (apnews.com)

JERUSALEM (AP) — The head of surgery at Gaza’s largest and most advanced hospital held up his phone Saturday to the hammering of gunfire and artillery shelling. “Listen,” said Dr. Marwan Abu Sada as fighting raged around Shifa Hospital.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Israel doesn't wanna wipe out Gazans; that's just unrealistic. However, a sizeable part of the Israeli government is very much fine with expelling them.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

This is true in general, but this time they're literally in Israel's crosshairs. These people are dying to sniper fire.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Not necessarily. There are laws that explicitly and implicitly discriminate against Arab Israelis.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Yeah not saying otherwise. Just countering the point that Gazans aren't being wiped out so it's fine.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Although with the tank kills Hamas has somehow been achieving,

In modern urban warfare, it's not very hard to down tanks with homemade (or I guess tunnel-made) rockets.

NoneOfUrBusiness,
NoneOfUrBusiness,
NoneOfUrBusiness,

Guess which side rejected that though?

Israel? I wrote a big-ass comment talking about this before so I'll just copy and paste from it.

Oslo accords: Negotiations were progressing until Rabin got fucking assassinated by a Zionist terrorist, at a time where the Israeli right was actively calling for his assassination. Netanyahu, who came in his place, called the whole thing off.

Camp David: The then-Israeli foreign affairs minister stated he wouldn't have accepted the offer if he were in Arafat's place. The Israeli offer was that bad, and they weren't willing to compromise.

The 2008 Olmert offer was mostly behind closed doors so nobody actually knows what was going on (both sides blame each others for not following up on negotiations), but from what we do know the offer included keeping an unacceptably large part of the West Bank (about 10% by the Palestinian calculation).

2014 offer: The American envoy stated that the blame for the failure of the negotiations (not an offer, since Israel didn't actually offer anything) lied squarely on Israel, and specifically Netenyahu. That's how uncooperative Israel was.

And that should be all peace negotiations with Israel since the Oslo accords. The idea that Palestinians rejected peace is pure Israeli propaganda.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Now there is a conflict with no good solution available for Israel.

There is, but it'd require gasp giving up on their expansionist ambitions, and the only one willing to do that was Rabin, who got assassinated for it.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

As long Hamas is there, there is a security threat and Hamas can hide behind civilians. But even if Israel dismantles the current Hamas structures, in a few years they or something similar will be back.

If the Israeli occupation of Palestine stops, Hamas will either disappear on its own, mellow out into a normal government or become just another terrorist organization like the IRA in Ireland. That's usually how it goes.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Israel stated the war 17 years ago, minimum.

*18. The blockade started in late 2005. Just clarifying because Israel likes to claim that the blockade started in response to the scary Hamas government launching rocket attacks.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

If you build your defense in urban environment you are supposed to evacuate the civilians. This is standard for any half competent army.

To where? Gaza is small enough as is, and the whole strip is being bombed by Israel.

Also, Hamas isn't an army; they're a resistance force. Gaza doesn't have a proper army, which is why they have to resort to asymmetrical warfare.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

How long will the mellowing out take and how many Israeli civilians will die during that?

I mean we can look at the Irish government for inspiration. When you sign a treaty to end a century conflict you tend to be pressured by your people to keep it.

There is no perceivable way for Gaza to function as a independent part of Palestine independent of either Israel or Egypt. So what’s the plan here?

The Gazan economy used to mainly rely on cash crop exports, but we all know what happened there.

Just closing the border and largely keeping out there is what Israel did the last two decades and that is exactly what ended up in an unprecedented terror attack on Israeli civilians.

Just closing the border? At this point I find it hard to believe you're discussing this in good faith, but anyway no, that's not what Israel is doing. Gaza is subject to a land, air and sea blockade that makes it so, in short, Gaza isn't allowed to have any contact with the outside world unless Israel approves it. That's not keeping out what is there, that's a military occupation.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Watch someone tells you this is somehow because Hamas uses human shields.

More seriously it's interesting how the Zionists are all silent when it comes to the West Bank. I wonder how they justify that.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Welcome to the West Bank. Or, in other words, welcome to what Gaza was punished for fighting against.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Well, kind of. Settlers have been a thing since the 70s and it's always been like this. It likely did start as kids gloves (or rather because the poor Israelis are holocaust victims and can do no wrong), but for everyone in the loop settler means "genocidal Zionist maniac stealing Palestinian homes".

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Gotta add about a hundred more greats, but you got the spirit.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Meh, WWIII probably won't have a good guy anyway.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Even assuming that's the case (it's not), how many thousands of Palestinians need to die for it to happen?

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Hopefully now nobody thinks Israel cares about those hostages.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

The fact that you're calling everyone pro-Palestine Islamist says a lot about you.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

I mean they'd probably said if they did.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Surrender and do what? Get genocided like the West Bank?

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Yes, very much yes. Hamas has signed permanent ceasefires before and followed them until it became clear Israel had no intention of upholding its end of the deal. Basically Hamas is currently rebelling against the blockade. Lift that and the whole Gaza side ends. Of course they'll just ramp up their activities in the West Bank instead because those people are also being genocided, so something needs to be done there too.

The genie is basically hitting you and begging to be put back in the bottle.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Hamas needs to be removed, yes, but they're not a tumor; they're a virus. To quote Bassem Youssef, you don't cure a virus by hitting the patient with a sledgehammer.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

They don't want to rule it after the war.

They are military occupying it, though, and are considering doing more than that.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

For now. There's no way they won't give it the West Bank treatment. Remember that these are the same people who had to be removed at gunpoint from Gaza in 2005.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Rebelling against a blockade by slaughtering civilians is still awful abd terribly misguided though.

Yeah, true enough, but oppression breeds extremism and Gazans (and West Bankers) have seen a lot of oppression. It's not necessarily rational, but yeah, when your already horrible life is destroyed because an Israeli airstrike bombed your house and killed your family, most people will be out for blood. If Palestinians get freedom, Hamas and similar organizations will probably be reduced to fringe organizations instead of resistance movements with large amounts of public support. We've seen it in the Troubles.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

You should check before you copy paste, so lemme just:

Everything before 1949: The idea that Israel had a right to Palestinian land is itself wrong. A two-state solution is the most realistic solution now, but before the war it should've been one state encompassing all of Palestine. A two-state solution necessarily meant that a number of Palestinians would be condemned to expulsion or a life of apartheid (which both happened and are happening in post-war Israel). And anyway this was more than 70 years ago; almost nobody who remembers that is alive today.

The UN resolutions are things Israel objects to. How do these even belong on a list of peace offers from Israel when Israel actively rejects them (particularly the 1949, since it calls for the right of return of Palestinian refugees).

The 1978 offer from Sadat was Yasser Arafat's greatest mistake and part of what led Palestine to the current situation, no argument there, but calling it an Israeli offer is disingenuous at best and misinformation at worst.

1994: Bruh negotiations were progressing until Rabin got fucking assassinated by a Zionist terrorist, at a time where the Israeli right was actively calling for his assassination. How you (or well, the guy who wrote this) managed to blame this on Palestine is beyond me.

2000 and 2001 (they're the same thing): The then-Israeli foreign affairs minister stated he wouldn't have accepted the offer if he were in Arafat's place. It was that bad.

The Olmert offer was mostly behind closed doors so nobody actually knows what was going on (both sides blame each others for not following up on negotiations), but from what we do know the offer included keeping an unacceptably large part of the West Bank (about 10% by the Palestinian calculation).

Are you seriously buying Netenyahu wanting peace? The guy who supports settlements and goes on and on about how a Palestinian state must not be allowed to exist? LMFAO. Give me an example of one of those offers, if you will.

2014: The American envoy stated that the blame for the failure of the negotiations (not an offer, since Israel didn't actually offer anything) lied squarely on Israel, and specifically Netenyahu. That's how uncooperative Israel was.

And about Palestinian offers: How do you expect Palestinians to offer peace? "We want peace with these terms" "No". It's Israel who holds all the power; they're the only ones who can offer peace.

So with that, if anyone was actually buying this shit, this is why this is complete and utter nonsense.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

And? Collective punishment is a warcrime.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Yes he can actually, or at least he can stop Israeli bombings. There's precedent for it.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Reagan in the siege of Beirut. He literally stopped the bombing of Western Beirut with a phone call.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

I mean they'd probably love to do something about it but the security council has three (maybe 2 if France doesn't interfere) pro-Israel veto powers so it ain't happening.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

What do you mean? It was sent to Israel's favorite open-air concentration camp.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

TBF while not voting for Biden is a very bad move, I can understand making a literal genocide your single issue.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Nope, but there are people who will just not vote. I'm not saying it's right, but Biden's willingness to be accomplice to genocide is damaging many people's faith in the democratic process. Hopefully they vote for Bernie in the primaries instead of just being mad about it on the internet.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Look I think Biden's willingness to be accomplice to genocide is nothing short of disgusting, but let's not pretend Trump would've done a better job.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

bernie is a bastard who supports the genocide,

What? He's what of the few US senators who demanded the US push for a ceasefire.

NoneOfUrBusiness, (edited )

You should read the whole thing.

Edit: He also said this:

“The immediate task right now is to end the bombing,” Sanders said Sunday, “to end the horrific humanitarian disaster, to build – go forward with the entire world for a two-tier, two-state solution to the crisis to give the Palestinian people hope.”

NoneOfUrBusiness,

He said he can't see a permanent ceasefire holding up with Hamas, not that he doesn't see the point of a ceasefire. He said this later:

“The immediate task right now is to end the bombing,” Sanders said Sunday, “to end the horrific humanitarian disaster, to build – go forward with the entire world for a two-tier, two-state solution to the crisis to give the Palestinian people hope.”

NoneOfUrBusiness,

The way things are going it doesn't seem like he's going to win. Most people don't like being accomplice to genocide.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

"Yeah go ahead" is still supporting genocide.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

"Please stop because support is eroding" and "Stop or I won't support you" are completely different statements with different meanings and implications.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • random
  • uselessserver093
  • Food
  • aaaaaaacccccccce
  • test
  • CafeMeta
  • testmag
  • MUD
  • RhythmGameZone
  • RSS
  • dabs
  • KamenRider
  • TheResearchGuardian
  • KbinCafe
  • Socialism
  • oklahoma
  • SuperSentai
  • feritale
  • All magazines