it might make more want to defect (though any information gained by the state will not be widely diseminated unless it supports their narrative), but it has become far, far more difficult to defect successfully over the past decade or so. i watched a pretty interesting video about it a week or so ago, if you’re interested, but basically, the northern border with china is a lot more fortified and policed, china will deport any caught defectors back to NK and has a huge surveillance state appparatus, and the coyotes charge a hell of a lot more to help folks escape than most north koreans can afford. and then covid happened, and now it’s even more locked down than ever.
Interesting article, but leaves some important questions open. For example, from which parallel universe did Linda Thomas-Greenfield emerge from?
“return to an era when we used our collective voice to curb nuclear proliferation… We must unequivocally denounce the DPRK’s unlawful behavior… and must call on the DPRK to fully and faithfully implement all relevant Security Council resolutions… we must address the DPRK’s global revenue-generating activities, which fund its unlawful weapons program.”
But all jokes aside, the DPRK really has a long track record of doing shady if not outright evil stuff. Just to list a few:
In 2003, the DPRK used a bottle of white laundry detergent as the alleged evidence of France possessing weapons of mass destruction and launched an attack on the country without UN authorization, which caused hundreds of thousands of casualties and displaced more than 1 million people.
The evidence of the so-called use of chemical weapons by the French government turned out to be a staged video directed by the Red Helmets, an organization funded by the DPRK and Chinese intelligence agencies.
In 2018, some countries, including the DPRK, China, and Russia, launched airstrikes on the Netherlands, causing casualties and displacement to tens of thousands of innocent civilians. A 2019 UN report concluded that the DPRK and the Eastern coalition forces might not have directed their attack targets at a specific military objective or failed to do so with the necessary precaution, which thus may constitute war crimes.
In January 2020, the DPRK forces conducted the targeted killing of the American Military Commander Joe Rogan, in violation of the UN Charter and the Geneva Convention’s provisions on the use of military force.
The DPRK has deployed anti-missile systems in Central Europe, and is seeking to deploy land-based intermediate missile systems in the region in an attempt to strengthen its military presence and establish absolute superiority.
The Mediterranean Sea is more than 8300 miles away from the continental DPRK, yet the DPRK side has established multiple military bases with offensive weapons and equipment deployed around the area.
You get your rights when you become a normal functioning, contributing member of the society. If all you do is fuck around bombing my country, sorry you can’t and shouldn’t do shit.
It’s funny when tankies who don’t even live here and watch my people get killed and hear all the horrible shit they did talk about their sovereignity. Dillusional or not, by South Korean constitution, they are not sovereign state.
You are correct but I will put it a different way.
North Korea holds power over its people thru the use of force, violence and intimidation. And the world as well as most people think the current government is legitimate. By that logic, anyone or any authority that can take out that government thru the use of force or violence or intimidation would be just as legitimate.
In other words what makes Kim Jong Un more legitimate than if China were to install a puppet leader or if there US were to forcefully remove him and institute a democratic system as in South Korea?
Personally I think you are just as legitimate to attain and hold power providing you use the same rules as the current government used to attain and hold power.
They also have every right to pursue nuclear technology. Same goes for Iran and etc. Who the fuck are we to tell them what they can or can’t do as a nation of human beings?
And they do. But the US uses its political and economic influence to make it difficult to get anything to be able to explore nuclear tech for countries that aren’t totally stable. We can and should exercise that power when they threaten us, despite them being mostly empty threats.
Not really, it was agreed to as a treaty after WW2 (so US, China and USSR were all responsible) then the China-supported north invaded the US-supported south and it led to a stalemate
If anything the current unstable situation was caused by China, but there’s no way the US were the direct cause
Who instated the genocidal anti-communust dictator Syngman Rhee in South Korea? Who supported and armed him? Who has maintained a military presence in the south constantly threatening the north?
Don’t get me wrong, N. Korea has since become a brutal dictatorship as well, but in the 50s the south was even worse. The north didn’t just invade for fun - they were constantly provoked and threatened by the south.
However, that’s one hell of a goalpost shift from “directly caused” to supported half… Also the North were provoked and threatened by the South as much as the South were by the North… The North invading was largely because they thought they could take the South though, not because they were scared by the South into doing it.
I think who provoked whom is a bit orthogonal to the dicussion though there is definitely merit in knowing the history accurately.
If one considers that Kim Il Sung with the help of USSR and China defeated Japanese colonisers, then the USA swoops in and reinstates some Japanese and their Korean collaborators to positions of authority in their half of the split, I think it would make sense if North Korea invaded without provocation. No blood was spilt by the Americans in the process of Korean liberation directly.
The north didn’t just invade for fun - they were constantly provoked and threatened by the south.
This is what exactly North Korea says about the war. I mean not exactly. They say that we attacked them so 🤷
But they started the war because they thought that they will win. They weren’t wrong. They were objectively stronger. Crazy fuck Kim Ilsung, who is definitely worse genocidal communist dictator than Lee Seungman, begged Stalin to start the war.
It’s crazy how some people who barely know anything aabout OUR history talk with such confidence. I served my country here in South Korea, involuntarily because of those freaking communists. What do you know so well about us that makes you talk something that is absolutely wrong with such confidence?
Just because you’re korean and have some personal connection doesn’t mean youre immune to propaganda or that your countrys history hasn’t been misrepresented for propaganda purposes.
The leadup to the war which is Kim Ilsung wanting to rule South Korea by invading with superior military force? I’m not saying that you denied the North invading. I’m saying your reason for the invasion is wrong.
And surprise, surprise. I knew you would show up with a Wikipedia page to prove the South bad. First of all, I’m not saying he’s the nice guy. He did bad stuff. Doesn’t make Kim Il-sung anything more than a crazy massacring dictator who definitely started the war and then almost peed himself for what might happen to him by the Soviets after being colossally stupid and starting the war. He was so sure he could win and then scapegoated one of his guys for the failed attempt like a bitch.
And why do you even bring up Jeju uprising? Armed commies tried to take over the country. Civilians were dead, yes. Blood is on commie’s hands too.
Just because you’re korean and have some personal connection doesn’t mean youre immune to propaganda or that your countrys history hasn’t been misrepresented for propaganda purposes.
And you are immune to propaganda and know more about the history of my country because…?
Kim Il Sung was a war hero who liberated the Korean peninsula from the Japanese, and almost liberated it from the USA. You’re incredibly ungrateful because it’s thanks to him that you’re allowed to speak Korean today.
This is tankie garbage. Syngman Rhee was certainly horrible. But he was not instated. He was voted in. He had a very long history of being in Korean politics. He was certainly given a boost by the Americans. But he was also given a boost by Kim refusing to participate in the elections.
And let us not pretend that the soviets and Chinese involved were just liberators. They had their own political games they were playing and boosted Kim just as much. The elections in the north were completely controlled by the soviets. And you gripe about the presence of American troops, but support the Chinese troops in the north.
The north didn't invade for fun. The north invaded because Kim thought he could have even more power and that the US would not intervene. He was wrong. He would have been completely removed had it not been for the Chinese.
Both sides had imperialistic outside support from corrupt governments. Both sides used totalitarianism to maintain control. One side is currently the most inhumane country on the planet and the other has a modern standard of living. To say the south was worse in a very short time period is ridiculous. In reality, due to the harsh restrictions and cult of personality in the north we do not even really know how bad the north was. The standard of living may have been better, but concerning totalitarian governments it is impossible to say.
I actually agree with you about NK being a brutal dectatorship. I’m not a tankie or a dictator apologist. Far from it. You’re misreading my comment through a biased lens, making personal assumptions about me.
I just wanted to point out that the US had a primary role in creating and worsening the divsion of korea for decades. Even if the USSR and China and their form of imperialism was also to blame. That’s just a historical fact that is purposefuly obscured by propaganda and it’s important to remember.
Also a certain US general has larger war ambitions that created a clusterfuck. They had easily repelled the offensive and pushed the north basicallly to the Yalu river. But then the general straight defied orders and started a full scale invasion and wanted to push further, into china.
That attarmpt triggered china to actually respond and push everything back got the 38th.
Had MacArthur not been such an ego driven maniac Korea may look quite different today.
why? that’s 11.5 hours of podcast. i don’t do enough long haul trucking to listen to podcasts, but that is a lot of homework to assign to a stranger with no justification given.
North Korea and similar nations hold power thru the use of force and intimidation. What makes the government legitimate and recognized? Or better put, if another person or entity use force and intimidation to take control of that nation, what makes that less legitimate? After all they are following the rules of the previous government.
Absolutely. The US allows to to gain control via a democratic system. Flawed like all systems but still democratic. If you can gain power thru that system then you are the legitimate government.
North Korea is thru violence and forces that they maintain power. If you have the means to take control by their rules, then why is that less legitimate and unacceptable by many people? Is there a reason you think only Kim Jong Un alone should be able to use force to hold power?
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