We must demise EU. Go back to our sovereignty. This institution is not serving us. UA war has exacerbated racism, now this wildcard given to the zionist entity is even more disgusting.
The last bit of sympathy the west had for Muslims vanished after 9/11. The US helped them out as much as it benefited them in Afghanistan against the Russians, and we had a last hurrah for Kosovo when they were being massacred by the Serbs.
But that’s gone now. You’ve gone from slightly insular neighbours, to terrifying beardy men with hooks for hands who hate our way of life. That’s Bin Laden’s legacy.
Western support for Israel is far from unanimous, but our indifference to Palestine is. Israel could bomb Gaza to dust and bulldoze it into the sea, and at this point the most you’ll hear from us is a stern “steady on lads”.
I don’t know who exactly the “we” and “you” are referring to in your comment. But the Irish have been long been supporters of the Palestinian people no doubt due to their experience during the Troubles. I’d say the British people (not necessarily the government) support Palestine too. My brother has been to a number of pro-Palestine marches in the UK before this latest escalation of violence.
We sure confused the Nazi Party with all Germans back in 1940s though. How many Palestinian uprising or public demonstrations against Hamas has there been in the last 50 years? In anywhere?
Palestinian refugees in Europe were reported as being ecstatic about the massacres, with only worry being that Israel might strike back.
It was funded by Netanyahu and the Mossad against left secular PLO on purpose - this is indeed like a 911 situation as he says; it’s literally blowback and furthermore likely intentionally allowed to happen given what we’ve heard from the Egyptians about prior warning to Israel which they ignored (Israel confirmed that they received this intelligence).
Actually the big forces carving out lands for them completely irresponsibly like they’re all the same has doomed them to be in a state of war for as long as they exist.
Religion exacarbates the problem and creates extremism but violence would very well exist without it.
Hamas has supporters because they are the only one who fight. If tomorrow, Hamas disappears, there will be another group that Palestinians would support and another and another until there are no reasons for the Palestinians to resist
you don’t need to like them or anything (this is not liberalism and freedom of association is not real), our morals or opinions can’t stop the mechanism that is taking place in the place
It’s been 17 years since the last election. Assuming only 18 and up could vote, that means only people current around 34 and up could vote. So the bulk of Palestinians didn’t even have a chance to vote in that election. Not to mention that they were given the choice between a corrupt faction (Fatah) and a possible less corrupt faction (Hamas).
Conveniently, the Palestinian government is denying all citizens the right to vote because those who live in Jerusalem would not be included. It helps Hamas keep power while pinning blame elsewhere.
They scheduled one for last year to get on Biden’s good side, but that never happened.
I am so afraid this message is getting lost. There has been a deliberate push to paint this latest incident to be the reason that neighborhoods had to be flattened and civilians slaughtered.
Sure but you try being killed and kicked out of your homes. I’m sure you would not like the people who are doing it either. Israel has created this mess.
People forget Israel is the one with the power and creating this issue. If Israel actually backs off and treats Palestine as at least human, then I think (and hope) most people will see that Hamas needs to be destroyed as they are a terrorist group.
Hamas is the only group in this world standing up for the Palestinian people, so I would support them too, we’re I locked up in that open air prison, my family and friends being constantly murdered for profit.
Yes, we must understand that not only do Gazan Palestinians as a majority support Hamas, but Hamas is a force for good and they are correct for doing so. Sure, after decolonization, start fighting for a better representative, but for now Hamas is the best shot they have at not being genocided.
This same framework is used every time there is a broad movement which chooses, with good reason, for a strong group which can accomplish their goals. “Socialism is fine but Stalin did it bad” but then the purity fetish prevents the original goal from ever being achieved. Don’t bother convincing people socialism is good but Stalin bad. No Stalin is good and so I socialism.
To be clear, because reading it again gave me some unclarity, I absolutely defend Stalin because he was good, not just as a rhetorical strategy. Just that even if he could’ve been better, he was the best possible and denigrating him denigrates socialism every time. Real critique is fine (“75% good of course”) but painting him as a problem as a person cannot be removed form socialism. Hamas is doing decolonization, and denigrating them is denigrating decolonization
You should read a goddamn book about any of these topics or begone ye LIB
Edit: ah shit I’m outside of Hexbear. Ok then let’s engage a bit here. What about these things seems contradictory to you? That there is an active genocide for about 100 years in Palestine or that Stalin is good?
I mean if you live in a country controlled by a terrorist group that kills anyone who is not their side, and someone goes to your door and asks if you support them… What would you say?
It’s easy to dismiss this issue by thinking they have the same freedom of speech as we do in the west, and they can have political opinions without any repercussion.
If by “done more” you mean “gotten civilians killed” and by “aid” you mean “militant religious zealotry”, then you’re absolutely correct. Otherwise, eat a dick you terrorist bootlicker goon.
Really makes you think about why Hamas is so radicalized, doesn’t it? It’s not like you can pull a Muslim out of a hat and radicalize them. People in a stable, healthy, and fair socioeconomic position do not see violence as an answer. People who live under constant oppression, inequality, and fear do.
I don’t think any sane person is justifying the horrors committed by Hamas. But they seem to be somewhat logical consequences to the last 30 (60?) years of fuckery in the area.
Israel has been forced into existence and had to be extra tough to continue to exist when all its neighbours were looking for a quick genocide, Gaza is basically an open sky prison, the whole world is toying with the concepts of religion and nationalism in the area, everybody in the area is getting increasingly radicalised, major powers have been having proxy wars around here, politicians are playing 4D snooker to stay in power by any means necessary… The list goes on and on
Source BBC News on the hostage situation “The focus appears to be on a swap involving women and children - including Israelis and other nationals - in an exchange for Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails.”
Even if that was the intention, there’s witness accounts of people being raped and tortured before being murdered. We have videos of women with bloodied crotches being paraded. There’s a video of men sitting and spitting on a dead woman’s body. Nothing justifies that
Say that to Israel. The average age of the population in Gaza is 18. Unless there was a population boom of unprecedented proportions 18 years ago. (There wasn’t) Something seriously wrong is going on.
I don’t support Hamas’s attack. But Israel isn’t the victim. The people of Palestine and even Israel are the victims. And ultimately, the government of Israel is the aggressor. They could stop this. But they don’t. They just make excuses and dehumanize the Palestinians. Then act surprised when they get the response they want.
Of note: The blockade of Gaza is going on for a good 16 years, now. About half of Gazans grew up under that regime and they’re just about reaching fighting age now, already having gone through “what might I possibly be in the future” age and, well, there’s not exactly many options are there.
Exactly. Regardless of who started this. At some point someone’s going to have to be the bigger person. And unfortunately that can literally only be israel. And they are absolutely refusing. No matter how good or bad people in guys that are Palestinians in general behave. They are just counted phones to Israel and many other Middle Eastern powers.
No. They really don’t. It’s pretty fucked up what Hamas just did. But it didn’t come from a vacuum. Those people and their families have lived there for centuries. Before a bunch of Western powers came in occupied, and then decided to kick them out of their own territories. Off their own lands. Give it to people who hadn’t been there in living memory at the very best. Violence begets violence and it’s been that way ever since the start of this situation. Unfortunately however. Israel is going to have to be the bigger person here. Because they’re not the ones trapped in a blockade of Israel’s design with the help of other Middle Eastern Nations.
This is the second thread I’ve seen today with your awful takes. Probably worth a block, but I don’t believe in it. Just know that you’re super fucking wrong.
And the irony is that Israel allowed Hamas to be funded by Arabic countries 25 years ago when it was a way to weaken Arafat and the PLO. Everything in this area is fucked beyond parody. No authority on either side has any idea about morality.
This part always makes me feel ambivalent about the Israelites in the conflict. Israeli citizens are complicit victims, and that’s a contradiction but it’s also true. Civilians are getting hurt and dying and that’s not okay. However those same Israeli citizens are also supporting a basically genocidal government. Thousands of guidanceless rockets were fired at Isreal, are they expected not to respond? Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been victimized for their entire lives, are they expected not to respond?
If you’re just born in Tel Aviv or Gaza City, I don’t think you should be blamed for these military things. Maybe you support Hamas or Otzma Yehudit, but you’re kind of a product of your environment, and if tangential support is all you do you’re still a bystander. Maybe not a great example of humanity, but a bystander none the less.
I would have to be pretty truly desperate to consider aliyah myself, even before there was a war. I guess I could do it, and then support forces in Israel for peace, but I’m not sure if I’d make any difference, and they’re going to be reluctant to let in my never-practiced ass even without me being openly hostile to the whole project.
One of the downsides of having mandatory military service is that civilians aren’t exactly regular civilians. Even if they’re not serving now, most of the adult population in Israel has served in the army.
I don’t think that excuses sexual violence and executing children, but it definitely makes the context of civilians a lot murkier.
Yeah it did. Unfortunately though once the genie is out of the bottle it’s really hard to put it back in. War has it’s own momentum and it’s that momentum that needs to be resisted or expended before a war will stop. Perhaps I was unclear, I do not support any active combatants to the war and like every other war it’s the non-combatants who will suffer the most. As much as I would like to resist the momentum of war, I’m just a dude on the other side of the planet talking about something he barely knows.
What makes the problem hard is that there are a lot of dickheads on both sides, not just the governments. You can be an oppressed victim AND a dick. These things are not mutually exclusive, unfortunately.
Plus Israel’s dickery gets blind support from America. I’d guess if the Americans demanded actual concessions from Israel this would no longer be a problem, they’d have two states already. As it is, they have every economic and political incentive to just squeeze the Palestinians harder.
Jews living in other communities has been tried and generally found not to work; it might be OK for a while but eventually they get scapegoated, persecuted, and in one extreme case sent to not exactly a holiday camp in Auschwitz. So they need a land of their own. Where though is the question, because there isn’t much usable land on this planet that hasn’t been claimed by someone, so those people are going to be displaced, some more willingly than others. Personally I think since the USA are their biggest fans they should get one of those 50 states to themselves, and it’d be a lot cheaper to just buy out everyone in the state than to keep trying to keep Israel safe from all the enemies that currently surround them, but what do I know.
I think this comment is pretty unfair. You’re right that there’s a historical demonization of Jews that continues to this day, but i don’t think it makes sense to suggest that the only solution is for all the Jews to hide out in Israel (or some other Jewish nation/state).
That said i don’t think it makes sense to say they have to leave for that reason either, or that it’s the smart thing to do or whatever. Why not stay? If only there were more secular Jews in Israel who opposed apartheid.
You can’t understand not wanting to leave but instead voting via democratic process only to be dissatisfied/alarmed that more authoritarian, right wing demagogues are pushing the Overton Window right and eroding democracy?
Do you live on Mars? This is happening everywhere.
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