Whole Foods argues it can ban BLM masks because the Supreme Court let a Christian business owner refuse same-sex couples

Amazon.com’s Whole Foods Market doesn’t want to be forced to let workers wear “Black Lives Matter” masks and is pointing to the recent US Supreme Court ruling permitting a business owner to refuse services to same-sex couples to get federal regulators to back off.

National Labor Relations Board prosecutors have accused the grocer of stifling worker rights by banning staff from wearing BLM masks or pins on the job. The company countered in a filing that its own rights are being violated if it’s forced to allow BLM slogans to be worn with Whole Foods uniforms.

Amazon is the most prominent company to use the high court’s June ruling that a Christian web designer was free to refuse to design sites for gay weddings, saying the case “provides a clear roadmap” to throw out the NLRB’s complaint.

The dispute is one of several in which labor board officials are considering what counts as legally-protected, work-related communication and activism on the job.

isthingoneventhis,

Being tired and thinking Bureau of Land Management made this very confusing at glance.

Also fuck the courts for that BS.

phillaholic,

There’s a joke in an episode of the new Reno 911 where they go out on a call about BLM setting fires.

dditty,

This mix up is also included on The White Lotus

Uranium3006,
@Uranium3006@kbin.social avatar

Reminder that Amazon is funding cop city https://news.littlesis.org/2022/11/15/meet-the-major-corporations-and-cultural-institutions-helping-build-cop-city-in-atlanta/

AtariDump,

Delta City

GarfieldYaoi,
@GarfieldYaoi@hexbear.net avatar

Free speech for me but not for thee.

serial_crusher,
@serial_crusher@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

Why does anybody think it’s a good idea to wear political statements into work? Just do your job.

Imagine if you ran a business and one of your customer-facing employees showed up in a MAGA hat. You’d probably want them to leave it at home right?

JasSmith,

But if I can’t wear my rainbow onesie to work it’s literally genocide.

Verat,

Lol apparently people here don’t see sarcasm.

scottywh,

I think there’s a difference between not seeing sarcasm and not finding it amusing (particularly in certain circumstances).

Blake, (edited )

Everyone knows they’re being sarcastic, but we also live in a world where it’s a crime punishable by death to be LGBTQ+, where mentioning the topic in public is a crime and there are US politicians who have literally called for genocide against LGBTQ+ people, so it’s just a shitty thing to say.

freeindv,

we also live in a world where it’s a crime punishable by death to be LGBTQ+,

Oh yeah, how many whole foods do they have?

. there are US politicians who have literally called for genocide against LGBTQ+ people

No they’re aren’t. You’re lying

Blake,

deleted_by_author

    •
    freeindv,

    Thanks for proving me right about your lies

    mrpants,

    We do. We just don’t like you two very much.

    Blake,

    Either employees should be allowed to wear personal accessories to express themselves, or they should not. How do you define what is and is not political?

    serial_crusher,
    @serial_crusher@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    Agreed, if I ran a grocery store chain I’d just have the employees wear uniforms with no personal expression.

    At the end of the day it’s the business’s right to set whatever policy they want though. If the government decides employees have a constitutionally protected right to wear whatever they want to wear to work, we’re gonna see a lot of crazy bullshit.

    Blake,

    If the government decides employees have a constitutionally protected right to wear whatever they want to wear to work, we’re gonna see a lot of crazy bullshit

    Would it be a bad thing? I think with some sensible exceptions it would be a very good thing to permit free expression as the default.

    serial_crusher,
    @serial_crusher@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    Also, this article’s vague, but “no slogans, logos, or advertising except for Whole Foods branding” is Whole Foods’s official dress code. shrm.org/…/whole-foods-black-lives-matter-mask.as…

    The plaintiffs were told they had to remove their Black Lives Matter face masks because they violated the dress code, but the workers refused and were sent home. After being sent home several times, they were fired for violating the company’s attendance policy.

    Blake,

    The problem with all of these things is always unequal enforcement. For example if the store allowed an employee to wear a thin blue line mask, and fired another employee for a BLM mask

    freeindv,

    if the store allowed an employee to wear a thin blue line mask,

    Except the store didn’t do that

    Zippy,

    Up to the business. If they don’t want political statements or and statement made at work, I can understand it.

    Blake,

    That just means that employers can push their own political agendas and suppress alternatives.

    “Employees may not wear pins of a political nature, such as expressing support for Joe Biden. Wearing a pin expressing support for Donald Trump is acceptable because that is not political.”

    Like I said, it either has to be all or nothing - allow self expression or do not. Allowing self expression only if the company agrees with the expression is essentially compelled speech.

    freeindv,

    That just means that employers can push their own political agendas and suppress alternatives.

    Damn straight

    unphazed,

    Except BLM and LGBTQ isn’t political. It’s Civil Rights. This isn’t Dem vs GOP, it’s ethical vs unethical treatment of humanity. Unfortunately certain individuals in the US portray this as political, but that’s so they can use it as leverage for their goals. You wouldn’t say “stop beating a slave and set him free” because your political affiliation says so, you say it because you see a human being suffer.

    JasSmith,

    Except BLM and LGBTQ isn’t political. It’s Civil Rights.

    I’m sorry but you just sound naive. These are not mutually exclusive. Civil rights are part of politics. All you’re arguing is that you think the politics you like should be allowed in the work place, and the politics you don’t like should not. That’s the hottest take in the entire post.

    ShellMonkey, (edited )
    @ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com avatar

    That’s where the constant disclaimers to the effect of ‘the views expressed do not nessecarily reflect the position of the company blah blah blah’ whenever someone speaks who isnt the principal executive of the organization. The problem being though it doesn’t go both ways, when one of the high leaders speaks it’s portrayed as ‘our company believes’ which then at least somewhat implies the employees of said company are in agreement. Individual expression is just leveling the field by letting the employees say 'the views of the company do not reflect my own.

    It’s less common for any smart business to make highly charged statements unless they happen to be sure the majority will support them for it, but not unknown. I’ve seen a couple small ones around here that went as far as to plaster Q slogans all over their signs. From a business perspective they just alienated a major portion of their potential customers without anyone setting foot in the door.

    Metal_Zealot,
    @Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

    You think equal rights and fair treatment for all is “politics”?

    ImmortanStalin,

    Being neutral about racism is effectively being racist.

    Zippy,

    Summer people think MAGA is patriotic. Personally I wouldn’t want someone wearing that either.

    Kittenstix,

    They aren’t banning masks that say “equal rights and fair treatment for ALL” , they are banning BLM masks, BLM is a political movement/organization.

    Juno,

    Ya it’s a political movement that wants cops to stop killing black people.

    shiveyarbles,

    No BLM is a statement that black lives matter. That’s completely different from saying, for instance, blue lives matter. One is a race that people are born into and the other is a job. It’s not political, it’s a cry for help.

    bear,
    @bear@slrpnk.net avatar

    Unfortunately it is.

    pinkdrunkenelephants,

    I would agree with you, but this is pretty blatant far-right bias and with the genocidal turn that camp has taken, it’s vitally important to take sides.

    Otherwise, I agree with you.

    freeindv,

    Lol “genocidal turn”

    chatokun,

    So, we can ban crosses? I’m obviously going a bit far, but both somewhat touch on the way people believe rights should be secured, and both involve human rights (one to free expression of religion, another to life and fr33dom from unfair treatment in general). Both make statements to others that others may find uncomfortable, depending on their beliefs.

    serial_crusher,
    @serial_crusher@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    …yes? Why shouldn’t a business have the right to ban their employees from wearing a cross? Go work somewhere else if wearing a cross is that important to you…

    can,

    The point is the the USA the complaint would never have been made about the cross.

    chatokun,

    I mean, I agree, to an extent. As someone else pointed out, the cross banning would never work out in the US, and that shows the difference in how both things are treated here.

    LordPassionFruit,

    I just want to say that restricting someone’s right to wear a cross to work is hella illegal in Canada.

    HorseWithNoName,

    so we can ban crosses

    When there’s comments here bringing up the first amendment and apparently forgetting that it includes that whole thing about not having a national religion, which is exactly what’s happened/continuing to happen with christianity. It’s just a little bit different than “black lives matter,” which is just…a fact?

    _number8_,

    is lemmy being brigaded? seriously, what the fuck is this. “just do your job” is never an adequate response to worker complaints

    HorseWithNoName,

    Yeah, I’m seeing this kind of trash on a lot of posts when lemmy was not even close to this bad just a month ago. It’s fucking gross.

    Muyal,
    @Muyal@lemmy.world avatar

    Redditors ruin everything they touch

    kbotc,

    It is odd. I’m a Wilsonian Neocon with the caveat that I understand not everyone can always get what they want, but Lemmy’s usually “I hate the US so much that I support Russia” not anti-union shit. I suppose the GOP just made the UAW strike into a political talking point so the bot account goons are trying to steer conversations against unions even when the community never wanted it.

    freeindv,

    Ah the old, “an influx of normal opinions not in my extremist progressive echo chamber is brigading”

    bear,
    @bear@slrpnk.net avatar

    Imagine if you ran a business and one of your customer-facing employees showed up in a MAGA hat. You’d probably want them to leave it at home right?

    I think it’s good when people support good things and bad when people support bad things. Amorally applying the rules for their own sake is actually not a virtue; the rules should be oriented to promote good outcomes and discourage bad outcomes. Otherwise, what’s the point?

    TimewornTraveler,

    Who decides what’s good or bad?

    bear,
    @bear@slrpnk.net avatar

    We all do. We already do this throughout society. Individually we make choices on what is good or bad, and collectively those choices add up and are expressed either in law or social contract.

    Lowered_lifted,

    I actually had to talk to the boss and tell him that this manager’s motherfucking confederate flag hat made me uncomfortable, like he was a floor manager who wore the stars and bars every day, in a western state that didn’t exist during the civil war… and they didn’t say anything to him until a customer complained. He wore that shit for like a month. The good ol boy’s club is unreal

    can,

    Why does anyone think whether black people matter or not is political?

    shasta,

    Because BLM is a political movement

    can,

    And what are the politics of the movement?

    freeindv,

    Convincing black people that everyone is against them and that they should feel bad about it, while convincing white people that the only way they can do anything about it is by giving them money

    TimewornTraveler,

    most confusing poster in this whole thread. you say some good shit then dumb shit like this

    freeindv,

    I speak the truth

    orcrist,

    Because workers are more important than the businesses they work for, obviously.

    Kalkaline, (edited )
    @Kalkaline@programming.dev avatar

    Whole Foods is not the business it used to be. Not even close. Any semblance of what that store was when it was privately owned is gone.

    GorbinOutOverHere,

    spoiler: it’s still privately owned

    shottymcb,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    silent_water,
    @silent_water@hexbear.net avatar

    publicly traded is privately owned - buying common stock doesn’t give the public, most of whom are too poor to afford said stock, meaningful control over the business. the stock owning class have interests that directly contradict those of workers (ie the vast, vast majority of us).

    trias10,

    I’m with Amazon on this, seems a reasonable ask for employees to not wear any political/cultural/social things at work with their official uniform.

    PrinceWith999Enemies,

    So if they’re banning BLM as political, do they have to be even handed and ban all political iconography?

    Is a rainbow political? Obviously anything with an American flag is political, so those need to be banned. Anything like a cross obviously would be forbidden - necklaces would have to be tucked in and invisible. Christianity is far more of a political thing in the US than BLM, as it’s being used to specifically and actively drive legislation. Would they then have to ban employees from other religious dress, like wearing a hijab or yarmulke? I don’t recall Muslims or Jews passing legislation in the name of their religion at the national level, but do activities in Dearborn or Williamsburg count?

    Are wedding rings heteronormative? They’re certainly both a cultural and a social thing. Makeup is also both cultural and social, and additionally potentially has gendered implications. If we ban rainbows, do we ban anyone wearing makeup or require everyone to do so, since they’re potentially signaling gender identity?

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    I’m going to start using GOP rhetoric and replace rainbow flag with wedding rings.

    Wedding rings is woke propaganda.

    HipHoboHarold,

    Makes sense to me. If it’s political for me to be able to get married because I’m gay, I don’t see why straight couples shouldn’t be up on the chopping block. So no employee better be wearing a ring.

    trias10,

    I think you’re way into the weeds here and forget the most important thing to remember about “freedom”: things like the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are a compact between you and the government, not you and private companies. Private companies don’t owe you anything besides whatever the government has expressly legislated, such as explicit protection for religious clothing and icons like crosses, Sikh turbans, etc.

    However, beyond that, individual companies have the right to request their employees look and dress in certain ways. The flip side there is, if you don’t like those rules, you are free to not work there anymore.

    Of course, legislators can always choose to pass laws forcing companies to allow more exemptions, but that hasn’t happened yet for displays of a political organisation.

    dipbeneaththelasers,

    @trias10

    I get that. It makes logical sense. It's just that corporations have so much power to impose their will and it feels weird to me that we let them do that even when it comes to how a human presents themself.

    trias10,

    I agree with you about that, but these employees have chosen to do a job where they come face to face with customers daily, and some of those customers may get offended by seeing an employee wearing a BLM badge, in red states for example. The company doesn’t want to antagonise a potential customer and lose a sale, so they’re asking that no employees wear any political markings. And honestly, I think that’s a fair request if you work in a customer-facing role.

    Notice that this ruling only applies to Whole Foods workers, not Amazon warehouse workers, who can probably wear whatever they want since they don’t deal with customers.

    HorseWithNoName,

    Because it is weird. It’s even weirder for any average person to defend it.

    PrinceWith999Enemies,

    No, I am very well aware of that. But they’re not saying “You can’t wear a BLM button because we do not think black lives matter, but you can wear a proud boys one if you want.”

    They may or may not have that right - that’s going to depend on both the currently existing corporate rules and any state/local legislation.

    I was thinking in particular about a case in the past 5 or so years where a company was sued for forbidding one employee from wearing a hijab while allowing others to wear crosses. It was a case of religious discrimination.

    My point is that for this to be non-discriminatory it has to be a policy that’s handled in an even handed fashion. Of course it has nothing to do with the constitution - I’m not even sure why you’d introduce that unless you’re staying to strawman. But I know that I can’t fire someone for saying in the workplace that they agree with Trump unless I have a wholesale policy banning talking about politics. I’d be in trouble if I said people could talk about politics, but they could only say nice things about Biden and bad things about Trump. You might be able to get away with that at a locally owned auto body shop, but not at a major corporation.

    My further point is that saying that black lives matter isn’t political, unless there’s a major political party that thinks black lives don’t matter. Rainbows aren’t political, unless there’s a major political party that thinks the LGBT community shouldn’t be visible. Books on gay parents aren’t political unless there’s a political party that thinks gay people shouldn’t be allowed to be parents. But that same party would allow a flag pin, or a yellow ribbon, or a book about a hetero couple with a kid. It’s only political when they disagree with it. Otherwise it’s just “normal.”

    trias10,

    You actually can fire people based on their political beliefs, because believe it or not, political affiliation is not a protected class under current US federal law (maybe some state law though). There are only 7 current federally protected classes: age, race, sex, religion, marital status, disability, and sexual orientation. That’s why Republicans have been announcing they want to make political affiliation a protected class soon, because I guess that’s the next big battleground, is employers start to hire/fire based on politics.

    I take your points, but I guarantee you this isn’t a decision about politics by Amazon, but purely a maximisation of revenue decision. Whole Foods employees interact with customers face to face, every day, all across the US, from blue states to red states. They know that their customers in some places consider BLM to be a political organisation, one that they don’t support, and that goes for proud boys, KKK, whatever. The point is, you don’t want to antagonise any customers coming in through the door, and corporate is aware that people are awfully sensitive these days and ready to kick off over any tiny thing, so to ensure no customer gets offended and takes their business elsewhere, and to ensure a policy which can be applied nationally for all states where Whole Foods exists, it’s just easier to say they won’t allow anything which their customers could potentially consider political.

    That’s all this is, it’s not the political dog whistle some are making it out to be. This is just corporations wanting to remain neutral and take money from every customer, not just liberal ones. Hence I agree with this policy, it’s not coming from a bad place and it’s not an absurd request either.

    And yes, as you said, not allowing someone to wear a religious article of clothing is a lawsuit waiting to happen, which will be a slam dunk, but this isn’t the same.

    dipbeneaththelasers,

    I agree, but then I started thinking "why the hell do I think it's so reasonable for a corporation to strip away the humanity of its employees" and I'm not sure where I've landed now.

    NuPNuA,

    They’re not doing anything if the sort, that’s hyperbolic nonsense. When you’re paid to represent a company, you shouldn’t be displaying items that link them to a course they’re not corporately linked to. Once you leave at the end of the shift you can put all the political regalia you like back on.

    xtr0n,

    If no one is allowed to wear any flair then that’s fair. But everyone is allowed (and possibly encouraged?) to wear pride stuff in June as part of the anyway corporate rainbow-washing. So I have to ask why it’s OK to wear “LGBTQ+ folks deserve life and civil rights” stuff but it’s not OK to wear “Black folks deserve life and civil rights” stuff? Why is stating that Black lives have value so offensive that it’s worth fighting all the way to the Supreme Court to ban it?

    trias10,

    It’s not just a corporate thing, police, military, and fire brigade aren’t allowed to wear overt political badging either.

    There’s a general rule that if you work for an organisation which asks you to wear a work related uniform of some kind, you don’t get to add anything to it, political or otherwise. You don’t see bobbies with a Pink Floyd sticker on their chest.

    SpookyUnderwear,

    “strip away the humanity”

    I’m dead. That’s got to be the greatest use of hyperbole I’ve seen in a long time. Bravo, sir. Bravo.

    derf82,

    Yeah, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Agree or not (and I agree with what BLM stands for), it is sadly controversial. And I get why a business would not want employees overtly supporting or opposing something some customers could find controversial.

    NuPNuA,

    Yeah, it just seems like common sense to me that you don’t wear political regalia to work, and that’s coming from the UK where our workers rights are a big stronger.

    Like it or not, while you’re on the clock, you’re on the companies time and the only political stuff you should be promoting, if any, if causes they’ve aligned themselves too corporately.

    azerial,

    It’s not “Whole Foods” it’s Amazon. Whole Foods died when Amazon bought them.

    source: I’m from Austin and know several people that work there from employees to management. They killed everything that was whole foods.

    mookulator,

    Pretty sure Whole Foods had shitty conservative executives back then too didn’t they?

    Kalkaline,
    @Kalkaline@programming.dev avatar

    I’m pretty sure it was one of the best places to work in the retail/grocery industry because of their profit sharing.

    azerial,

    And then Amazon bought them and as I’m certain it was fucking awful to work there.

    edit: seems familiar… package deliveries, pickers, warehouse workers, pee bottles

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    Profit sharing ended in 2019. It’s all been big ol Amazon now

    Travalanche,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    They also fought against tighter regulation and labeling of organic and GMO products.

    infuziSporg,
    @infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

    That’s because they largely bought out most of the places that were better to work at.

    azerial,

    You can’t escape those fucks living in Texas. They’re everywhere.

    davi,

    in austin; those fucks call themselves liberal.

    pthaloblue,

    It’s been like that about Whole Foods since the 80s. John Mackey is a libertarian fuckhead and it’s been a series of people realizing it ever since.

    They hired union busters all the time.

    In the 10’s he tried to sell his book “conscious capitalism” on the shelves. Surprise surprise, no one bought it.

    azerial,

    I think I’ve heard about this.

    UlyssesT,

    It was shitty and ruled by a worker abusing chud before Lord Bezos bought it, too.

    FlexibleToast, (edited )

    You can get mad at Amazon, but really it’s the Supreme Court you should be mad at. Amazon is going to take advantage of whatever it thinks will make them more money. The government is the thing that is supposed to keep them in check.

    Edit: A lot of people seem to be reading something different from what I wrote. I didn’t say you shouldn’t be mad at Amazon, or that Amazon isn’t at fault for their own actions. What I did say is that you should expect this type of behavior from a business and should expect our government to do a better job at keeping this behavior in check.

    mookulator,

    I’ll take both please

    Corkyskog,

    When the corporations can fund the politicians there is no difference between them.

    xtr0n,

    I’m mad at both. Amazon is trash. The current court is trash. And all the ghouls that got us this shit ass court are trash, from Mcconnell to Trump to every dummy that votes for Trump to the stupid stupid Democrats who didn’t fight tooth and nail when Obama’s pick didn’t get a hearing and didn’t pack the courts at the 1st opportunity. Oh and fuck RGB who should have fucking retired at the start of Obama’s 1st term. Octogenarians who survived multiple bouts of cancer don’t have the luxury of hanging out so the 1st female president gets to appoint their successor. Democrats are so fucking inept it’s hard to believe that they aren’t sandbagging us on purpose

    Blake,

    it’s hard to believe that they aren’t sandbagging us on purpose

    It’s hard to believe that they’re not doing it on purpose exactly because they are doing it on purpose. The system isn’t broken, it’s doing exactly what it is designed to do. You cannot use the system against itself. Voting helps prevent the greater evil but that just gets you the lesser evil. If you want an answer that is not evil at all, we need to create that entirely separately, outside of the established system and politics.

    FlexibleToast,

    I don’t disagree with anything you said. You’re right on every account. We’re still seeing it in action as Feinstein refuses to step down and backing up the appointment of judges. RBG and Feinstein both destroyed their legacies by hanging on to power for far too long. It’s insane that Mitt Romney, of all people, is the one I agree with. He’s not going to run and encouraged other old people to stop running and let the next generation have a chance.

    MxM111,
    @MxM111@kbin.social avatar

    I can get mad at Amazon and Supreme Court at the same time, but not for this. Having uniform requirements is reasonable thing to do, especially for customer facing employees.

    _number8_,

    why?

    MxM111,
    @MxM111@kbin.social avatar

    Because business is about making money by providing best services. Having dress code is part of it.

    SpookyUnderwear,

    I fear for the public education system when someone like you has to ask this question.

    alignedchaos,

    “Amazon is going to take advantage of whatever it thinks will make them more money.”

    Yea I will in fact get mad at that kind of behavior. Lots of businesses doing it (and commenters like you normalizing it) doesn’t make them less responsible for their shitty behavior.

    BigNote,

    They specifically said you can be mad. It’s the first sentence in OP’s comment. WTF are you on about?

    alignedchaos, (edited )

    Did you miss where where the point of their comment was to deemphasize Whole Foods’ fault and culpability in this? Or are you starting a linguistics discussion?

    Edit: in other words, they say “You should expect businesses to act this way” and I say otherwise

    BigNote,

    You either get it or you don’t. I can’t help you with your lack of reading comprehension.

    They specifically said that “you can be mad” about it.

    You want to have it the way that they’re pushing some kind of agenda, when in fact they’re simply stating what’s true.

    _number8_,

    what the fuck is this shit, on my lemmy? fuck them both is the only sane conclusion, not “it’s a business so it’s fine”

    FlexibleToast,

    I didn’t say it was fine… I said it’s to be expected and the reason they need guard rails.

    SpookyUnderwear,

    You expect too much from people. The majority of this platform, like most others, is comprised of emotionally immature children. They simply want to screech when they see something they don’t like. Not approach the subject from a dispassionate viewpoint.

    We both know what you said. But since you didn’t publicly attack Amazon, they’ll strawman it so it appears you’re defending them.

    FlexibleToast,

    It’s kind of wild that Lemmy seems to be even more left and hive minded than Reddit was. In the earlier days, it seemed like it wasn’t going to be that way.

    SpookyUnderwear,

    I joined Reddit in 2014. It was great back then. Open discussion (for the most part) was common place. You could disagree, but not everyone was a “fascist” or “liberal commie”. Now insults, extremism, and radical attitudes are common place. No middle ground. “agree with all my viewpoints or you’re the enemy”. Lemmy doesn’t look much different.

    I’ve only been on this platform for maybe a week, and I’ve already blocked a dozen instances/communities. Not interested in extremism.

    FlexibleToast,

    I joined Reddit in 2011, it was great. I joined Lemmy after the API price changes meant I couldn’t use my favorite app anymore. Lemmy at that time was a lot like early Reddit. It changed at break neck speed. I guess that’s just the times we’re in now. Everyone in their tribes and if you’re not part of their narrowly defined tribe, you’re the enemy.

    orcrist,

    Getting mad is not important. Making society better is. And everyone involved is responsible for their own actions.

    BigNote,

    These people are morons with 8th grade reading comprehension skills.

    Come to think of it, maybe they are in fact 8th graders?

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    Obviously, no business wants to be associated with BLM any more than they want to be associated with the KKK. Every company I've ever worked for has had dress codes that prohibited divisive political slogans and offensive language.

    innermachine,

    Uniform is uniform, no politics in work is how every job I’ve had was. Can I wear a Spanish flag pin cuz it’s my heritage? No it violates dress code

    mookulator,

    That’s quite the false equivalence you’ve made there

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    They're both reprehensible political extremist movements. BLM has the added stank of being a fraudulent money-laundering scam on top of it, too.
    I guess the Summer of Love didn't happen.

    NXTR, (edited )
    @NXTR@artemis.camp avatar

    Ahhh yes the BLM movement, famously known for lynching thousands of people just like the KKK!

    Also, the KKK were only fighting to uphold their racist ideals. This is exactly the same as the BLM movement trying to fight against racism.

    No false equivalence here!

    mookulator,

    I believe black people’s lives matter. I hold that view so strongly that I’m willing to shout it in the streets. Does that make part of a political extremist movement?

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    It makes you disingenuous. Everybody knows and believes black lives matter. Shouting it in the street amounts to a society-wide false accusation of racism.
    If you then go on to set property on fire or use the message to swindle people out of their money, then you are a political extremist and a criminal.

    freeindv,

    If by “shout it in the streets” you really mean “shut down the streets” as BLM tends to do, then absolutely yes you’re an extremist

    holland,

    Yes, both are extremist movements. One (BLM) doesn’t want black people to be murdered in the streets, while the other (KKK) want to murder black people in the streets. What is wrong with you?

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    No, BLM wants to spread lies about society, burn down cities, murder people, and loot, and swindle your own movement out of millions of dollars.
    Chauvin's prosecution was political.

    holland,

    Get out of here, racist.

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    Shut up, liar. Quit slandering people.

    Grayox,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Still waiting for you to tell me how stating black lives matter is a divisive political statement…

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    I'll spell it out for you:
    It suggests that it needs to be said because there are lots of people who don't know it. However, everybody knows black lives matter, and it's an implication that everybody who doesn't adopt your race ideology is a racist. In reality, those who do are actually racists in denial and are projecting. I and a lot of other people feel this way.
    Then, there are the people who subscribe to your ideology, who think that white people are racist and need to be told to stop being racist, and there are a fair number of people who believe that.
    So, there are a lot of people who think one thing, and a lot of people who think another thing. Shouting your shibboleths in the street that declares your difference highlights the division that exists in society. That is what we call "divisive."

    Oh, and since this is the first time I see you in this thread, I must say I'm sorry I wasn't able to divine that you were waiting for an explanation.

    Grayox,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Highlighting the divisions in our society make you feel uncomfortable, your poor thing. The systemic racist institutions in this nation are actively killing folks of color. And seeing someone profess the statement Black Lives Matter brining it to your attention ruins your wittle day. Poor wittle baby

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    You were the one who specifically asked to have it spelt out to you, and even asked for something I never offered. Don't act like I'm ranting or crying. There are no systemic racist institutions targeting "people of color (everyone but whites)."

    freeindv,

    The systemic racist institutions in this nation are actively killing folks of color

    Nonsense.

    When will you people realize that the reason people oppose this crap isn’t because they support “systemic racism” or something. It’s because they roll their eyes at such ridiculous claim. Especially when such claims are used to justify outright racism against other races

    NXTR,
    @NXTR@artemis.camp avatar

    The BLM movement‘s purpose is to highlight the racial injustices black people face everyday in the United States especially in policing. Black neighborhoods are over-policed, their citizens are harassed and in the worst cases murdered in unprovoked situations by police officers. The fact that many people witness these injustices and either remain indifferent or choose to ignore them suggests that black lives do not matter in this country.

    Supporting the movement doesn’t mean you automatically think all white people are racist. All it means is that you recognize the racial injustices in society and support people, legislation and the steps it takes to eliminate as many of these as possible. This is why when someone doesn’t support black lives matter, the implication can be viewed as racist. It implies that they wish to keep these injustices ingrained in society. Highlighting the division that still exists in society is the only way to solve these problems. How can you heal the wound if you “won’t even admit the knife is there”?

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    The BLM movement is astro-turfed into existence by scammers, but I do believe that there is a movement with a purpose that arose as a result. However, I think they're misguided, focusing on race instead of what the real problem is: policing. We have shitty police. They're ignorant, especially of law, and aggressive, and they're following bad orders. That's in the best case. In the worst case, they're corrupt. It doesn't just affect black people, it affects everyone. By making it a race issue you divide people by race and eliminate any possibility of getting any redress.
    Yes, black people are disproportionately affected, but they're easy targets because they're disproportionately criminal. That's another thing BLM refuses to address. Why are black people disproportionately criminal? Democrats and the deep state have engineered them to be that way. They bribed fathers out of their homes, sold them crack, promised them free shit, lied to them, and utterly destroyed the black family. They have instantiated the school-to-prison pipeline in inner-city public schools.
    If you really wanted to help black people, you'd tell them the truth. There is a solution and it's simple but difficult. Two things need to happen:

    1. Keep the family intact. Fathers are necessary and irreplaceable.
    2. Take your kids out of public school. School them at home. Do whatever it takes.
      Do these two things, and the rest of the details surrounding these problems will solve themselves.
    NXTR,
    @NXTR@artemis.camp avatar

    Have you ever thought about why black people are often criminalized or why so many kids grow up without dads? It’s due to centuries of systemic injustices.

    Redlining is probably the biggest example. Redlining practices pushed black communities into areas given barely any resources. These places today have rough living conditions and rarely see revitalization efforts that actually uplift the people living there. This continued the years of generational poverty that came after slavery and the repeated destruction of any attempts for black people to get any crumb of prosperity. With little support from the government, combined with poverty, forces some into crime just to put food on the table. Now, with these areas being over-policed, you've got a recipe for high arrest rates.

    1: Black men are more often caught in this web. It's not just about being targeted by the police. It's about the dire living conditions, the lack of support, and then the heavy policing. All this means more black men end up behind bars, leaving families without fathers. The kids from these broken homes? They're set up for a hard life from the start and some fall into the same cycle.

    2: Pulling your kids from public schools and opting for homeschooling restricts their exposure to diverse viewpoints and backgrounds. This is why many who've spent time in cities or universities tend to have less conservative views. It’s not about them being molded by others; it's genuine exposure to diverse experiences and stories. This broadens understanding and breaks down barriers while leading less people to view different races negatively. I'm sharing this not to change your mind, but hoping you'll see a different perspective, even if you don't fully agree. Just as you believe in spreading your viewpoint, I believe in the value of diverse exposure. It's how we learn and grow.

    JuBe,

    It’s not about refusing to adopt a “race ideology” that suggests racism; it’s the refusal to acknowledge statistical evidence, the refusal to investigate the law and history of this country, the refusal to recognize cause and effect, and the refusal to appreciate that some times, empathy simply is not possible. It’s the refusal to recognize that history has an impact on the present, and to make the future better than the present, we must make the present better than the past. What suggests racism is being presented with all of that information, and take a stand against making things better.

    Im14abeer,

    Whatever your thoughts on BLM, Derrick Chauvin deserved everything he got and more.

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    There's no doubt in my mind that Chauvin is a grade-A cunt, even as cops go. But Floyd was a thug and he died of a fentanyl overdose.

    Im14abeer,

    You’re aware there is a video of Floyd’s murder right? He’s not ODing, and neither autopsy supports that conclusion.

    apnews.com/…/fact-check-george-floyd-autopsy-new-…

    You know what there is evidence supporting though? Derick Chauvin had a history of problematic encounters with other arrestees. Even if George Floyd was a “thug” this was an extrajudicial murder. Cops don’t get to be judge, jury or executioner.

    marco,
    @marco@beehaw.org avatar

    Making claims to the contrary is a pretty good indicator of ones media diet…

    Im14abeer,

    Funny you say that, the “OD killed George Floyd” theory was floated by “No reasonable viewer takes him seriously” Tucker Carlson.

    freeindv,

    He literally had OD levels of fentanyl and meth in his system, a half chewed speedball pill was found in the cop car he was in, and he had eaten all the drugs he had on his person in prior arrest videos.

    He wasn’t killed by anyone but himself

    Im14abeer,

    Of course your right, two medical examiners are wrong. He was just about to drop dead from the “overdose levels” of drugs in his system before that cop knelt on his neck for 9 1/2 minutes. George Floyd was no saint, but that doesn’t make his death any less of a murder.

    freeindv,

    He was just about to drop dead from the “overdose levels” of drugs in his system before that cop knelt on his neck for 9 1/2 minutes

    Question for you. At what point did Floyd start saying he couldn’t breathe?

    A: while he was still getting into the cop car, before he asked to lie on the ground? B: as he was being detained on the ground?

    Hint: the answer is A

    Im14abeer,

    OK, so Chauvin knew Floyd was having breathing difficulty and still decided to kneel on his neck well after he became motionless, well after he was handcuffed and prone. What is your argument here?

    freeindv,

    BLM’s purpose is to create racial hatred and divide.

    TimewornTraveler,

    it seems you do that on your own. go on, tell us how many black friends you have now

    freeindv,

    Seems like you’re the one doing it right now…

    freeindv,

    Nah, it’s spot on

    araneae,

    Really stupid. I mean REALLY stupid.

    freeindv,

    Yeah, thinking it’s a false equivalence is really stupid

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    Sorry you live in a shitty town where a BLM sticker triggers snowflakes.

    Go to any city in America and you’ll see all sorts of BLM, rainbow flags, signage on storefronts. This isn’t just mom & pop shops, but major companies too.

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    The left has no leg to stand on when bitching about ideological symbols when kids are getting kicked out of school for having a Gadsden flag patch on their backpack.

    NuPNuA,

    Great, and each company is entitled to its own rules on those things. Whole foods have decided on theirs and their employees can lump it or go and get a job with the more progressive companies that do allow it.

    Synthead,

    False equivalence fallacy.

    NuPNuA,

    The BLM/KKK thing is a false equivilance, but his right to say that companies have the right to decide if employees can display political iconography on their uniform and most of them won’t want it due to the hassle it will bring and also that it may indicate a corporate connection that isn’t there.

    Synthead,

    I agree with you, but at most places, one will probably get you fired, where the other would be a conversation.

    Grayox,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    How is the statement Black Lives Matter a divisive political slogan? Take all the time you need.

    too_high_for_this,

    Are you seriously equating BLM to the KKK?

    BLM’s message is “Please stop murdering us”

    How the fuck is that divisive, political, or offensive?

    What’s divisive is morons like you saying “No, ALL LIVES MATTER”.

    You’re either completely missing the point, in which case you’re dumber than I thought possible, or you’re willfully ignoring it, in which case you’re just a racist.

    Which is it?

    transigence,
    @transigence@kbin.social avatar

    I never said, and I never say, "All Lives Matter." That's what stupid conservatives say because they don't understand that's exactly the rhetorical trap BLM has set for them in order to call them racists. Please notice I didn't step in that trap, so don't shove me into it.
    When it comes to "What belongs on people's clothes while representing their employer," BLM and KKK are the same.
    BLM's message isn't really "Please stop murduring us." It's "You white people are all a bunch of racists."
    It's slanderous (which is why it's offensive), it's obviously political at a glance, so inherently so that I don't know how to explain it, and a lot of people don't go for that shit and a lot of other people do (which makes it divisive).

    freeindv,

    All lives matter is an anti racist way to say that black lives matter.

    TimewornTraveler,

    6 day old account with -900 karma… I think it’s a troll, guys!

    Granixo,
    @Granixo@feddit.cl avatar

    They COULD, they COULD do that!

    https://feddit.cl/pictrs/image/7a7ce32f-7ffa-461f-b1d7-25f4004fcb50.png

    But why? Why would they do that?

    https://feddit.cl/pictrs/image/07039d4f-3aa3-41c9-9a4b-18c2d40a34e8.png

    Blake,

    https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/photomania-2eac5002d0448ec2aa4f52ed13b88f1d-e1489570975117.jpg?ssl=1

    “Also, I love to spread extremely racist and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories alongside my neofascist buddies!”

    derin,
    @derin@lemmy.beru.co avatar

    Time to go to Wegmans, y’all.

    Drusas,

    Wegmans is extremely regional. And when I did live somewhere that had one, I almost never went because it was always massively over crowded.

    derin,
    @derin@lemmy.beru.co avatar

    Fair enough. I guess I should have specified it was for those with one in their area.

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    I wish there was a Wegmans in my area. In college, the one near me put discount deli food out at 8am. So I’d get a $2 sandwich and a $1 soup (which would have been like $9). I survived off of discount food.

    derin,
    @derin@lemmy.beru.co avatar

    Same. Wegmans fed me through college, and oh did they feed me well.

    quicksand,

    HEB baby

    Travalanche,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    We don’t have either of those in my area, unfortunately. Trader Joe’s is pretty awesome, but even they have some fucky sourcing and, at least at the one here, a really high turnover rate for employees.

    KnightontheSun,

    Sorry to tell you that Trader Joe’s has adopted an anti-union stance. So, not as awesome anymore.

    Travalanche,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    Figures. I knew something had to be going on with employee treatment. Every time I go in there it’s nearly an entire different crew.

    yip-bonk,
    @yip-bonk@kbin.social avatar

    Exsqueeze me? What the amazon fuck, WholeFoods.

    Maeve,

    Reason 9,000,975 for not shipping Amazon/Whole Foods.

    SpookyUnderwear,

    You can’t seriously be surprised by this. When you work for a company, especially one that interacts with customers, you’re almost guaranteed to have to follow uniform requirements. This isn’t new.

    Grayox,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Fuck Wholefoods

    None of my homies shop at Wholefoods

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    You don’t shop at Whole Foods because of it’s policies.

    I don’t shop at Whole Foods because I don’t believe in paying $4 for a apple.

    We are not the same.

    tsonfeir,

    It’s $6, grandpa.

    Travalanche,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s Amazon/Whole Foods’ policies that lead to charging such ridiculous prices for their items. You are the same, even if you don’t realize it.

    Drusas,

    Whole Foods was charging ridiculous prices long before Amazon got involved.

    Travalanche,
    @Travalanche@lemmy.world avatar

    True. And that hasn’t changed either.

    GBU_28,

    I absolutely would be willing to pay 4 or more for an apple, if it were local, and profits go to a local farm. I’m aware that means I eat in-season then too

    barsoap,

    I live very close to the largest continuous fruit growing area in Europe. In-season 5kg crates go for five Euros, at the end of the season as low as one euro for 5kg on clearance. Don’t expect fancy-pants new strains to go at that price, though, it’s going to be Elstar or Holstein Cox.

    And, fun sidenote: Out of season it’s indeed more CO2-advantageous for us to import apples from New Zealand than to store them. Buy apple sauce.

    Blake,

    Out of season it’s indeed more CO2-advantageous for us to import apples from New Zealand than to store them

    Not necessarily true, it would depend on the how clean the energy source of the refrigeration is. The only other major CO2Eq emission from storage of perishables is refrigerant leakage, but in most commercial scale usages that’s really low.

    unphazed,

    So just drive to your local farmers market. Get a pound or two for $5 and cut out the middle man. I go occasionally, I get good deals like $1 massive sweet onions, 3 for $1 bell peppers (like softball sized ones), etc. Go early though, they usually sell before official times and are sold out within 3 hours (restaurants hit them hard)

    GBU_28,

    I do

    iforgotmyinstance,

    There isn’t one in my town so boycott goin strong for N years?

    Kittenstix,

    Idk that 5% cash back is hard to beat. I mean sure, fuck amazon for being anti-union, definitely need to trust bust them to but until then I can’t get 5% cash back when buying household goods anywhere else.

    marco,
    @marco@beehaw.org avatar

    That 5% would be great, if WF wasn’t like 50% more expensive LOL

    …yahoo.com/…/whole-foods-vs-trader-joe-180008164.…

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