yes, we need to get more and more people killed, 100 billion dollars didn’t do the job but 100 more ought to be enough to quench the westerner thirst for blood
You are right, though. Ukraine needs more and better weapons to kick Russians out. There are only two possible outcomes, either Russia conquers Ukraine or they are kicked out. Instead of giving the edge to Ukraine, west is playing on perpetual war, so the war industry profits - at least it looks like that. And of course, blood is mostly on Putin's hands.
“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists. They (the Israeli forces) open fire. Two (hostages) are killed immediately,” the official told reporters in a phone briefing.
As if this wasn’t ridiculous enough, it gets better
“Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there’s another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies,” the official said. “This was against our rules of engagement,” he added.
So, to summarize: unarmed civilians waving a white flag were categorized as terrorists and two of them get executed immediately. The battalion commander then directly orders the soldiers to stop firing but those orders are being disobeyed and the last of the group is executed anyway.
That is not feeling “threatened”. That is bloodlust.
In the years after he registered as a sex offender, Epstein was rarely alone. He was often accompanied by attractive young women in their late teens or 20s.
Come on now, let’s be real, a lot of those were underage.
I’ve blocked all the nazis trying to engage with me saying nazis aren’t bad so I’ll just say this in a TLC and block more nazis when they reply -
It’s funny that all the people calling ME evil for not considering the nuances of various people’s nazi ideology… Are the same people who think women should die for wearing jeans, and that people should die for having a different religion, or die for not sharing a skin tone…
Nazis are nazis are nazis. If your world view was so different, spoilers, you wouldn’t identify with nazis. 🤷
It’s an irrelevant question leading into a off topic point that you’d like to make. If you’d like to deliver a point, go ahead and comment it. Not my job to try and land your point for you though.
Per Capita, in total, Per capita per year, or total per year? Each of these 4 types has a different answer, and the Nazis were higher in nearly every metric of slaughter.
The US is bad. The US has never been fully fascist, despite flirting with it. Nazi Germany was perhaps the most evil and oppressive country to ever exist in history, and certainly was for the 20th century.
What exactly is your point? Nazis are bad, but so is the US? I don’t think too many people on Lemmy are fans of the US, but to insinuate that the Nazis are somehow more palatable by being compared to the US is absurd.
Odd to call it “winning,” but the answer is “historical total.” The US has murdered tens of millions more over its several hundred year history than Nazi Germany killed in the less than half a century it existed.
It isn’t sanity to pretend that hundreds of years of brutal history are equally comparable to an extremely condensed period of the single most brutal country to exist in modern history. Nazism is far more evil than liberalism, even if liberalism is still inevitably evil.
Why? You keep trying to dodge that your central point is that people should stop saying Nazis are bad, because the US exists. It’s absurd and nothing more needs to be said, you aren’t willing to engage in fair or meaningful convo
My central point is that it’s complicated. Because reality is complicated. And the difference between a nazi and a regular person is much smaller than you think.
It’s all strange. What’s the point? “Hmmm, you think Nazis are bad? Have you considered that other countries are bad but significantly less bad? Checkmate!” It’s just terminally online.
I’m always interested in a decent discussion or thought experiment though, even if I completely disagree with the other person. 99% are so lazy nowadays it’s not even interesting reading their copy/paste comments that have been recycled for the last decade
If the bar for being a Nazi is merely killing people many of us would be Nazis. Personally I think nazihood has more to do with a wish to genocide (the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.).
I think people who defend nazis, their right to believe in nazi ideology, and argue that nazis are overall fine people are nazis or nazi apologists which are equally unwelcome in my circles and consciousness. Sorry, I’m not going to feel bad for hurting nazi feelings.
You can reply to this and “um actually” all you want about nazis, but if you’re pro-nazi, I’m gonna block you. Easy peasy.
Yeah I’m economically far left but socially I lean a little further right, which has gotten me called a nazi before, which is ridiculous if you actually know me haha
To be fair, understanding the damage of hierarchy economically while simultaneously rejecting intersectionality and upholding it socially is an extremely fringe view to have. Socialists with conservative social views are very rare in developed countries and online.
Tldr I’m a pantheist who believes there are simply too many people on planet earth and I’m also very intolerant towards most religions, I guess that would make you want to call me an ecofascist which I don’t really identify with either, but it’s a lot less infuriating than being called a nazi
Isn’t it funny how when you add context, “maybe Canada is taking in too many immigrants at once” turns into “yea, I’m probably better described as an ecofascist even if I don’t like the way that sounds, and I am intolerant and believe in overpopulation?”
All I’m saying is that my suspicion was a lot closer to being correct. Ecofascism is far closer to Nazism than mere “immigration too quick” ploys, and it makes sense to call you a fascist in that context.
Maybe reconsider your positions if they even put you in the vicinity of fascism? Just a hint.
Since when did disagreeing with the idea that the Earth is currently at or reaching overpopulation levels equivalent to thinking that those levels don’t exist?
You could move far, far away from Nazism and Ecofascism, and join EcoMarxists. No intolerance, no lack of intersectionality, and a true leftist movement, rather than a far-right fascist movement.
Religion is either just a cult or a business and we should be intolerant towards it just as much as Nazism imo. I am tolerant towards most things but if you believe in a man in the sky I am going to think less of you
I think we are already overpopulated, it’s easy to see from the biodiversity the planet is losing. If there were a button I could press that would kill myself and millions of other people without discrimination or pain I would press it, but that’s an impossible idea
You remind me of apologists who argue somebody can’t be a nazi even though they spout the ideology and use the language, because they aren’t on record saying “I heart Hitler” three times in a mirror.
It’s not coincidence, there’s alot more nazis running around on some nazi shit. By the way in case you didn’t know, while I don’t recall it coming up in the music (I have a Burzum CD around here somewhere) but - Burzum/Varg was increasingly on some nazi/white nationalist shit, so it’s not some “fuckin LiBrUlZ” conspiracy to call everybody a nazi, you were just wearing a shirt associated with nazi shit. 🤷
I know who varg is. It’s impossible to listen to black metal and entirely avoid this kind of thing. I was wearing a hvis lyset tar oss shirt, there are no such themes on the album, and I bought the shirt way before varg went full nazi on YouTube (it’s counterfeit anyway so he got nothing from me)
The only black metal I avoid are ones where nazi themes are explicitly in the lyrics
Do digging on the people behind any black metal band and you’ll probably find something similar, it’s extreme music made by extreme people
You’re missing the point - you weren’t called a nazi cause you were wearing a sccarryy black metal tee. You were called a nazi for wearing a nazi’s tee.
Whatevs, you’ve made it abundantly clear that you’re being intentionally obtuse in defense of nazis so I’m over it. Bye Felicia.
I would advise to call them Neo-Nazis instead of Nazis. Most Nazis are dead and Neo-Nazis are given too much distraction by giving them this easy excuse.
Check Talia Levin’s book, Culture Warlords. She spent a year undercover online as a far-right personality and wrote about the encounters she experienced. It was a rough time, clearly. She’s in the punch-a-nazi camp and reading her book landed me there at the end.
Also, just to see if they have even the tiniest bit of plausible deniability, I checked out Midgard’s shop. There’s overtly white supremacist shit ALL OVER the place.
It’s not like these people accidentally supported a band with reprehensible beliefs behind the scenes. It’s not like a totally normal music shop turned out to be a front for white supremacists. There’s note even any serious argument about “separating art from the artist.” The leak includes what people bought, and you can tell when someone bought overtly white supremacist music. And even if they didn’t, and the band or album name doesn’t give anything away, what’s it doing at the Nazi store? Why isn’t it streaming, or on Bandcamp, or self-distributed? These customers still had to know there’s an obscure Nazis music store, what it’s called and where to find it, confirm that it’s a Nazi store the moment they went there, and still give them money and their address to place a mail order. Oh, some of them aren’t native English speakers? Then that just makes it even more damning that they did all this with a language barrier in place!
Plus, just look at the apologists in this thread. They’re fucking cowards. They can’t just come out with their beliefs, so they’re just asking questions, deflecting from the topic. One is concern trolling for the fundamental humanity of literal Nazis, despite the fact that the main fucking problem with Nazis is that they considered marginalized groups subhuman. Where’s the concern there? Why the focus on the people who oppose Nazis rather than the Nazis themselves? Another one could barely resist giving the game away by saying they’ve been called a Nazi before because of their anti-immigrant positions.
The people defending this shop and its customers aren’t serious people. They’re dishonest, cowardly, and stupid.
Israel valued immediate vengeance more than isolating Iran through establishing diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, as a result Hamas achieved its goals in the attack while the people of Gaza suffered the greatest portion of the consequences.
I'm not going to point fingers at who's more wrong here. It's pointless. My opinions have no bearing on what happens. This is just the outcome of all the actions that have taken place. This is how history will record these events.
I don’t disagree that the conflict has to stop, but I don’t see how anyone can force a ceasefire between two separate independent countries. What action do they think the US can take to force this situation? No matter what you offer or withhold it’s still ultimately up to the individual parties involved.
Ok, but this war is between Israel and Hamas, what can America do about it other than what they’ve always done and bomb the shit out of both sides?
It’s like protesting in Toronto because they don’t like a new policy in Tokyo.
Regardless of your feelings on the conflict, blocking freeways is beneficial even if done for no reason at all. Urban highways were a mistake and never should have been built. Every minute they continue normal operation is a minute they continue destroying our neighborhoods, poisoning the innocent and vulnerable who live nearby, and destroying the future for our descendants.
So I commend these activists and hope we see more of this.
No matter the outcome of this, nobody is learning that lesson from this demonstration.
If you want to take a (more obvious) environmental bent, this is a terrible idea for them to do because all they’re doing is causing vehicles to have to run substantially longer.
This assumes the same number of people will use them, just more slowly. But this is quite obviously false if you think it through. If the highway is so backed up you can’t get onto it then you won’t use it, will you? I would be fairly confident that this more than offsets the idling engines. Covid was a big eye opener in realizing how much traffic actually protects us from the real dangers of unfettered high speed traffic.
This individual protest may only have a small effect but it seems we’re seeing more of these as time goes on, and the more often they happen, the bigger the impact.
That might be what you wish they are learning, but I assure you that’s not the case. There may be more of those Highway blocking protests that you’re thinking about, but you’re simply hearing about them spread across many, many locations. They are not occurring frequently enough in one location to warrant a change to the way people commute. I have never even heard of anybody linking those two points together before.
If they’re blocking a highway, it’s not like you can just see the protest up ahead and turn off instead instead of choosing to be stuck. Often they are held in the middle of long stretches where they will trap as man cars as they are able on both sides.
And the lesson most people learned from COVID was that there was absolutely no reason why we couldn’t work from home. Although I could potentially see a link between working from home and, when the time comes to replace the infrastructure, replacing it with something more environmentally sane… but they’d have to convince big business owners to not force people to come into work for no reason, and good luck with that.
It seems like there’s a lot of wishful thinking to get from “those protesters are blocking this street” to “man, we should completely redo the entire infrastructure of North America because of these protests.”
They’re US allies. They’ve been receiving that aid long before the hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking an EDM festival and killing a thousand civilians. The conflict over there is a terrible situation, but fucking up people’s commutes 7500 miles away from the conflict zone accomplishes nothing except for ruining those people’s days, and possibly causing them massive hardship.
So many pieces of news just establish that the IDF is full of pussies. “He’s waving a white flag… WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! TAKE HIM OUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD”
But seriously, I do imagine they’ve been fed enough propaganda about “the enemy” willing to do anything that naked people with a white flag can still look like Hamas trying to trick them. Fucked up
Two things that IDF and US law enforcement share is both being scared 24/7, and constantly going out of their way to do everything possible to paint civilians as active enemy combatants/terrorists. Yet they always like to say shit like “if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear” to us. Also love to do everything to give off the air of being such “badasses protecting the masses”. Fuck all of them, and they will certainly have much to fear once the masses start to actually come for them. Not very leftist of me to say, but if they are finally taken I can only hope that they are not given fast or painless ends. As they had their chance to stand with the masses and chose to be lapdogs for zionists/fascists/the oppressors of the working classes. Reactionaries are pussies and take out their rage on everyone they feel is weaker than they are.
“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists. They (the Israeli forces) open fire. Two (hostages) are killed immediately,” the official told reporters in a phone briefing.
The third hostage was wounded and retreated into a nearby building where he called for help in Hebrew, the official said.
“Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there’s another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies,” the official said. “This was against our rules of engagement,” he added.
Yeah, I don’t see why the practice would be any different apart from someone having to account for the deaths since they were Israeli citizens and they happened before too many witnesses in this instance.
I always feel conflicted when I see things like this. On one side good for them, they found a way to get their message across to a nation news. But on the other hand they are intentionally disrupting infrastructure people rely on everyday. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people want global change, but I do think it is a bad thing that people feel powerless to influence this change so they have to resort to more disruptive methods like this. More representation in the federal government could help prevent this.
Also conflicted: I don’t think the disruption itself is a bad thing if it’s disrupting a part of society that derives benefit from the whatever is being protested against.
That said, I’m not sure how disrupting traffic in Los Angeles is going to affect the change they want to see. You can’t get much further from Washington DC than the West Coast.
I'm not really asking you to look it up or anything, but this gets parroted around a lot, and I wonder if there's actually any data to really support it or if it's just a statement that kinda sounds nice.
This post itself provides a new data point as a piece of evidence to support that claim. There is a news article written about it, and we are talking about it.
I mean, is a major highway in the second largest city of the primary colonial sponsor a bad place? I guess if we had free teleportation they might find marginally better success in DC or Tel Aviv, but if you’re located in LA I can see why you’d choose to protest there and not somewhere else.
If it happened in a vacuum, probably not. But traffic jams don’t happen in a vacuum. They ripple out and cause effects that hit millions of other people. Such as this news article, this lemmy post, and all of the people here discussing it.
Traffic jam equals lots of news coverage lots of pissed off voters, lots of attention lots of eyes, that is how you get to people who can make a change.
“Fuck shit up for a many people as possible” isn’t sustainable. Gandhi and Martin Luther knew that. If it weren’t for the number of downvotes people are getting for even hinting that this isn’t the right way to do things, I would think this is actually a psyop from the other side to put people off towards Palestine.
Like just stop oil is actually run by oil companies to recruit the most extreme left people that think sitting in the road is doing anything more than pissing the average person off and giving right wing media material to hate you.
But nope, people really are this stupid. On both sides. Both want to divide so strongly, because if people actually got along we would start addressing issues instead of bitching online about what you hate about the other side.
You think Gandhi and Martin Luther King didn’t disrupt things? My god of course they did they were extremely disruptive. You’ve fallen for the whitewash history, were they teach you to be good little boys who sit down out of the way and don’t bother anyone. It’s fiction. It’s not real. Martin Luther King was disrupting a ton of stuff Gandhi even more so.
Here’s a quote from Martin Luther King that says exactly what he thinks of people like you:
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I don’t have a problem with people disrupting traffic to protest, I have a problem with people doing it for a purpose that the government can’t actually achieve, with only a few people, or in places that don’t make sense for the cause.
If you want to disrupt it over some local (to at least the country) issue, and you have enough popular support to host an actual rally with hundreds or thousands of marchers blocking the road, go right ahead and disrupt traffic. If you’re marching about the environment, rally at a park then march to a government office. If you’re marching about police brutality, go sit down outside a police station.
Unfortunately, The US government is not the Israeli government. The most they could do is exert pressure on Israel, which to be fair is quite a lot of pressure given it’s the US, but I highly doubt that Israel would stop immediately even if the US asked them to. In this case, from the pictures, they also only had enough people to make a single line across the road. The location isn’t relevant to anything either.
I thought you might be referring to the 1983 attacks.
I was a little underdeveloped at that age to be aware of everything going on.
Doesn’t look like he stopped anything though, given that fighting continued despite the ceasefire for a few more years, and that Israel still attacks Lebanon on a regular basis because of Hezbollah.
He didn't stop the conflict as a whole, but he stopped the bombing of west Beirut itself.
That bombing was followed by a protest to the Israeli government by President Ronald Reagan. Within 20 minutes of a phone call between Reagan and Begin, in which the former said the bombings were going too far and needed to stop, Begin ordered the bombings stopped.
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