worldnews

This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

gregorum, in U.S. and Ukraine Search for a New Strategy After Failed Counteroffensive

Give Ukraine offensive weapons. Unless Moscow is under real threat, they have no reason to ever stop. 

Krause,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

yes, we need to get more and more people killed, 100 billion dollars didn’t do the job but 100 more ought to be enough to quench the westerner thirst for blood

gregorum,

Right, because “The West” is responsible for Russia’s illegal invasion of another sovereign nation, lmao.

Take that crap someplace else.

TexMexBazooka,

Just Lemmy.ml things

gregorum,

*lemmygrad.ml

brain_in_a_box,

What a complete non-sequitur

ShimmeringKoi, (edited )

Literally is but go off king

And lol what do you think is a legal invasion? One where they file the paperwork?

anarchoilluminati,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

A legal invasion is like how I raided my own liquor cabinet last night.

mihies,

You are right, though. Ukraine needs more and better weapons to kick Russians out. There are only two possible outcomes, either Russia conquers Ukraine or they are kicked out. Instead of giving the edge to Ukraine, west is playing on perpetual war, so the war industry profits - at least it looks like that. And of course, blood is mostly on Putin's hands.

Karyoplasma, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists. They (the Israeli forces) open fire. Two (hostages) are killed immediately,” the official told reporters in a phone briefing.

As if this wasn’t ridiculous enough, it gets better

“Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there’s another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies,” the official said. “This was against our rules of engagement,” he added.

So, to summarize: unarmed civilians waving a white flag were categorized as terrorists and two of them get executed immediately. The battalion commander then directly orders the soldiers to stop firing but those orders are being disobeyed and the last of the group is executed anyway.

That is not feeling “threatened”. That is bloodlust.

pelespirit, in Jeffrey Epstein Never Stopped Abusing Women—and His VIP Circle Helped Make It Possible
@pelespirit@sh.itjust.works avatar

In the years after he registered as a sex offender, Epstein was rarely alone. He was often accompanied by attractive young women in their late teens or 20s.

Come on now, let’s be real, a lot of those were underage.

Facebones, (edited ) in The Names of Thousands of Neo-Nazi Music Fans Just Got Leaked

I’ve blocked all the nazis trying to engage with me saying nazis aren’t bad so I’ll just say this in a TLC and block more nazis when they reply -

It’s funny that all the people calling ME evil for not considering the nuances of various people’s nazi ideology… Are the same people who think women should die for wearing jeans, and that people should die for having a different religion, or die for not sharing a skin tone…

Nazis are nazis are nazis. If your world view was so different, spoilers, you wouldn’t identify with nazis. 🤷

FUCK NAZIS.

Dr_DOOM_,

I like you!

Facebones,

I like you, buddy.

mob,

Nazis are obviously bad, but this comment makes me think that anyone you don’t like/like their comments/replies, you consider a Nazi?

cameron_vale,

Who do you supposed killed more people. The Nazis or the USA?

mob,

What a strange and leading question.

cameron_vale,

Some hard numbers might add clarity to this soup of outraging.

mob,

I’m confused by the whole comment line. Do I seem like I’m outraging, or have any strong opinions any way that needs to be clarified?

cameron_vale,

Focus on answering the question. It aids clarity.

mob,

It’s an irrelevant question leading into a off topic point that you’d like to make. If you’d like to deliver a point, go ahead and comment it. Not my job to try and land your point for you though.

cameron_vale,

Suit yourself.

Oderus,

I see you took the cowards way to avoid an argument.

Lianodel,

That user was cowardly from the jump. It’s why they wouldn’t outright make their point, but “just ask questions.”

Cowbee,

Per Capita, in total, Per capita per year, or total per year? Each of these 4 types has a different answer, and the Nazis were higher in nearly every metric of slaughter.

The US is bad. The US has never been fully fascist, despite flirting with it. Nazi Germany was perhaps the most evil and oppressive country to ever exist in history, and certainly was for the 20th century.

What exactly is your point? Nazis are bad, but so is the US? I don’t think too many people on Lemmy are fans of the US, but to insinuate that the Nazis are somehow more palatable by being compared to the US is absurd.

cameron_vale,

Ooh, evasive. Which metric did USA win? And by how much?

Just delivering a dose of sanity to this low hanging fruit salad.

Of course nazis are bad. But you people. Look at you. Frothing on command. Bunch of drones waiting for your target programming.

Cowbee,

Odd to call it “winning,” but the answer is “historical total.” The US has murdered tens of millions more over its several hundred year history than Nazi Germany killed in the less than half a century it existed.

It isn’t sanity to pretend that hundreds of years of brutal history are equally comparable to an extremely condensed period of the single most brutal country to exist in modern history. Nazism is far more evil than liberalism, even if liberalism is still inevitably evil.

cameron_vale, (edited )

Oh how you evade my point.

Remember. A few years of deprivation, a rousing propaganda campaign and a billionaire’s funding, and you too might become the next “bad guy”.

Heck, none of these people ever saw a nazi outside of a videogame, and look at their passion. Puppets looking for a master.

Cowbee,

I’ll make it simple for you: Nazis are bad.

cameron_vale,

Were they born bad?

Cowbee,

When one becomes a Nazi, they cease to be able to be considered good.

cameron_vale,

Oh just answer the simple question

Cowbee,

Why? You keep trying to dodge that your central point is that people should stop saying Nazis are bad, because the US exists. It’s absurd and nothing more needs to be said, you aren’t willing to engage in fair or meaningful convo

cameron_vale,

But that isn’t my central point my obtuse buddy.

My central point is that it’s complicated. Because reality is complicated. And the difference between a nazi and a regular person is much smaller than you think.

Cowbee,

Nazis are evil. Simple.

cameron_vale,

That would make a good videogame

sarmale,

No, they were born innocent, when they became nazis they became bad

cameron_vale,

Ah so they changed. Why did they change?

sarmale,

I dont know, maybe the had bad experiences with something or maybe they just became so because surroundings? But why does it matter?

cameron_vale,

It matters because it’s the difference between them and you.

So if we had bad experiences then maybe we would be nazis.

That idea makes my head spin.

sarmale,

They probably had a lot of choiches to make tho, That idea makes me think too but its not like they were predestined or something

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Criminals aren’t born bad, they have to break the law which is a social contract.

Tolerance is also a social contract that Nazis have opted out of.

Fuck Nazis.

cameron_vale,

Ya I saw that movie too.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

The one where the Nazis get stomped in the 20th century or the one where the Nazis get stomped in the 21st century?

CileTheSane,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Ooh, evasive. Which metric did USA win? And by how much?

If you knew anything about what you were talking about you would already know.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Nazis love dehumanizing people

Bunch of drones

Go on and tell us how much better you are than a Nazi.

cameron_vale,

You realize that calling people nazis is dehumanizing too, right?

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Nazi is a subclassification of humans, it actually does the opposite of dehumanizing by more thoroughly defining the human/humanity relationship.

But if me saying “fuck Nazis” gets you riled up so be it 🫡

mob,

Even without defining those parameters, I also thought it was sort of strange to compare a political party vs country.

Cowbee,

It’s all strange. What’s the point? “Hmmm, you think Nazis are bad? Have you considered that other countries are bad but significantly less bad? Checkmate!” It’s just terminally online.

mob,

Oh yeah, at it’s root, it was already bad.

I’m always interested in a decent discussion or thought experiment though, even if I completely disagree with the other person. 99% are so lazy nowadays it’s not even interesting reading their copy/paste comments that have been recycled for the last decade

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

If the bar for being a Nazi is merely killing people many of us would be Nazis. Personally I think nazihood has more to do with a wish to genocide (the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.).

cameron_vale, (edited )

Normal people just want to pay their bills and get high. But sometimes life gets fucked up and people are stressed out.

Then some politicians come along with a story about how those guys with the different skin/religion/etc are to blame.

And then some rich guys buy you some guns.

So maybe it’s the politicians and the rich guys that we should be looking at.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

So maybe it’s the politicians and the rich guys that we should be looking at.

You don’t need money or power to be a deadbeat fucking Nazi.

Facebones,

I think people who defend nazis, their right to believe in nazi ideology, and argue that nazis are overall fine people are nazis or nazi apologists which are equally unwelcome in my circles and consciousness. Sorry, I’m not going to feel bad for hurting nazi feelings.

You can reply to this and “um actually” all you want about nazis, but if you’re pro-nazi, I’m gonna block you. Easy peasy.

brbposting,

Gotta do my part and never block anybody so I can advocate for e.g. defederating nazinstances.

It ain’t much, but…

negativeyoda,

So wild that this is a hot take these days

tryagain,

Make Nazis Windchimes Again.

jabjoe,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

Your right to not tolerate intolerance.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Cowbee,

There are people siding with Nazis and reporting this post for doxxing, lol

rab,

You remind me of one of my friends who uses the word nazi so much it’s basically lost all its weight

Cowbee,

Imagine getting mad at someone saying Nazis are bad. I wouldn’t be caught dead getting upset that someone was saying Nazis are bad, lmao

rab,

What annoys me is throwing the word around like it’s nothing, dude calls pretty much anyone a nazi lol

For example, I was called a nazi for saying maybe Canada is taking too many immigrants at once

Cowbee,

Depends entirely on the context. Framed like that? Probably not a Nazi, but I wouldn’t dare make judgement without knowing what actually transpired.

Might be a hot take, but the idea that the word “Nazi” is thrown around like it’s nothing is actually overblown, and usually it’s correctly thrown.

rab,

Maybe my friends are dumb but the far left ones love using the word whenever possible

Cowbee,

Usually the far left calls everyone a liberal, it’s liberals that call conservatives Nazis. The far left usually calls actual fascists Nazis.

rab,

Yeah I’m economically far left but socially I lean a little further right, which has gotten me called a nazi before, which is ridiculous if you actually know me haha

Cowbee,

To be fair, understanding the damage of hierarchy economically while simultaneously rejecting intersectionality and upholding it socially is an extremely fringe view to have. Socialists with conservative social views are very rare in developed countries and online.

rab,

Tldr I’m a pantheist who believes there are simply too many people on planet earth and I’m also very intolerant towards most religions, I guess that would make you want to call me an ecofascist which I don’t really identify with either, but it’s a lot less infuriating than being called a nazi

Cowbee,

Isn’t it funny how when you add context, “maybe Canada is taking in too many immigrants at once” turns into “yea, I’m probably better described as an ecofascist even if I don’t like the way that sounds, and I am intolerant and believe in overpopulation?”

All I’m saying is that my suspicion was a lot closer to being correct. Ecofascism is far closer to Nazism than mere “immigration too quick” ploys, and it makes sense to call you a fascist in that context.

Maybe reconsider your positions if they even put you in the vicinity of fascism? Just a hint.

rab,

So you think the earth can sustain an infinite amount of people? Lol

Cowbee,

Since when did disagreeing with the idea that the Earth is currently at or reaching overpopulation levels equivalent to thinking that those levels don’t exist?

You could move far, far away from Nazism and Ecofascism, and join EcoMarxists. No intolerance, no lack of intersectionality, and a true leftist movement, rather than a far-right fascist movement.

rab,

Religion is either just a cult or a business and we should be intolerant towards it just as much as Nazism imo. I am tolerant towards most things but if you believe in a man in the sky I am going to think less of you

I think we are already overpopulated, it’s easy to see from the biodiversity the planet is losing. If there were a button I could press that would kill myself and millions of other people without discrimination or pain I would press it, but that’s an impossible idea

Cowbee,

Just don’t be a fascist, buddy. Get help.

rab,

You admitted above that earth cannot sustain infinite people so we’re kind of on the same page here. What is your idea when that limit is reached?

Cowbee,

Not genocide, lol.

rab,

What’s the other option? Convincing people to willingly off themselves? Lol

Facebones,

You remind me of apologists who argue somebody can’t be a nazi even though they spout the ideology and use the language, because they aren’t on record saying “I heart Hitler” three times in a mirror.

rab,

I dunno someone called me a nazi recently at my university for wearing a burzum shirt for example lol

Word is definitely getting thrown around a lot these days

Facebones,

It’s not coincidence, there’s alot more nazis running around on some nazi shit. By the way in case you didn’t know, while I don’t recall it coming up in the music (I have a Burzum CD around here somewhere) but - Burzum/Varg was increasingly on some nazi/white nationalist shit, so it’s not some “fuckin LiBrUlZ” conspiracy to call everybody a nazi, you were just wearing a shirt associated with nazi shit. 🤷

rab,

I know who varg is. It’s impossible to listen to black metal and entirely avoid this kind of thing. I was wearing a hvis lyset tar oss shirt, there are no such themes on the album, and I bought the shirt way before varg went full nazi on YouTube (it’s counterfeit anyway so he got nothing from me)

The only black metal I avoid are ones where nazi themes are explicitly in the lyrics

Do digging on the people behind any black metal band and you’ll probably find something similar, it’s extreme music made by extreme people

Facebones,

You’re missing the point - you weren’t called a nazi cause you were wearing a sccarryy black metal tee. You were called a nazi for wearing a nazi’s tee.

Whatevs, you’ve made it abundantly clear that you’re being intentionally obtuse in defense of nazis so I’m over it. Bye Felicia.

vxx,

I would advise to call them Neo-Nazis instead of Nazis. Most Nazis are dead and Neo-Nazis are given too much distraction by giving them this easy excuse.

aniki,

That’s such a stupid fucking argument to nit pick it’s almost absurd.

Nazis is as Nazis does. Adding a prefix changes nothing.

vxx,

You’re relativising Nazis this way and are also making it way too easy to not take you serious.

aniki,

Says the dude downplaying titles.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

oh no, the fucking Nazis don’t take us seriously, we’re so screwed

-nobody

some_guy,

Check Talia Levin’s book, Culture Warlords. She spent a year undercover online as a far-right personality and wrote about the encounters she experienced. It was a rough time, clearly. She’s in the punch-a-nazi camp and reading her book landed me there at the end.

Lianodel,

Also, just to see if they have even the tiniest bit of plausible deniability, I checked out Midgard’s shop. There’s overtly white supremacist shit ALL OVER the place.

It’s not like these people accidentally supported a band with reprehensible beliefs behind the scenes. It’s not like a totally normal music shop turned out to be a front for white supremacists. There’s note even any serious argument about “separating art from the artist.” The leak includes what people bought, and you can tell when someone bought overtly white supremacist music. And even if they didn’t, and the band or album name doesn’t give anything away, what’s it doing at the Nazi store? Why isn’t it streaming, or on Bandcamp, or self-distributed? These customers still had to know there’s an obscure Nazis music store, what it’s called and where to find it, confirm that it’s a Nazi store the moment they went there, and still give them money and their address to place a mail order. Oh, some of them aren’t native English speakers? Then that just makes it even more damning that they did all this with a language barrier in place!

Plus, just look at the apologists in this thread. They’re fucking cowards. They can’t just come out with their beliefs, so they’re just asking questions, deflecting from the topic. One is concern trolling for the fundamental humanity of literal Nazis, despite the fact that the main fucking problem with Nazis is that they considered marginalized groups subhuman. Where’s the concern there? Why the focus on the people who oppose Nazis rather than the Nazis themselves? Another one could barely resist giving the game away by saying they’ve been called a Nazi before because of their anti-immigrant positions.

The people defending this shop and its customers aren’t serious people. They’re dishonest, cowardly, and stupid.

uphillbothways, in US Diplomacy Lost Traction in Middle East; Isolating Iran No Longer Possible
@uphillbothways@kbin.social avatar

Israel valued immediate vengeance more than isolating Iran through establishing diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, as a result Hamas achieved its goals in the attack while the people of Gaza suffered the greatest portion of the consequences.

I'm not going to point fingers at who's more wrong here. It's pointless. My opinions have no bearing on what happens. This is just the outcome of all the actions that have taken place. This is how history will record these events.

Agent_Engelbert,

This is such a great way to look at the situation from a different angle. This is actually insightful.

Rentlar, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

In a war situation like that, how possibly can one appear less threatening than being unarmed, mostly unclothed with a flag of surrender?

The IDF literally killed the people they were purportedly trying to save…

If this is how they treat hostages on their side, how can I believe that they aren’t indiscriminately killing civilians?

therealjcdenton, in Protesters Shut Down Los Angeles Highway to Demand Ceasefire in Gaza

It was Hamas that broke the ceasefire that was already in place. And it’s Hamas’s war on Israel not the reverse

frshmt,

Brand new account shilling for Israel…not sketchy at all

Chainweasel, in Protesters Shut Down Los Angeles Highway to Demand Ceasefire in Gaza

I don’t disagree that the conflict has to stop, but I don’t see how anyone can force a ceasefire between two separate independent countries. What action do they think the US can take to force this situation? No matter what you offer or withhold it’s still ultimately up to the individual parties involved.

Linkerbaan,

America only cares about money. This shit costs them HUGE money.

This is exactly how you stop the war by shutting down infrastructure.

Chainweasel, (edited )

Ok, but this war is between Israel and Hamas, what can America do about it other than what they’ve always done and bomb the shit out of both sides?
It’s like protesting in Toronto because they don’t like a new policy in Tokyo.

drislands,

True, though the US is one of the biggest suppliers, if not the biggest, for Israel’s military.

PersnickityPenguin,

The US just vetoed a ceasefire agreement in the UN security council.

LibertyLizard, in Protesters Shut Down Los Angeles Highway to Demand Ceasefire in Gaza
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

Regardless of your feelings on the conflict, blocking freeways is beneficial even if done for no reason at all. Urban highways were a mistake and never should have been built. Every minute they continue normal operation is a minute they continue destroying our neighborhoods, poisoning the innocent and vulnerable who live nearby, and destroying the future for our descendants.

So I commend these activists and hope we see more of this.

AceTKen,
@AceTKen@lemmy.ca avatar

No matter the outcome of this, nobody is learning that lesson from this demonstration.

If you want to take a (more obvious) environmental bent, this is a terrible idea for them to do because all they’re doing is causing vehicles to have to run substantially longer.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

This assumes the same number of people will use them, just more slowly. But this is quite obviously false if you think it through. If the highway is so backed up you can’t get onto it then you won’t use it, will you? I would be fairly confident that this more than offsets the idling engines. Covid was a big eye opener in realizing how much traffic actually protects us from the real dangers of unfettered high speed traffic.

This individual protest may only have a small effect but it seems we’re seeing more of these as time goes on, and the more often they happen, the bigger the impact.

AceTKen, (edited )
@AceTKen@lemmy.ca avatar

That might be what you wish they are learning, but I assure you that’s not the case. There may be more of those Highway blocking protests that you’re thinking about, but you’re simply hearing about them spread across many, many locations. They are not occurring frequently enough in one location to warrant a change to the way people commute. I have never even heard of anybody linking those two points together before.

If they’re blocking a highway, it’s not like you can just see the protest up ahead and turn off instead instead of choosing to be stuck. Often they are held in the middle of long stretches where they will trap as man cars as they are able on both sides.

And the lesson most people learned from COVID was that there was absolutely no reason why we couldn’t work from home. Although I could potentially see a link between working from home and, when the time comes to replace the infrastructure, replacing it with something more environmentally sane… but they’d have to convince big business owners to not force people to come into work for no reason, and good luck with that.

It seems like there’s a lot of wishful thinking to get from “those protesters are blocking this street” to “man, we should completely redo the entire infrastructure of North America because of these protests.”

Anticorp, in Protesters Shut Down Los Angeles Highway to Demand Ceasefire in Gaza

Do they understand that the conflict is between two separate countries and neither of them is the USA?

Celediel,

You forgot about the nearly $4 billion USD worth of military aid every year.

Anticorp,

They’re US allies. They’ve been receiving that aid long before the hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking an EDM festival and killing a thousand civilians. The conflict over there is a terrible situation, but fucking up people’s commutes 7500 miles away from the conflict zone accomplishes nothing except for ruining those people’s days, and possibly causing them massive hardship.

OccamsTeapot, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

So many pieces of news just establish that the IDF is full of pussies. “He’s waving a white flag… WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! TAKE HIM OUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD”

DashboTreeFrog,

But seriously, I do imagine they’ve been fed enough propaganda about “the enemy” willing to do anything that naked people with a white flag can still look like Hamas trying to trick them. Fucked up

dRLY,
@dRLY@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Two things that IDF and US law enforcement share is both being scared 24/7, and constantly going out of their way to do everything possible to paint civilians as active enemy combatants/terrorists. Yet they always like to say shit like “if you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to fear” to us. Also love to do everything to give off the air of being such “badasses protecting the masses”. Fuck all of them, and they will certainly have much to fear once the masses start to actually come for them. Not very leftist of me to say, but if they are finally taken I can only hope that they are not given fast or painless ends. As they had their chance to stand with the masses and chose to be lapdogs for zionists/fascists/the oppressors of the working classes. Reactionaries are pussies and take out their rage on everyone they feel is weaker than they are.

SuddenDownpour, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

“They’re all without shirts and they have a stick with a white cloth on it. The soldier feels threatened and opens fire. He declares that they’re terrorists. They (the Israeli forces) open fire. Two (hostages) are killed immediately,” the official told reporters in a phone briefing.

The third hostage was wounded and retreated into a nearby building where he called for help in Hebrew, the official said.

“Immediately the battalion commander issues a ceasefire order, but again there’s another burst of fire towards the third figure and he also dies,” the official said. “This was against our rules of engagement,” he added.

But remember, not a genocide.

s1ndr0m3,

The IDF’s policy seems to be, “Kill them all. Let Yahweh sort them out.”

Koof_on_the_Roof,

I think you’re technically correct in this instance.

NoneOfUrBusiness, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

Their only mistake here was shooting the guy who spoke Hebrew. Everything else is just Tuesday for the IDF.

guriinii, in Israeli hostages killed in Gaza were holding white flag, official says

Probably standard IDF practice considering they’ve been doing this to Palestinian civilians since they entered Gaza.

avidamoeba,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah, I don’t see why the practice would be any different apart from someone having to account for the deaths since they were Israeli citizens and they happened before too many witnesses in this instance.

AdamEatsAss, in Protesters Shut Down Los Angeles Highway to Demand Ceasefire in Gaza

I always feel conflicted when I see things like this. On one side good for them, they found a way to get their message across to a nation news. But on the other hand they are intentionally disrupting infrastructure people rely on everyday. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people want global change, but I do think it is a bad thing that people feel powerless to influence this change so they have to resort to more disruptive methods like this. More representation in the federal government could help prevent this.

Serialchemist,

Also conflicted: I don’t think the disruption itself is a bad thing if it’s disrupting a part of society that derives benefit from the whatever is being protested against.

That said, I’m not sure how disrupting traffic in Los Angeles is going to affect the change they want to see. You can’t get much further from Washington DC than the West Coast.

ChapulinColorado,

This is the dumbest way to protest. Out of the book of any publicity is good publicity: “any protest is a good protest”.

EatYouWell,

Also, the US government isn’t the Israeli government.

Also also, Biden is a zionist, so it’s not like he’s going to change his stance because of a traffic jam in LA.

bamboo,

A non-disruptive protest just gets ignored. You need to impact people’s daily lives to make them think why the problem arose in the first place.

BraveSirZaphod,
@BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

I'm not really asking you to look it up or anything, but this gets parroted around a lot, and I wonder if there's actually any data to really support it or if it's just a statement that kinda sounds nice.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

I mean maybe not data but it's telling that almost every successful movement goes beyond the "quietly protest on the side of the road" step.

gregorum,

This post itself provides a new data point as a piece of evidence to support that claim. There is a news article written about it, and we are talking about it.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

What does a non-disruptive protest even look like? The entire purpose of protest is to be disruptive, and every protest is disruptive in some way.

bartolomeo,

Adding a flag to your profile pic.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

I wouldn’t consider that a form of protest personally. Just a way of expressing support.

EatYouWell,

But, you need to impact the lives of the people who have the means to make that change. A traffic jam isn’t going to do that.

bamboo,

I mean, is a major highway in the second largest city of the primary colonial sponsor a bad place? I guess if we had free teleportation they might find marginally better success in DC or Tel Aviv, but if you’re located in LA I can see why you’d choose to protest there and not somewhere else.

gregorum,

If it happened in a vacuum, probably not. But traffic jams don’t happen in a vacuum. They ripple out and cause effects that hit millions of other people. Such as this news article, this lemmy post, and all of the people here discussing it.

njm1314,

Traffic jam equals lots of news coverage lots of pissed off voters, lots of attention lots of eyes, that is how you get to people who can make a change.

EmoBean,

“Fuck shit up for a many people as possible” isn’t sustainable. Gandhi and Martin Luther knew that. If it weren’t for the number of downvotes people are getting for even hinting that this isn’t the right way to do things, I would think this is actually a psyop from the other side to put people off towards Palestine.

Like just stop oil is actually run by oil companies to recruit the most extreme left people that think sitting in the road is doing anything more than pissing the average person off and giving right wing media material to hate you.

But nope, people really are this stupid. On both sides. Both want to divide so strongly, because if people actually got along we would start addressing issues instead of bitching online about what you hate about the other side.

njm1314,

You think Gandhi and Martin Luther King didn’t disrupt things? My god of course they did they were extremely disruptive. You’ve fallen for the whitewash history, were they teach you to be good little boys who sit down out of the way and don’t bother anyone. It’s fiction. It’s not real. Martin Luther King was disrupting a ton of stuff Gandhi even more so.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

This is one of the most historically inaccurate things I think I’ve ever seen.

Schmoo,

Here’s a quote from Martin Luther King that says exactly what he thinks of people like you:

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

EmoBean,

Guess that’s why the government assassinated him. But no, don’t talk to me about what I believe. Make assumptions because my think =/= your think.

bartolomeo,

Bro they said Martin Luther

God does not need your good works, but your neighbor does.

bartolomeo,

I swear you “both sides bad” guys have worms in your brain.

Left: “no genocide!”

Right: “genocide!”

EmoBean: “akschually you’re both stupid wrong idiots we need to be doing some genocide maybe one day you’ll be as smart as me”

Goferking0,

People will find a way to get mad at any protest no matter how little it impacts others. See kneeling for anthems or just wearing shirts at events

reversebananimals,

And a disruptive protest just makes people hate you and your cause.

BlameThePeacock,

I don’t have a problem with people disrupting traffic to protest, I have a problem with people doing it for a purpose that the government can’t actually achieve, with only a few people, or in places that don’t make sense for the cause.

If you want to disrupt it over some local (to at least the country) issue, and you have enough popular support to host an actual rally with hundreds or thousands of marchers blocking the road, go right ahead and disrupt traffic. If you’re marching about the environment, rally at a park then march to a government office. If you’re marching about police brutality, go sit down outside a police station.

Unfortunately, The US government is not the Israeli government. The most they could do is exert pressure on Israel, which to be fair is quite a lot of pressure given it’s the US, but I highly doubt that Israel would stop immediately even if the US asked them to. In this case, from the pictures, they also only had enough people to make a single line across the road. The location isn’t relevant to anything either.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Just gonna say: Reagan stopped the bombing of Beirut with a phone call.

BlameThePeacock,

After the bombings? That would have been done by primarily US troops, so of course he could stop it with a phone call.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

After the what? We're talking about Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982 here.

BlameThePeacock,

I thought you might be referring to the 1983 attacks.

I was a little underdeveloped at that age to be aware of everything going on.

Doesn’t look like he stopped anything though, given that fighting continued despite the ceasefire for a few more years, and that Israel still attacks Lebanon on a regular basis because of Hezbollah.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

He didn't stop the conflict as a whole, but he stopped the bombing of west Beirut itself.

That bombing was followed by a protest to the Israeli government by President Ronald Reagan. Within 20 minutes of a phone call between Reagan and Begin, in which the former said the bombings were going too far and needed to stop, Begin ordered the bombings stopped.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • random
  • uselessserver093
  • Food
  • [email protected]
  • aaaaaaacccccccce
  • test
  • CafeMeta
  • testmag
  • MUD
  • RhythmGameZone
  • RSS
  • dabs
  • oklahoma
  • Socialism
  • TheResearchGuardian
  • Ask_kbincafe
  • KbinCafe
  • SuperSentai
  • feritale
  • KamenRider
  • All magazines