sturmblast, (edited )

I’ve been gradually shifting over to Linux ever since Windows 10 launched and even back in the days of Windows 7 really and the further Microsoft gets from its roots the closer I get to Linux.

lefixxx,

They are giving up on UWP? Fuck yeah

kalanthil,

That’s a really well written article.

Looks like I’ll be going Linux. Better OS for casual use anyway.

Smacks,
@Smacks@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • ram,
    @ram@bookwormstory.social avatar

    I’ll switch to Linux the moment Playnite gets a native working port on Linux and not a moment sooner. All my laptops run some flavour of Linux, but my gaming… I need playnite, it’s just so nice to use.

    DerisionConsulting,

    You don’t really need to learn any commands for distros like Mint Linux or Pop!OS. For most people, they could switch without even really noticing that much of a change.

    If you require specific programs for work, I would not recommend making the change at this time.

    fl42v,

    Idk, like if the average person is the one who uses the os as a bootloader for $whatever_browser, then there’s little to no difference. And if some windows-specific software is necessary, then windows is just way easier, I guess (wine works fine for me personally, tho).

    On the other hand, if you want the os to behave the way you want, then Linux is way simpler.

    tunahanyilmaz,
    @tunahanyilmaz@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve stayed away from Windows 11 because of the bloatware and TPM requirements. Turns out, my old processor that was rejected by Microsoft actually had TPM 2.0, it just needed to be enabled from the BIOS. Well, I installed it a few days ago and everything look great. The bloatware was a problem but there are FOSS apps for that. The UI looks clean, the taskbar is uncluttered, and I feel stupid for not updating before. I don’t know if I’m the minority here but I think that for most users Windows 11 is easier and more accessible.

    pewnit,

    I updated as soon as I could. I’ve loved it since day one and now with Copilot it’s even better. I love it.

    MrScottyTay,

    I would say there’s less bloatware that win10. None of that weird candy crush shit they pulled. I personally prefer 11, I use it on my work laptop but because of the TPM requirement my gaming PC that I had recently got a new motherboard for just before the requirements were announced, I’m still stuck on 10 with that.

    ours,

    Strange about your motherboard. I have an older one and just had to enable it via BIOS. I’ve heard some support it as an add-on module.

    MrScottyTay,

    No internal tpm and no slot from what i can tell.

    Toes,

    If you have an 8th gen Intel / Ryzen 2000 series or newer.

    You need to confirm that you have secure boot enabled. CSM disabled and the TPM features enabled. Depending on which setting is holding you back you may need to reconfigure your existing windows installation to boot again.

    SnipingNinja,

    I did too, until I got a new PC 😐

    Romkslrqusz,

    Windows 11 definitely has its issues, but I don’t think the author of this article has sufficient knowledge to be writing articles about it.

    There’s not a great solution for switching to UEFI in an existing install

    MBR2GPT is baked into Windows and works great as long as you don’t have a jacked up partition layout.

    Windows 11 demands a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0 security coprocessor, which isn’t in many PCs that meet all the other requirements.

    Part of the reason that Intel 8xxx and Ryzen 2xxx processors are the baseline “requirement” is that they have fTPM 2.0 embedded in the silicon. It’s actually in the overwhelming majority of devices that meet the other requirements.

    There appears to be no loss in functionality when bypassing the installation requirements… so why do they exist?

    Microsoft could provide a more limited Windows 11 experience to PCs that don’t meet the strict requirements

    Microsoft doesn’t go out of their way to hide the fact that you can install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.

    By providing and sanctioning a “limited” experience, Microsoft would then have to dedicate resources to supporting that experience. I’ve worked with tons of legacy devices that had odd quirks that required workarounds in Windows 10, so I can’t really blame them for wanting to limit how they spend their support resources.

    ddkman,

    No, you can’t blame them. You also can’t blame people for not upgradeing. The truth is picking totally arbitrary install requirements, especially ones that favour new hardware to high end ones alienated the early adopter base. Also microsoft killed any goodwill againtst them by bloating windows even more.

    ours,

    It’s not arbitrary. Securing an OS today is a huge challenge and Microsoft wants to leverage this tech to facilitate this. New hardware supports it, a lot of older hardware supports it and they strongly encourage this as the new standard.

    Yes it means some people won’t update without workarounds but they are setting a standard moving forward and for supported hardware, they were quite aggressive with the upgrade (I had to make sure the TPM was disabled in BIOS on a machine I didn’t wish to upgrade early on).

    ddkman,

    What exactly is TPM used for in Windows 11?

    ours,

    I second MBR2GPT. With a guide it’s quite straightforward to migrate from BIOS to EUFI but probably too scary for the average user.

    Cocodapuf,

    All I have to say: Windows 7 forever!

    stolid_agnostic,

    It is still, to me, the height of their design language.

    RickyRigatoni,
    @RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml avatar

    I just miss translucent ui :(

    ours,

    Botnets and malware rejoice!

    weedazz,

    Windows 7 with “God Mode” was the most I’ve ever enjoyed the start menu search bar. I miss it so much

    HidingCat,

    ITT: People who just read the headlines and not the article, and then going off on their own Windows rant/Linux evangelism instead of discussing the article.

    riskable,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    I read the article! It suggests in a hundred different ways that Windows 11 sucks and that sticking it out with Windows 10 is a bad idea for a dozen different reasons.

    The people here suggesting Linux nailed it. If you’re not using Linux at this point you’re just being lazy, IMHO. If you have any issues you can always just troubleshoot and fix it but based on the anecdotes posted so far it’s obvious no one claiming to have tried Linux has done much of that.

    Get off your ass and learn something new for real or stop bitching and bend over for Microsoft with your wallet ready to pay them afterwards for the privilege.

    People bitching about Windows on their personal PCs is like people who don’t vote bitching about politics.

    HidingCat,

    No, I just want to use my time in other ways, thank you. You can call it lazy, but that's what it is. Windows 10 still works, the issues won't come till 2025, and regardless, Windows 11 issues are mostly personal preferences (I just want my task bar to work in a certain way).

    This religious-like evangelising over Linux is such a turn off, regardless of whatever technical merits the OS might have. It's definitely not moving the needle for me, and it's turning me off the fediverse.

    zammy95,

    Linux has tons of perks! If you don’t care, awesome! Have a nice day and enjoy whatever you want.

    I don’t see how this is a difficult concept for so many haha. Like yeah, you can like something and think it’s a better way to do something, but I do LOADS of things the “wrong way”. Who cares

    HidingCat,

    That's why the Linux crowd here I describe as evangelical. I'm going to say that even the vegans aren't as annoyingly zealous.

    rivalary,

    It’s just something that people are excited about. It’s also mind-boggling how people complain so much about a product but refuse to replace it. Yeah, I get it how there’s software that only runs on Windows; this is something that should be fixed. We shouldn’t be stuck on a shitty OS with no other options due to required software. That’s the thing about Linux, you can customize it to be whatever you want, whereas you’re stuck with whatever Microsoft gives you with Windows. Just the idea that a single company has control over everything is wrong. I don’t really care if Linux wins out in the end, I just want choice in what OS I can run. That’s it.

    UPGRAYEDD,

    www.startallback.com

    This fixed most my issues with windows 11.

    corbin,

    Linux is great but it’s not always an option. It doesn’t run every app or game that Windows has (Proton is great but it’s not 100%), or maybe you’re doing dev work that has to be on a Windows machine, or you’re using some hardware that isn’t supported well in Linux. I switched off Linux to Windows (and then later to macOS) partially because Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty great tools for my job and the workarounds/alternatives weren’t cutting it.

    hperrin, (edited )

    That’s funny cause the last time I told my friend Alex that I couldn’t switch to Windows because it doesn’t run the Linux apps I need, he was like, “well you can use WSL, which can run Linux apps in Windows”. I would describe it the same way, it’s great, but it’s not 100%.

    Pasta4u,

    Every half a decade or so since windows 95 I have tried Linux and I have come to the same conclusion each time. I rather use windows 95.

    cyberpunk007,

    If it’s not gaming I’m dual booting into Linux as my primary productivity OS. Even then, a lot of the games I play do run perfectly fine under Linux. Been going strong with this since 2015 and I don’t have much negative to say about it. Ymmv

    Pasta4u,

    Only place it works fine for me is steam deck. Otherwise I just use windows unless I have to service a Linux machine at work.

    AProfessional,

    Sounds like you just love Win 95.

    Modern Linux is a boring, just works, OS like any other IME.

    Pasta4u,

    Sure I do, its better than linux

    massivefailure, (edited )

    If you’re not using Linux at this point you’re just being lazy

    I used Linux for over twenty years and stopped about two years ago due to Linux invariably moving to lazy, poor development and design all the way from the kernel up. Rapid kernel development with tons of random new patches and ideas instead of the old way of maintaining a stable kernel and doing random patches and ideas on a separate branch (the odd minor versions vs. the stable even ones, and even the modern “stable” kernels are just the same branch of constantly rapid updated kernels where they just choose one at random and say “this is ‘stable’ now and we’ll keep patching it instead of telling people to install new ones”), systemd being more of a problem than a solution, the push for everything to move to Wayland forcing every single thing that has to do with lower level desktop interfaces, including all of the lightweight window managers, to completely rewrite themselves with tons of bloat that replaces everything X.org did by default as well as Wayland’s devs taking a “it works on my computer” approach to bugs and dismissing tons of major issues people have found, pipewire still not being a stable, reliable audio system (Linux has never had one, but using ALSA with the right hardware back in the day where everything would mix via hardware was a decent solution), distros becoming more and more unreliable and buggy (even “stable” and “long term support” ones), distros and developers giving up on native and running bare metal applications and substituting things like flatpak to run things natively with any sort of cross-platform reliability and fucking wine – essentially a new version of Windows running in Linux, which is an admission of failure to make a successful game platform if I’ve ever heard one – to run games, and on and on.

    I’ve been able to use Linux very well until a few years back. I used to be one of its biggest advocates and wouldn’t dare run Windows.

    No more. People bitch, moan, and complain about Windows 11 so much but for me, it just works. Simply, easily, no problem. Do I wish I still used Linux? Hell, yes. But am I given how bad it’s become? Nope. I’ve even tried going back here and there and quickly ran into the same huge list of problems and aches that were never there before and back to Windows I go.

    Sorry, Linux is a pain and it’s not about being lazy, it’s about wanting to use a decent OS that just works as well as Linux used to.

    hperrin,

    I’ve been using Linux since 2008, and yours and my experience is basically opposite. I stayed on X until about a year ago, and haven’t had any problems with Wayland. PipeWire was basically immediately better as soon as Fedora switched to it. I could use Jack plugins and patch bays with my pulse apps, including all the electron apps, like Discord. Systemd has always been better than sys5 init. Maybe you don’t remember how bad the old init daemon was.

    I’m sorry you had trouble with Linux though.

    rivalary,

    Ditto here. I always felt that the desktop environments were just way less polished than Windows, but I feel like it’s been the reverse now with KDE Plasma for the past couple years. I don’t feel like I’m taking a lesser experience for the sake of having control over my computer, at least anymore.

    I would actually like if Windows went back to the Windows 7 era of… everything. At least there’d be some competition to Linux. Where it’s sitting right now with both Windows 10 and 11, I’d take a lesser experience under Linux if it meant that Microsoft wasn’t in charge of everything. It’s my computer.

    BestBouclettes,

    Putting this burden straight on the consumer is stupid. Most people don’t care about what’s running on their machines and have absolutely no interest in learning it. Same thing with cars, you know how to operate it and that’s enough for 95% of the people. I agree that Linux is not that hard to learn and understand but that’s already too much for the standard consumer.

    The issue is and has always been with Microsoft and the deals it had with OEM and governments. It locked us into a Microsoft only world (office being absolutely everywhere, windows installed by default on 99% of hardware etc.), and things that were unveiled by the Halloween Papers etc… Microsoft changed its stance on FOSS but it’s only because they managed to profit from it (azure mostly). It’s still the same garbage company.

    corbin,

    A certified Lemmy/Reddit classic.

    TheMinions,

    I think it’s just an internet classic at this point.

    Lucidlethargy,

    I hardly ever saw Linux evangelism on Reddit. It’s honestly becoming about on par with veganism at this point… And that’s coming from someone that uses and enjoys Linux.

    rivalary,

    I see it more of a response of the dumpster fire that is Windows and Microsoft.

    nuzzlerat,

    I was on Reddit for over a decade and it definitely used to have way more Linux evangelism until the site became more mainstream

    ThePizzaTimeBandit,

    This. I was on reddit since earlier digg 4.0. the alonux snobs were overwhelming then. Gradually they went into deeper subreddits

    nuzzlerat,

    damn you’re a real OG. And by quite a bit based on those double spaces there (either that or you’re a lawyer lol)

    hperrin,

    I read the article and I still evangelize Linux.

    servermonky,

    A someone running a proxmox cluster on my gaming PCs, why not just use all of the above? Hell, I still have an XP VM on there somewhere for some particularly grouchy games.

    HidingCat,

    Don't see a need, basically. What games require XP though? So far all my old games still work on 10.

    greybeard,

    XP was the last Windows OS that supported 16 bit code if I recall correctly, so there’s that. Although most games that needed that are better off with something like DOSbox.

    HidingCat,

    Ah yes, I suppose there's that, and I've been running the really old games on Dosbox too.

    doleo,

    I don't need to read this article to know that the Taskbar Calendar/Agenda Flyout is still missing.

    HidingCat,

    Man, they took that out from Windows 10? That was such a handy thing to have.

    doleo,

    And 'replaced' it with widgets that spam you with unremovable, gutter-press, shite

    Sprite,
    @Sprite@lemmy.ml avatar

    I swear I’m not a Linux snob, but Linux is legitimely better for the average user than Windows. If you just need to use a browser, as MANY people do, Linux is more lenient on hardware and doesn’t lock you into an update screen of helplessness. I highly recommend ZorinOS, it has an option specifically for older machines.

    HC4L,

    Sorry but I hate this argument. Most people use a phone for that anyway. And my 70 year old mom is going to ask my dad and if he can’t fix the problem someone else and guess what. They never worked with Linux. I can tell you that a lot of the buttons and controls have looked the same in Windows for way too long. Admittedly from Windows 10/11 this gets worse.

    Also they will need software from the local photo place, some shit old legacy app that they refuse to let go, banking software that isn’t Linux compatible… it’s never “just browsing” from my experience and it’s not worth the hassle. Especially if I’m cornering myself by becoming the only 24/7 on-call admin for my family.

    hperrin, (edited )

    I switched my mom to Linux back in 2014, and she hasn’t had problems with it (except every 2 years when she makes me update her to the new version of Ubuntu, because she doesn’t want to do it herself). My dad has tried to switch her back to Windows, but she likes Ubuntu better. He eventually switched too after he retired and we built him a computer. He uses it for browser+light gaming, and Linux works well for both now. (He was familiar with Linux as part of his job, so it wasn’t hard for him to get used to the switch. Though he was really only familiar with the terminal.)

    TrickDacy,

    Your argument sounds like it was formed in 2005 when desktop software was the rule and not the exception

    librechad,

    Debian is very stable, and its also pretty easy to update and have long term stability. You can just click a button to update or have it automated. If all they’re doing is browsing, Debian should be sufficent, plus, it’s free.

    Neon,

    generally would have agreed with you but since i got a new Monitor i have had nothing but Problems.

    Granted i don’t make it Easy for Linux by having 3 monitors at 4K:60Hz 1440p:144Hz 1080p:60Hz but still

    all my Browsers always crash. I assume it has to do with Scaling since they like to especially crash when i move them between monitors. Then Gnome randomly crashes. It’s a nightmare.

    was forced to come back to Windows 11 because of all that Bullshit. I guess the upside is much better Security on Windows, but still. Although that added Security is pretty useless since every fucking Program needs administrator rights for some inconceivable reason.

    Sprite,
    @Sprite@lemmy.ml avatar

    I don’t use Gnome, as I had other issues with it. I solely use KDE with Wayland on endeavourOS (so Arch). I have multi monitor issues on W10 at work and I’m waiting to upgrade to W11. I’d request Linux, but due to the project I cannot. I’ve heard plenty of bad stuff about Gnome crashing for people and had it crash for me as well. I’d recommend giving KDE a try if you aren’t too tired of trying, but I respect your choice of W11. Most people don’t have multiple screens though. I don’t recommend Linux to niche users, since they may have niche needs.

    f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4,

    NVIDIA card?

    Neon,

    Nvidia Card.

    librechad,

    I’ve never had a virus on Linux. How is Windows more secure?

    Also, I have the same type of setup, make sure you have the right display driver installed for your graphics card.

    hperrin,

    It’s easier than ever to switch to Linux, especially if the thing holding you back was gaming.

    Neon,

    i actually switched back to Windows from Linux because it didn’t work well with different resolutions and scaling and my Programs kept crashing.

    hperrin,

    Interesting. Were you running Windows programs with Wine?

    Neon,

    Nope. Flatpaks and native Nix Packages.

    Browsers and Steam would just randomly crash. I think it has something to do with scaling because the Programs always crash when i move them from Monitor to Monitor.

    hperrin,

    I’ve heard a few people say scaling was an issue for them. It hasn’t been for me, and I run various multi monitor setups, so maybe I’ve been lucky. Did you try enabling Gnome’s experimental scaling? I always do, and supposedly that’s been enabled as default in Gnome 45.

    Neon,

    No, i actually didn’t even know that exists. Might try it out again on my secondary SSD

    HeyLow,

    Prob a gnome issue, I’ve never had an issue with scaling on kde, xfce, or i3 with my 4 monitors

    DudeDudenson, (edited )

    Inb4 “it’s your fault” comments

    CeeBee,

    I saw in your other comment that you were using Gnome. A lot of people like it, but Gnome wouldn’t be my recommendation.

    I use a multi-monitor setup not that different from yours, and KDE handles it swimmingly. I also have an Nvidia card and I’m using X.org. I probably could use Wayland, but I’m in no rush.

    If you really want to stay with a GTK desktop, then XFCE is excellent also. Budgie too.

    Neon,

    I tried Plasma, but that just ended in my 1080p Monitor freezing and turning off. Gnome did that too, but much much much rarer.

    So yeah, Linux just doesn’t like me.

    I am planning to move to a VR-Setup anyways, using my computer with “Virtual Desktop”.

    And that sadly isn’t available on Linux.

    FeelThePower,

    same here. switched back after years of dual booting because on all my DEs over the years I consistently had these issues, not to mention I make music and daws fucking hate Linux / wine. just made sure to debloat it before I used it.

    Gorgeous_Sloth,

    Feels like everyone advising to switch to Linux for gaming actually doesn’t play a bit on Linux

    hperrin,

    I stream the games I play on Linux. Feel free to check out my channel: twitch.tv/SylphWeed

    Latest I played through was Horizon: Zero Dawn.

    Gorgeous_Sloth,

    My point is not that you can’t, it’s just that it’s not ideal. I’m not willing to lose performances when it comes to gaming.

    hperrin, (edited )

    Most games I’ve tried run either the same on Linux or sometimes better. One has been worse on Linux, and it wasn’t performance, it just always disconnected from multiplayer after about ten minutes. That was Halo: Master Chief Collection, and there is a fix, I just don’t play it enough to bother.

    Playing on Linux is absolutely ideal for me because I work on Linux. I also watch media on Linux. Switching to Windows just to play games would be super annoying. I’m glad that Linux runs games just as well as Windows now. For ten years after I switched, I just didn’t play PC games, because it was too much of a hassle. Since 2018 when Proton came out, it’s not a hassle anymore. Just install Steam, install game, click play.

    I dual boot now, because I started making cross platform desktop apps, so I have to have Win/Mac/Lin, and I’ve tried all my games on the same hardware with Windows. There’s no advantage to Windows anymore. If you’re a fanboy, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. But you seem to have preconceived notions about Linux which just aren’t true.

    (Also, in case you’re wondering, it’s the older games, like DX9 and lower, that tend to work a lot better on Linux. Sometimes Windows won’t even run them.)

    OrekiWoof,

    Haven’t encountered a single game that doesn’t work since being on Linux for over a year, though they surely exist, and I’ve played at least 30. The only things annoying me is that I have to reconnect my steering wheel after I start Dirt Rally 2.0 to have Force Feedback, and that I can’t tab out of League of Legends and instead have to minimize it with win+down.

    Lucidlethargy,

    Yeah, no. You still can’t play as many games on Linux. Linux is wonderful for network related tasks, though! And it is certainly getting much better at supporting games.

    a_fancy_kiwi,

    I could probably tolerate Windows 11 if:

    • the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
    • the widget panel wasn’t just a wrapper for their shitty news aggregator that seems to only gather celebrity news
    • If I have windows pro, I don’t want notifications to use Edge or see TikTok, Amazon, Candycrush, etc. in the start menu (I know they aren’t downloaded but what “pro” wants any of that shit)
    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

    the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.

    Windows 10 has the same problem, that one isn’t unique to 11.

    Widgets I don’t think there’s anything that can save that. 10% of the space is set aside for actual widgets, the rest is just their “news”.

    rivalary,

    Windows 10 was the start of the enshittification. Windows 7 was the best version of Windows, by far.

    mitrosus,

    Or 8. 8.1, actually.

    rivalary,

    Ah, I skipped 8 and 8.1 but I didn’t really hear much complaining at the time.

    Neeen,

    I used a regedit to fix the web search part of it. Starallback is what I use to fix the rest of it. After that, it’s almost like I’m using Windows 10.

    Changing audio output does still take an extra click compared to before, but I’ve just been dealing with that.

    HidingCat,

    Searching the web isn't that bad, it's on the bottom anyway, no? Or did they change that in Win11?

    Still waiting for my taskbar changes, mainly.

    a_fancy_kiwi,

    This is definitely a personal preference thing but I think if you want to search the web, you go to the web browser. And if you want to search for a folder or file on the system, windows search should fulfill that purpose.

    At the very least, it should be a toggle. The current implementation of Windows search feels like it’s only there to force people to use Edge

    thepianistfroggollum,

    There are debloating tools that do all of that for you in just a few clicks.

    sexual_tomato,

    But why is that even necessary

    thepianistfroggollum,

    Because Microsoft subsidizes the price of Windows by selling ad space. Legit XP and 7 licenses were far more expensive.

    Nelots,

    As others mentioned, there are ways to disable all of this shit incredibly easily. ShutUp10++ is my personal choice for debloating Windows 10 & 11. Now, should it need to be done in the first place? No, but I’d say installing the program is easier than learning a whole new operating system.

    nabladabla,

    They used to say that 10 would be the last version and they’d just update that

    Raxiel,

    Apparently that was never the official line, and was just something a “dev evangelist” (marketer) said at some conference and it stuck

    possiblylinux127,

    I say we boycott windows 11

    Rai,

    Already with ya! I’m never touching 11. I still use 10 for games, but debloated and telemetry disabled.

    When I reformat I’m going Linux, with a small 10 partition for VR/games that run better on Windows.

    itsraining,

    I say we boycott Windows

    hperrin,

    I say we boycott

    itsraining,

    I say we

    riotrick,
    @riotrick@lemmy.world avatar

    Boy

    riskable,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    I said that in 1999 which was, coincidentally the year of the Linux desktop (for me).

    belathus,

    Oh man, been doing that for 10 years!

    NegativeLookBehind,
    @NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social avatar

    The Windows 11 problem

    The problem: Windows 11

    FTFY

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