Microsoft cuts ties with the Surface Duo after just 2 Android version updates

Microsoft is done supporting the original Surface Duo, three years after it first launched on September 10. The company has stated from the very start that the Surface Duo would receive just three years of OS updates, meaning today is the last day that Microsoft has to stay true to its word.

Going forward, Microsoft will no longer ship new OS updates or security patches for the original Surface Duo, meaning Android 12L is the last version of the OS it will ever officially receive. Surface Duo only ever got two major OS updates, one shy of the average three that most high-end flagship Android devices get these days.

sagrotan,
@sagrotan@lemmy.world avatar

By the way: I’m running Arch on my surface 3 and I’m loving it .

Desistance,

The continuation of why I don’t buy Microsoft hardware.

Blackmist,

I don’t think you get a lot more support than that on most Android devices. They’re generally pretty shit for continued updates, as they’d quite like you to throw away a perfectly good device the instant you’ve finished paying for it and get a shiny new one.

Desistance,

Samsung is the largest Android OEM in the West and they give 4 years of updates. Google does 3 major upgrades and 5 years of security patches. There’s no reason why a multibillion dollar legacy software giant can’t do the same.

Blackmist,

Google only used to do 3 years until the Pixel 6 in 2021.

The whole Android ecosystem is a complete mess. The fact that you need to rely on the device manufacturer for your updates is a nonsense idea.

Desistance,

IOS isn’t that much different. You still rely on Apple for updates.

Illuminostro,

It’s become obvious that their success with Xbox was pure dumb luck.

thorbot,

It’s really sad how dirty most companies seem to be doing the consumers when you’ve got Apple still pushing support for 6 year old phones. At least one company sets the standard. Now, can we get a Linux device that is a clone of the Surface Duo and has security updates for 5 years? Please?

Schlubbins,

Yeah, great standard setting by apple, supporting their users by intentionally slowing down their phones to encourage them to buy new ones.

Is the standard to attract class action lawsuits?

thorbot,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    hotdaniel,

    Bro, can you simp for apple harder? They tried to screw people over, got called out, and you’re running damage control.

    gregorum,

    TIL providing facts and dispelling disinformation = “simping”

    sndmn,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    gregorum, (edited )

    I didn’t imply anything— if you chose to infer something other than what I said, that’s on you, and the ignorance of others is not my job to correct.

    If you wanna whip yourself up into a frenzy over ignorant disinformation, that’s your right, but hatefully attacking others for it is petty and childish. 

    CapnAssHolo,

    Bro why u calling him pretty

    bob_wiley,
    @bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    menningeer,

    Typical misinformation. The lawsuits that worked are for Apple not informing people, not because Apple slowed down the phones. The ones that have been about the slowing down have either lost or been thrown out.

    Also, your logic doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying that a slow phone is more likely to encourage someone to buy a new phone versus a phone that constantly dies at random times?

    And if you wanted your phone back to full speed, all you had to do was replace your worn out battery. That seems like a dumb way to upsell someone on a phone if they can pay $100 for a new battery and have their phone back to full speed.

    TheGrandNagus,

    I actually mostly agree with you apart from one thing.

    Are you saying that a slow phone is more likely to encourage someone to buy a new phone versus a phone that constantly dies at random times?

    Yes. I think this could be true in a lot of cases.

    Personally, if I saw that my phone was dying at 50% battery but was otherwise fine, I’d think that my phone needs a new battery, and I’d weigh up my options between taking it to a service centre or buying a new phone.

    If my phone was rendered almost unusably slow, but died instead at 20%, I’d think my battery is a bit degraded, but that my phone is too slow to be useful after a battery swap anyway, and I’d jump straight to buying a new one. I wouldn’t know that the battery is what’s causing the slowness to begin with.

    IMO, as long as you inform the customer, option 2 is the best. Otherwise I’d prefer option 1.

    Schlubbins,

    If it was really beneficial to the consumer, Apple would have been advertising it before they were legally required to tell people about it.

    ribboo,

    You obviously do not live in a cold country. iPhones up until version 5-6 or so (when this was introduced) was notorious for turning off at 25-30% battery if it was slightly cold outside (sub 5 degree Celsius or so). It was a horrible experience that was completely removed by clocking down processors of battery worn phones.

    I’ve never heard of a person turning off the option now when we’ve got the choice either.

    It’s 100% beneficial to the customer.

    Though, they should’ve been clearer with what they did and added a toggle from the start. Which is why they were fined.

    menningeer,

    It was listed in an update change log.

    MrSpArkle,

    It’s amazing how in a story about Microsoft letting customers down, people feel compelled to make up bullshit about Apple.

    Viper_NZ,

    Apple reduced peak power limits on older phones with wrecked batteries. If they hadn’t, people would have had to put up with their phone crashing.

    SpaceNoodle,

    I stopped using the iPhone when Apple’s “support” involved rendering my 4S unusable. They set a standard, but it’s not consumer-friendly.

    601error,
    @601error@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m not even an Apple fan. If Android had the product support longevity and privacy of iOS, I’d consider it. But nope, we get disposable products and an icky privacy history. I wouldn’t call Apple great in either category. AFAIK there are no smartphone manufacturers who are.

    FrameXX, (edited )

    Regarding privacy on iOS, I recommend watching [this video] (www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHnBOUNxHsw). You can get more privacy on Android with some tweaking (custom ROMs, AdAway, uninstalling pre-installed bloatware, etc…). There are several ways to get more privacy, some easier than others. I know most people won’t even try. On the other hand, with iOS, you’re handing your privacy over to Apple in good faith, but you have far fewer options to take things into your own hands. People want privacy out of the box, but that often clashes with companies’ interest in making as much money as possible (simply put). Some companies use privacy as a selling point in their marketing campaign, but often it is just false advertising.

    mishimaenjoyer,
    @mishimaenjoyer@kbin.social avatar

    you call it "some tweaking" when in reality for 99,5% of android users it would be the same to tell them to get better performance on their cars if you just switch out the engine, do a custom paint job und replace the computer", just to have them finding out, it's not even possible because on most models the hood cannot be opened.

    Blackmist,

    When even Apple keep their stuff supported, you know everyone else is in the wrong.

    OscarRobin,

    Indeed but this highlights a fundamental issue with phones (and all devices): because Apple can continually monetize their devices with locked-in app stores and a litany of services etc they can easily afford and are incentivised to support devices for a long time.

    Device makers third-party to platform ecosystems, like Microsoft to Android (but not Windows) find it extremely difficult if not impossible to gain these sorts of long-term monetisation which incentivises maximizing profits on the sale and then immediately dropping support.

    Canuck,

    See Purism Librem 11 or Starlabs Starlite

    LEDZeppelin,

    Zune : Never forget

    query,

    Music players in general haven’t been doing well. Phones are too big to be proper replacements for all uses.

    havokdj,

    They’re doing pretty good, they just aren’t a huge market like they used to be. It is a niche market nowadays.

    Typically you only see people buying one for one of three reasons:

    1. They cannot have a phone/do not want a phone
    2. They want to separate music listening from their source of contact (getting a phone call forces you from the music)
    3. They chase higher fidelity audio (only the case with quality DAPs)

    4 (bonus). Phone has no headphone jack, but that’s usually only the case in conjunction with 3

    query,

    I still use my 2016 SE despite having a never phone. But I need pockets to carry that around, custom fit pockets if I want to be able to run with it without it being obstructive, because of how big even that old phone is.

    ours,

    3 and 4 can be fixed with a portable USB DAC/AMP. Lots of options there.

    havokdj,

    Try going on a run with one of those. I have them too but they both have their places.

    Plus in my experience, DAPs tend to be able to fit bigger amps in them than USB DACs which is good for driving less efficient headphones.

    CrypticFawn,
    @CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Gods I loved my Zune.

    If I could find a digital audio player like the Zune but with support for Tidal I’d be so happy.

    Killer,

    I know Fiio makes some music players, not sure about Tidal though.

    havokdj,

    WM1AM2, though if you’re fine with using Bluetooth streaming (LDAC) on the WM1A I’d recommend getting that and installing walkman one on it instead.

    I’d really rather not encourage the android based DAPs, it is good for a phone or tablet, but it makes the DAP part a bigger pain in the ass since they typically do NOT get updates to the base operating system, namely due to the fact that they have to design the audio component from the ground up. Linux based DAPs are a lot better in my experience.

    I’ll say that it is easier for me because I download most of my music, but I don’t have any problem streaming from my devices to my WM1A. Keep in mind you’re likely to be within earshot of these devices anyways because a DAP isn’t going to have a sim card, so it either needs WiFi or proximity to a device that does, but the benefit with LDAC is that you have your library accessible from those devices as well.

    CrypticFawn,
    @CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    WM1AM2

    The price alone makes that a non-start for me, but thank you for the recommendation nonetheless!

    havokdj,

    Yeah that’s kinda why I recommended the previous model. The amp is pretty much the same and you can get them on eBay in great condition for about $400. The A55 is also a great choice that can be had for about $150, however if you want something cheaper that can stream, I’d check out the HiBy R3 or R3II

    CrypticFawn,
    @CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I’ll look at those, thank you!

    systemguy_64,

    Pretty standard for Android phones. I don’t know of many that go to 3 versions besides the Pixel.

    As much as I dislike Apple, I do have to give it to them for software support. The oldest phone that has the current iOS is the iPhone 8, a phone from 2017. 6 years of updates. That makes it as old as a Pixel 2, and that only goes to Android 11, from 2020.

    lauha,

    My Samsung A71 from 2020 came with Android 10 and is currently on 13 and it’s a midrange model.

    GibSteamCodes,

    Same with my S20 FE.

    lauha,

    S20 is at least flagship

    phx,

    I’m having issues finding an article on how once installed Linux on a Surface Duo, but there’s a got page on building the kernels so I’m guessing it’s doable.

    Now that updates are done, maybe all the Linux users can find them for cheap and convert them

    Batbro,

    If you find it, please update me, I’ll snag one for sure

    AllHailTheSheep,

    both of y’all should try here: github.com/…/Installation-and-Setup

    Nanabaz2,

    Sadly this is just the Intel/x86 Surface. The Duo is an ARM devices and doesn’t work the same way.

    It’s like one needs some patches so some hw works properly. The other one needs rewrite most of stuff to barely function. That’s why so little Linux ARM device except ones made to run it in the first place. Generally ARM devices run Linux like able to run Android, but the other way around doesn’t always hold (more like 99.99% as seen in all Android phones)

    AllHailTheSheep,

    damn I didn’t realize they were arm devices, I assumed all surfaces were x86. thanks for the info!

    phx,

    More like a Pi than a Surface Pro architecture-wise, but there’s still plenty of cool Linux software that runs on that

    account_93,

    They used a Chip from 2018, So It was already “old” when they released the phone in 2020.

    Not making excuses for them and Qualcomm are equally as shit because they just drop support so quickly.

    I am aware of other chips that are supported longer than it.

    BrandonMatrick,

    As one of the 17 people on the planet who daily drives the Surface Duo 2, which I traded up from my SD1 for on launch day - I really hope they pull it together for this “maybe/maybe not” SD3 next winter.

    This is my all time favorite device I’ve ever owned, and every day I dread the standard wear and tear knowing the few New In Box Surface Duo 2 devices are getting more and more expensive by the day, and there are literally 0 devices in this category besides the SD2.

    Sad times.

    3l3s3,

    What category would that be, put of curiosity?

    BrandonMatrick,

    Pocketable, foldable tablet with split displays, a pen with haptic feedback and rigid glass screens for stylus use without damage. Modern Android and a great camera don’t hurt and those make the SD2 better than the SD1; otherwise they’re fairly similar besides the accessory compatibility and some halo functions like wirelessly charging my Slim Pen with the magnet case.

    I travel a ton, edit spreadsheets at clients site visits and trade shows while I have Teams open on the other screen, and use the stylus to mark up PDFs for architects and subcontractors. I enjoy being almost required to multi-task when I have my phone open, and the Duo 2 is the best phone for multitasking, bar-none.

    medgremlin,

    I treat mine more like a dual screen setup than a fold-able setup. As far as I’ve seen, none of the other folding phones work like that and my entire device ecosystem is tied together through OneDrive, so having it natively on the phone is awesome.

    3l3s3,

    Ah yes, I forgot that this has actual screens unlike most other foldables. Thanks for the sad reminder.

    thorbot,

    The one where it’s abandoned 2 years after it’s released. Fuck that

    Kit,

    I moved from the SD1 to the Samsung Fold and love it.

    BrandonMatrick,

    I’ve been considering the GFold5 if my SD2 bites the dust, at least over a Pixel Fold. But I’m making this thing run until it completely dies.

    I just worry about those plastic feeling screens, such as on my wife’s GFlex4- I’m always worried I’d scratch the interior with a fingernail and a stylus for editing a spreadsheet is just a no go, from what I understand. Have they improved in that regard?

    big_slap,

    I upgraded from the fold 2 to the fold 5, specifically for the pen support. the screen does feel more durable but it is still soft. I don’t fear the pen scratching it though.

    I will say, there have been many times I’ve taken the pen to draw something on the cover screen and get disappointed there’s no support for a pen on the cover screen. maybe the fold 6 will?

    Kit,

    I haven’t had any issues with the inner screen and it doesn’t feel soft to me. I didn’t even put a protector on it. I do pay for the extra Samsung insurance every month, tho.

    nexas_XIII,

    I bought a SD1 a year ago to use as my work phone. Not for emails and IM clients, but mainly as a secondary prepaid phone that work gets the number for if I’m on call. It’s been awesome and has also been a great little ebook reader. I’m kinda sad there are no more updates but I know I didn’t use it to it’s full capabilities.

    HidingCat,

    No OS updates is one thing, but no security patches is not great. The base Surface Duo can easily do another 2-3 years.

    corbin,

    Here’s hoping someone gets LineageOS ported.

    HidingCat,

    Yea, especially if this is a second machine for productivity. The Duo is hard to beat and Lineage will help it lots.

    Mindlight,

    Yup. Just like my Nexus 10. Even though no one loves it I still do…

    disconnectikacio,

    Never trust in microcrap

    Zima,

    they had a chance but decided to self sabotage . they have no chance now that they are using android. who would pick them over the real version?

    FlexibleToast,

    The “real version”? There is no “real version” of Android. I wouldn’t pick Microsoft specifically because they don’t have a track record of supporting their phones.

    Synthead,

    There is no “real version” of Android.

    Sure there is: source.android.com

    FlexibleToast,

    And what phone runs that source without manufacturer tweaks?

    Zima,

    If you want android you'd normally go with a phone that is supported by the main contributors /maintainers. doesn't even have to be made by google. but I think that was already pretty clear so you might just be a contrarian. please correct me if you actually had a point.

    FlexibleToast,

    I think I made the point pretty clear… There really isn’t a phone with the “real android” and it’s best to check the company’s track record of updates. It seems like you just reworded my point while missing that I just stated the same thing.

    Spider89,

    Linux time boiz!

    thorbot,

    Yeah lemme go buy that fire ass Linux phone thats a pocketable, foldable tablet with split displays, a pen with haptic feedback and rigid glass screens for stylus use and a great camera and has support for my office products and also isn’t totally busted half the time. Where is it? Because I legit would buy the fuck out of it

    skulblaka,
    @skulblaka@kbin.social avatar

    That's Android. You want an Android. Buy a Samsung and flash whatever rom you want onto it.

    thorbot,

    No it’s not. Android is shit

    skulblaka,
    @skulblaka@kbin.social avatar

    Android is literally Linux, and also you can put whatever custom rom you want on your phone. Write your own if it's that big a deal to you. Don't stick with stock Android, but if you want a customizable phone, that's your option. Microsoft and Apple don't give you the option for custom firmware. Android does.

    smileyhead, (edited )

    Android is literally Linux

    No, it isn’t. Can you install Flatpak apps on Android? Can you plug it in a monitor and run GIMP or desktop version of Firefox? Because actual Linux phones can.

    The difference is that Android phones only use Linux kernel and it is so much modified by SoC maker and OEM that by side effect it can’t run anything beside Android anymore. There are projects like PostmarketOS trying to port real (mainline) Linux on phones but it takes awful amount of work and supports like 5 phones still with no things like cameras. There are also systems like Droidian trying to strip Android to bare minimum and run Linux on top of it like an always-on-top app, but this also is only for a couple of phones.

    TheGrandNagus,

    Android is literally Linux

    It’s a heavily-forked version of Linux with so many changes that it’s not really Linux anymore.

    Is XboxOS literally windows?

    Is MacOS literally FreeBSD?

    Is PlayStationOS literally FreeBSD?

    Omg do MacBooks and PlayStations have the same OS?? I can play Ratchet and Clank on a MacBook???

    Android does not use an up to date, or mainline Linux kernel. It gets rid of most of the GNU core utils. It doesn’t use other big parts of Linux like Wayland or X11. I can’t install random Flatpaks on my Android phone. Etc etc.

    Calling Android “literally Linux” is incredibly misleading to the point of basically being a lie.

    imgonnatrythis,

    So the alternative to Microsoft is Google?

    I dunno, that sounds very Out of the frying pan and into the fires of hell to me.

    skulblaka,
    @skulblaka@kbin.social avatar

    No, the alternative is an open source rom on Samsung's hardware. No Google required, at least for now. Though I do expect that to get much more difficult in the future.

    Spider89,

    Try StarLite.

    dan1101,

    I didn’t even know any of the Surface products ran Android.

    LufyCZ,

    Just the phone

    ares35,
    @ares35@kbin.social avatar

    $1200 at launch, three years of updates. no wonder we're burying the planet in e-waste and plastic.

    Synthead,

    You know, I don’t disagree with vendors putting whatever hardware they want in their devices, and I don’t mind vendor-customized software. But what I do mind is the barrier of supporting these devices without relying on the vendor.

    If I buy an x86 computer, I can use it basically however long I want to. I can put a variety of operating systems on it, and I don’t really need to rely on vendors much aside from binary driver blobs, which isn’t really that much of a problem these days.

    I really wish that Android wasn’t so customized per device. I wish I could just install upstream Android on anything that can run it, instead of special binary images for each vendor’s make and model. Android is open source and all, but simply having the sources to work with is the easiest part. Making it actually work is significantly n more difficult.

    Imagine buying that aforementioned x86 machine, but you had to run a giant, customized binary blob specifically made for a laptop’s make and model. And you had to throw it away after a few years not because you need more resources, but because you cannot upgrade the OS anymore.

    Savaran,

    The reality is that we need laws that force them to either to continue to offer affordable support or publish all the specs and documentation when they drop support. Vendors shouldn’t be allowed to do otherwise.

    imgonnatrythis,

    That sounds pretty reasonable. I feel so owned by technology lately. It used to be exciting to have tech that you could decide when you wanted to retire it and focus spending on something new and different that served a different purpose. Now I feel like I’m stuck with all the same basic gadgets but I just need to keep throwing money at them to replace them every few years. It’s about as unexciting as having to spend money on an oil change. I’m pretty primed by this as recently my electric objects picture frame just pulled the plugs on their server recently with no notice and bam, I have a black screen in my living room instead of pictures of my dog, family, and favorite artwork.

    Aopen,

    I wish I could just install upstream Android on anything that can run it, instead of special binary images for each vendor’s make and model.

    Why doesnt it work like that though? Combined with mandatory open bootloader it would free people

    ^pls,eu🥺^

    mplewis,
    @mplewis@lemmy.globe.pub avatar

    Generally, the hardware in a small, power-efficient, SoC embedded device is going to be a lot more particular and a lot less general than your gaming computer’s motherboard. It’s harder to write general OS software for specific integrated systems rather than a big set of chips which provide an individual chip for the BIOS, specialized chips for the PCI ports, etc., all of which have become more standardized over time.

    verysoft,

    Yup. All these devices that release, like do we need 6 different iphones every year, 20 different samsung phones, etc.
    It's a fucking joke.

    gregorum,

    Then stop buying six different iPhones every year and 20 different Samsung phones every year.

    verysoft,

    Fuck my bad, can't help myself.

    gregorum,

    I get it; it’s very tempting 😛

    Aggravationstation,

    I’m no expert but I imagine that with a device like this, which will no doubt be popular amongst techie-types, there’ll be a custom ROM out for it soon enough

    BrandonMatrick,

    There’s a very grassroots Windows 10 ARM hack for the SD1, actually. It’s quirky, and lacks a LOAD of the driver blob that comes in a normal x64 install of Windows on AMD or Intel, but it can make outbound calls and run simple WinonARM apps.

    Aggravationstation,

    That’s cool if you’re into Windows, but Linux or even Lineage OS should be able to run on it.

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