agreed but i woudnt call it won just yet lets see what happens after the 3rd party apps stop working and people who may not have been paying attention get affected
Only if you define mods winning as 'things go back to what they were'.
The CEO is only 'winning' in the sense that things will never return to what they are. He will undermine the protest at every turn, and then he will release his changes as intended.
His contributing users however, are leaving in droves. His 'victory' will be pyrrhic at beast.
Users were working for free in mutual trust; now they are expected to produce and moderate for free, and then buy back their own product. Moderators are booted because they're locking subs as private, and then subs stay private anyway because nobody wants to moderate for free. Even those who would see moderating as a grab for power (the expected scabs) are less inclined to moderate while admins are proving they actually have little power at all (just unpaid labour).
We are his livestock. We thought we were meeting in a community hall to socialise, and then Huffman revealed we were congregated in his barn. The content we produced is to be sold off for his gain; it's not ours. The space isn't in any way ours, it merely shelters us while we produce his product: content.
Well, what's happening right now is that the people who produce the content are leaving. Reddit will still have a ton of users, but they'll mostly be the 90% lurkers and low-effort users that went there to consume that content contributing users aggregated for them.
Contributors are readily welcomed in almost any community; they don't need to stay. It is the consuming users that are addicted, that Huffman (correctly) predicts will accept it.
Huffman will still have most of Reddit's chickens, and that's why he thinks it's worth it. But the hens are leaving the barn, and Huffman will be left with the confused roosters who'll produce nothing for him other than noise.
Reddit still has hundreds of millions of active users per month. They may have lost some people, but this many eyeballs has a huge potential for profit.
No longer being viable as a business would be "lost", not "losing", if you ask me. In the long term we'll see how many volunteer mods they can shed without the platform becoming shit.
No longer being viable as a business would be “lost”, not “losing”, if you ask me. In the long term we’ll see how many volunteer mods they can shed without the platform becoming shit.
Those are just users numbers, which didn't dip all that much even during the blackout. The doomscrollers will keep coming until it sucks.
Right now it looks like it's a decisive victory for spez, contrary to the article's title.
Of course, the long-term consequences aren't clear yet, the moderator exodus might result in the whole platform becoming too low-quality to sustain the user interaction, leading to people moving away from it.
I think we're gonna see another huge blow to Reddit in a few days when all the third-party apps go permanently offline. I'll bet that a lot of people who haven't been paying attention so far are definitely going to start having something to say about it very soon.
This will be when the true test for Reddit begins; if the outcry is large enough that spez ends up relenting in some way then he will have already alienated a lot of users. If the outcry is minimal then I guess he won, but the prize hardly seems worth the drama that has been spun up.
It isn't going to be outcry, it is going to be drop in traffic. Spez is gambling that third party app users will switch to the official app. I won't, and I hope most others don't.
It looks like it is going to be a pyrrhic victory for Spez. You're right in that we don't know the knock-on effects of this decision, including if Reddit can get long time users to jump to the official app and if moderators will continue volunteering time.
I suspect a lot of subs are now going to create contingency plans for leaving Reddit, even if they don't implement them.
The time frame up to the IPO (I don't know how that timing works) seems to be what is critical. Right now Reddit has been unprofitable. The CEO took on massive new levels of expenses via staffing with no real plan (or it didn't work?) for how to pay for those expenses. This bad faith "negotiation" on API seems aimed at... I guess trading 3rd party utility and to some extent the community for the ability to sell data to AI industry?
I guess we will see but pick a time frame and none of it looks good for Reddit.
There has already been a relatively large population that has left the site (myself included) in a short amount of time. I doubt the rate will stay that high, but even though, integrating over time I see this is as the beginning of the end for Reddit and spez. The guy is a greedy jackass and I hope he loses it all.
A Pyrrhic victory. If he loses a large portion of his moderators, the whole platform will turn to shit. The whole thing was held together by passionate people in key places. Remove and replace with paid goons and the whole site suffers.
You can find plenty of other sources just like that one saying the same thing. I’m pretty sick of this myth, because it gives all these companies a bogeyman to hide behind.
Reddit is under no obligation to make its API free. But, it seems, the company has overreached in enforcing the new policy. If its target is the largest AI firms, then it should focus on curbing their parasitic proclivities and not going after beloved and useful software its users and moderators depend on.
This is my feeling. I understand that it could cost something. But the eye-watering rates for the small fish and the speed of the extortion is the issue.
Reddit knows the rates it proposed are extortionist. They don't have the nerve to honestly state that 3rd party access will be stopped from July 1 and accept responsibility, so instead they tried to find a way to blame 3rd parties.
Think of it as killing two birds with one stone: they monetize users by getting AI firms to pay for all the valuable content redditors have posted over the years, and they kill off app competitors who are giving redditors alternatives to the mobile app.
Because the point isn’t the costs of the API. Reddit wants all its users to go through the official access points, the Reddit app and the redesigned web. This will allow them to hover the maximum data to sell and ensure ads flow.
They should've just been effing upfront about it instead of trying to scapegoat API creators. Did they think users are too dense to understand what they were/are really up to?
Have corporations always been this dishonest and they're only now getting caught? Am I old enough to see when a corporation is lying, or are corporations blatantly lying more often now?
I didn't originally think that reddit shouldn't charge at all for API access, but after spez's recent interviews I wouldn't go back to the site without a promise that API access will be free forever. Is that reasonable? No, but fuck spez.
You can host an instance, and if the instance is doing something you don't like, you can certainly change it and prevent it from doing it. If the main Lemmy devs put stuff in most people don't like, the software will just get forked, and most instances will use the non-shitty version.
Lemmy is what the majority of users want it to be, since everyone can just start a competing site that's not suffering from the "outside-the-walled-garden" effect, with a different featureset. Users will move to the instance with the best featureset for themselves.
It doesn't really matter who created it. If you're using an instance not hosted by by creators, then they can't in any way benefit from it. That's the beauty of federation.
You’re safe from the big bad scary communists on Lemmy.
Kbin.social doesn't defederate lemmy.ml, so either way we're playing by their "don't say Uyghur genocide because we don't think it's real and we will ban you based on that belief" rules if we accidentally stumble into there.
This is where I would like to see individual-level instance blocking so that it doesn't show up in the home feed, same as how I can block everything that pops up in a language I don't speak.
Edit: Turns out we have that! Just found another thread showing how. On kbin, it's possible to view entire instances separately, and there's a "block" button similar to individual magazines/communities/users. To see lemmy.ml, the link would be
And Reddit has been backed by Tencent - CCP supporters by default - and Peter Thiel - a white supremacists and actual, literal fascist.
The politics of the people behind for-profit endeavours that the public has no actual control over regardless of stake seemingly never comes up. The politics of people behind things that challenge for-profit endeavours and gives control of things back to the public is often under the microscope.
We don't know ernest's politics. What if it came out tomorrow that he was an anarchist? Or that he was also a Leninist? Or was a white supremacist? Or that he liked Nickelback?
I mean he always has the power to strongarm everyone else.
But the consequence is giant boycotts and decay. Idk if winning is the right word. It's like going to war and declaring a win because both nations are destroyed.
I don’t think the ship is doomed yet but they’re definitely in ‘what is that ominous noise coming from the bilge’ territory. To carry on the analogy they’ll plug the leaks as best they can and try and make it to the safe harbour of the IPO (where she can sink at her mooring for all Spez cares) which they could still well do, but it’s also likely the captain and his officers being half-baked sons of lubberly farts will smash into several reefs on the way and sink their already damaged vessel.
Judging by the recent less big brand advertising, I think he was trying to shore up the IPO but failed. At the very least Reddit is still alive but it's going to be valued less.
Yes, but almost all ad-based business models in tech fell, too. There's less advertising money on the internet today than in 2022 or 2021, so investors are more skeptical in business models that primarily rely on internet ad revenue.
Throw in the fact that Reddit's advertising platform is actually difficult to use and not particularly effective, and you have the problem where Reddit simply can't charge the same rates that Facebook and Google can. That's what's going to kill the site, when advertisers decide it's just not worth advertising on that platform.
For me, no matter what Reddit is dead. Lemmy is enough for my time wasting and has enough content that I have not missed it one bit. I feel like the communities are smaller, less toxic, and I want to contribute more here. They could completely reverse their decision and I will not return and I hope there are enough like me to make a difference. It just amazes me a site that exists to link to other content on the web and store text comments about said content isn't profitable.
Thing is, if there was in instance or community doing ads, I now can simly block, mute or defederate them. With reddit I had to use an adblocker, scriptblocker and the reddit enhancement suite to be adfree. And I could not be sure it'd stay that way.
Same here. Reddit had me going only on inertia for the past few years. Whether they revert their API lalala doesn't matter - the communities are broken and I don't feel like getting up again.
And even if through some divine intervention they manage to repair the communities, I'm like... eh. I went to sit over here now and it's comfy.
Im pretty close to this as well. I think if they did a 180, and like, showed an ACTUAL attempt to right the ship, I would consider going back via Apollo.
But that said, I've been using Lemmy this week, and out of curiosity I've been comparing it with my reddit feed at the end of the day, and yeah. I really haven't missed out on anything important.
I mostly used Reddit as a way to waste time, or get info on the latest big things, like all the Trump stuff for example, and Lemmy is doing just fine getting me that kind of info.
I'm currently refusing to visit Reddit on principle. If Reddit relented, I would stop actively avoiding them, but I would not go back to it as a primary social outlet.
Lemmy is filling that void for me nicely. My only complaint is some bugs and lacking features, but that will get ironed out as Lemmy matures. Being wholly community driven is a hugely more solid foundation. And yeah, no ads. I see them rarely anyway because I mainly use a browser with an adblocker, but it's good to know there's no profit motivation for the Fediverse and never will be.
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