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Metaright, in Man Found Guilty of Child Porn, Because He Ran a Tor Exit Node (The Story of William Weber) - LowEndBox
@Metaright@kbin.social avatar

We oughtta arrest the people who pave roads because human traffickers use them to commit crimes.

lol3droflxp,
@lol3droflxp@kbin.social avatar

I wonder if the ISP got charged as well lol

jarfil,

The charges usually end up falling onto the last one who can’t stick them onto someone else.

Like, a carrier can blame the ISP, who can blame the VPN, who can check its logs and blame an address owner, who… better keep their own logs capable of identifying someone else if they’re letting random people do random stuff using that address. And a good lawyer, and will and money to fight it.

bobs_monkey,
Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

It sure is weird how a political system based around who has the most money always ends up hurting the people that don’t have money. Nobody could’ve predicted that.

aksdb,

Is there really a realistic way to do it differently? Situations ending up in court are complex and ambiguous. It’s never a simple “if this then that” kind of thing. So in the end it’s about making arguments and convincing each other. Different people have different skills and depending how you match up, arguments are lost or won. There will always ever be a limited amount of extremely skillful people. Even if you would make sure that money isn’t a barrier, time/availability will still be and so still most people will end up with inadequate council.

lol3droflxp,
@lol3droflxp@kbin.social avatar

If a justice system is so hard to use that only a small portion of the trained professionals can do it adequately it needs a massive overhaul. This of course is basically impossible and won’t happen. The US is a particularly bad case because of the sheer outdatedness of its constitution an court procedures.

aksdb,

I think most laws started out simple. Reality isn’t simple, however. And I would bet that any attempt to simplify it will be adjusted over time and will end up being just as complicated again.

I mean, the law could be simple in the sense that it basically says “don’t to stupid shit”. But then it just becomes more subjective which in the end will be even less fair.

All the complexity in the law comes from the attempts to make it as fair and objective as possible.

ArcticCircleSystem,

So if simplification isn’t a good way of making it so that poor people aren’t more likely to get screwed over in courts, what is? ~Strawberry

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Don’t have a society that gives all the power to people who have the most imaginary tokens. Don’t assign and apportion legal counsel according to money but instead according to need. Like, obviously I’m criticising capitalism, but your question assumes capitalism is here to stay.

Of course, under capitalism this will never happen, because the legislature is thoroughly captured by capital, and they are quite happy with lawyers being extremely expensive and siloed away in massive corporate legal teams.

Now of course none of what I am suggesting is going to be easy, quick, or absolute, which I mention just to head off the inevitable critcisms along those lines from people who find it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. As Ursula K le Guin said, “We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings.”

aksdb, (edited )

but your question assumes capitalism is here to stay.

It does not. In my last sentence I specifically said “Even if you would make sure that money isn’t a barrier”, which rules out capitalism. So in a system where everyone has equal access to everything, you still only have a limited amount of skilled people with the right profession. If there are currently 1000 first-degree-murder cases where life sentences are on the line, and you only have 10 extremely good lawyers … 990 people will still end up worse than the 10 that had the luck (!!) to get these 10 good lawyers assigned.

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I’m sorry, can you outline for me how you get to a world with 1000 first degree murder cases for every 10 competent lawyers? This isn’t mad max. If you want to raise an issue you need to explain why it’s a genuine problem anyone should care about.

As it is right now, lawyers are monopolised by the richest & most powerful. In a world where we don’t have enormous armies of corporate lawyers - who generally hate their jobs because they know they contribute nothing to society - we would have a lot more competent people available to do real jobs. Removing money from the equation helps both of these problems.

aksdb,

I didn’t say “competent”, I said “extremely good”. We have hundreds of thousands of competent lawyers. But the rich can typically afford to get the absolute best there are, not “just” competent. But over-the-top competent. Lawyers who don’t just handle this case as one of many, but who put private investigators and what-not on their pay roll to get everything they need to do the absolute best for their client. Who have, on top of their experience and resources also lots of connections.

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Your description of “extremely good” boils down to “extremely well-funded”.

If you actually think that the most expensive lawyers and firms get results because they are just so “extremely good”, you’ve probably bought into another capitalist lie of meritocracy. This just sounds like you fantasising again about a world that would make you right if it existed, but it doesn’t.

JakenVeina, (edited )

From the article…

Yes, as they had to give me the minimum sentence. By law they were right as the law only protected registered companies, unlike in Germany for example. The law was changed a few weeks later to include private persons and sole traders as protected lsps, not just companies, but they had to convict me. No choice in the end.

So, ISPs in Austria actually have legal protection from liability here, rightfully so, and also rightfully so, that protection was extended to private persons as well. A rare story of a legal system apparently working well, with regard to the marriage of privacy and technology.

aksdb,

The law was changed a few weeks later to include private persons and sole traders as protected lsps, not just companies, but they had to convict me. No choice in the end.

I am not sure I would consider this “working well”. It is the job of the court to determine if and how to apply law. Laws are never perfect and should be applied per intention, and not word-for-word. If the latter would even be possible, we wouldn’t need judges in the first place, because it would be a “simple” decision tree. But it’s not. And we have judges and the court processes for a reason.

If the law was amended a few weeks later, it shows, IMO, that the intention of the law was different than what was written down. Therefore the judge should have ruled that way by acknowledging that while the law does not exempt private individuals, its intention shows that it clearly should (simply because it doesn’t make much sense otherwise).

In other words: if the system really worked well, the judge would have sentenced (or rather not sentenced) within the intention of the law, and not within the strict writing.

(Worst case is that something like that gets escalated to the highest court who then either also accepts or overrules it.)

barsoap,

Yep given this is Austrian jurisprudence they should be able to apply Radbruch. Could it be overturned on appeal? Sure, but the judge also wouldn’t look stupid on appeal. German courts are using it in instances like conjuring a Romeo+Juliet exception out of thin air (in the “sex on your 14th birthday with your SO who is still 13” kind of sense), directly contradicting written law, saying “yep they overlooked that corner case”. Law didn’t even get updated as application of the formula is so uncontroversial.

In particular, this letter-of-law interpretation ignores equality before the law – that between natural and juridical persons. You need a proper reason to do such a thing. Quoth Radbruch:

Where there is not even an attempt at justice, where equality, which forms the core of justice, is deliberately betrayed in the laying down of positive law, then the statute is not even merely ‘flawed law’—rather, it lacks completely the very nature of law. For law, including positive law, cannot be otherwise defined than as a system and an institution whose very meaning is to serve justice.

HawlSera,

Do they not have Jury Nullification over there?

pchem,

Can’t have jury nullification if you don’t have juries.

Skyline969, in ‘Reddit can survive without search’: company reportedly threatens to block Google
@Skyline969@lemmy.ca avatar

Google search results are literally the only time I read Reddit content these days, and I’m sure I’m not alone in that regard. They’re going to lose so many views if they block their content on Google.

j4yt33,

True, but Google search is such garbage now that it would suffer quite a bit from not being able to present Reddit threads to answer questions. So not sure who’d be worse off here

thingsiplay,
@thingsiplay@kbin.social avatar

It's a Lose-Lose situation. Reddit has a fetish for that...

tal, (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Google can index other forums, like our own. Or stuff like Wikipedia. If Reddit doesn’t want to be indexed by external search engines, then they gotta build their own or be unsearchable. Their existing search system is abysmal.

Reddit becoming unsearchable would really damage their usability as a forum site.

You can say that even if Reddit’s value as a forum falls off, they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, they can still sell access to their existing forum archives for AI training, but those have been archived and are downloadable online, at least up until early in this year. I mean, there are gonna be companies running AIs trained on that in jurisdictions that Reddit cannot sue them in and don’t care about honoring US IP rights, like Russia.

falsem,

Reddit has been trying to build a usable search since 2008. It's not happening.

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

Great time to plug kagi.com

fwygon,

I’ve been using SearXNG locally to query many free engines at no cost to me.

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

SearXNG

that’s awesome. Is the quality good? I’m really loving Kagi, but I love OSS stuff so might consider this. Maintenance is also an issue. I’m tired of maintaining things. I’ve got my own unraid server, pihole, etc and I’m not in the mood for adding more stuff.

KSPAtlas,
@KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz avatar

What’s the deal with this whole kagi circlejerk aroumnd here

snowe,
@snowe@programming.dev avatar

you should try using it. Seriously. I thought the same as you, “why are all these people plugging kagi so hard”. Well, I literally started using it 3 months ago and I’ve only used Google search 3 times since then and not a single one of those times did Google succeed at the search I needed either. Google was so fucking bad that I essentially was forced to make a change, and I’d tried DDG like 2 years ago and hated it, I tried Bing and hated it.

I fucking love not being tracked, not worrying about being the product. I can search what I want without fear of being watched. It’s fantastic. And it’s fucking better than Google. God, google has gotten so bad I literally had trouble doing my job some days. No more of that bullshit.

TeamAssimilation,
@TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub avatar

Pro tip: you can use Google’s Verbatim mode to get exactly what you want.

Auzy,

What’s wrong with Google? I can honestly say I’ve never had issues. If you haven’t given it location privileges, that’s the only time I’ve seen it give crappy results

lichtmetzger,
@lichtmetzger@feddit.de avatar

It’s gotten really worse over the last year or so. They try to be overly “intelligent” by suggesting search phrases you didn’t even input, watering down the results.

I’m a web developer and when I google for “string”, I don’t want to get results for “yarn” to put in a fake extreme example. Rewording my search phrases is one of the worst features they ever introduced. I know what I’m looking for and I don’t need assistance with that.

Google even started ignoring operators sometimes. Back in the good old days you were able to put a word into quotations to tell the engine it must be included in the results. Now when I do this it only mostly works but when they run out of results they just go back to the default behaviour of including everything that might loosely fit the search phrase.

It feels like Google is afraid to show you no results, as if that was a crime or something.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Bing works so much better for me when I look up specific error messages etc.

Auzy,

For my development work, it works fine… haven’t had any issue (but i mainly do a lot of LUA / React). With bing though, a lot of links I got last I tested (a year or so ago) were literally dodgy websites

abhibeckert, (edited )

Bing (and therefore DuckDuckGo, which is what I generally use and is a wrapper around Bing) is definitely worse than Google especially for dev research, but it’s not as good as it used to be.

I do use Google for a lot of my dev research, and they seem to be losing the ongoing war against spamers flooding the internet with garbage content.

Websites like reddit (and beehaw) are somewhat of an oasis – actively moderated with absolute garbage content deleted straight away and questionable content at least has replies where people have pointing out if they think it’s wrong. If (when?) Reddit goes away, that’s a whole bunch of really good content that will suddenly disappear from google results, which will be sad.

PS: If you haven’t already, try buying a subscription to ChatGPT+ and use GPT4 as the first place you go for all your LUA/React questions. I find it gives far better answers than Google for most things. You can sort of dip your toes in the AI waters by trying Bing Chat… but it’s nowhere near as good for code as ChatGPT+.

Auzy,

I actually use Copilot mainly these days tbh for a lot of things

brihuang95,
@brihuang95@sopuli.xyz avatar

there was definitely a time where i got some results from google in a very ad-like manner, super fucking annoying: “you may like this…” and spamming different search terms, locations etc.

i haven’t seen it since, i figured they were A/B testing the design

admiralteal,

The one thing Reddit is great for, and for which substitutes do not yet exist, is its crowdsourced information. Especially product reviews. And finding those from within Reddit is impossible because their search simply does not work.

Appending "Reddit" to a Google search remains the best first-past method for making certain kinds of decisions where you need concrete, good-quality answers. Even for that, it's a bit of a minefield. Especially post-mod-purge, a lot of the once-great enthusiast subs have gotten pretty blase. Still better than all those consumer advertorial "BEST OF 2024" lists that you find everywhere full of extremely mediocre and likely corrupt reviews, but nothing compared to the straightforward buying guides you used to find.

On top of that, the "new" sight is a million times less usable than old.reddit.com and search engines shoot you in through that terrifically terrible gateway to experience confusingly-organized and incomplete content. Orders of magnitude worse on mobile, too.

If Reddit is de-indexed, I'll simply never be there at this point. Though I admit, I'm already there extremely rarely.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Still better than all those consumer advertorial “BEST OF 2024” lists that you find everywhere full of extremely mediocre and likely corrupt reviews, but nothing compared to the straightforward buying guides you used to find.

The SEO spam that I find that Google is absolutely unable to filter out is all the AI-generated sites. They generally have a page with a long list of questions and poorly-generated answers.

It don’t know if it’s one company doing it at mass scale or if there are hordes of copycats, but it swamps Google search results these days.

bedrooms,

New here? Japanese website have been mostly like that for decades now.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I haven’t used Japanese websites enough to be able to provide a comparison.

It definitely wasn’t the situation for English-based websites five years back. It was an issue at the beginning of this year. I don’t know where it really started.

theolodger,

I started noticing it about a year and a half ago…

abhibeckert,

Pretty sure most of those are not AI generated (yet…).

They pay humans $2 an hour to write a paragraph ten different ways, then mix those with other paragraphs written by other people to create huge “content farms” of sites full of ads.

And they are deliberately shit - because they depend on visitors giving up and deciding to click an ad instead of whatever they came to the site for.

TunaLobster,

There was slant for a bit. Turned out to not be as reactive to market distributions.

Stack exchange has some good stuff going for it.

The browser add-ons for redirecting to old.reddit are doing good work. Best add-ons 2023

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Yeah, I’ve used one, but there is also sloowly accumulating bitrot there. It’s not getting any work done on it, and Reddit was pretty clear that they weren’t going to do more work on it.

Submissions of image collections have some bad link; they didn’t exist back when old.reddit.com was the norm.

www.reddit.com and old.reddit.com handle underscores in URLs pasted straight into Markdown and auto-linkified differently (one requires that they be backslash-escaped, the other that they not be backslash-escaped).

There’s some kind of inline image stuff in the new UI, IIRC, that doesn’t show up on old.reddit.com. I was surprised when I bipped over to the new UI and saw it.

You can hack a dark mode in in various ways, but it’s normally a light theme.

Not really specific to just the old Web UI, but third-party client issue is a factor for phone users. Reddit’s web UI on mobile isn’t fantastic. old.reddit.com is okay for desktop use, but it’s not really a great solution for phones.

30p87,

Though I admit, I’m already there extremely rarely.

I always experience an onosecond after accidentally clicking on a Reddit thread in the search results. Followed by a short wave of disgust by the often mean/negative comments and pressing Mouse 4/Back.

Wait, I just realized I can block reddit.com completely in kagi. 10$/month nicely spent; begone thot!

fwygon,

I’ve been using SearXNG locally to query many free engines at no cost to me.

30p87,

Looks nice, but for me features like fastgpt are worth the 10$/month

BolexForSoup,
@BolexForSoup@kbin.social avatar

Great overview of the issue

cyborganism,

Yeah. I only ever read reddit posts when they’re about a technical issue I’m facing.

Besides, Reddit’s search is crap. When I was on Reddit, I used to use Google to search posts.

Penguincoder,

Seriously. Searching google with site:reddit.com is a thing for a reason. Their on site search is atrocious.

conciselyverbose,

I'm guessing with the API dead it's the only way to find content on Reddit anymore, too. I can't imagine the Reddit searches that worked weren't using the API, and Reddit's search is a dumpster fire.

CmdrShepard,

Same but the nihilist in me wants them to do it anyways. Better to rip the bandaid off in one go than to deal with jumping through hoops for several years until they ultimately remove it from Google search anyway. With a clean break, we can start rebuilding that trove of knowledge somewhere else and hopefully not all in one place again.

Mesa, (edited )
@Mesa@programming.dev avatar

You aren’t alone. I stopped posting to Reddit in the protest and haven’t posted/voted since, but old threads are just too useful to completely block it out.

The thing is, though, my Reddit usage from Google Search hasn’t replaced what used to be my time browsing Reddit. I now exclusively use it for informational old threads via Google Search.

If before API terms changes I spent 7 hours a week on Reddit, and let’s say 5% of that was needing Google search results from Reddit specifically and the other 95% of usage was scrolling through my Reddit front page; I am not now spending 7 hours on Reddit via Google search. I’m now only using that 5% of 7 hours/week = 21 minutes/week on Reddit, and maybe even less considering my newfound aversion to the website.

And I suspect that most of the people who stopped using Reddit after the changes—whether by lapse or by principle—are not gonna come crawling back to it if Reddit chooses to sever that tenuous metaphoric link.

Edit: clarified a subject

trashhalo, in Twitter To Rebrand As X
TerryTPlatypus,

No 😭😭😭

sic_1,

Brilliant!

scorpionix,
@scorpionix@feddit.de avatar
inconel, in Meta Just Proved People Hate Chronological Feeds

Using engagement for metric will ofc render algorithmic feed “better”, i.e. addictive. Their value is not about mental wellbeing.

TheSaneWriter,
@TheSaneWriter@lemmy.thesanewriter.com avatar

That’s true but did anyone think Meta cared about mental well-being? They’re a company, their only goal is to make money.

scrubbles,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

yep note that it didn’t measure addiction or how much screen time in a day or anything, the only metric is “more is better”, which ask anyone and they’ll say it’s the opposite

masterspace,

The fact that they switched to a different algorithmic feed instead of reducing use time indicates that it’s a problem that needs legislation to address, since it will not be in any individual company’s interest to stop.

Grimpen,

I found that back in the old days of Facebook (pre-enshitification, or at least full steam enshitification) I could log in, catch up on what all my distant relatives and friends were up to, leave some comments, maybe post something myself, and log out in around 10-15 minutes max. Then they started “improving” things, and suddenly there was “engaging” content, and it took at least ½ an hour.

I think it makes sense that from Facebook’s perspective, a chronological feed is worse.

Having said that, some people post more than others, so I do appreciate using the Hot and Active sorts for Lemmy in addition to Top - Day. It’s a feature I miss from Mastodon. There is a headline bot that I like following, to catch the recent headlines, and the weather. Problem is that something like ¼ of my feed can just be the bot, and yesterday’s headlines aren’t news anymore, I’m more interested in the ongoing discussion. So I do appreciate the non-chronological sorts, when they make things better for me, and not a corporation’s bottom line.

jonne,

Yep, I basically stopped using Facebook when it changed away from that. It also changed in other ways, in that people would be posting about politics and memes instead of just life updates and holiday pictures.

sculd, in Meta Just Proved People Hate Chronological Feeds

They don’t “hate” chronological feeds. The study say they are more likely to disengage, and that’s probably because people got what they need from the chronological feed and log off to do other things…

Proving that chronological feed is more healthy.

Didros,

This sounds like a successful efficiency study presented by a horror director.

conciselyverbose,

Yeah, if you were ever unsure where wired stands as a reputable organization, here's all the evidence you need.

Steeve,

Why would you “get what you need” quicker with a chronological feed? The more engaged with content is what most people are going to the site for, it’s like browsing Lemmy on top vs new, and frankly new is mostly crap.

alnilam,

What I want is to see the new posts of my network. With chronological, I know when I see a previously seen post, that I’m done. With algorithmic, I’m scrolling past tons of posts I’ve seen before, hoping to find a new one every once in a while. And I never know when I’m done, so I frustratingly close the app after a longer time.

HeartyBeast,
@HeartyBeast@kbin.social avatar

I’m much more “engaged” when you hide my needle in a haystack. Simply handing me the needle allows me to grab it and go.

Needle in this case is finding out what my friends are up to

WalrusDragonOnABike,

When I look at my subscriptions, I sort by new because it lets me see what I want quicker. Top is filled with old things so I almost never use it. Hot is what I use if not restricting to just subs. Once I'm done looking at what's new, I'm done. No wasting time on stuff I've seen before.

Notnotmike, in RIP Twitter’s iconic bird logo
@Notnotmike@beehaw.org avatar

This is so wacky it’s astounding.

You don’t buy a company for their servers or employees, those can be found elsewhere for the same price. You buy a company for its users and its brand. To throw away one of the most icon brands in the world, which is present in the footer of every major website in the world, is baffling.

What is the end game here?

Chozo,

What is the end game here?

Bold of you to assume Elon has one.

Zorque,

I'm sure he has an end-game.

It's everything up to that point where he's completely at a loss.

TwilightVulpine,

I think his endgame is just boosting his ego. He tried to get this X thing to stick since the PayPal days.

We are just watching the midlife crisis of a guy with way too much money showing that billionaires are not immune to terminally online brain rot.

HobbitFoot,

Why does he need one? Maybe he just got really lucky.

driving_crooner,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

You don’t buy a company for their […] employees

You can do that, and companies like Google have been doing it for years. The difference is that those companies are small teams of engineers, working on niche applications, that the big company wants to incorporate into them.

CodingSquirrel,

You don’t buy a company for their servers or employees

Clearly he didn't buy it for that either, since he chucked those out the window shortly after purchase. Pretty sure he spent billions of dollars to shitpost and create a safe space for nazis.

Can_Utility,
@Can_Utility@beehaw.org avatar

At this point it’s foolish not to consider this as possibly the greatest tax writeoff in history. Elmo is setting himself up to never pay another dime in taxes the rest of his life. Not that he probably pays that much as it stands, but still.

roguetrick,

You can't defer losses like this forever. You can throw your money in a fire, but in the end that's not going to help you very much.

Can_Utility,
@Can_Utility@beehaw.org avatar

IANA tax attorney, and I’ve always had more time than losses, so I’ll defer to your wisdom 😅 I also didn’t claim he was smart

hh93,

But you won’t save more tax with this that you lost money with it?

How would this ever make sense especially given that inflation is a thing?

Chariotwheel,

Yeah, man. People had various opinions on the quality of Twitter, but it couldn't be denied that it was a worldwide known brand.

Pagliacci,

He bought the company to bootstrap his idea of his “X” app which he envisions becoming something like WeChat for the world outside of China.

I think it’s a terrible idea that’s a solution in search of s problem. WeChat works in China because the government literally enforces it’s usage. The rest of the world isn’t interested in a one-stop-shop for anything and everything.

It’s the problem of trying to be everything for everyone. You end up with mediocre or bad solutions for many problems instead of great solutions for a couple of problems. It works when there’s no competition, see WeChat, but when there is competition that competition is going to beat you at their game because you’re too busy playing a dozen others.

StarServal,
@StarServal@kbin.social avatar

It’s funny if that’s his endgame, since Meta is already closer to that achievement than he is, and their Twitter alternative exploded in popularity immediately thanks to Musk’s own incompetence.

jmp242,

The rest of the world isn’t interested in a one-stop-shop for anything and everything.

I’m not entirely sure this is true. Look at the constant posts and commenting on how people hate to deal with the complication of additional apps / sites. It’s a major negative of the fediverse, it’s one reason I think Signal shot themselves in the foot getting rid of SMS. It’s why people keep using Amazon or Netflix even as they get worse and worse and more expensive. Heck, I’m not even immune - I wish we had one fast and cheap way to transfer money rather than Zelle, Paypal, various bank schemes, venmo and on and on. I wish we had a universal shopping cart thing like Paypal checkout more widely adopted vs making ever more accounts and typing in all my details for a one time order from a different website (and this is one reason why people gravitate to Amazon vs individual sites).

I’m not saying I’d like an all in one app, but I can see it potentially being interesting to people if it simplified their lives. I don’t think Musk and X are likely to be able to do it, but I don’t actually think there’s no interest.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

There is a kindle ground that people want between an app for literally every small part of something and absolutely everything in a single app.

They don't want 100 different newspaper apps to read 100 different newspapers when they all work differently.

Twitter and Facebook serve different purposes and made sense to be separate.

JeremyT,

My theory is that he’s wanting it as a tax write off or something since he was trying to back out shortly after putting in an offer.

StarServal,
@StarServal@kbin.social avatar

What is the end game here?

Musk: “Hey Everybody, look at me!”

Bishma,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

He realized pretty fast that he offered WAY too much money for Twitter. Like, we’re0 seeing maybe 5x what it was really worth at the time. But, because he did everything out in public like the narcissist he is, he knew there was no way he was getting out of the sale in court.

So he got as much of the cash from banks and other investors as possible. An amount of debt that could ruin someone with even his net worth. Now he’s driving their investment into to the ground so the banks will end up writing off most of the debt rather than asking for repayment. So far, it seems to be working.

Sordid,
@Sordid@beehaw.org avatar

Now he’s driving their investment into to the ground so the banks will end up writing off most of the debt rather than asking for repayment. So far, it seems to be working.

Maybe I’m financially illiterate, but I don’t understand how that works. Like… if I take out a loan to buy a house and then deliberately burn down the house, that doesn’t get me off the hook. If anything, I’ll probably end up going to prison to boot. Why exactly would the banks just write off Musk’s debt instead of going after him and his other assets in court?

mint,
@mint@beehaw.org avatar

Because laws are for poor people silly goose

Bishma,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Most of the money in the world economy is known as “Book Money.” It exists only because an investor somewhere decided it did and invested based on that number. When a bank or investor stops thinking it’s worth that much one of the things they can do is a Write Down. The money (which never really existed anyway) ceases to exist, the banks books (and possibly their rating as a lender) are affected, the investee should become considered a bad investment, and the money is deleted from the world. But there are no other real consequences unless the investor or investee destroys enough of their wealth that they become insolvent.

You bought your house with earned money. Real money. It can’t just be erased in the same way because you played by the rules the whole time.

Kaladin_Stormblessed,

Wait, huh? So anyone can just print money by investing it? Or is it hypothetical money tied to the value of something?

IllNess,

I hope the cash he got from banks is backed by his stocks in Tesla. But what do I know, look what happened to Silicon Valley Bank. Banks aren’t smarter in investing than the rest of us apparently.

FlowVoid,

Lenders are not as stupid as you think. 75% of Twitter’s purchase price was paid by Musk himself or loans secured against his Tesla stock. None of that will be “written off”.

Bishma,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

The number I’ve seen it closer to 55% but, regardless, all the Tesla money was acquired exactly the same way and will be written off the same way too.

Tesla has positioned itself as a tech company instead of a car company, and if its investors decide one day that it’s a car company it’s value will drop 60 - 80% overnight. Of course the investors will never do that because 1) it will leave a lot of them in ruin and 2) the gigafactories for batteries are probably actually valued pretty accurately. But remember ever time Telsa talks about robots or super computers they’re trying to make everyone forget that their valuation multiples should be closer to Ford than Apple.

FlowVoid,

Tesla owns a huge and successful charging network, and most EV makers in the US are switching to Tesla charging ports in order to take advantage of it. In the process, this will make the smaller charging networks (like EA) even more irrelevant.

If Ford happened to own all the gas stations in America, you’d have an idea of what Tesla is about to become. There’s a good reason why Tesla stock is priced so high.

Bishma,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Ford used to own gas stations. They didn’t totally leave the business until the 70’s gas shortages, though they had been in decline since the 30s. History does tend to repeat itself, and there’s nothing proprietary about electricity (there are adapters to go from one plug type to another). The US switch to using NACS has just started in the last couple months and will not be seen in most of the rest of the world, since Europe and much of Asia codified standards like CCS into law while Tesla was still trying to keep their tech private.

Smart money says Tesla will spin off the charging network (and solar stuff) into independent entities due to stagnate markets during the next recession and then devest entirely after their next major stock slump.

FlowVoid,

Ford never dominated the US market for gas stations like Tesla does for chargers. Even if Tesla never builds another charger outside the US, it can thrive by dominating the US market alone. And the experience of EA and others demonstrates that it’s not so easy to set up a competing network.

Of course Tesla might spin off its charging business, but that won’t worry investors. It just means that your Tesla share would turn into a share of TeslaCars plus a share if TeslaChargers.

Leafeytea,

Not only wacky but hideous? I mean if you are going to re-logo (forget that it be for idiotic reasons…) the least you could do is make the design look decent… this?? 😂

https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/10e6ed70-5c77-4631-906f-6c1d958ea138.webp

chtk,
@chtk@feddit.nl avatar

Wth? This looked dated in the '90s.

speaker_hat,

Elon himself painted it using his old Windows 95 Paint software, what a masterpiece

snowbell,
@snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

What is it with the squished fonts everyone is switching to lately?

peter,
@peter@feddit.uk avatar

It’s a new design trend

snowbell,
@snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

RIP

Xero,
@Xero@infosec.pub avatar

He bought it to destroy it for his Saudi backers. Billionaires like Musk and the Saudis make more money with Republicans in charge. Twitter and Reddit were too good at educating voters that would keep Republicans out of power, and hold murderous Saudi princes accountable, so they had to be destroyed.

Banzai51,
@Banzai51@midwest.social avatar

Would have been easier to shutter it as soon as he had control of it. This is legit his best effort.

ConsciousCode,

I don’t think that was his goal, but it was probably why the Saudis were so eager to loan him the funds to buy it. This reminds me of a time I was talking to a climate-denying friend who cited something about NY using “methane causes global warming” to push anti-small farm bills on the basis that they had cattle (or something, I can’t remember exactly). The point being, sometimes it’s not a grand orchestrated conspiracy (eg “global warming is fake”) but rather malicious, opportunistic actors taking whatever advantages they can get. Billionaires don’t cause recessions on purpose, but their wealth certainly does increase during them anyway because of how the system has evolved to optimize for wealth consolidation through the independent actions of the capitalist class, and they’re not hurting enough to want to change it for the better.

Shikadi,

Always makes me wonder if he’s destroying it for Russia or republicans or something

Very_Bad_Janet,

which is present in the footer of every major website in the world

OMG, I just realize that the little blue bird will be replaced with an X everywhere. A generic looking, forgettable X.

I also realize that instead of saying "follow me on Twitter" or "I'm on Twitter," people will say "follow me on X" and "I'm on X," which sounds like you're talking about Ecstacy or Molly. Very 1990s club kid. (He's Gen X so I'm sure he's well aware of how this sounds.)

I am seldom a conspiracy theorist but I am really starting to think that he is deliberately trying to destroy Twitter, I mean X.

weew,

maybe he’s hoping that people accidentally mistaking the button for “close window” will drive up traffic

Pagliacci,

I don’t think so, his “X” idea has been around for a long time, he really thinks it’s his next big idea. I’m sure people have raised all of these concerns with him, but I doubt he’s listening. Tesla, SpaceX, etc. are ideas that he bought, this one is his baby. I don’t think he’s open to ideas or criticisms on it.

ConsciousCode,

Speaking of SpaceX, makes me wonder why he doesn’t just brand everything <name>X, eg TwitterX. Keep the X theme but don’t water down the brand. Then, if he hits the jackpot and becomes a multi-industry monopoly he can rebrand everything to just X.

dismalnow,
@dismalnow@kbin.social avatar

This isn't a logo. It's a cry for help from a severely distressed mind.

W̸͖͆H̵̡̹̖͂̂̑̅Ǎ̷̲̩͔̿͜͠T̷̩̫͗'̶̺̩͖͚́̚Ś̴̭̺̼̳ ̶̼̱̗̓̄̾H̸̡̗̫̝͘A̵͍̥̔̾P̸͇͎̾́P̵̙̦̀́ͅE̸̢̧̹͐͝͠N̸̫̲͙̘͝I̵̳͍͇̼̾̋̀̕N̶͚͖̪̒̈́̈G̵͕̱̓̃

̷̛̰̣̠͛͊ ̸̳̼̹͂ ̸̳͕̳̔̈̉͝ ̸̛̲̋̄͘ ̴͎͐ ̸̝̃̽̚W̵͓̙̏̄̀̉Ḩ̶͚͍͗͠A̷̢̹̥͙͑͐͆T̷̫́̉̄̚'̸̧͍͌͆͜Ş̷̗͚̻̓̉͒͠ ̶̣̯̬͑̈́H̷̘͛̇̚A̷̭͗̓͘P̶̭̠̔͒͝P̵̱̯̲̓͌͘E̵̡̪̣͇̕͝N̵͓͊̇̿̋Ì̷̭̯̠͗̈́͠N̴̬̹̲͔͑̈͝G̵͎̖̥͇̀

Lmaydev,

Just to say you often do buy a tech company for it’s employees. But he fired most of them anyway so this move seem pretty on brand.

ag_roberston_author, in Elon Musk says Twitter logo to change, birds to be gradually abandoned
@ag_roberston_author@beehaw.org avatar

Pay 44 billion for a brand, then change it. Pure genius.

potpie,

Pay billions for a userbase, then drive away the ones that aren’t Nazis or bots.

Railison,

An X looks like a swastika if you only add half the seriffs

MeetInPotatoes,

Been saying it for a while, but his plan was to run it into the ground all along. Who is he buddy-buddy with in public? The Saudi’s and the Russians, who both have an interest in seeing Twitter burn to the ground. He started by laying off people, not paying their bills, and making stupid brand decisions. This has been the plan all along and there’s really no other logical explanation. 44 billion is nothing to the Saudis and Russian oligarchs if it takes away a key tool for organized dissent and the spread of western ideals.

somas,
@somas@kbin.social avatar

@MeetInPotatoes You are giving him too much credit.

@hedge @ag_roberston_author @potpie

MeetInPotatoes,

I guess, but I honestly thought he would be better at pretending to make good decisions.

boredtortoise,

Brand and user base. Destroy both

thingsiplay,
@thingsiplay@kbin.social avatar

@boredtortoise And last, destroy the technology. Mission completed.

AzzyDev,

Sell the servers on eBay to the homelabbers lmao

TwilightVulpine,

Don't give him too much credit. Elon is transparently too terminally online to be destroying Twitter because that's his goal. He didn't even actually mean to buy it until he was forced to.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, he was just trying to manipulate stocks and a judge made him follow through.

boredtortoise,

Yeah Musk is malicious but I’ll give this one to incompetence

matthewmercury,

What are they gonna call tweets now?

ChrisLicht,

Crusades?

Cross words?

Xits?

astronot,
@astronot@beehaw.org avatar

Exes. Elon has too many of those, too.

Landrin201,
@Landrin201@lemmy.ml avatar

Pay 54 billion dollars to utterly destroy a platform which gave normal people the ability to effectively spread information about the wrongdoing of the upper class, and which often promoted that very information.

That’s why he did this, he knows it’s killing g Twitter and wants it dead.

queermunist, in USB-C confirmed for the iPhone 15 in new leaked images - Macworld
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Government regulation works.

maeries,

Always have been

moitoi,

And ever will.

HairHeel,
@HairHeel@programming.dev avatar

The real test on this one is going to be in how well those regulations support the eventual transition from USB-C to something else.

There’s inevitably going to be a use case for new connectors that have some yet-unidentified advantage over USB-C for certain devices, and there’s going to be hurdles convincing regulators to grant exceptions for those devices or to adopt one of them as the new standard for everybody.

There’s plenty of examples of government regulations gone wrong trying to transition from an old technology to a new one. (i.e. the REAL ID format in the US, or the switch from analog to digital broadcast TV).

NattyNatty2x4,

The regulation is worded to require whatever the USB-IF currently requires, which is what companies that adopted USB already follow. The concern here died before the ink on the law even dried.

xtremeownage,

Consumer-based regulation works better.

ie- when people stop spending billions on iphones that don’t use standardized hardware… Then, perhaps Apple will stop being anti-competitive assholes.

Right now, they can get away with being anti-competitive assholes, because everyone keeps buying their products.

Money speaks.

Just watch- apple will indeed release a phone that has a USB-Type C port. Then, disable data transfer to any non-apple certified USB cord, due to “security concerns” or “fire hazards”

i_am_not_a_robot,

It’s not so simple. If my parents stopped buying iPhones, they would need to replace their watches, their TV streaming device, their car chargers, and all their apps. You can’t expect normal people to collectively switch from an ecosystem designed around lock-in.

jcarax,

How is it not so simple, when all that still falls under them being anti-competitive assholes?

Consumer based regulation only works when consumers care enough to have a sense of dignity about it.

tias,

So… in other words, it doesn’t work.

jcarax,

That’s my thought. I’d go so far as to say it should work, but humanity is broken.

xtremeownage,

replace their watches,

Never really got the craze around smart watches.

their TV streaming device

if your streaming device requires you to have a certain type of phone to use, you should replace it regardless. Roku/AndroidTV/etc… They don’t care WHAT type of device you try to stream media from. Have an IPhone? Sure. Android? No problem. Blackberry? That might not work.

their car chargers

Wait until you realize any 5$ charging cord from the corner store can charge your phone, and connect it to your car!

all their apps

Most of those work just fine on android. Just swapped my Dad’s phone from apple to android a few months ago, and was able to find all of his apps without any issues.

NattyNatty2x4,

It literally does not, as evidenced by the state of chargers in the 2000s and early 2010s, before the EU threatened to regulate if phone companies didn’t get their shit together. Back then you’d have a different charger design for virtually every phone, including new models of the same phone. USB only became ubiquitous because the EU told companies to stop fucking around and legislate themselves, or the EU would make formal legislation. Most companies got the memo, but Apple decided to be cunts for long enough that the EU decided they needed to finally step in.

Consumer-based regulation being the end-all is based off the classical- and neoliberal ideas that humans are rational actors and companies have a greater incentive to compete than to collude. Both of which are lies.

xtremeownage,

humans are rational actors and companies have a greater incentive to compete than to collude

Touché. Point taken, you aren’t wrong there.

AbsolutelyNotABot, (edited )

the classical- and neoliberal ideas that humans are rational actors

Be very careful with this, because this is also the very foundation of democracy. If we start saying humans can’t decide for themselves over insignificant phone charger, how could we trust them selecting the people who has much more power than that?

manucode,

how could we trust them selecting the people who has much more power than that

Who else is there to trust but us humans?

humans can’t decide for themselves over insignificant phone charger

Individual humans don’t have the ability to choose their phone based on their preferred charger. Each purchase is made between one buyer with fairly limited funds and few large corporations with extensive funds.

AbsolutelyNotABot,

between one buyer with fairly limited funds and few large corporations with extensive funds

Which is the same as saying that every vote is transferred between one voter, with very limited knowledge and political awareness and a few politicians with extensive power because politics is what they do their entire life.

Democracy is, in many practical sense, a market for votes. One which is way less regulated than the one for goods and services

Bartsbigbugbag,

That’s actually the opposite of the foundation of democracy. Democracy spreads the power out through as many people as possible in order to lessen the potential for abuse by any individual actor. Electing representatives who have near unlimited power and no recourse for constituents isn’t democracy, its oligarchy.

AbsolutelyNotABot,

Democracy spreads the power out through as many people as possible in order to lessen the potential for abuse by any individual actor

Well, that’s not our democracies work. We don’t let people vote every law by referendum, that would be spreading power as much as possible.

In ancient Athens it was common, as was common for judiciary decision to be made by 3-4 hundreds people drawn at random. But that’s something almost universally considered stupid now, we have a judge, who we consider an “expert” in law.

By your definition, we don’t live in a democracy, on the contrary, democracy is extinct on this planet

Bartsbigbugbag,

There are indeed democracies on the planet that work in a way that both allows the use of representation and maintains the power in the hands of the constituency by allowing easy recall processes and mandates that officials follow the will of their constituency. We just don’t have them in liberal democracy, which was created, in part, to specifically guard against the possibility of majority rule, as mentioned in multiple of the Federalist papers, including but not limited to Federalist 9 and 10.

NattyNatty2x4,

There’s nothing to be careful about, it’s absolutely true. Democracy isn’t flawless and is capable of leading to demagogues and reality-denying lunatics coming to power precisely because humans aren’t rational actors. But just because democracy isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s worse than the other systems we’ve come up with.

Vlhacs,

But you just negated your initial argument by using Apple as an example…?

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Consumer-based regulation works better.

Consumer-based regulation doesn’t exist lol

nromdotcom, in Kev Quirk, one of the admins of Fosstodon (a Mastodon instance), destroys Meta in an email exchange.

A 45 minute "round table" with multiple rando masto instance admins? That doesn't sound like enough time for the table to get very round.

It sounds more like 5 minutes introduction, 30 minute presentation by Meta, 10 minutes Q&A. But oops our presentation ran just a bit long, and I really do have a hard stop at noon so we really only have about 5 minutes for questions thanks for all of the valuable feedback we'll be sure to circle back offline.

GeekFTW,
@GeekFTW@kbin.social avatar

Ah, I see you've taken part in Bullshit Corporate Meetings™ before!

lumarius,

a true person of culture!

SavvyWolf,

"We here at Meta take people's privacy very seriously and are committed to protecting our users. Unfortunately at this time we can't discuss what measures we've put in place."

bobs_monkey,

Unfortunately at this time we can't discuss what measures we've put in place....

Because we have none, as it's counteractive to our revenue models.

thejevans, in Firefox 118 Released With Killer New Feature - OMG! Ubuntu

The feature is translation. Just say that, OMGUbuntu.

thingsiplay,
@thingsiplay@kbin.social avatar

It is. But the big plus is it's offline translation, without sending data through network (for privacy concerns and for quick operation). Edit: Oh, just got what you meant. The article title is not descriptive enough. I agree.

NecroMemories,

Purposefully not descriptive enough. People do it on the R site too even though there’s no real benefit or way to see that you’re getting people to click through.

CanadaPlus,

That is nice!

KairuByte,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Thank you, was hoping there was a “very tl;dr” in the comments.

otter,
@otter@lemmy.ca avatar
ono, (edited )

I’ve been using this feature as an (official) add-on for a few months:
addons.mozilla.org/…/firefox-translations/

I like it a lot. The fact that it translates entirely on my machine, without revealing to some corporation what I’m translating, is indeed a killer feature.

(Now if only we could link headlines that state the key information instead of baiting people into clicks.)

jcarax,

Yeah, my big corporation won’t let us use 3rd party big corporations for translations, only our own tool. I assume we know the kind of shit we use the data for, and assume others are just as bad.

totallynotfbi,

I swear, we need a version of r/savedyouaclick on Lemmy at some point.

Also, I thought this feature was already released? I’ve been using it for the better half of this year.

Lionir, in Firefox Money: Investigating the bizarre finances of Mozilla

This “report” is exactly what I would expect from Lunduke. It is really sad that this reactionary content comes from someone who I once thought was cool.

The only part I can agree on : the execs at Mozilla are getting paid too much in the current situation.

Now to get to the real meat.

The combined spendings to political organizations make up around 1m$. This is less than the donations made to Mozilla foundation. Considering the very political nature of the foundation, these spendings were likely authorized there.

Now, why would a technology company spend on political organisations? Well, simply put : technology is political. People trying to peddle that technology is not political are trying to sell you the status quo.

Technology companies spend insane amounts of money on lobbying.

Now, why would Mozilla spend money on left-leaning organisations? Well, simply put : left-leaning politics (though embedded in neoliberal Californian ideals of the internet) are embedded at the core of Mozilla from the start with Mozilla manifesto.

I’m not gonna get into why Lunduke thinks that these organisations are bad but consider it a red flag.

Now, what I would ask to anyone reading this : why do you think Lunduke is ignoring this? Why would Lunduke try to paint this picture?

yetAnotherUser,

I’d say the CEO is the only one who’s overpaid. The other executives make between $200k to $370k, which is a lot of money but barely noteworthy imo.

Lionir,

Yeah, for sure, the CEO is the clear outlier. I just count them as an exec though that might be misusing how that term is used colloquially.

TehPers,

If they’re living in SF, then it’s even less money. It’s a lot, don’t get me wrong, but it takes a lot of money to afford to live in (or around) that city.

detectivemittens,

I don’t know enough about corporate finance or how Mozilla is structured, but why is the CEO the only one marked with “paid only by a related for profit”? Is this coming from money from Mozilla Corporation? Why is she the only one being paid from there and not the others? Does that maybe have something to do with the disparity in pay?

zephyrvs,

The problem isn’t that they’re spending money on political causes and I wouldn’t even expect them to do some false balance bs where they’d spend money on left and right wing politics, but spending money on political causes with almost zero transparency (like what do orgs do with the money, how effective are they, are they actually aligned with certain values, who is involved in these orgs, etc) seems fishy as fuck.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

I didn’t read the article… Are the organizations secret? I don’t think it’s fishy if not. Why would they need to spend time justifying things to the public like that?

stillwater,

(like what do orgs do with the money, how effective are they, are they actually aligned with certain values, who is involved in these orgs, etc)

These are all issues of the organizations own reporting, not anything Mozilla did. Mozilla is not responsible for disclosing the operational details of places it donates to or works with.

The laws and regulations surrounding NPOs, charities, and foundations and what they report are a whole other rabbit hole.

davehtaylor,

This “report” is exactly what I would expect from Lunduke. It is really sad that this reactionary content comes from someone who I once thought was cool.

It’s sad. When I discovered the Linux Action Show back in 2006 or 2007, he seemed like a fun and interesting person. But it’s amazing how quickly that perception proved false. And his Twitter feed in 2020 was a dumpster fire.

Well, simply put : left-leaning politics (though embedded in neoliberal Californian ideals of the internet) are embedded at the core of Mozilla from the start with Mozilla manifesto.

Which is so fascinating given the involvement of people like Brendan Eich, and also descending from noted Libertarian and capitalist Marc Andreesen

Lionir,

I mean, the neolib Californian ideals of the internet was anarchist so always anti-gov but not anti-corporate. That’s how you end up with compromise points in the Mozilla manifesto like this:

Commercial involvement in the development of the internet brings many benefits; a balance between commercial profit and public benefit is critical.

Principle 9

Worth mentioning that Eich came from the Netscape days and was highly influential on a technical level.

davehtaylor,

Worth mentioning that Eich came from the Netscape days and was highly influential on a technical level.

Oh yeah for sure. Foundational on the browser, and with developing JavaScript. But a shit person. I guess the Prop8 business was finally a bridge too far, PR-wise

Lionir,

Yeah, of course. I’m not defending Eich, just some insight on how he got there :P

zaphod, (edited )
@zaphod@lemmy.ca avatar

Disregard everything below. I mistook the comment about neo-liberalism for a quote from this guy.

I’m leaving the text up for context, but this criticism is misdirected.

==

It says everything you need to know that he (I suspect deliberately) confuses neo-liberal for left-wing ideology.

Neo-liberal = capitalist with a smoking jacket and a fancy degree on the wall.

SV is absolute rife with anarcho-capitalist ideology. I can only dream of a version of SV that actually carries some measure of economically liberal ideology.

My guess is this guy is confusing social liberalism with economic liberalism. But, of course, that’s the entire right wing schtick these days.

Lionir,

I might be confused but Lunduke doesn’t mention neoliberalism or left-wing ideology in that article - I did.

Of course neoliberalism is to the right of what I’d consider to be left-wing and it works very much hand in hand with conservatism but it’s usually socially liberal. I think Mozilla definitely fits a weird bill, it’s hard to pinpoint because the principles are largely about individual rights yet the addendum definitely feels atleast socially liberal. That said, it seems most of the causes they support are left-wing.

honk,
@honk@feddit.de avatar

Ieft leaning? These orgs sound more like the typical liberal right centrist orgs from america lol

TimTheEnchanter, in Reddit invites mods to “feedback” conversations with the admins

I would love to know how many mods are no longer moderating, have reduced their moderating, or have left Reddit altogether after this whole situation.

I haven’t been on Reddit since the third party apps shut down, so I have no idea what’s going on over there now.

Tolookah,

I know dndmemes went back to sfw, and I’m pretty sure there are no active mods anymore. It looks like one person can post a few things a day, granted this ability by a mod before they were removed.

TheColonel, (edited )

I personally resigned from a subreddit I founded and moderated for 11 years. Had nearly 300k subscribers but enough is enough.

Reddit isn’t like it was when I started using it 17 years ago and it’s not going back.

Fuck Spez.

rhys,
@rhys@rhys.wtf avatar

@TheColonel @TimTheEnchanter 17 years ago is pretty much exactly when reddit became accessible. You were there from the very beginning.

I've been there for 14 years, and this kerfuffle has killed all enthusiasm I had for staying. I've switched to using reddit's RSS feeds for the few subs I can't give up yet (mainly those related to the Ukraine war) but I expect I'll stop using it altogether in short order.

On the plus side, it's furthered my deep distrust of big tech companies.

TimTheEnchanter,

I felt like a Reddit old-timer and I have (had?) been on there 12 years, ha ha! Seventeen years is wild! I don’t have much enthusiasm for staying/going back, either.

TheColonel,

Seventeen years is wild!

Tell me about it! It was hard nuking 17 years worth of content–effectively my online identity–but it was the right thing to do.

FWIW, from a Reddit old timer, Lemmy feels a LOT closer to those early days than whatever is calling itself Reddit these days.

TimTheEnchanter,

I’m really enjoying the vibe of Lemmy so far! Still figuring out how to effectively discover communities on other instances, but I’ll get there eventually.

TheColonel,

I’ve been bouncing between a few different iOS apps (all very similar to Apollo) and browsing the All feeds.

Plus an occasional search to try to find replacements for my favorite communities. Not 100% yet but I m digging the fresh start.

Also commenting way more again!

TimTheEnchanter,

I’ve been using Memmy for that Apollo-like experience, ha ha!

I’ve been trying to comment and post way more, too. Feels nice trying to grow/participate in communities instead of just getting lost in a sea of rage bait. So far I’m liking the slower pace and kinder tone here!

TheColonel,

Word! I’ve been bouncing between wefwef & Memmy, and just started trying Mlem today.

And yeah! I realize in retrospect that’s what I loved about Reddit and had to pare things way back to smaller subreddits in order to keep it feeling that way.

I think this platform has a lot of potential.

Melody,
@Melody@lemmy.one avatar

12 years here.

It was evident that Reddit was not going to play nice the moment Mr. Huffman opened his big trap on network television. Fuck /u/spez, and Fuck Reddit

Lemmy is so much better and it reminds me of what was long lost back in the earliest days of reddit. It’s so much nicer here on Lemmy in general.

Initially; I intended to stay in line with the protest and only close for the 2 days initially proposed.

jherazob,
@jherazob@beehaw.org avatar

One thing i’ve been thinking since a recent CatValente essay from a few days ago, regarding Reddit: Saying “Fuck Spez” sounds quite nice and is catchy but kinda makes it feel like Steve Huffman was one of your buddies that betrayed you, and he never was. We should start using his full name, and accordingly distancing us from that person. Let’s not give him even the privilege of using a nickname. His name is Steve Huffman and we should stop using “Spez” altogether.

sparkl_motion,

Can confirm. At least from someone there from 11 years ago when it was still fun.

jherazob,
@jherazob@beehaw.org avatar

Yes! 17 years too! Mentioned it on a Discord and somebody offered to do it for me, but no, it had to be me, i owed that account at least that.

You know what was surprisingly hard too? Deleting the RemindMeBot reminders. Felt almost as hard.

RealAccountNameHere,
@RealAccountNameHere@beehaw.org avatar

I’d like to thank you for what you did.

I had been on Reddit for a similar amount of time, but I had cycled through a number of usernames during that period. So it wasn’t nearly as big of a loss for me as it was for you—I appreciate the lengths you went for supporting the cause. Thank you. 

TheColonel,

I appreciate you saying that!

audaxdreik,

I still visit using the website in a desktop browser because I can’t help myself, but it’s noticeably different, even on subs like r/games where there was never a shutdown at all. The weekly “What have you been playing?” topic isn’t getting nearly the number of responses as it normally does, and those responses aren’t as well moderated. They used to be very good at keeping people on topic and formatting their posts with game title/system/etc. but all of that is getting a little sideways now, too.

TimTheEnchanter,

I started noticing a drop in the quality of some subs after the blackout, before the third party apps shut down, too. I suspect a lot more subs are that way now.

conciselyverbose,

They blocked one of the biggest mod tools before the APIs generally were restricted.

Pegatron,
@Pegatron@kbin.social avatar

I also still browse the desktop site when I'm at work and I feel like the vibe has nosedived. Shit post subs like AITAH are front paging more than ever, the subs I frequent have less activity and that activity is lower quality. I am getting way more rude, unhelpful, ignorant comments.

crazycanadianloon,

I took a peek at my local sub and a thread asking about a car incident was full of one-liner jokes voted to the top. It was about 2/3 down before I saw an attempt at a real answer and even further down still before anyone wondered if the occupants were OK.

mp3,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

I’m a mod on a 100k sub, and I haven’t done any moderating since mid-june.

admin,
@admin@beehaw.org avatar

I stopped moderating all of the niche subs (that I created) except for two and have, basically, let the mod team run things. I only dip in to check modmail in case a mod needs me. Otherwise, I don’t use Reddit at all. Beehaw!

TimTheEnchanter,

The niche subs are the ones I’ve missed the most, honestly. There were some really great little communities on there!

admin,
@admin@beehaw.org avatar

Oh absolutely! I’ll remain the ‘head mod’ of /r/AskBibleScholars but the mod team there can handle the day-to-day. I’m still considering (and working on) the Q&A section of askbiblescholars.com and hope to provide the same service to the wider Internet.

NightOwl,

Yeah, niche ones provide the most value since the popular ones are the easiest to replace with the larger user base that seeks them out. Too many niche subs sold themselves short on their importance when it being niche was what kept people coming back over leaving due to lack of alternatives for that interest.

inasaba,

I moderated two subreddits over 1m users, one over 250k users, and a handful over 10k users.

Every. single. one. of my team members has left, except for one on one of the tiny subreddits.

TimTheEnchanter,

At this rate there won’t be any mods left to respond to the admins’ feedback request!

Penguincoder,

Working as intended then.

ijeff,
@ijeff@lemdro.id avatar

Some of our most active mods on /r/android left once their apps stopped working. We still keep it up with barebones modding, with a prominent link to !android. Something I’m noticing is that people who were banned from communities on Reddit for inflammatory remarks, trolling, and spam are carrying over their vitriol to the Fediverse.

inasaba,

Time for Ban 2!

MaggiWuerze,
@MaggiWuerze@feddit.de avatar

Subbed

Lexam,

Same, I only know from what I read in the headlines.

CMLVI,
@CMLVI@kbin.social avatar

I and another dude modded a 30k+ sub. There were 5 mods, but the other 3 are basically gone at that point, and I was brought on because I was active in the community. We both left, and within a week users are complaining about the slacking mods and wondering why spam is getting through, why discussion threads aren't posted, etc.

We didn't do anything with the shutdown, as it wasn't "our" community to shut down. We were just brought on for workload reasons. But we're both gone now, and the cracks were showing immediately.

Sadly, I'm fairly certain it's literally just me in the equivalent fed community. Haven't seen any other subs, at least.

Landmammals,

I used to moderate a lot of huge subreddits. Eventually got into the top 50 moderators by subscriber count. It was never a power trip, I just really enjoyed cleaning up garbage from the mod queue.

Obviously reddit is still running without me, but I used to do a shitload of unpaid labor to help keep that site clean. It was worth doing at the time, but everything I used to like about Reddit is gone. I don’t regret doing the work, and I don’t regret leaving.

joeygibson,
@joeygibson@lemmy.one avatar

I was a mod for a 500k+ sub, and I left. I wrote the post about us going dark in protest, and that was the last thing I did. I left myself in the list of mods for a few weeks, just lurking in modmail, seeing the threats from the admins come in. I officially removed myself from the mod team about a week ago. We had 6 active mods, and there are now just two remaining.

Teppic, in FCC says “too bad” to ISPs complaining that listing every fee is too hard
@Teppic@kbin.social avatar

As a European I'll never cease to find it mind blowing that it is normal for a Americans that the cost to them of damn near everything is more than the cost initially shown to them.

HappyMeatbag,
@HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org avatar

You’re completely right to feel that way. As an American, it’s mind blowing to me, too. I really don’t like the fact that “hidden fees” have become normal.

upstream,

Traveling in the US it can often feel like everyone wants to scam you or take advantage of you if you don’t pay attention.

Heck, even store prices and restaurant prices aren’t the real price.

Store prices are without sales tax/VAT, and restaurants wants you to tip 20% so they can keep not paying their “employees”.

HawlSera,

And that’s why I am a misanthrope… hard to love humanity when they’re penalized for not being out to get you

WarmSoda, (edited )

The tax drives me crazy. The excuse for not displaying the total price after tax is because it’s different for each state. …yet the cash register seems to be able to handle that perfectly fine. So it can’t that hard to figure it out.

Edit: after a quick look into it, the main problem is tax in a lot of places is based on the Total amount sold, not on each item. So that could definitely be impossible to display before hand.

Evkob,
@Evkob@lemmy.ca avatar

after a quick look into it, the main problem is tax in a lot of places is based on the Total amount sold, not on each item.

I’m actually confused, aren’t taxes a percentage? The sum of a percentage of all items should be the same as a percentage of the sum, no? Or is my brain not do math good? Can someone smarter than me explain?

WarmSoda,

Hopefully someone can. Me no math good either.
!SeaJ shared this:

taxjar.com/…/can-retailer-include-sales-tax-in-th…

GiuseppeAndTheYeti,

Say you list a table lamp on your website at $100, tax included. Well, if you sell that table lamp to a buyer in Connecticut (where the tax rate is a flat 6.35%) then you’re required to remit $6.35 in sales tax to the state of Connecticut on that transaction.

But if you sell the same table lamp to a buyer in Aberdeen, Washington, where the sales tax rate is 9.08%, then you’d be required to remit $9.08 in sales tax to the state of Washington.

As you can see, you are cutting into your profit margin by including tax in your pricing.

Further, US customers are accustomed to paying their local sales tax rates. We’re so accustomed to paying odd amounts in sales tax that paying a flat rate might surprise us or leave us a little confused.

This is anti-consumer bullshit nonsense. All they did was hid their only real “con” behind a wall of text. “As you can see, you are cutting into your profit margin by including sales tax”

And the last paragraph is fucking stupid too. People are too used to seeing numbers, so other numbers will confuse them!

WarmSoda,

100% agree

astraeus,
@astraeus@programming.dev avatar

Last paragraph feels like marketing language for “it’s free real estate”

TehPers,

The sum of a percentage of all items should be the same as a percentage of the sum, no?

Suppose you buy two items costing x and y, and there’s a constant sales tax of t (say 10%, or 0.1). You’d pay t * x + t * y, or t * (x + y). You can even generalize this to Σ(t * x) = t * Σx (for x ∈ X, where X is the set of prices you’re paying).

In other words, yes.

In case you want the math name for this property, it’s the distributive property.

I think the issue they were bringing up though is that tax is not applied equally to all items, and that tax may be determined by number of items sold. I don’t actually know if this is true or not, but if it is, the distributive property doesn’t apply anymore. Edit: I re-read the comment, that doesn’t look like what they were saying actually. Either way, if tax is weird like this, distributive property may not apply anymore.

ripcord,
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

I'm not aware of anywhere in the US where the tax is variable depending on total amount sold. Sometimes some things are excluded from sales tax. But that's per-item and not variable.

In the vast majority of the US there's no reason they can't just display the price with tax.

Granted, prices on consumer items are so fucking out of control retailers and etc just charge whatever the fuck they want and people are expected to pay it. They're gouging at 80%, 100%, 150% markups on food, clothing, services, etc versus 2 years ago and people seem to just accept it (tough not to when everyone is doing it)

Initially they got away with it because "COVID supply problems", which was frequently a lie or exaggeration. Now there's no excuse given typically; people quote "inflation" but that's a tiny fraction of it. It's just gouging companies have learned they can keep getting away with more and more.

WarmSoda,

Check out the article linked below. I’m interested in what you think after that. Especially with the states that forbid including tax in displayed prices (and why they don’t).

I didn’t know about that until I just read it.

redacted_name,

In Ontario Canada there is no provincial tax component on meals costing less than $4. This dates from the time you could get a simple lunch for < $4. Unfortunately it’s never been adjusted for inflation.

No reason not to show amount with tax and give people a pleasant surprise though

astraeus,
@astraeus@programming.dev avatar

Tax in almost every single place I’ve ever been to in the United States is not nearly so complicated. State tax, occasional city/county tax, seldom restaurant tax are nearly always flat rates. It wouldn’t be difficult to incorporate those taxes applied for each individual item to their prices at all. Most places choose not to because it inflates the price on menus and price tags, and most people assume tax is not included in these prices.

The initial shock of charging more could convince patrons to go elsewhere if it’s not perfectly clear tax is included in the price.

Powderhorn,
@Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

The problem is at the advertising level.

Could your local Safeway put tax-inclusive prices in the circular? Sure, although there are actually laws that prohibit such local pricing (YMMV; I’ve lived in a lot of states) specifically so that people in the sticks aren’t shouldering the entire transportation bill to their IGA. This is why grocery circulars are regional, but that’s an aside. Still, different cities in the region will have different tax rates, so they can’t do tax-inclusive, and they certainly can’t have a different price on the shelf than in the circular, and here we are.

But these are small potatoes.

Now, can Tim Cook release a new iPhone and list the price in every municipality in the U.S. in the keynote? The patchwork of devolved taxing authority makes the U.S. a poor candidate for tax-inclusive pricing.

States universally abandoning income tax for VAT (ain’t never gonna happen, since VAT inconveniently hits even billionaires’ consumption [and even less likely would be pushing through VAT while retaining income tax]) could get things closer to what Europeans have come to expect, where each state would have a universal rate and consistently applied carveouts and then distribute that to lower tiers of government as some states currently do with sales tax, but the closest advertising could get to that would be “state VAT excluded,” at which point nothing has been fixed in terms of walking out the door paying the advertised price at the cost of unpopular economic upheaval.

christopherius,
@christopherius@kbin.social avatar

When I make price signs at work I make sure the price shows taxes and bottle deposits. I think my store is the only one to do that. I manage a liquor store

WarmSoda,

You’re a hero. I hope your customers notice what your doing for them.

Heresy_generator, (edited )
@Heresy_generator@kbin.social avatar

It's actually only a few things. The vast majority of the goods we purchase are clearly priced. Most states (and some local jurisdictions like big cities) do have sales tax applied to purchases of non-essential goods, but those rates are generally much lower than the national sales taxes in most European countries.

knotthatone,

I’m seeing it more and more. Little “processing fees” here and there, some tied to COVID, some tied to credit cards. There needs to be a clap-back against this behavior.

mochi,

How about a “convenience fee” for making an online payment. Why should I pay a fee to make the transaction more convenient for the company who no longer has to pay an employee to take the payment in person?

ripcord,
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

The number of places trying to suddenly add or expect an 18% tip or something infuriates me.

Like, why the fuck are you making me suddenly opt out of an 18% tip, Subway? What the fuck would that be for? And after your prices have gone up like 50% in 3 years already??

And I'm sure a bunch of morons pay it, which is why more and more places are pushing it.

Opafi,

It’s not about having a sales tax applied to some or all goods or about how much that’d be. It’s about not listing the final price including the tax right until you’re supposed to pay for it. How dumb is that?

tim-clark,
@tim-clark@kbin.social avatar

I love oregon, no sales tax so the listed price is the price. Now all these idiots moved here and are making changes as to why this place was nice. Like trying to implement a sales tax and getting rid of the urban growth boundary

Entropywins,
@Entropywins@kbin.social avatar

Now we have to pump our own gas, it was nice having someone do it for ya... if they add a sales tax and create urban sprawl like LA or Phoenix I'll loose my mind...

Powderhorn,
@Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

Just responded above about the downside of all income being taxed at far higher rates than sales tax. That said, my god the amount of ink we spilled on the Ashland UGB.

TehPers,

That’s why you live in Vancouver and shop in Portland! No income tax or sales tax!

Powderhorn,
@Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

My college roommate was from Washougal. He taught me the even finer art of retaining all deposit items in Seattle for my next visit, at which time I’d pop over the 5 bridge first and then show up with an empty car.

Teppic,
@Teppic@kbin.social avatar

Sales tax is the most obvious example of adding to the cost I've been shown, but it's everything. Here if there is a price on something that is the price you pay. Period.
If I have €5 and the price on the shelf is €4.90 we are all good, and I don't even need to know what country I'm in!

But is is more than that, if I take my car in to be fixed, they have to agree every cost they want to charge me in advance at no point can anything cost me more than I expected and agreed to up front.
Airline tickets, theatre tickets, hospital bills, TV ads, you name it, the price they state or advertise is what I pay, no ifs-no buts.

RiikkaTheIcePrincess,
@RiikkaTheIcePrincess@kbin.social avatar

Bragging <.< Trying to make us all jelly.

Or jam, or marmite, or whatever bread-spread-stuff.

WarmSoda,

I think they spread tea on crumpets or something

TehPers,

Last I heard it was beans on tea. Or was it bread on beans, I can’t remember.

WarmSoda,

Idk. But I think if you say crumpets three times fast they break away from your continent.

hypelightfly,

It's actually almost everything unless you live in one of the 4 States without sales tax.

Powderhorn,
@Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

Which, in the case of Oregon, means income tax rivaling federal, and you’re paying that on rent. The money always comes from somewhere, and I despised it far more than I worried about coming up with $1.07 for a 99-cent burger.

hypelightfly,

Yeah, I don't have a problem with sales tax either (on non essential goods). I do have a problem with it not being included in the price shown on the product.

fizgigtiznalkie,

Some things we have to buy without know the cost, hospital/doctor fees, insurance can surprise you, etc.

HawlSera,

It’s why the “Oh the Free Market will sort itself out” is such a bullshit claim.

My five year old who just got shot at the fifth school shooting this month is just gonna have to buckle down and be patient while I compare quality of service and cost of… the one hospital in town and… that one in the next county ever.

/s

Misconduct,

It’s funny because I’ve literally never seen a single person genuinely make that claim. Just people being mad about theoretical people making that claim. I’m sure they exist, they must with how many people claim to know someone that said it, but that line of logic doesn’t seem to be as common as people make it seem.

WarmSoda,

It’s like the national anthem. It’s drilled into our heads since birth, but no one actually knows it.

Powderhorn,
@Powderhorn@beehaw.org avatar

I mean, if you perform it enough times, you tend to retain it. But then, I have some Carmina Burana and Palestrina memorized for the same reason.

WarmSoda,

9 years I had to sing it. I don’t remember it past The first two lines. But I like to block things like that out in my head.

ripcord, (edited )
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

I have run into many people making that claim.

Online, offline, politicians, etc.

And on the free market isnt sorting itself out - the claim is usually that the gubment is still not letting the market be free enough. That's usually the claim, for example, from all the right-wingers I know for when they get cornered on why health care costs are 1000% ridiculous.

ChojinDSL,
@ChojinDSL@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Republicans: “Free market!” Also republicans: “Buy American” “we need to ban Chinese companies from importing and selling goods in the u.s.” “Outsourcing labor is just smart business”

Franzia,

It’s government mandated. We have variable sales taxes on every product. And it isn’t included in the ‘price’.

dark_stang,
@dark_stang@beehaw.org avatar

Stores can show out the door pricing of most products, they just won’t. It’s fairly common in the cannabis space because they don’t want to make change.

Franzia,

Nice!

SeaJ,
upstream,

No it isn’t. But companies are certainly trying to make it so.

Stumblinbear,
@Stumblinbear@pawb.social avatar

Variable taxes based on region. The rates don’t change within a single store, which is where all of the labels are printed. Just print the label with the tax added.

ripcord,
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

Right. Same excuse as the cable companies. They can clearly calculate the price easily when you get the bill. They can just as easily calculate it when showing you how much it costs.

Stumblinbear,
@Stumblinbear@pawb.social avatar

That or they can just eat the very minor cost difference in each region

Noughmad,

That’s still my favorite EU legislation. The price that is displayed must be equal (or higher, discounts are still allowed) to the price that you pay. Taxes, tips, fees, everything must be included in the price.

variaatio,

I get the “but different states sales taxes thing”, for national advert. However even then, just make them present example price

Get the new Moborola Bazer, only 549 dollars*

  • price example for Buffalo new York, including taxes and fees

Since if one is going with “well the final price you pay might not be what was advertised”, make it be more representative and real. Yeah the final price might be different sometimes even lower depending on your local taxes compared to the example prices calculation locations taxes.

Local advertising or on the shelf prices? There is no excuse, you are selling in that location. You know what the taxes and fees are just add them in. Any rare special discount and discrepancy cases, well the people eligible for those know to expect the difference.

LinkOpensChest_wav, in Stop using Brave Browser
@LinkOpensChest_wav@beehaw.org avatar

I don’t trust homophobes or cryptobros, especially not those with a history of selling users out like Brendan Eich

ours,

Especially when there is Firefox and Firefox-based, privacy-focused alternative with great add-blocking and privacy extensions.

gamer,

I don’t trust anyone who invented Javascript.

scrubbles, in Apple already shipped attestation on the web, and we barely noticed
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

“Sorry, your device appears to be running Linux, please only use approved Apple or Windows devices to log in, with our required surveillance system pro installed. Thanks.”

floofloof,

Unfair. Google, Amazon and Facebook devices will also be allowed.

aperson,

Should you chose not to continue, you agree to kick yourself in the balls.

peter,
@peter@feddit.uk avatar

Companies can already do that

teawrecks,

Yeah, but so far you can just spoof your user agent. Not sure how easy cracking private access tokens will be. I assume they’ll be pretty proactive about keeping it locked down.

Fed,

Just use a vm

DzikiMarian,

That’s easily detectable. Try beating Google Safety Net that way.

TheOakTree,

…do you really think the devs of these systems don’t understand how to distinguish VMs from authentic devices in their device authenticating platform?

teawrecks,

Again, not an expert on Private Access Tokens, but I assumed the entire point is that it’s a proprietary black box piece of hardware that’s authenticating your device. If it’s just passing a token generated in software, it would be trivial to bypass even without a VM.

Could you explain to me better what the VM would accomplish in this situation?

DzikiMarian,

“Can” and “have a reason” are different things. With attestation they actually have a reason.

gigachad,

Google already does that with Android and SafetyNet

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