It's not your empathic abilities, Troi. It's the amount of leading question and interpretations you barrage your clients with that leads me to the conclusion that... well... you are a little shit at your job.
Yes! I kind of always felt this was an intentional sub-text. Deanna is presented as trustworthy, but maybe Broccoli’s previous betazoid ships counselor was not.
A telepath? Definitely not. But an empath, like Troi? Sure! She just gets impressions of emotions; it’s not as if she can hear your internal monologue.
Absolutely, that was my point and I worded it poorly :) If Troi were any more telepathic, Starfleet shouldn't allow her to practice mental health services. She's right at the edge where it's really useful before it becomes terrifying.
Um, yes? Assuming I haven’t done anything that will get me in trouble, and that the society we’re in doesn’t punish wrongthink, then most definitely; a mind reader should be much better at counseling than anyone else.
So Vader is an all powerful empath who can sense all kinds of shit over lightyears but he can be immediately thwarted if someone lied to him 20 years ago?
Not the take you think it is. The fact there was zero hesitation means he’s either an absolute idiot who doesn’t acknowledge personal feelings/vibes/hunches (which doesn’t match with anything we’ve ever seen from Anakin) or his powers to sense other peoples presence is greatly over exaggerated.
I think a better suggestion is that she was weakened by the stun blaster. Leia hadn’t developed her force powers much at all at that point, so being in a weakened state could lead Vader to thinking nothing much of her. He would expect his child to be unusually powerful, of course.
Honestly I believe “20 years of hatred fueled by the belief that both of your children are dead clouds your perception” over “well she got stun gunned recently” lol
I don’t buy that. He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole thing is dealing with people who are force sensitive and either killing them or turning them. Also, thanks to George Lucas, there’s another major sticking point. Midichlorians. Vader would have been able to sense them in her regardless of being stunned or even conscious.
Yeahhhhhh see there’s your problem. You’re taking Star Wars lore too literally. Don’t you know you can’t take every little thing Star Wars adds and assume its actually supposed to make any sense other than “this sounds cool”?
Oh I know. I just like pointing it out with Star Wars. In Trek you can find consistency but in Star Wars there’s fucking none. It’s the movie equivalent of kids playing with action figures and one-upping each other every 5 seconds with some new OP abilities.
People in general are really bad at reconsidering life-defining events under a different light, impulsive people most of all, so it’s not out of character for Vader to ignore any instincts that tell him there’s a connection between him and Leia.
Vader could likely sense that Leia had some latent Force Sensitivity, but so do a lot of people. The inquisitors only cared if they were former Jedi or Jedi in training.
He also didn’t realize Luke, whom he almost killed at the end of the movie, was his son either. At least not immediately.
Since Luke still called himself “Skywalker”, it was pretty easy for him to put 2-and-2 together after the Death Star event. He had to read Luke’s mind on the second Death Star to figure out that he even had a daughter (Anakin did not know Padme was having twins, so he never bothered to search for another child after Luke) and even then he still doesn’t know it was Leia Organa, he only refers to her as “your sister”.
Obviously the precognition that comes from being an adept user of the Force doesn’t allow you to simply pluck knowledge from thin air.
Here’s my cool guess: Maybe he can sense her, but she was introduced to him as an important political figure first, which caused a blindspot in identifying any personal relevance she may have to him. Luke was sensed without any context because he was actively training?
My guess was always that she was an active Force user, but since she didn't spend a lot of time around other Force users, she learned to use her power defensively (being taught to hide from enemies as a child).
So she developed a natural "cloaking" effect, which she cultivated over time, and used to keep hiding from people (her father, the Empire) during her various escapades, so by the time she met Vader all her skill points were dumped into Hide in Plain Sight.
...and since why would Vader bother taking a second look at the Force presence of a random Senator's daughter...
Rogue One shows Vader on a Rebel ship. A smaller ship undocks from that ship and speeds off. Vader watches it speed away. 5-10 minutes later, Vader catches up with it and boards it. That’s the opening of A New Hope.
She isn’t some random Senators daughter. She is someone who is on-board a rebel ship that’s holding information Vader wants back. Her being a Senators daughter and using the diplomatic immunity argument paints an even larger target on her.
She was his daughter, and based on Lukes feats and Yodas yammering, she is also insanely powerful. It is fully possible her raw force powers, instinctively honed into an “you ain’t seeing shit” effect over her entire life, are strong enough to bluff him.
The real cause is that she wasent his daughter at this point in the movies, because luke and leia weren’t related in the first one. George “i want han solo to be a lizard man” lucas leaned in and made it “weird” after the fact.
Rogue One shatters that. At the end of the movie, we see Vader rip apart a bunch of rebels who are getting information to Leia. It ends minutes before A New Hope begins. Vader then shows up on Leias ship and immediately starts ripping into her. Whether Vader knew about her prior to this encounter, it shouldn’t matter. She is now a known ally of the Rebellion. He’s been known to squeeze information out of anyone with no hesitation, being able to sense their intent from miles away, but she completely bluffs him? This young woman who he knows is a rebel? He’s the leader of the Inquisitors. His whole deal is finding people who are force sensitive and then either killing or turning them. He’s been training people for years, able to sense levels of force sensitivity in them that the person isn’t even aware of.
People complain about NuTrek breaking established canon but there’s literally no example of it. Meanwhile Star Wars has written itself into such an extreme corner that their movies no longer make sense.
I read an interview with Dave Filoni. He basically said that what he’s trying to fix with all the Star Wars shows on Disney+. He’s trying to fill in the major plot holes, clarify stuff the writers left vague, and make the movies at least somewhat reasonable.
As a nerd, I appreciate the effort, but he’s got a LOT of work to do.
I heard that he was doing that to bridge the gap between the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy, and that’s coming along well, but if he’s trying to bridge the gap between the Prequels and the Originals then he’s doing a genuinely terrible job. A lot of the inconsistencies between those two trilogies have come about because of his involvement and his shows. At that point he’d just be trying to clean up his own mess while patting himself on the back.
Ah okay. Then yeah, he’s doing a great job there in my opinion. I could always kinda see where they were going between OT and ST so didn’t bother me much. I also actively liked Lukes decline in TLJ and thought it fit the character really well. A dude who had been lifted up as the savior of the galaxy having a single moment of weakness and fear, his fight against the dark side slipping only for a moment but enough to do lasting damage? Loved it.
How did she bluff Vader? He took her and tortured and interrogated her, he didn’t fall for her lie. And she didn’t even know she was his daughter at the time, so why would he have sensed that?
Oh that’s 100% what it is. People complain about the Sequel Trilogy for ‘not having a plan’ but they also seem to be purposefully ignoring the fact that nothing in Star Wars was planned. The power levels for everyone are so stupidly inconsistent that you can’t keep track. Vader is, in effect, a fucking God according to everything we’ve seen him in. With all the canon additions like Rebels, Jedi: Survivor, Kenobi, and all the comics we’re seeing him at a power level thats, forgive the meme, over 9000.
Then A New Hope starts and he’s a wet fish with no abilities at all and doesn’t know how to swing a lightsaber. Kenobi says “Strike me down and i’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. Meanwhile that apparently translates to “I’ll show up as a force ghost a couple of times and help in no way whatsoever”. Yoda is a little grumpy gremlin in the Original Trilogy but is playing War Crimes Ping Pong in the Prequels/Clone Wars while being devastatingly powerful.
The writing for Star Wars just sucks because they keep focusing on the same 15 years before A New Hope. They’ve added so much to Canon that by the time you hit the Original Trilogy everything suddenly downgrades massively. At least Star Trek stayed consistent with its prequel stuff. Enterprise added a few extras, Discovery and Strange New Worlds expanded on some, but none of them created tech so stupidly powerful that it undoes everything in Trek after that point. You could argue the Spore Drive but at least Season 2 gives a solid reason as to why it never appeared in later Trek. There’s no excuse for why Vader goes from someone who can force choke people in orbit to a dude who can’t swing a fucking lightsaber without making it look like he’s using 99% of his effort to move in that suit.
First off, they were a visual redesign. That’s it. It didn’t fuck with established lore or canon.
Second, if you want to talk about Klingons being inconsistent then you need to start with TOS, not the prequels. Klingons changed so drastically between TOS and the movies that Enterprise had to come up with an explanation for it.
Like when Kirk et al left the galaxy but it’s going to take Voyager decades to get back from another quadrant.
We could go on about just Voyager honestly.
Stardates.
The Warp Speed Limit appears to have just been dropped.
Pretty sure Kirk also broke warp 10 before and no one turned in to a lizard.
Star Trek has plenty of inconsistency too, these are just some examples.
It sounds more like you’re unhappy someone is criticizing a thing you like. We like it too. Sometimes we do it so someone who is writing can recognize a problem and improve. Sometimes we do it because it’s fun. Like Weird Al parodying a song you like.
I think ‘foresaw his wife’s pained death, choked her out in a fit of rage on a lava planet, lost consciousness, then woke up and immediately learned she had died (which was true by then)’ is a bit more convincing evidence his kids didn’t make it than ‘someone lied to him’.
As with all the memes I post, I cannot take credit for making them but I completely agree. The ‘hurr durr’ face that was chosen for Troi, as well as the ‘Done with this shit’ face, couldn’t have been chosen better.
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