airikr,

I am so happy to live in Sweden. All open WiFi networks here are free to use and requires no email or account (VPN recommended as always, though). Even at grocery stores.

CallOfTheWild,

That’s generally true in the US as well. That’s why people are so outraged by this.

airikr,

So Walmart has done it again, huh?

Aggravationstation,

Lol, I’m jealous. Pretty much all public WiFi requires login in the UK.

mayonaise_met,

It was very easy to get free WiFi in the US compared to most EU countries I’ve been in. But here in the EU at least I have cheap data so it’s not all bad.

Molecular0079,

This might be anecdotal tbh. I am in the US and I run into captive portals all the freaking time. It’s so annoying.

KpntAutismus,

i’m pretty lucky to have unlimited data included with my phone plan. i would 100% have been hacked by now. public wifi is scary.

qupada,

That's great, unless the store you're in is a giant concrete bunker.
Mobile data barely works in my neighbourhood supermarket; even text-based communication is frequently dicey, but you want to send someone a photo of something as a "should I buy this"? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Polar,

Then buy it, or come back later.

Why open yourself up to all the nasty of public WiFi for that?

Either you’re buying something cheap, so just do it. Or it’s something expensive, and in that case a simple quick message isn’t really enough. Go out to the parking lot and talk about it, or come back later.

Boring,

I created an account while in the store with an email of [email protected] and a basic password and surprisingly didn’t have to verify the email. Then turned on a VPN to my house.

I plan on just creating a new account every time I go in just to fill up their database with nonsense.

Maeve,

Not Walmart, not wifi but my default is <randomstring>@gfy.com

geekworking, (edited )

You do realize that they are actually tracking the device itself by the hardware MAC address and other device fingerprints.

The email is just a bonus to let them legally spam you. Anti-spam laws have an exemption. If there’s a prior business relationship like shopping in their stores, they can put you on their spam list unless you opt out.

Bogus email only helps for spam but doesn’t do anything about tracking.

EDIT: For Android when there’s a Captive Portal like the screen shot. devices will use Persistent randomization which while not the hardware MAC will remain the same for the same network where they can track your visits.

Dark_Arc,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Pretty much all modern phones randomize the MAC address everytime they connect to a network unless the user explicitly says not to do that.

geekworking,

When there’s a Captive Portal like the screenshot, many devices use a random but persistent mac for that network avoid reauthorization after any network drop. This will make your access to the specific network trackable.

Boring,

But can’t you go manually forget the network in your device network options to circumvent this?

Dark_Arc,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

I’d assume after a certain amount of time or after moving far enough away from the network it “forgets” the last randomized MAC address?

It doesn’t really make sense to store these things long term.

wreckedcarzz,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

chuckles in GrapheneOS

(per-connection random MAC, for all networks, by default)

Molecular0079,

This is actually just part of stock Android. My Pixel 5 has MAC randomization on by default for new Wi-Fi networks.

wreckedcarzz,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

It’s per-network, not per-connection. Though that option does exist but is hidden away under developer settings.

Molecular0079,

Oh you mean like per TCP connection?

wreckedcarzz,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not at the packet level - by default on gOS (and a dev option on stock pixels), every time you connect to a network, even ones you have connected to prior, you get a new random MAC. The standard aosp/pixels do one random but persistent MAC randomization. This only helps marginally from a privacy standpoint. Per-connection makes this data point useless, thereby increasing privacy.

lemann,

randomize the MAC address everytime they connect to a network

+1, had issues using Android devices for presence detection because of this very useful privacy feature. Even on your home network, the MAC address and device hostname get randomized, unless disabled in the settings

Edit: typo

Boring,

GrapheneOS let’s me do a per-connection randomized MAC.

I’m sure they do collect a lot more about my device, but there’s not much I can do about it short of wrapping my phone in tin foil.

wreckedcarzz,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t forget to disable wifi and bluetooth before approaching the store, as those give off unique identifiers too.

asg101,

GIGO (Garbage in, garbage out) is the correct way to deal with the surveillance system.

DarkDarkHouse,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

This makes me feel a lot better about ChatGPT garbage corrupting Google search results.

Altecheon,

Fun fact: Android developer options has a Disabled Persistent Mac address randomization toggle. Or at least Pixel phones do

DannyMac,
@DannyMac@lemmy.world avatar

Cool, is [email protected] still available?

glitch1985,

It is not. You need to add a number at the end.

hperrin,

inhell.info is available and Postfix is a thing.

Xianshi,

This is the way. Fuck them.

Zastyion345,

Don’t forget to spoof your MAC address so they cant see who is making the fake accounts ;D

possiblylinux127,

That’s done automatically on mobile devices

Lizardking27,

In my experience you can type any vaguely email-like string there.

[email protected]

Or something.

generic,
@generic@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar
NumbersCanBeFun,
@NumbersCanBeFun@kbin.social avatar

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • Xianshi, (edited )

    I use a real sounding name like [email protected]

    The more real it appears the harder it is to distinguish garbage data. Also a personal VPN with aguard home running. If I end up choosing a real existing email, well I’m just helping muddy the profile of someone else.

    No shopping apps ever, loyalty cards in a fake name with email aliases to a central junk mailbox.

    To hell with the lot of them and their business model.

    They can profile the device and get hardware info depending on make and software etc but the gold is their app which sucks up everything including your phone number and what you visit on their network. I wouldn’t dream of connecting without a vpn unless it was an emergency situation.

    That being said data is always preferable when you have the option.

    CoolYori,

    People that make systems like these are not scared of those that stop using em. What they fear is getting information wrong or spam. Using these facts you can then adjust to the changes.

    ItsComplicated,

    Imo, this is part of the problem with lack of privacy in today’s world.

    People will accept this more than not, without a second thought. This leads to the taking of a little bit more until one day you are left wondering where your privacy went.

    Again, this is just my humble opinion.

    eumesmo,

    And the poorer people find themselves having to trade their privacy for access to technology.

    yukichigai,
    @yukichigai@kbin.social avatar

    From personal experience I've found that an OpenVPN connection routed over port 53 (same as DNS) bypasses their signin screen entirely.

    Of course it's been months since I last tried since I rarely go into the store and don't have reception issues when I do. Could be they've patched it since. Still worth a shot.

    Quik,

    Now I have to imagine you standing in the store scanning ports just to get somewhat usable Wi-Fi :)

    yukichigai,
    @yukichigai@kbin.social avatar

    This may or may not have actually happened.

    ...okay it totally did.

    Linus_Torvalds,

    You are a hero, never change :)

    yukichigai,
    @yukichigai@kbin.social avatar

    Most definitely. Can't stop the tinkering. :3

    Linus_Torvalds,

    Many people here suggesting a throwaway email and/or VPN. While this does migitate the impact somewhat, the only proper response is to not use their “service” and deactivate the WiFi fo your phone (else they might be tracking your MAC address).

    DocBlaze,

    tethering is far superior if you have the data plan anyway. but even apple lets you randomize your Mac these days, and on android it’s trivial to if you get root access.

    Linus_Torvalds,

    Getting root access is not though. (Right? Or is it easy nowadays?)

    eumesmo,

    Still far from easy for the average user.

    atocci,
    @atocci@kbin.social avatar

    Downright impossible on many devices

    wreckedcarzz,
    @wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

    Which is why we don’t buy those devices

    digdug,

    Android has allowed you to randomize your mac for a long time, and is currently the default setting. In developer options you can even toggle a setting to enable non-persistent randomization.

    Maximilious,
    @Maximilious@kbin.social avatar

    Walmart has an interesting app where if you're connected to their wifi then the app "transforms" to tell you what's in stock in the store you're connected to. I wish they'd just do something like Home Depot where the site just tells you if X location has an item or not, but alas.

    atocci,
    @atocci@kbin.social avatar

    Wait, do they not do that anymore? I used to be able to search on their website for an item and it wold tell me if it's in stock at the store I selected and the aisle it's in if they have it.

    KazuyaDarklight,
    @KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

    Android randomizes Mac by default.

    gullible,

    Your phone simply being in the store with Wi-Fi enabled makes you personally identifiable. A request for your email when they have your location, shopping habits, taste in electronics, estimated address, browsing habits, and your full appearance isn't shocking. That no one has pointed this out yet is a bit eye opening.

    ashtrix,

    That was an interesting read. Didn’t know stores were doing that.

    DocBlaze, (edited )

    “If you are an angry man of 30, and it is Friday evening, it may offer you a bottle of whiskey,” said Ekaterina Savchenko, the company’s head of > marketing.

    I feel personally attacked.

    I’ve started using a faraday pouch for everything, from my phone to my car key fob. if you use a device with a masked MAC address in a privacy protecting OS, and don’t auto connect to networks otherwise, perhaps it’s better.

    Number1SummerJam,
    @Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world avatar

    Buy RFID/NFC shields for all your tap cards in your wallet, these can be used to track your presence

    DocBlaze,

    yeah I just switched my wallet and that is why I never used that feature. I literally just found out maybe 3 days ago I have a tap card when the cashier told me. I was horrified. I feel like the time you save tapping as opposed to swiping or inserting isn’t worth the security and privacy risks.

    these engineers keep making new stuff that’s kind of interesting at best but we don’t even need that we end up being inconvenienced by. tap cards save .07 seconds but you end up having to protect your card from thieves and extreme tracking by retailers, and it’s disgusting. it’s time to go back to cash.

    KLISHDFSDF,
    @KLISHDFSDF@lemmy.ml avatar

    Mac address randomization has been enabled by default since Android 10. I would assume iPhone does something similar.

    Linus_Torvalds,

    Oh, ok. Thanks for linking it! :)

    gullible,

    iOS requires each network to individually be randomized, there’s no singular setting, unfortunately.

    wreckedcarzz,
    @wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

    Per-network, though, not per-connection.

    Kuvwert,

    Temp-mail.org

    squiblet,
    @squiblet@kbin.social avatar

    At least they're telling you. There's also a lot of hidden surveillance in stores - they've done it with Bluetooth and cameras for some time. Things like monitoring how long you look at products and evaluating your reactions to displays.

    Sabata11792,
    @Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

    At least they're telling you.

    Now there telling you. They just didn't ask for consent before.

    squiblet,
    @squiblet@kbin.social avatar

    That's what I mean.

    rynzcycle,

    That's why I always introduce a good bit of entropy to my shopping patterns:

    -Enter and go straight to produce
    -Spend 20 minutes examining eggplants
    -Walk up and down 5 aisles pausing exactly the square of the aisle number in seconds.
    -Grab a box of tampons
    -Grab what I need as quickly as possible
    -Return tampons
    -Checkout and leave

    Somewhere a marketing team is spending hours trying to figure out how to improve the conversion rates for tampons and eggplants for customers in my demo.

    circuscritic,

    Don’t forget to flick and knock on various fruits and vegetables. Randomize how many flicks/knocks per item, and throw in a few on produce items that normally don’t get that kind of test e.g. grapes or potatoes.

    Linus_Torvalds,

    Wait, there are fruits/veggies that get this kind of treatment by typical customers? Please list a few.

    korok,
    @korok@possumpat.io avatar

    Melons and squashes (inc. pumpkins).

    I believe the idea is to allow you to roughly evaluate the density of the produce, to avoid e.g. mushy grainy watermelon or weird squashes that don’t have their expected hollowness.

    DocBlaze,

    isn’t that why Kramer was bowling watermelons down the aisle (dating myself a bit here)

    DocBlaze,

    This is even more hilarious if you read it in Dale Gribble’s (from King of the Hill) voice

    jdf038,

    Then throw some pocketsand at the end

    Shaaahhhhhh

    Scubus,

    Don’t forget to be visibly revolted by any ads you happen to glance at

    sir_reginald,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    Try luck with throwaway email + VPN. Although it’s possible they’ll still be able to identity you if you’re the only one using that VPN on your local Walmart. At least they won’t be able to see your traffic.

    danielton,

    I think the point of this post is all the stuff below the email field. Yikes.

    deweydecibel,

    That data isn’t nothing, either. Over ten years ago, Target was able to use shoppers habits to determine when women were pregnant, sometimes even before the women knew.

    www.nytimes.com/2012/02/…/shopping-habits.html

    Imagine how much more robust this has gotten 10 years later.

    TheGoldenGod,
    @TheGoldenGod@lemmy.world avatar

    Exactly, a damn good reason to avoid the Wi-Fi in stores altogether. So many wifi access points are super weak in security and super sketchy.

    I try sticking to my home where I can manage it like a nervous hawk.

    minorsecond,

    Would using a VPN remedy this?

    theneverfox,
    @theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

    Not really. With https luckily being the default, at most they could get the sites you were going to (I don’t think dnss is dead, but it’s been very slow to grow unfortunately).

    They could probably see if you’re checking Amazon or Google, but wouldn’t be able to see what you’re looking at exactly. Theoretically they could use cameras and or triangulation to see what you’re in front of when you use the Internet, but a VPN would still show traffic so they’d know you’re looking up something.

    The big thing this would do is act like a loyalty card… They give you some amount of benefit in exchange for tracking your purchases in ever higher detail. Mostly it’s just like that, except they’d also be able to see how long you are in the store, and ideally they can link it to your purchases so they can infer more about it

    FWIW, I wouldn’t only consider giving them a disposable email

    Nahvi,

    This is a fantastic read.

    I remember febreeze coming out and being like, that would be cool but you can’t trust ads and it sounds like total BS. I knew they added a scent, but I had not idea about the subtle social manipulation that they used to shift people’s habits.

    Speaking of habits, this is the first time I have heard about all the science involved in studying and breaking them.

    Thank you for that link. Definitely going to save it.

    hperrin,

    Now they can tell when women are pregnant before they even have sex.

    Taleya,

    Bub, they always did this.

    They just tell you that they’re doing it now.

    danielton,

    I was responding to all the people who said “just use a fake email,” bub…

    Molecular0079,

    Well now they can legally use that data since you now have to agree to the terms.

    Illecors,

    Have you tried using any email? Literal example:

    [email protected]

    Somw setups don’t validate much

    danielton,

    Have you tried reading all the stuff below the email field?

    Illecors,

    I have. They don’t need your email to do it. In fact, they’ve been doing it forever. Your phone is a bt and wifi beacon.

    My comment was to literally try helping op get at least some use out of their predatory behaviour.

    neuracnu,
    @neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Junk email + VPN, but I’ve found that most free wifi services like this explicitly try to inhibit the functionality of mobile VPN clients.

    Z3k3,

    The irony being open wifi like this absolutely need a vpn running

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