Lemmy.world users can still post on beehaw communities but only other lemmy.world users will be able to see and interact with those posts. You’re probably seeing people post on the same beehaw communities that they subbed to either without realizing that they are defederates or not understanding what that means. It will basically always be better now to find somewhere else to post if you want to reach a wider audience now. So instead of using the beehaw gaming community it would be better to use a lemmy.world one for example. That being said, since lemmy.world is the largest instance at the moment, even posting on a beehaw community and only reaching other lemmy.world users who happen to be subscribed to that defederated beehaw community (or who browse all) will still probably reach a wider audience than someone in beehaw posting to other beehaw users for example.
That post does a better job of explaining in more detail if you want to learn more. It really isn’t so bad once you get a little bit of experience with it.
If an instance is defederated, is there any way Lemmy pings the other instance to let them know, like in the code? I think it might be useful, at least on first thought now, to then maybe hide those communities on the defederated (non “true”) instance. Not unsubscribe on the user end, but maybe not populate when searched, hide in subs list, and don’t show in feeds. A shadow block or something. Then unhide on refederation since none of the posts that happened in between will be back-synced, so to speak. I think that’ll alleviate the confusion. Or it might create more. I don’t know. 😂
I can see where you’re coming from for sure. There is nothing stopping lemmy.world from defederating as well which would clear up any confusion like this at the cost of further restricting its users. It would be nice though to have something like a visual warning or something letting the user know if they are visiting a community that is hosted on an instance which has defederated from their home instance. It could be something as simple as a little icon that if you click on it will link to a page explaining what defederation is or something.
The Lemmy moderation tools are still in their infancy and the open registration nature of sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world meant that beehaw.org was receiving an unsustainable flow of trolls.
No, they won’t be able to. The way that it works is since lemmy.world is defederated, beehaw won’t give or receive any information about changes made to their instance by lemmy.world users. When a different instance “visits” an outside instance like that they are really just creating a copy of the instance which is where the Lemmy.world users would be posting. Just like lemmy.world, any other instances, even ones we federate with, will create their own copy of beehaw’s instance whenever they visit. The issue is that since we are defederated beehaw doesn’t receive our updates therefore anyone going to beehaw to create their own copy won’t see our updates to that instance either. The post that I linked explains it better I think but that’s the gist anyway. Short answer, no, even if another instance federated with us they won’t see it. They don’t come to us to get the latest version of beehaw’s community, they go to beehaw. And since beehaw doesn’t let us update their version anyone who goes to them won’t receive our updates either.
For the most part that won’t be the case. They’ll all be interconnected. Beehaw is the only instance that I’m aware of that defederates as aggressively as they do. If you go to the bottom of any instance and click the “instances” link you can see who they have defederated. Most of them will have none or maybe a few defederated at most. Check out beehaw’s and you’ll see what I mean.
For a long time beehaw’s aggressive defederation and moderation policies made a large impact on the feel of Lemmy as a whole since they made up a decent portion of the user base, but now that there is more migration elsewhere like lemmy.world it’s just not as relevant what they do anymore. And with their sign ups being the way they are they will only become more and more irrelevant to the overall feeling of Lemmy. Which isn’t a bad thing for them necessarily. If they only want a small safe space or whatever then they are more than welcome to cultivate that however they want. But I wouldn’t be concerned about defederation on a larger scale where you never know if you’re posting on a defederated instance or not. Like 99% of the time everything will be federated.
lemmy.world is still on their blocked instances list, so you might be seeing data pre-defederation. The problem is that it seems you can interact with it but our instance will never be able to relay the content to beehaw (because we are blocked), so it’s like talking to a wall.
Yeah, that’s exactly what happened. A lot of hateful people liked Bud Light so when their favorite beer profused inclusivity, they started hating the beer too. I live in the Bible/light beer belt and Bud Light was the top choice of drink for lots of people. Now they hate it.
As for why the reaction has been so strong, LGBTQ+ rights have been a huge topic for conservatives lately. The greater acceptance of people in these groups has been used by conservative politicians and “news” organizations to stir up fear so they could get more votes/views. So when a company started marketing the acceptance that aligned with their campaigns/stories, they could say “see, we told everyone they were coming for you.”
They paid Dylan Mulvaney (a trans woman) for a sponsored instagram post and sent her a beer can with her face on it. Conservatives got mad because they are giant bigoted babies. That’s it.
I saw the pic and i guess i hoped there was more of a story. Conservatives seem to boycott stuff on a whim after an ad… I remember when my old boss stopped buying diet coke after a super bowl commercial (2017) because they supported “illegal immigration”. i looked it up afterward and it was a bunch of people singing “america the beautiful” in different languages.
Magazines is just what they call communities/subreddits on kbin. Instances is the server/site those communities/magazines are made in
As for beehaw… just stay away from communities made there for now regardless of your instance, because you won’t be able to interact with a major portion of users in those communities (those of us from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works)
Magazines (kbin) and Communities (Lemmy) are the naming conventions for the group type of posts offered - like subreddits. Magazines and Communities are effectively the same thing, just different naming conventions from their different backbone software running on the instance.
Instances are the full server in which the communities and users are held. Like sh.itjust.works is an instance - it’s the page where you can log into in order to then interact with anything both housed within your instance as well as the greater fediverse (barring any defederated instances, as you mentioned).
I wouldn’t call them irrelevant, but after they de-federated from the two other biggest mainstream general instances, they are (for now) irrelevant to a huge number of Lemmy users. So even if you can post there, a huge number of users can’t reply
If you want to see Lemmy as one large network, Beehaw have broken them selves off from a large part of that network. Of course Lemmy isn’t really just one big network, but also many small networks, like extremist instances that are already de-federated from mainstream instances.
Beehaw has explicitly set out to create a safe space for their users. This is not necessarily compatible with a more wild-west approach of open signups. Their 4 admins/moderator were simply swamped by bad actors from sh.itjust.works and Lemmy.world, so for now they de-federated pending better moderation tools
Of course it’s well within their right to do so, but as an outsider I’m now much more wary of building anything in their walled garden, in case they decide to close it off further
beehaw.org blocked lemmy.world. which works like you'd expect blocking someone would work. they can't interact with each other, can't participate in each other's communities, etc.
lemmy.world still "has" content from beehaw before the block happened. you can still see it and interact with it, but anything you do on beehaw communities that you have copies of won't get synced to beehaw, and thus can't be seen by anyone else on the fediverse.
you shouldn't be getting new posts from beehaw at all, other than comments inside of non-beehaw communities (such as in a kbin magazine where a beehaw user comments).
That’s because it’s a punk music site. I can’t say what type of people they are because I don’t fit their server (into specific punk types, from UK, Australia or NZ, among others), so I’m not even gonna try to join. For the most part, punk skinheads are alright. I’ve know quite a few in my life and they weren’t racist a bit. Not to say there aren’t racist skinheads, but from my experience the majority are not racist and anti-fascist. I’ve even been to a couple of punk shows and the crowd was wild but there weren’t any assholes as I saw, but again, that’s only my experience.
Thanks for the info. I was just scrolling through all the server names and that caught my eye. I was also amazed at the sheer number of servers listed. Some of these federated servers must have only a handful of users (if not just 1).
As for the servers, there are quite a few that are personal servers for themselves, friends and/or family, or specific hobbies. It’s one of my favorite things about the fediverse. Anyone can create an instance for whatever they choose. It’s great.
All of these services are very new. Exactly what people want out of them — including what the people operating instances want out of them — is still being worked out.
This is not a commercial production service that you have a contract with. It’s an experimental system run by volunteers who don’t all have the same ideas in mind. People aren’t just working out the kinks — the process of discovering what this is all really for is still ongoing.
To clarify a minor point, beehaw isn’t new. It was established in Feb 2022, and it’s been thriving with a relatively small community up until this months crazy growth. They’re not so much finding their feet as trying to maintain an existing communities safety in the face of rapid growth.
Not at all. They’ve been one of the largest instances on lemmy for over a year, and they federated widely during that time. The issue is that lemmy is still a relatively immature platform in terms of moderation features. The workload on their moderators to sustain federation and community safety with rudimentary moderation tools whilst the threadiverse population increases in size over 1000 fold is incredibly high.
So until moderation tools improve, their options are
Give up their safety focus. We can assume that’s not going to happen
Find more admins, which is easier said than done, because at this point in time, one of the lacking moderation features is the ability to add instance moderators. Right now, the only instance elevated role is admin. You have to be able to trust the new admin with the keys to everything.
Defederate with instances that threaten their high value on community safety
My point is, there wasn’t really all that much content on other instances that would have posed a problem from a federation perspective before Lemmy blew up due to the reddit stuff. They largely were used to being in their own bubble with limited outside influence due to the obscurity of the Lemmy platform broadly.
I respect their desire to form the community how they see fit. That’s the beauty of the fediverse after all. I think it’ll be confusing for new users though who aren’t used to federation, both from those outside the instance and those who only created an account there because it hosted several large communities without really thinking about the implications of what the admins desire for their instance.
The answer is to create communities that mirror their biggest on more general purpose instances. A lot of contributors to Beehaw’s communities who weren’t on their instance probably feel a little miffed that they were helping pump content onto the Lemmy platform broadly, and now they’ve been defederated. Kinda sucks, but a good lesson for choosing your instance and the instance of communities you choose to contribute content to and help build, I guess.
Everything you’ve said here though is very different to your previous comment about them not understanding federation.
This reply is closer to the truth. They understand it quite fine, but have different priorities, and those priorities probably weren’t clear to a lot of their new members
It's the other way around: new people and instances are learning that federation also means that other servers don't want to federate with you, and that that's okay. This is different from the usual 'freeze peach' stuff, this is just communities saying 'we don't want to hear you'.
The short version is that beehaw was struggling with the (currently) limited toolset available to moderate user content, and they saw a heap of users posting things they don’t allow on their instance were coming from the two other big instances, so it was more effective for them to defederate to try and stem the tide.
I imagine regeneration will occur in future when the lemmyverse stabilises a little, and when better mod tools are available
outoftheloop
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This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.