Is there any christian religions that don't believe in space?

So I have a born again christian family member in their mid twenties who stated with complete confidence that there is a dome in the sky called the firmament and beyond it is where heaven is. She believes space doesn’t exist and rockets just blow up because the bible said so. She is not the brightest and normally I would let this sort of nonsense go but I work in aerospace and have multiple pieces of hardware in space so she is either calling me ignorant or a malicious agent for the devil purposely lying for her so I got pretty annoyed. I can’t find anything about this dome in a google search about religion and I suspect she ended up on a flat-earth YouTube channel that twisted a line in the bible to fit their beliefs and didn’t actually get it from her church. I know its probably hopeless to help her understand how dumb and frankly insulting this belief is but I can possibly talk some reason if I understand the source.

Are there any major or minor religions, christian or other that believe space is a lie and only god is outside our atmosphere?

hahattpro,

Where is space ? If you launch a spaceship, you will land on heaven.

wildcardology,

People like her keeps religions alive. Please ask her not to procreate.

BrazenSigilos,

But her religion specifically says to go forth and multiply! /s

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Rockets aren’t in the bibble what the fuck does it have to say about them. She’s thinking of rocks.

MycoBro,

Or genocide

Someology,
@Someology@lemmy.world avatar

You’re going to have to accept that she is stupid and insane. Don’t take it personally when the mentally ill person denies that your profession exists. She is delusional, and we must be patient with the crazies.

CaptFeather,

Oof. Even when I was a devout Christian I understood that space was a thing. Like ffs there’s even a video sermon of a pastor showing a picture of a stars forming a cross I saw making the rounds a decade ago. Most religious people would find that belief nutty lol

Ultraviolet,

Even by fundamentalist/Young Earth types, it’s considered pretty extreme, but yes, literal belief in the firmament is a thing.

Hamartiogonic, (edited )
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

What wasn’t reasoned into her head, can’t be reasoned out.

Sounds like there’s a good chance that you may need to apply a method I use when dealing people who believe in conspiracy theories. It’s largely a psychological thing, and it has very little to do with proof, evidence, logic, reasoning and science. No amount of evidence is ever going to solve a problem that is psychological in nature. Religious cults and conspiracy groups share some characteristics, so maybe this is applicable in her case too.

The idea is that people believe in crazy BS because that makes them a member of a group. That gives them an identity and makes them feel like they’re a privileged group for knowing some “hidden truth” about something. It also produces an “us against them” dynamic between the in-group and the out-group. Many individuals in these groups also have sub-clinical psychosis, narcissism or paranoia accompanied by anxiety and loneliness. This setup means that they find these BS nonsense groups appealing, and that the misguided beliefs become essentially bullet proof. Fighting against these beliefs will only make them stronger.

These people need therapy more than evidence.

Caboose12000,

I’m confused, can you describe the method you use directly? my only tool for dealing with people like this is ignoring them and cutting contact, it’d be nice to have some tools in case it happens to someone I actually like

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

These people might be in a vulnerable spot, so help and support are the types of things they really need. Be a human to another human. Provide social interaction, friendship and understanding.

Facts and debate will only push them further away from reality and deeper into a fantasy realm of their own. They find it appealing, but it won’t actually address their problems.

CmdrShepard,

So what’s your method? I don’t think you ever actually spelled it out in the comment unless you meant sending them to therapy, which isn’t a bad idea.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Forget all the evidence and facts. Provide psychological support instead.

Lightsong,

They’ll just consider psychological help as brainwash attempt and reject the help.

There’s no help for them. It’s sad really.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just be kind. Be a human. Ask them how their day went. Listen to their worries. You don’t have to be a psychologist or pull any complex therapy maneuvers. Leave that to the professionals. Just having a normal every day chitchat can be surprisingly helpful to someone who is living in a completely different version of reality.

Someology,
@Someology@lemmy.world avatar

Just talk about other every day things, and avoid the topic of delusion.

Doorbook,

Interesting, because it seems that lack of identity and hobbies is causing this. It is like when people become fan of product such as sport teams, a car manufacturer, an operating system so they can feel included.

The difference is, the low fee entry to believe systems, you don’t need to think or spend money, just listen or watch YouTube videos.

Maybe OP need to take these family members to join club or something else where they replace this passive lifestyle with a little bit active one.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

That’s true. The feeling of community plays an important part in many conspiracy theories. Humans are social animals, so social interaction is essential for wellbeing. If you’re lonely, you’ll naturally crave for a sense of community, and that’s exactly what many conspiracy theories will provide. Alternatively, you could build a kite and go to the nearest park and talk to all the other people flying their kites, but it’s a lot easier to watch conspiracy videos and join those forums.

On top of that, there’s a strong sense of in-group vs. out-group. That’s basically just a modern version of tribalism. It’s the usual “us against them” setup all over again.

I_Has_A_Hat,

A lot of “control” based conspiracy theories are born out of fear. The world is a chaotic, messy place and the idea that NO ONE is truly at the helm and we’re all just stumbling through the world is absolutely terrifying to some people. It’s far more comforting for them to believe there is some evil cabal or secret organization pulling the strings and that THEY’RE the reason bad things happen; rather than accepting that the world is complicated and most of us are barely removed from monkeys throwing poo at each other.

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

Absolutely. Fear and uncertainty are a huge part of many conspiracy theories. It’s actually quite human to be uncomfortable with uncertainty.

However, in the case of Conspiratorial Thinking (CT), that uncertainty just goes wild and the person in question will seek out unorthodox methods to cope with it. Even if the explanation is complete BS, it’s still more comforting than having no explanation at all. It’s comforting and appealing, but it does not solve the underlying problem, and that’s why people with CT have a hard time getting back to normal thinking.

The world is big, scary and full of complex interactions. If you can come up with a miserably flimsy excuse of an explanation that will at least calm you down, you’re absolutely going to hold on to it. Humans are pretty bad at tolerating uncertainty, and some people will feel absolutely devastated in the face of global economic turmoil and political unrest. Some people will go to great lengths to mitigate uncertainty, and resorting to CT isn’t even the most extreme example of this behavior.

CaptFeather,

the idea that NO ONE is truly at the helm and we’re all just stumbling through the world is absolutely terrifying to some people.

What’s hilarious to me is once I had this realization it was so relieving. I fucking hated the idea of me having to suck up to some asshole sky daddy just because I had the audacity to be born.

Bluetreefrog,

Look up biblical cosmology on Wikipedia.

JakeBacon,

I agree with others, this seems like a flat-earther belief that has gotten mixed with Christianity’s creation story.

I’ve heard of it before while browsing the internet, but not from any Christians I personally know. All the Christians I interact with (myself included) believe in a literal interpretation of the creation but nobe of us believe in a physical firmament. I will note that a single man I know denies the moon landing (for reasons I haven’t bothered to ask) but even he still believes in a spherical earth and heliocentric orbit.

My understanding of Genesis 1:6-8 is that the firmament mentioned is the earth’s sky or atmosphere itself, and not a physical barrier at the edge of the atmosphere. The easiest way to show this would be Genesis 1:20 where birds are described as “flying in the firmament of heaven”. If the firmament was a solid object, birds could not fly in it.

AngryCommieKender,

The moon landing was faked. NASA hired Kubrick and he insisted on shooting “on location” for “authenticity”

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

While you’re up there, mind bringing back some rocks for us?

CmdrShepard,

This is a classic conspiracy theory back from the days when you could have fun with them rather than hearing about “the global elite are drinking the blood of children in a pizza parlor basement” and having to actually defend against such nonsense.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but birds are government drones where else would they fly? The air? They’re heavier than that.

Elliott,

Space between church and state?

CmdrShepard,

The empty space between her ears.

MySwellMojo,

Look up the Christian philosophical concept, intelligent design

richieadler,

“Philosophical”.

It’s creationism, pure and simple.

MySwellMojo,

Never said I agreed with it. Just pointed him in the direction of some of the more progressive ideologies.

ID believes in science and evolution, but believes that it was part of “God’s” plan.

Creationists denounce those who believe in ID as atheists

I think we should push religion to be more progressive, and bring them closer to everyone else’s reality. If not, the world will only become more segmented

richieadler,

Creationists denounce those who believe in ID as atheists

Utterly false. ID is a “wedge strategy” to insert creationism in science teaching and law making.

I think we should push religion to be more progressive, and bring them closer to everyone else’s reality.

I think we should cut totally any influence of religion in education and politics. And then use education to help believers realize themselves that religion is nonsense and that they should drop it.

“Push religion” is leaving space to religions to be considered acceptable ideas. That space should be reduced to zero by exposing its absurdity.

mechoman444,

Yes flat earthers.

Everythingispenguins,

I work with one, we work for an airline…

Honestly he is a very nice guy you just have to be careful about which topics to talk with him about unless you want a very nice conversation about some very off the wall ideas

SkyeStarfall,

You’re more patient than me. I couldn’t help myself bit to constantly talk about airlines, how the fly, shortest routes, planes going over the Arctic Circle since it’s faster, etc…

Everythingispenguins,

He is truly a pretty good guy to work with. He is on time, works hard, and doesn’t cause drama. Compared to a lot of folks I work with he is a gem. Well all know he is wako but he doesn’t try to proselytize. So it is pretty chill honestly.

I think he had a hard life and this is how he copes. A lot of people cope in a lot worse ways then him

PrincessLeiasCat,

Like others have said, this is flat earther stuff. A lot of Christian evangelical types question things like the Big Bang and how old the universe/Earth really are, but afaik there isn’t an entire religion with this as a belief.

I used to work at a space museum and we would get Christian folks who would sometimes argue with us over the number that was on the sign telling them the age of our Moon rock, but never that the earth was flat. If that is a thing, it must be new.

OhmsLawn,

Questioning The Big Bang is somewhat ironic, as it was initially Georges Lemaître, a physicist and Catholic Priest who was the outlier.

PrincessLeiasCat,

That’s why I specifically said Evangelicals.

Here is just one example:

Deutsch gained notoriety in late 2005 and early 2006, when it was reported that he had instructed a NASA website designer to add the word “theory” after every occurrence of the phrase Big Bang.[1] In his memo to the website designer, Deutsch wrote that the Big Bang is “not proven fact; it is opinion… It is not NASA’s place, nor should it be to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator… This is more than a science issue, it is a religious issue.” The memo also noted that the AP Stylebook calls for the usage of the phrase “Big Bang theory”.[1]

Prior to the 2004 Bush/Cheney presidential campaign, Deutsch had been a student at Texas A&M University. His NASA résumé falsely asserted that he had a B.A. degree in journalism, but in February 2006 a blogger at The Scientific Activist discovered that he had never graduated.[2] This was subsequently confirmed by Texas A&M, and Deutsch resigned from NASA.[3] Deutsch later returned to Texas A&M and completed his degree that year.[4]

James E. Hansen, the director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and several other career NASA scientists and public affairs officials had been interviewed by The New York Times in January 2006. In these interviews, they complained about “intensifying efforts by political appointees in NASA, including Deutsch, to control more closely” the content of their public statements.[5] Deutsch, speaking to the New York Times, gave his opinion that Hansen had exaggerated the threat of global warming. He denied lying to NASA about his college degree.[5]

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t they just find things that suggest it’s 4 million years older? Heh.

PrincessLeiasCat,

Wouldn’t have mattered.

andrewta,

Does she have a priest /pastor? Maybe have a sit down with that person without your family member present and see what their thoughts are. If that priest /pastor understands that yes space exists have them talk to your relative.

Mubelotix,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

These are old beliefs from before the bible even existed. I’m pretty sure it was included in the bible though, but you know, even as a christian you can’t take everything that’s in the bible seriously

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