Is it okay to support Israel?

Hello I just created this Account for this Question. Is it okay to support Israel in the middle east conflict? I’m from Europe and have no ties at all to any Side. Its just that I lean more to the Side of Israel then any other. Is this okay? Is it up to debate which Side is to support or is one of them clearly in the Wrong? (Like Russia is in the Wrong attacking Ukraine or Germany attacking Polland 1939).

EDIT: For clarification: Im talking about their Settlements and their military campaigns NOT about their government.

If this Post is too political please remove and I’m deeply sorry for that.

HerbalGamer,

No.

TWeaK,

I mean, it’s up to you which side you support.

However, I don’t think this is like other conflicts you’re comparing it to, where there is pretty clearly one party doing something wrong and the other is the victim defending. Poland didn’t provoke Germany, and neither did Ukraine with Russia (although there is propaganda claiming otherwise). The Israel/Palestine conflict is one that has been going back and forth for the better part of a century, with each side ever retaliating for the other side’s previous attack. You can try to dig through it, but ultimately tallying up who did what and which side is worse will not lead to any useful resolution.

One way I’ve heard this event explained is this: you can only kick a dog so many times until it snaps. That doesn’t mean it’s ok when the dog snaps and bites a kid who didn’t kick it, but the dog biting is still a result of the dog being kicked. Israel has been doing a lot of kicking lately (openly killing a Palestinian journalist, raiding mosques on a holy day), now the dog has snapped back, next the dog will be beaten ever harder.

Let me ask you this: do you really support Israel (and if so why), or are you against Hamas/Palestine based on the horrific act you’ve witnessed?

corsicanguppy,

Their soldiers shot MSF doctors with impunity. They deserve no support.

While neither of today’s combatants deserve support, your question was only about the one group.

Barley_Man,

When it comes to Israel vs Palestine then I absolutely think it’s alright to support either side. Both sides have valid reasons to exist and both sides have done horrible things to each other. But remember this is not Israel vs the Palestinian authority (the west bank). This is Israel vs Hamas (Gaza). That makes a world of a difference. In this conflict I believe Hamas is in the wrong.

Many people accuse Israel to be an apartheid state. I would argue Israeli arabs have it much better than blacks in south Africa did (polling even shows arab-isrealis (the ones who ended up in isreals side of the border in 1948) prefer living in Israel instead of Palestine because of their quality of life) however they are certainly not equal to the Jewish isrealies. But now ask yourself. How would a Jew be treated in Gaza? There are none and there is a reason for that. They would get killed on the street immediately. If isreal is an apartheid state then Gaza is a puristic ehnostate. Both are racist but Gaza is infinitely worse. They don’t want to coexist with Jews at all, no they want them all dead.

Hamas is one of the worst organisations on earth. They don’t even care for their own people. When western nations give Gaza free fertilizer to feed their people and reduce starvation then Hamas used it to build bombs to fire at Israel. When western charities gave Gaza money to feed their people, they bought guns instead. This is a regime ruled by nothing else than hate and does not even have a concern for their own people. Isreal supplies Gaza with water and electricity and has done so for decades. Gaza would never do something like that for isreal. I believe there is no case for Hamas at all. They are in the wrong here quite definitely. Just look who they are attacking. First target was a music festival by the border where they raped, kidnapped and murdered all the participants. This music festival was a music festival for peace. That’s why it was right by the border fence. Hamas didn’t believe in peace.

StupidQuestionGuy,

Okay so there is a difference between Hamas and Palestine? ( The more i read in this thread, the more i realize i’m stupid and uniformed q_q ).

I don’t want to accuse you but can you provide sources for your claims about fertilizer, money and the music festival?

TheBananaKing,

Israel has been a huge crybully virtually since it was founded. It’s been annexing Palestinian land from the beginning, running a shitty apartheid state, committing ongoing slow genocide on the Palestinian people, then crying the innocent victim whenever they hit back - and guzzling unlimited billions in US military aid to do so.

Hurt people hurt people, and oppression breeds radicalism. Hamas are not nice people, but they’re from a place where nice people don’t live long enough to matter. As with any abusive relationship, there’s going to be toxic coping mechanisms as a result, and it’s important to acknowledge that it’s not okay to do those things.

But Israel (the country, not the people) sure as hell rakes in a lot of money and influence from being constantly under threat from the mean nasty baddies that they just have to keep oppressing and killing and oh look more money.

Hamas is awful. But still and all, fuck Israel.

MataVatnik,

This is the correct answer. Israel could end this tomorrow if they choose to, so it’s their prerogative to do it. But their supremacist and racist ideology with their expansionist goals they will never do what needs to be done, and while I get saying that the people are the victims here, there is a lot of support for the state of Israel coming not just from its citizens but from all Jewish communities around the word. If these people don’t take responsibility, reform their toxic, hateful, and extremist ideology, and don’t do what needs to be done to solve this problem, then I have a hard time drumming up sympathy. A lot of Israelites are western immigrants with money, they can leave whenever they want, people in Palestine are essentially in an open air prison where it’s really difficult to enter or leave.

atrielienz,

Israel wouldn’t have the means to do the massive amounts of damage it has done without help. Specifically help from the US. Who I blame for a good portion of the atrocities committed. It’s our weaponry being used in quite a lot of cases. And the death toll from that weaponry is significantly high. This is why I don’t want my government trying to “help”. And every single time I say that we should stay out of it people accuse me of somehow being for Israel or for the status quo. But in the long run, US war profiteering only helps people who commit atrocities.

CrypticFawn,
@CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Fuck Hamas as well. 😉

leraje,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I support the rights of the Palestinian and Israeli people who just want to live in peace to do that. I do not support Hamas or the Israeli Army committing atrocity after atrocity at the behest of their political leaders.

rufus, (edited )

Support the people and humanitarian causes. Not one of the nations.

Paragone,

The ONLY way that peace could have been earned, in the West Bank, is…

  • an independent ( UN ) government, that wouldn’t tolerate EITHER side’s abuse, and systematically silenced bullying from the place
  • ALL necessary & sufficient infrastructure, healthcare, etc, in-place, AND NEUTRAL ( no Hamas, no Israel, NO politics in it: ONLY neutral facilitation-of-healthy-civil-process )
  • keep this silencing-of-any-bullying for 2-4 generations, until the enmity-addicted people were all out-from-power
  • THEN form a sane local-of-the-people government, gradually ceding from 1 to the other, celebrating the victory-against-prejudice ( on both sides ).

Neither side would tolerate/allow that.

TTBOMK, Israel has maintained about 100 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli Jew, for many years, there is some sites on the 'web that have numbers for that, btw.

There is ZERO hope for any peace there, thanks to enmity being the addiction of sooo many, on both sides, who have authority, and therefore who use their authority to multiply enmity’s reach throughout the cultures.

A “church of hatred & evil” that situation has become.

Heartbreaking waste of God-given LivingPotential & LivingOpportunity, from both populations…

: \

Frog-Brawler,
@Frog-Brawler@kbin.social avatar

They are both wrong and they are both right. Up until this past week, I tended to be more sympathetic towards Palestine. Unfortunately, the most recent terrorist attack by Hamas was against more than just Israel or its military. It was a terrorist attack at a music festival, and Hamas attacked citizens of multiple nations.

It’s a lot easier to support Israel right now. It sounds like they’re about to commit their own atrocities though, so you might have to flip your position tomorrow.

Kyrgizion,

Both sides suck. Any more elaboration is likely to piss off a lot of people, so let’s keep it simple.

madcaesar,

Both suck for different reasons.

But also both are doing damage on different scales…

The whole thing sucks.

AstridWipenaugh,

Israel responded by blowing up mosques and apartment buildings. They cut off power to everything, including hospitals. They’re blockading to prevent any supplies from entering Gaza. Both sides are committing war crimes and intentionally targeting civilians. Nobody is right here. Supporting either side is encouraging a religious war.

GBU_28,

The problem is hamas hides amongst the population, knowing that if Israel hits them, civilians will die too, further fanning the flames.

Those dead civilians obviously radicalize survivors, adding to the ranks. The uninvolved civilians have no power to remove hamas from their space, so their fate is coupled.

This is no comment on the demolitions or other general brutality Israel has been up to, just a discussion on how hamas operates

Azzu, (edited )

That’s mostly because of logistics, they have much less resources, Israel is supported majorly by the US, Israel has stuff like the Iron Dome. If Palestine/Hamas would set up any dedicated posts, they’d simply be bombed to oblivion, and that would be that. If they want to fight, being covert about it is their literal only choice.

Still shitty of course, but I’m pretty sure they don’t want to do it if there were any better alternatives to keep the fight up.

Neon,

The other Problem is that Israel is using Civilians as Settlers to establish a Claim in illegally occupied territories (determined so by the UN, not me)

just to be very clear: fuck Hamas and all the shit they did, and i hope that they pay very very heavily for all the atrocities they’ve committed. But i just wanted to show you, that noone in the Region really takes international law seriously

HaggierRapscallier,

Problem is Hamas is Israel’s own creation. They funnelled them money.

lath,

Here’s the thing, at the core of it, neither the people living in the israelian part nor the ones living in the palestinian one are really at fault here. The general public in general has no time for petty politics, being to busy to make a life. What you really want to blame are the agitators, the people who make it their life to create issues where there are none.

The majority of the population on both sides just want to live their own life in peace and they are not allowed to. So if you want to side wkth someone, side with them.

Blame the politicians who promote discord and occupation, blame the guerillas who attack innocent civilians, blame the religious proponents who spread hatred and bile. And plead with the general public to stop being such a bunch of pussies and actually put a stop to all the warmongering for everyone’s sake. Which is something we should all do, everywhere. But we won’t because we’re all pussies as well.

UtMan1988,

We’re not pussies; we’re poor.

lath,

By the way we trash talk on the internet, i’d say we’re pretty rich… in spirit.

darcy,
@darcy@sh.itjust.works avatar

its like supporting russia, but more mainstream

MataVatnik,

I would recommend reading history if you’re thinking about supporting one side vs another. I personally think Israel has the ability to end this tomorrow if they choose, but I don’t support the violence coming from Hamas.

alokir,

It’s also ok to support neither or to say it’s too complicated to pick a side.

jacktherippah, (edited )

This conflict is so ridiculously complicated.

Aceticon, (edited )

Being for a very large group of people is illogical because (with the noteable exception of groups whose membership is defined solely by the actual actions of the members, i.e. " people who have commited gruesome murders") the group doesn’t need to have that many people for there to be an absolute certainty that at last one of its members are complete total shits, by which point a reductionist “supporting a group” ends up in part being “supporting some people who are complete total shits” and if you have any principles you don’t really lead your support in such a vague and open-ended way that you’re supporting such people.

The only reasons for a person to be for a group of people such as a nation are emotional, either tribalism or emotional reacting to things you hear about “them” or done to “them” (and not having the intellectual filters to read said “them” as reductionist bollocks), which is why Propaganda works so well in this domain.

By the way, this logic also applies to being against a group, which is the core of a lot of “-isms” such as racism (again, from some complete total shits there is a generalization to all members of a group not defined by their actions), making the person against the group be de facto against some very good people.

Being against doing bad shit, without the reductionism, obfuscation and and dehumanization of looking it as “sides” rather than people, is probably the only logical thing to do as there you have a path from morably reprehensible actions to the people who did them without diffusing to meaninglessness the actual judgments about “specific people who chose to do or not do certain things”.

PS: By the way, this is also why I dislike news about “Company X/Government Y did bad thing” - the company or government are not self-aware entities with agency, it’s people in positions of power there making the choices and I think we would have a much better world if the Press did its job and named names rather than willfully going along with the diffusing and obfuscating of responsability.

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