Why is everyone so giddy about the flooding thay happened at burning man?

Social media seems to be laughing its ass off about this tragedy, is it because the folks at burning man are perceived as frivolous hippies or something? Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure. I guess all some people know is the sensationalized drugs and sex. A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.

sederx,

i dont care what happens to rich people

pulaskiwasright,

Most of them aren’t rich. They’re middle class. The only reason you think most of them are rich is because of how a lot of the middle class has fallen into poverty. Don’t tear down the people that are still truly middle class.

The truly wealthy are a problem, but they’re a minority at burning man.

Cryophilia,

It’s all relative. If the poor have gotten poorer, then the “almost rich”, just by virtue of hanging on to their wealth, have edged up into “rich” territory

pulaskiwasright,

Sure, if you want the extremely rich people who actually made you poor to write your narrative for them. Save your anger for the people who actually suppress wages and equity. Not people who just managed to carve out a middle class life by doing some job. Middle class people and poor people are much much closer in wealth to each other than middle class and the truly wealthy who rule this country.

Cryophilia,

I have plenty of anger to go around, there’s no danger of it running out.

pulaskiwasright,

Why not be angry at other poor people too then? They deserve it as much as the middle class.

Cryophilia,

No, they don’t.

pulaskiwasright,

They do though. Neither one of them deserves your anger. Be angry at the people who actually set up the system that makes you poor. Not the middle class who has as much to blame as the poor.

Cryophilia,

The middle class didn’t set up the system, but they love benefiting from it.

But even then, my main gripe with the middle class is their insistence that they’re blameless and they like to pretend they’re on the same side as the poor when they’re constantly supporting policies to keep the poor poorer.

pulaskiwasright,

Yes, the middle class benefits some form the current system. We want a system that benefits all. That doesn’t mean breaking the system for the people who live a comfortable life. It means making the system support a comfortable life for all.

And blaming them as a block is really stupid anyway because they don’t all vote lock step. These divisions along non-ideological divides are a silly distraction meant to keep people fighting people who are actually on the same side.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

You’re right, and this idiot is falling for the rich people’s bullshit 100%.

Cryophilia,

These divisions along non-ideological divides are a silly distraction meant to keep people fighting people who are actually on the same side.

Fuck you and your million dollar mortgage and your 2nd car. We are not on the same side. We just have a common enemy.

pulaskiwasright,

You’re acting as a pawn for the wealthy ruling class when you think like that.

cubedsteaks,

call me a skeptic but I doubt there is someone here with a million dollar mortgage and multiple cars that’s just sitting around, reading lemmy.

Like what, they’re reading a thread on lemmy on the way to a business meeting in their private car?

Like who are you really yelling at.

Cryophilia,

That’s the “I’m totally middle class” bullshit that keeps popping up here. The average home price in a lot of cities is inching closer to $1M.

And yes, they’re on lemmy. Especially the tech workers, who probably do the least amount of work per dollar in human history.

cubedsteaks,

But I work in tech and I rent and don’t even own a car.

Cryophilia,

Git gud

cubedsteaks,

this is 4chan speak.

Apollo,

How do you change a system set up to benefit a class that is completely entrenched around the levers of power, without tearing down the whole rotten structure?

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

What a useless bullshit excuse to be hateful and averse to any actual solution whatsoever

Cryophilia,

Never said I was averse to solutions. I can be hateful and also want to fix the problems.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

Yeah the real way to fix capitalism is to hate people with 20% more money than you. Great plan.

Cryophilia,

Now you’re getting it

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

You’re getting nothing though. Scream at the clouds (except in your case they’re not even rain clouds, they’re actually just people barely better off than you but you’re just too fucking stupid to understand it) if you like, you’re actually helping the rich people keep their advantage

Cryophilia,

And how is that exactly?

cubedsteaks,

I mean, so far we’ve hated the rich for quite some time now and its not really done much.

Apollo,

I mean the middle class are pretty adverse to the solution as well…

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

Oh what a cool and hip communist everyone. Look so edgy

Apollo,

How else do you propose to fix a system set up to benefit a certain class, a class which has firmly entrenched itself around the levers of power, without tearing down the whole rotten structure and starting again.

Don’t pretend that you are for the current system for any other reasons than “I’ve got mine, Jack”.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

I’m not 14 anymore so I won’t entertain such nonsense wastes of time

Apollo,

Seems like you wasted time telling me you weren’t going to waste time. I guess if that’s the level you are operating at I shouldn’t be suprised that you’re content.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

I am not “content” I’m just not a fucking highschooler willing to rehash the same stupid bullshit arguments over and over. Yes, good point about wasting time, further replies will be ignored and you’ll be blocked.

PS no one gives a fuck that you’re a communist.

Apollo,

Man you really didnt waste any more time on this did you?

cubedsteaks,

How else do you propose to fix a system set up to benefit a certain class, a class which has firmly entrenched itself around the levers of power, without tearing down the whole rotten structure and starting again.

Not them but my idea for changing things includes socially engineering different ideas until they corrupt those in power. That’s the only way we can really get to the 1%.

cubedsteaks,

wow imagine needing to take sides…

wokehobbit,

Might want to seek professional help for that bud.

Cryophilia,

It’s a rational response to an unjust world, but more importantly I couldn’t afford professional help in any case. Which is, again, the point.

wokehobbit,

Rational… yup. No you are just a sad little child that can’t grow up

sederx,

how is it irrational to get angry at worlds injustices?

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

You’re directing your anger at the wrong people. Pretty fucking irrational to me

Wooly,

If you’re spending upwards of $1000 on a few days you’re probably rich.

pulaskiwasright,

It means you’re not poor if you can afford to go on a vacation that costs a few thousand dollars. That’s middle class. People have normalized lowering the standard of living associates with middle class, but being able to spend a few thousand dollars on a vacation is where the middle class should be and used to be.

Wooly,

I’m sure some middle class people can afford to go to burning man. But you’re being wilfully ignorant if you think burning man isn’t catered to the rich. It’s almost purely a status symbol event. It’s definitely where people go to show off their lavish wealth and take pictures for Instagram. I’m pretty sure if they took a survey 80%+ would be wealthy people.

I’m middle class, and I’m spending a couple hundred dollars on my holiday this week, I almost can’t fathom spending thousands living in a tent in a desert.

But you’re right, the middle class has been eroded. What was considered middle class in 1970 would be rich today. That’s just because most people are worse off financially.

wokehobbit,

Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea what they’re talking about.

DarthBueller, (edited )

Okay, how about this. My anarchist punk middle aged friend who used to go to Burning Man every year stopped going because it was becoming a wealthy shit-show. Not even the orgy dome was enough of a draw to make it worth going.EDIT: I’m not hating on burners, just noting that he observed a change.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

Or it’s very important to you and you saved all year. What a weird assumption

wokehobbit,

Ever heard of budgeting? Saving? Yeah, that’s what people do when they want to take a vacation. Anybody with half a brain can do it. Just takes discipline. Something you clearly don’t have.

Apollo,

If you can afford to set aside such a sum you are part of a group that, going by worldwide averages, is among the richest in the world.

cubedsteaks,

or you could be dumb like me and go into debt to take a trip

barfplanet,

What the hell. That classifies almost anyone who goes on vacation as rich.

Apollo,

Like a 3rd of the world live in near starvation, objectively if you can afford a vacation you are in the richest 25% in the world.

dustyData,

Have you considered that the majority of people can’t afford to go on vacations? Heck, in the US most people aren’t even entitled to vacations by law. If they want to rest they have to stop working altogether and pray they are accepted back at their workplace when they return and to not have any emergency and their meager savings last for the entire short break from the grind.

Really, some people have no notion of privilege.

_g_be,

Well, how do you define middle class? Is there a certain income bracket that needs to be met? Or is it the middle slice of 3 equally sliced segments of the US population?

shapis, (edited )
@shapis@lemmy.ml avatar

The way I always thought about it is if you have to do work for a living you are not rich.

cubedsteaks,

What about those of us who are one step below that?

I’m not salary yet but they’re talking about promotion where I would be required as salary which means -less work but I get paid the same and if there is suddenly more work, no over time.

But it pays more over all. And would even put me in a different tax bracket. I’m not there yet. So am I like, teetering on the edge of rich?

What about the cost of living? My rent keeps going up. I can’t be rich if my rent is taking most of my paycheck can I?

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

Your blatant classism and lack of normal empathy aside, can you provide evidence that most people at burning man are “rich”?

assassin_aragorn,

Because it’s a festival in the middle of the desert that’s celebrating being in the middle of the fucking desert.

In high school I remember some of us were actually very taken with the concept, including myself. But as time progressed, it became obvious that it wasn’t about connecting with nature and self reliance.

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

Yeah if you can afford $400 tickets, camping supplies, and transportation you’re absolutely a part of the 1% /s

All that you’re doing here is contributing to infighting within your own class, which is what actual rich people want – for you to focus your attention anywhere but on them. Hate the 1% if you want but more importantly demand they be treated like the rest of us.

regalia,

Hate the 1% if you want but more importantly demand they be treated like the rest of us.

Like let them live with constant financial stress?

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

No like paying taxes. Like going to jail when they break the law. Like levying income-based fines.

regalia,

Like being gunned down if you’re a person of color

SnowdenHeroOfOurTime,

what are you trying to do here? get to the point or go away

regalia,

lol what, fuck off

Kecessa,

A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.

They could take all the money it costs them and bring a whole lot more positivity into the world but instead choose sex drugs and rock’n’roll in the middle of the desert. If you want to see tragedies these people could prevent just go spend some time in the poorest parts of the city you live in.

propaganja,

By your logic, if you’re a good person but you spend your disposable income on a form of recreation that inefficiently brings positivity to the world, you deserve to be ridiculed and your suffering is justly celebrated.

Kecessa,

So you truly believe that all the resources they’re wasting vs the fun they have as a group is a net positive to the world? I hope this year’s fuck up is enough to shut down the event for the foreseeable future and I won’t shed a single tear or have any pity for any of them that gets hurt because of their ridiculous recreation.

Rhynoplaz,

Do you know how much money is wasted on the Super Bowl? If there was an earthquake at the Super Bowl and it killed someone would you be there saying “Shouldn’t have wasted that money, serves you right!”

Kecessa,

Is the Superbowl happening in the middle of the desert in already muddy conditions even though people were warned it’s not a good idea to go? Sorry I don’t follow football.

Rhynoplaz,

You better go find out so you know if they deserve to die or not.

My point is, it doesn’t matter how much you know about a subject. It’s somebody’s life. Somebody lost a loved one that day, and it was a tragedy regardless of how much smarter you are than them.

Kecessa,

Do you know how many people in the world die because of the North American lavish lifestyle? A whole fucking lot.

Rhynoplaz,

That’s strangely irrelevant to the conversation, but thanks for the fun fact, I guess.

Kecessa,

Just pointing out that their death is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things especially as these are people that don’t care about the impact of their lifestyle on the life expectancy of people in poor countries (the people make all their stuff they’re addicted to).

Anyway, they put themselves in that shit and pretend it’s about extreme survival (in a 200k$ offroad camper), so tough luck. It’s no more dramatic than the death of a westerner that decided to spend a fortune to go climb the Everest.

Rhynoplaz,

Would a resort in the Virgin Islands be more respectable? Sorry their vacation doesn’t look like yours.

Kecessa,

Just pointing out that saying they bring positivity in the world is a load of BS as the resource wasted alone means their overall impact is negative to the world.

Rhynoplaz,

Are you bringing enough positivity to the world to deserve to be mourned of you were to die in a tragic accident? I would like to know where the line is, whose deaths are worth enough and is it only determined by what they do for fun, or does bringing positivity add to your score?

Kecessa, (edited )

We’re talking about a specific event and it’s impact, talking about it bringing positivity to the world wasn’t my choice, I’m just pointing out that no it’s not something positive if you think about more than just the event itself.

SocialMediaRefugee,

Reminds me of the hippy drum circle episode of south park where they all get stoned and listen to jam bands and declare they are changing the world.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I got shit for this in another thread, but I will stand by it- you do not go into the desert without checking the weather report, and if it says rain, light rain, heavy rain, sprinkles, doesn’t matter, you do not go into the desert. These people did not do the most basic bit of safety you could do.

mysoulishome,
@mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

Ok and people rebuild their homes in flood zones, it’s not the criticism that bothers me but when people take joy in it. The posts I’ve seen are just cheap.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I agree, I don’t take joy in it. I just don’t have much sympathy for them.

mysoulishome,
@mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

If you thoroughly understand the situation and feel that way I respect it.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been out in the desert on more than one film/TV shoot in my life and we were always really diligent to make sure we were going out there when there was absolutely no risk of rain, because you could be in a wash or a dry lake bed and never even know it.

And I’m pretty sure Burning Man is in a dry lake bed.

It’s such highly irresponsible behavior that, like I said, my sympathy is minimal. Also, pretty much everyone is fine. It’s just very unpleasant for them. Someone did die, but they didn’t say why they died. It could very easily have just been ODing considering it’s Burning Man.

meco03211,

Rebuilding a home in a flood zone is a little different. That’s a permanent situation people decide not to change for infrequent floods. Some people might not have the means to uproot their lives to get out of a flood zone. This current situation is a temporary choice for fun. If you do something that involves being outside, understanding the weather is necessary.

By the same token, would you criticize the organizers for holding the festival in a place that can flood, even if in years past it didn’t?

Treczoks,

I'm just surprised at the sheer stupidity of those people. There have been pictures on the net, showing the festival area completely submerged just a few days before the start. Yet, they still moved there.

At that point, when they noticed that the mud was knee deep, they could have left. They decided to stay.

Now there is an emergency involving 70k idiots who put themselves wilfully in a dangerous place without thinking.

pbbananaman,

People are children and repeat what they hear. 15 years ago, I would spout the same nonsense about burning man because of what I read on digg/Reddit from the same voices you hear now. I then met a friend who convinced me to go and I had an absolute blast.

For the vast majority of people in the US, let alone the world, attending the event is almost impossible due to cost, time, materials, etc. - it’s much easier for people that live nearby and most people within driving distance, the views of burning man will be more in line with your views - nuanced and reasonable. If you have no experience and no contact with the regular folks who attend, it’s super easy to bucket people into all these groups.

The reasoning about waste and frivolity is total bullshit — don’t tel me your bullshit vacation to Murtle Beach is anymore eco friendly. Or your plane ride to Bangkok to become more worldly is “green”. Burning man is an event, a vacation. I went many times as a student, spending only about $2000 all in. It’s a relatively economical way to have a blast for a week.

dublet,

It’s basically this IMO

Why should they be happy meme

Sunforged,

People are free to do what they want. It’s this self assured BS they use to justify doing drugs in the desert that the majority of the criticism comes from.

Had a close friend who became a burner. She compared her fund raising for a party to my wife’s political organizing. I can’t even wrap my head around how self delusional it is.

pbbananaman,

Yes, idiots exist in all contexts. If you gather enough people in one spot, a nice, countable handful will be dumb.

RememberTheApollo_,

Well that’s the thing though isn’t it? Nobody’s saying their Bangkok or Myrtle Beach vacay is eco anything, nor are they vaunting some ethos, sustainability, life altering experimental way to live, Drugs, costumes, art, sex, whatever…an unattainable experience for the vast majority people.

You might see a selfie in Myrtle beach with a drink or a pic in front of Wat Pho.

If you’re gonna engage in appeals to hypocrisy, maybe you should try to find actual hypocrisy.

pbbananaman,

See, though, this is the ignorance that stems from not knowing real life burners. The vast majority (actually none) that I know do not claim anything eco about the event. These people understand what the event is. Don’t lump every one of the 100s of thousands of those who have attended over the years with the handful of social media starlets posting bullshit online. I promise many many people at burning man hate those who post anything about the event on social media.

RememberTheApollo_,

Huh, so you’re saying we should ignore the people who were there and said what happens in favor of your criticism of people going to Myrtle Beach?

ChrisLicht,

You’re not traveling in the wrong circles. Come to a VC fund dinner in September where junior VCs and 28-year-old “mortgage disrupter” CEOs brag about the air-conditioned plug-and-play camps they spent tens of thousands on, and play wink-wink with each other about all of the fun they had.

I’m a multiple-time BM vet, but it’s mostly an expensive, bureaucratized drug party for tourists now.

It’s perfectly fine to goof on it as it sinks into a physical and moral quagmire. Forgive a poorly scaled analogy, but your logic is the NRA’s logic when there’s a mass shooting: “Now, when everyone’s attention is focused, is not the time to highlight the underlying issues.”

scarabic,

No one hates the luxury plug-n-play campers more than other burners. And the org has even taken steps to crack down on them.

But the only thing older than non-burners hating on burners is burners saying “it was cooler back in the times when I went. It sucks now.”

What years were you there?

UnderwaterSwift,

What does plug and play mean, that it’s an easy setup? Like a premade camper vs something built by hand for the festival?

scarabic,

You’re not allowed to vend anything at Burning Man. No commercial transactions permitted.

However, there are “adventure travel” companies that will take thousands of dollars of your money, weeks before the event, and then take you there and keep you in luxury the whole time. There are people who set up tents and prepare food and do all the cleaning for you, etc.

This has never been a significant proportion of the people attending. Not even 1%. If nothing else, it’s just too expensive for most people. So if you hear people shitting on this practice, just know that it isn’t broadly representative, and every single other burner out there who is pulling their own weight also hates these camps.

They’re strictly against the values of the community. Self reliance and decommodification are declared expectations. And while there have always been moochers and lameasses to be found, having companies make a business out of this was beyond the pale. The org began taking steps to ensure that these operations don’t get tickets and don’t get into the gate.

UnderwaterSwift,

Ah thanks, that makes sense.

schmorpel,

Self reliance in the desert, by bringing in all you need for your totally natural camping experience.

scarabic,

Yes you bring what you need. How do you think camping is supposed to work?

diocan,

You perception is fabricated and managed by social media, get off that and you’ll be happier

XeroxCool,

And the loudest participants outside the burn are tech bros and influencers.

SCB,

This but all the people shitting on burning man

kmkz_ninja,

He says unironically.

Piye,

The only people who go to that dumb crap in the first place are wealthy whites, the poor and working class don’t have all the money and time in the world to spend $1000’s of dollars on hard drugs and time off work and traveling half way across the country to attend some “hippy” festival that hasn’t actually had hippies at it since the 12th Century BC

kmkz_ninja,

That’s why I’m happy when people aren’t able to make it to Cons and Ren Fairs. Bunch of losers with more money than me spending on things I don’t care about.

How dare they. I hope anyone who spends money to have fun has a bad time instead.

_stranger_,

In defense of Ren fairs, the best part of them is the camping, and that’s as cheap as you want it to be.

OceanSoap,

There are certainly weathly people who go, but there are also poor people who work multiple jobs and save up for a year to go as well.

Kecessa,

Holy crap, I just checked the actual numbers and their mortality rate is lower than the average in the population, they’re doing fine

www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db456.htm#:~….

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

So as long as Event Organisers stay below the average mortality rate, they hold no liability? They are doing fine?

Kecessa,

OP: One person died! It’s a tragedy!

Turns out that’s a better mortality rate than outside the event, not much of a tragedy, more of them would have died if they hadn’t went to the event!

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a much higher mortality rate than the average event. More people died at this event then most events.

Kecessa,

One event with 70k in attendance lasting a whole week with the same people in attendance all week and they can’t leave. There aren’t many events that can be compared to it and the fact that it takes place during an event doesn’t matter for this comparison as we’re trying to see how many of these people would have died if the event hadn’t taken place at all.

Heck it could be considered good for the organizers, they should have had many deaths by that point considering the average mortality rate of the people present, they only had one!

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

the fact that it takes place during an event doesn’t matter for this comparison as we’re trying to see how many of these people would have died if the event hadn’t taken place at all.

Then you must be ignoring information to show the truth that you want the data to show. Events need to abide by strict OH&S guidelines. If an injury or death occurs due to the negligence of the event planners, they need to be held accountable. This means that a death at an event should be compared to other events because day-to-day life isn’t governed by OH&S.

Kecessa,

sh.itjust.works/comment/2962187

The truth that I want? It’s the simple statistical truth, I’m not doing any interpretation! The fact that it takes place during an event doesn’t change the fact that the death rate of the population there is lower than it is in the general population so statistically speaking if these people didn’t go more than one would have died just living there everyday lives instead of partying in the desert.

Want me to do interpretation? You’re putting 70k persons in the middle of the desert in the US with tons of drugs, OSHA or not, death at burning man happens and it’s too be expected and considering the number of people in the place, the length of the event, what people do there and the country it’s taking place in, it’s surprising there isn’t more every year.

This year’s is not the first and unless the event stops, it’s not the last

salon.com/…/deaths-sexual-assault-and-art-controv…

edm.com/news/burning-man-2022-arrests-death

journal.burningman.org/…/we-lost-spoono-today/

No cause of death has been released for this year’s deceased, it might as well be a suicide, what could OSHA do about that exactly?

Heck, it’s written on the fucking tickets that death rarely happen (implying they do) but injuries often do!

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

LOL you’re really running with this line of thinking. Might people who plan to go to a week-long strenuous event in the desert lead to a sample that has some selection bias? For instance, selecting out the entirety of the demographic that is currently hospitalized, currently debilitatingly ill?

In which cause you should compare mortality rates with another group like that. Not the entire rest of the age demographic (which has all those sick people you selected out).

I don’t really care either way, just found this argument kind of hilarious.

Kecessa,

You’ve got people of all ages there and the average death per year at burning man seems to be pretty close to one, some years even had three, some years had multiple suicides, some years had people die outside the premise from things that happened at the event…

Again, nothing unusual about one person dying out of a crowd 70k during a week. You can be in the best shape of your life and die of aneurysm!

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

Do you have any hospitalized people there? Because the USA has 919,649 hospital beds. Anyone needing assisted living? Because the US has 810,000 people in assisted living. Now the 70,000 number doesn’t seem so big eh?

My point is that ‘people capable of going to an event’ is already a helluva selection, especially when you compare it to the population that includes all those sick people.

Kecessa,

Just suicides and unintentional injuries are enough to make it pretty close to 1/week/70k.

Again, I provided sources in another comment, you’re just ignoring the stats and the history of the event because it doesn’t fit with what you want the event to be 🤷

Heck, we don’t even know this year’s cause of death, might as well be a suicide or an overdose and have nothing to do with the weather!

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

Haha I don’t care so much about burning man as much as this method you have.

So by your math, Somewhere like disney with 50k visitors a day is still remarkably safe as long as less than 10 people a day die there?

Kecessa,

I used to work in a casino where we would get 6k visitors a day on average and we had two to three deaths a year. Just because most clients don’t realize it happens doesn’t mean it doesn’t. Same for Disney, some people die on the premise, some people die when they’ve reached the hospital, but yes, when you have that many people coming every day that shit does happen. Considering its size, Disney has medical staff on the premise (heck, we had medical staff for the 1500 employees and our clients) and they might even have their own ambulance service so as to not have to wait to ship people to the hospital.

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

I like how you chose casino, establishments known to especially attract the 85+ cohort, which I didn’t even include in my 10 a day disney # to be nice. How many 85+ you think they got at burning man?

Do you think 10 people a day die at a single disney park behind the scenes? You’re dying on this hill?

Kecessa, (edited )

Fucking hell mate, I posted the stats for 2019 and 2021, go check them, even people 35-44 are at 200 death/100k/year, 130 deaths for those 25-34, 70 deaths for those 15-24, do you think they’re all bedridden or something?

Are your feelings the hill you are willing to die on or you’re able to accept that CDC’s stats might be closer to the truth than what you feel is right?

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

fucking hell mate, do you think selection bias is a fictional concept inapplicable to your calculations or are you going to continue to pretend that taking an entire countries population and comparing it to any sliver of the country 1:1 doesn’t fail basic representativeness analysis?

Kecessa,

Do you think not all kinds of people go to Disney? Why do you think I gave the numbers for people under 44 except to eliminate most people who die from diseases?

WheeGeetheCat, (edited )
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

If I add in the 85+ to the disney calculations it only makes your case worse (drives the # higher). I left it out to be nice.

Would you seriously take your family to disney as long as less than 10 people a day died there? Like get your head out of the #s for a second think with your common sense.

Lets do another really simple one. Imagine a playground near you serving kids 5-14. Are you taking your kids as long as less than 13 kids died there last year? Or are you maybe thinking its unsafe after 1 death? WHY?

You seriously are not understanding the importance of comparing representative groups and this ‘compare any slice of the country to the entire country 1:1’ method is ludicrous, nothing to do with burning man

edit: hmm the park example is complicated by the fact we don’t know how many citizens the park servers. Im finding numbers ranging all over, from 2k to 10k to much higher in cities. For this example we can use a city park with 10k annual visitors, so we would expect 1-2 deaths a year at this park and not bat an eye yes? Either way I think you get my point. Good luck

Kecessa,

You’re the only one talking about if I would go or not, what I’m talking about since the beginning is that considering the number of people present and publically available stats, it’s clear that there’s nothing unusual about deaths happening during these events and OP calling it a tragedy is exaggerated. I’m sure they didn’t even know that deaths happen most years at Burning Man and they only realised it happened this year because attention was brought to the event because of the weather. Same for Disney, same for any place where there’s thousands of people coming and going every day.

Shit happens, there’s statistically less shit happening there than elsewhere, get over it.

cubedsteaks,

so you don’t think its a tragedy when someone dies?

Kecessa,

Tens of thousands dying of starvation? That’s a tragedy.

Kids being shot in school? That’s a tragedy.

A dude that went to an event in the middle of the desert where people die pretty much every year? Unless they got killed by someone else then fuck no that’s not a tragedy.

I’ve got bad news about global mortality and human’s inability to live forever if you think every death is a tragedy.

cubedsteaks,

Are you just using the definition of tragedy here? We can’t have any nuance about this?

Kecessa,

I can call out someone for acting like the death of one guy who decided to go party in the desert is anything but a sob story to generate clicks.

There:

worldpopulationreview.com/…/deaths-per-day

This year they only had one death at Burning Man? Well there’s close to 2 death a second on a global scale. Tell me again how tragic that death was and how tragic them being stuck in mud was. Heck, I’ve seen reports of up to five deaths in a single year at BM, did you care about it? Nah you didn’t.

cubedsteaks,

look, I saw a post on another site where someone was making fun of these people and making fun of the person who died. That’s just edgelord shit in my book.

If you want to get all technical about a word, whatever, I’m not here for that kind argument. What is tragic to some isn’t to others obviously. Empathy sure is going out the window and people will do anything to justify being a piece of shit apparently.

And don’t sit here and tell me what I don’t care about. You don’t fucking know.

cubedsteaks,

en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_incidents_at_Walt_Disn…en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_incidents_at_Disneylan…

sorry but theme park accidents are fascinating to me.

You should really see the death numbers at the Six Flags parks though. Those places are like a god damn death trap for humans. It’s insane how many people get injured or just die on rides.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Incidents_at_Six_Flags_parks

edit cause I hit enter too soon

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

same, I assume you have heard of / watched the train wreck that was Action Park?

cubedsteaks,

Yes and I believe I once saw an old recording of the guys from Alice In Chains doing like a live broadcast there for MTV. Pretty sure it was an episode of Headbangers Ball.

cubedsteaks,

I saw a long post about this on tumblr and they were saying something like, one person dies a year on the playa at burning man so we shouldn’t feel sorry for the one person who died this year.

So dehumanizing. I was reading that whole post in awe of how fucking empty some people are inside. Like holy shit that’s cruel.

Kecessa,

It sucks for them but if you’re not losing sleep for the tens of thousands that die of starvation each year then I don’t know why you should feel bad for someone who intentionally went to a festival in the middle of the desert and died of something (we don’t know what) during their trip.

cubedsteaks,

but if you’re not losing sleep for the tens of thousands that die of starvation each year

I guess I’m just one of those people then. the worlds problems do tend to keep me up at night.

I legit have a hard time sleeping. Because all I can think is, everything sure does suck and people die for the wrong reasons.

Kecessa,

Get over it

worldpopulationreview.com/…/deaths-per-day

cubedsteaks,

Death is a part of life, I get it but I’m not going to be unempathetic piece of jaded trash over it.

Niggling__Niggard,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Couldbealeotard,
    @Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

    You could just pledge to save lives instead…

    syllabic,

    Outside the event includes people in their 90s dying of old age in hospitals

    Generally the demographic that attends burning man skews younger which is inherently less likely to die

    Kecessa, (edited )

    I included a link to the real stats which you didn’t check and just with people up to their 40s the mortality rate is high enough that you would expect more people to die during that week…

    Heck, let’s look at the stats for 2019 so COVID isn’t taken in consideration (pdf warning):

    www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db395-H.pdf

    The important table:

    https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b7b7564c-3c36-4955-a55b-f265f80bfe6c.webp

    Every group starting with the 25-34 y.o. has a mortality rate higher than what has been seen at Burning Man this year, 15-24 is at 49/70k/year so it’s pretty much par with the current death rate at the festival, so unless all attendees are 24 or less then they’re better off than the general population that didn’t attend.

    stepan,
    @stepan@lemmy.ca avatar

    Strong MORALS?!?!?

    SportsRulesOpinions,
    @SportsRulesOpinions@lemmy.world avatar

    Entirely ignoring who is at burning man or why, I honestly think there needs to be a line somewhere for sympathy. If you truck yourself out into the desert and things go tits up, well, shit happens. That’s the risk you took.

    I say this as a person who used to ride motorcycles, rock climb, and go backpacking. If shit ever went down I wouldn’t have expected any sympathy. I put myself in those risky situations, and there’s just plain gotta be a line for personal responsibility.

    With all that being said, when such a massive group of people continuely take the same risk over and over, it’s kinda funny when they finally get bit. It’s the same reason COVID denires getting COVID is funny.

    mysoulishome,
    @mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

    I appreciate your honesty but this sort of boggles my mind…like well they were asking for it. Ok then.

    PrettyBlackDress,

    Overly inflated ego and sense of self-importance narcissism dude. They have no sympathy for anybody but themselves.

    PostmodernPythia,

    When people have no power to improve their lives, and some of the people who do have that power suffer, a little schadenfreude is natural. Only the death gives me pause, personally.

    scarabic,

    You’re right. Also burners want no sympathy. Self sufficiency is a core value and an expectation of all attendees. People fail at it and other burners hate them for it. No one there is asking for anyone’s sympathy.

    deweydecibel,

    strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure.

    These are extremely generic platitudes that could apply to just about anyone.

    Which morals specifically?

    What’s your definition of “financially responsible”? Because that’s frequently a watered down way of saying “well-off” while trying to attribute it their character and not their situation.

    “Upstanding member of society” is outright meaningless without context. That’s an argument you hear from the defense in criminal trial.

    So why are we supposed to take these hypothetical friends as evidence of anything?

    FuglyDuck,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Not to mention… at least for me… I don’t really think of it as a drug ridden orgy… more of an instagram hotspot.

    In any case… it’s not like they can’t get people out if they really need to. Or food and supplies in. Worst case? The event people helicopter water and food and they spend a few extra days getting tench foot.

    bennieandthez,
    @bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml avatar

    it’s just an us based festival, why do you make it sound as if its a larger than life event.

    snausagesinablanket,
    @snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world avatar

    It used to be about spirituality and the rest including hard drugs, alcohol, and social media bringing in that crowd has ruined it permanently.

    cubedsteaks,

    Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career.

    I think of two people in my past when I think of Burning Man.

    One being my ex who got in trouble for punching his ex girlfriend AT burning man. He had to go to court and she got a restraining order against him. There were also witnesses and he almost got kicked out of school for it. He should have been kicked out of school in my opinion.

    Anyway. Him and his friends were super trashy. All people who went to Burning Man.

    Then there is this girl I use to work with. She was nice. She was extremely pretty. 10/10 instagram model type, not even exaggerated. She was also super late to everything. I waited two hours for her and her friend to meet up at a cafe. That was the last time we hung out. She really came off as someone who gets away with shit just because she’s considered hot.

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