Except Mastercard is lying, FinCEN has specifically issued guidance for national finance institutions (banks, credit cards, etc.) to be able to accept cannabis transactions in states that have legalized. Most of these finance institutions are just unwilling to accept the additional cost of complying with the regulations. There’s a reason why Valley National Bank is so popular with cannabis companies - it’s a national bank that follows FinCEN guidelines. It comes at a higher cost, but a lot of companies feel it’s worth it.
And this FinCEN guidance wasn’t just issued - it was issued in 2014. The only reason the cannabis industry doesn’t have widespread access to traditional finance, and why banks keep lobbying for the SAFE Banking Act, is because the banks don’t want to have to do the extra work to comply with the FinCEN guidance.
Note - I agree it’s stupid that cannabis is federally illegal and think it should be legalized (or at the very least deschedule it and let states decide if they’ll allow it). But Mastercard could choose to follow FinCEN guidance if they wanted to.
This is sort of off topic but the constraints credit card companies put on porn is ridiculous. Cannabis, sadly, is illegal federally. Porn is legal everywhere in the country.
I’d very much support legislation that required payment processors to not discriminate against any firm provided the business transaction is legal.
They might insofar as companies all become pro-regulation once they get big because it raises the barriers to entry for potential competition.
But absolutely, a lot of the problem are people who think “Oh that fetish is gross, therefore it should be restricted!” No. It’s gross to you so don’t watch videos of it.
Right, but that’s for your personal privacy, not your legal protection. If a weed company calls itself Cheshire Garden Supplies instead of Weed Weedersons Weed Emporium then that doesn’t stop the fact that you bought stuff from a weed dispensary from being a federal crime if push comes to shove. All I’m saying is that cash seems the naturally more sensible option either way.
I don’t live in the US… but if at a certain time the federal government decides to go backwards and wants to charge cannabis purchasers with federal crimes then you’re ready to be served up on a platter by your bank.
The context here is payment method, not your willingness to support legal cannabis dispensers.
That would be a pretty big list of people at this point. I don’t think it would even be possible to charge all of them. It’s just unrealistic especially since it’s legal in the state. Possible but unlikely.
You say that, but historically cannabis related charges in particular have been used to target specific parts of the population and individuals. It’s the sort of thing that could be exploited nefariously at a convenient moment. Perhaps I’m reading too much in to it.
I disagree. The federal government has shown every willingness to go after all of us. Imagine a 1000 dollar fine for every pot transaction. You can fight it if you want but that would risk criminal charges. So you take the plea deal.
Agree. Which is why if the federal government decides to put a clamp down on cannabis use, they’re not going to prosecute thousands of users. Prosecuting three or four card payment processing companies and the banks they do business with would have an icy cold chilling effect and bring the industry’s cash flows to a dead stop.
What if dozens/hundreds of individuals were prosecuted for possession of a controlled substance because the DEA a) subpoenas the suppliers to get a list of transactions and B) subpoenas the credit card processors to get info on customers?
Because that’s the fear
This is extremely unlikely under the current admin, but we may very well have a far more hostile admin in just under 18 months
ITT: plenty of people who don’t remember 2007 or 2020. Financial forms obey the rules that they want to when they want to. The federal government works for them, not the other way around.
This has nothing to do with the law this is MasterCard deciding to not go after that market.
I agree on a level, but interstate commerce laws mean that these institutions are held by federal regulation to not accept these payments. As others here have said, the real issue is marijuana needs to just be legalized on the fed level. Then this wouldn’t be an issue.
So real talk, VISA isn't much better - if you have a business selling tobacco, cannabis, or firearm related products you have a really hard time taking payments online. Most big vendors (like Paypal, Square, etc) won't work with you once you hit $5k to $10k a year in sales (for small businesses starting out you'll slip by for a few months until you grow big enough to get manually audited).
Then you need to find special card processing banks who are approved by VISA to work with tobacco/firearm companies and go through all sorts of review before your store will be approved for processing payments.
And that's just selling hardware like pipes and accessories. I'm not even talking about the raw material itself.
This sucks, but it won't stop anyone, they'll simply switch to another service. I bet VISA's stock will pop tomorrow because of this news if it hasn't already haha
This really isn’t that big of a deal anyways. Just deploy an ATM inside the shop as a courtesy. Bonus points if it’s a nice machine that can give customers amounts in increments as little as $5.
Since your business has cash as it’s main method of payment; it should be fairly simple to keep said ATM stocked up.
This at least would be the cheeky way to get around restrictions.
I highly doubt any sensible dispensary delivers their product! For obvious legal reasons, no, you have to go to their physical location and buy their product physically in-store so that they can make sure you’re:
Not two kids in a trench coat.
Not otherwise forbidden from buying cannabis by state law.
Not all cracked out.
Not buying in bulk amounts so that you can give/sell that good shit out to all your friends
Not a Federal Bikini Inspector or a Constantly Interjecting Asshole working with the Dipshits Eating Assoles who’s sole mission is to ruin everything for everyone
Obeying the laws of the state while buying the goods
Lol I'm not talking about dispensary businesses. I'm talking about online shops selling hardware like glass pipes and stuff. It's dumb, but it affects many small businesses in the USA.
Sadly there is no simple way to install a virtual ATM for payments on an online store
The messed up part is that while you can't do tobacco product sales using Paypal in the USA, if you're outside the USA paypal will totally take your business. As I've been told directly from Paypal's representatives - they want our business, but it's VISA putting down the rules about what merchant services can work with tobacco/firearm/cannabis sales - and there aren't many in the country (Paypal, Square, etc are not on that list).
The hardware isn’t illegal at any level, so it doesn’t really affect headshops. Just dispensaries that sell cannabis itself; because cannabis is still federally outlawed.
The way the dispensaries around me handle it is that they just do a cash withdrawal at the register as if I was using an ATM, so I pay the store in cash and the bank just sees it as getting cash back.
Time to change lines of business. “We’re a taco shop, but you can buy weed here in compliamce with local laws. Sorry if you receipt just says TACOS no matter what you buy. We’re working on that.”
What has worked in some states is the ‘gift pot’ strategy. You sell them a vastly overpriced taco and they get a gift of weed along with the snack. Generally the states get upset about this and close the loophole.
Basically what dispensaries in Washington, DC do. Everything is a “donation” or an “art purchase” and the pot is a “gift”. Total nonsense, but it mostly works, because DC intends to legalize recreational marijuana sales, and Congress isn’t letting it happen. So it seems like enforcement is just lax.
It’s not MasterCard’s fault, it’s the federal regulations against marijuana that make it illegal for MasterCard to process these payments. Blame the federal government, specifically the DEA who’ve become their own legislators and enforcers (they’ve usurped the original checks and balances of the Controlled Substances Act, it’s pretty fucked up actually).
Bottom line: War on drugs has been a catastrophic failure of epic proportions and yet we haven’t gutted and dismantled the sole agency that’s gotten fat off of it and operates with barely any oversight.
I understand your point, but MasterCard’s faults are several enough that I’ll cut them slack like I will any other financial institution squeezing fee and interest payments from the poorest among us. Credit cards are now required for all online transactions. To think one has a choice among the many available is to think one can choose which lung to breathe with.
Oh don’t get me wrong, they’re an evil company like the rest of their ilk. I was just clarifying that in this specific context, they’re not the ones at fault for once.
I hope people remember these companies and politicians who attempted to blockade Cannabis businesses when it is invariably made federally legal. They will more than likely never face the consequences of their stupidity while they turn a blind eye to armed robberies that are specifically caused by these policies yet get fat on the tax revenue regardless.
The idea that we need to plead fealty to these degenerates to get them to take common sense approaches to issues that the majority of the voter base has agreed on for a decade is ridiculous. No matter how anybody personally feels about Cannabis consumption it never has and never will go away. Prohibition doesn’t work, and attempting to legislate other peoples ethics is a losing gambit.
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