Dozens of health organizations pledge ‘full support’ for federal ban on menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars

Eighty national public health groups, including the American Heart Association, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Preventative Medicine, placed a full-page ad in Sunday’s edition of the Washington Post in support of a federal ban on menthol in cigarettes and all flavored cigars.

“The answer is clear,” the full-page ad says. “Saving lives starts by ending the sale of menthol cigarettes and all flavored cigars.

“Smoking kills nearly half a million people in the United States each year, and these addictive, deadly products are a big part of the problem. The FDA and White House have our full support to release lifesaving rules prohibiting menthol cigarettes and all flavored cigars.”

HawlSera,

You can’t legislate morality, this isn’t going to make people smoke less it will make people grumpy while smoking

robocall,

Alcohol causes more problems in society than tobacco.

HawlSera,

This is true

M0oP0o, (edited )
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Urgh, when they banned them in my country it was with this same stupid logic.

Now I don’t smoke (quit 15ish years ago) but this idea that anything flavoured somehow MUST be for the purpose of marketing towards children is insane. It manages to be wrong in two opposite ways:

One: This implies that anything with flavor is not for adults and everyone over the age of majority goes home to enjoy our grey flavourless mush.

Two: This implies that the flavors involved must be what appeals most to children. You know those menthol and whisky tipped smokes that all the children go nuts for.

This logic falls apart (both ways) when you look at any other legal market like booze, weed or vape.

It is almost as if after the US lost the war on drugs they want to try again on a smaller scale.

Draedron,

The flavour makes it so more people start. So it is good to ban it.

M0oP0o, (edited )
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Does it? I have not been convinced. Also by that logic why should other not healthy things be flavoured? Why can you buy flavoured malt liquor, weed gummies, vapes or edible panties? With this same logic junk food should taste like sadness and regret for the future health of the children (won’t someone think of the children).

How this does not come off as ludicrous to anyone makes me question my own sanity. If smoking was such an issue and potential future addiction had to be stopped, banning the nicotine (you know the addictive) makes more sense then allowing the sale of the same addictive product as long as it does not taste minty.

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Have you ever smoked a flavored cigar? Yeah, it tastes just like cherries or grape or cognac or whatever… right up until you light it. And then it tastes exactly like tobacco. Just like all other tobacco. Trust me, flavoring tobacco like anything is not the part that makes “children” want to keep smoking it.

youCanCallMeDragon,
@youCanCallMeDragon@lemmy.world avatar

People who think smokers smoke for the flavor are not in touch with reality. This will do nothing for public health.

rchive,

I think it will. It will drive menthols underground and they’ll become more dangerous just like alcohol during Prohibition.

rambaroo,

You can just buy menthol infusers online. This law will do nothing

Draedron,

Some start for the flavour which is the issue

kttnpunk,
@kttnpunk@lemmy.world avatar

Or you know, we could just regulate and test what goes into these products rather than create another black market for ones that will only inevitably be produced with even less quality overseas and imported

Kiernian,

Like every time this comes up, this is straight up racism.

If they actually cared about protecting children, they’d put quality control restrictions on the fluids used in vape pens to prevent popcorn lung and the like BECAUSE KIDS DON’T REALLY SMOKE CIGARETTES ANYMORE.

You know who disproportionately smokes menthols and flavored cigarellos?

Black people.

If they actually had something against smoking, they’d ban ALL CIGARETTES.

If they were actually trying to protect kids, they’d go after what kids are using.

They’re going after the smoke of choice for large portions of the black community.

What does that tell you?

max,

Is it really, though? My country banned menthols ages ago, because it made cigarettes less nasty and thus easier to get into. Makes sense to me. We don’t have the amount of segregation here like in the US. At least not racially-based. Not saying there isn’t any, but it’s definitely not on the same level.

thedeadwalking4242,

It’s like people in this thread don’t realize how massively addictive nicotine is? I see addicts all the time try to excuse their addictions with every excuse in the book. I was addicted once. It took every part of my soul to quit that shit. nicotine is a mistake many make and don’t come back from and pretend it their choice shit should be band. Just due to it’s addictive nature. Banned for the same reason lotterys are generat only owned by the state. Shits is a a great investment. People will kill themselves or others to give you money

rchive,

I think people know it’s addictive and generally bad, they just also know that prohibition usually doesn’t work.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Yeah, so why would they ban flavors and not nicotine? It seems that would be the play if they wanted to stop smoking (and start some riots).

thedeadwalking4242,

They don’t ban it because most of Congress chews smokes or takes money

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Oh and I don’t think they should give up legal things they do anyway. The issue is they don’t do the thing that could address this because it is not a good idea and punishes people, but then in the same breath turn around and do the thing that will NOT address the issue AND is also a bad idea that punishes people (Just not their people).

braxy29,

It’s like people in this thread don’t realize how massively addictive caffeine is? I see addicts all the time try to excuse their addictions with every excuse in the book. I was addicted once. It took every part of my soul to quit that shit. caffeine is a mistake many make and don’t come back from and pretend it their choice shit should be band. Just did to it’s addictive nature. Banned for the same reason lotterys are generat only owned by the state. Shits is a a great investment. People will kill themselves or others to give you money

(edit /s proud nicotine addict here)

thedeadwalking4242,

Caffine is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. And to conflate the too is a fat ass lie. I’ve quit both caffeine was three days of headaches at most. Quiting nicotine was my skin crawling and wanting to yank out my teeth for months. It’s been more then two years and I still crave it. They are not the same you are exactly the type of nicotine addict I talk about. They are absolutely not the same

stella,

Sigh. The only good drugs are the ones I take.

Let’s stop policing what people put in their bodies, eh?

intensely_human,

What the fuck?

Zippit,

This is hypocrisy. Let people smoke whatever they want. We’re not living in the fifties, everybody and their mother knows nicotine kills.

What they don’t get is that not everybody has a wonderful life and wants to live forever.

There are bans in place for kids, and adults should have the right to decide what they want. Ban flavoured alcohol too then.

Shanedino,

Sure I’m fine with both bans, alcohol not only kills yourself but many others too. The only reason it’s not illegal is because it’s ingrained in society.

stella,

The only reason it’s not illegal is because it’s ingrained in society.

What about the history we learned from when it was illegal?

You… did learn from history, right?

Shanedino,

Could you clarify your point? You think flavored cigarettes are just as ingrained as alcohol?

stella,

I’m saying we already banned alcohol and it didn’t work out.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Prohibition_in_the_United_Stat…

Shanedino,

Ah that’s all, thought you were going deeper.

Dark_Arc, (edited )
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

You know, I don’t really care what you smoke, but I care that it’s communal. Somebody drinking wine, beer, a white claw, etc a few feet away doesn’t immediately negatively impact my existence by depriving me of clean air … or cause a friend with breathing issues a panic attack.

Plenty of adults “decide” to smoke for kids by smoking with the kids around.

Plenty of adults “decide” to smoke in the entrances of buildings, on busy sidewalks, in an outdoor mall, etc.

Plenty of adults have “decided” to smoke because it’s “safe” per some anecdote that they heard about a family member that smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 90.

It’s actually all pretty freaking infuriating. One of the best things that’s ever been done is banning smoking inside of most buildings.

At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.

stella,

We see fewer and fewer of the adults you mention with each passing day.

I recall as a child seeing adults smoking all the time. Now it’s a rare occurrence.

At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.

Jesus fucking christ, you people…

ByteJunk,
@ByteJunk@lemmy.world avatar

So the takeaway is that the health warnings are right?

stella,

Can you read?

The takeaway is that we don’t need further legislation against smoking. His use of the word ‘plenty’ isn’t accurate of reality.

ByteJunk,
@ByteJunk@lemmy.world avatar

We definitely need laws regulating salt intake, that much will kill you bro.

Dark_Arc, (edited )
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

nytimes.com/…/smoking-cigarettes-comeback.html?sm…

Yet, in 2020, for the first time in two decades, cigarette sales increased.

That’s not just an unsubstantiated “feeling.”

At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.

Jesus fucking christ, you people…

“You people” as if you know me.

In any case, the whole point of alcohol being 21 is that by 21 A) you’re not talking to that many people who are still in high school/not yet 18 and B) you should be making better decisions.

Which has a net effect of lowering the amount of people that engage in these behaviors, because it doesn’t spread as much in high schools.

Now, maybe that doesn’t work as well as “we” (society) thinks, but if we still think it’s a good idea for alcohol it absolutely should apply to cigarettes and vapes. Vaping was supposed to help people stop smoking, not create a whole new problem.

If you’re smoking cigarettes, and you’re proud or happy with that decision as an adult, you are an outlier among outliers. I can’t say I’ve ever met someone that smokes cigarettes that hasn’t tried to completely quit at least once (with the exception of the guy who believes “they’re completely safe” despite all the information to the contrary).

This isn’t alcohol where the majority is split between people that happily consume alcohol in small quantities vs a subset of alcoholics. This is a thing where it’s universally harmful to the smoker, to the people around them, to the environment (cigarette butts), etc. It’s also much more addictive than alcohol and marijuana where people need smoke breaks. It’s just a regrettable mess from when society didn’t know better.

Zippit,

Me. I never even attempted to quit smoking. I know it kills. And I want to be left alone and not harassed by other people as if they’re saving my life or something.

It is my choice.

stella,

🥱

Witchfire, (edited )
@Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

Cigarette filters are also fucking gross compared to joints, assuming you aren’t using weird fancy shit for your joints. Joint filters are rolled up paper and biodegrade rather quickly (technically the whole joint is easily biodegradable). Cigarette butts last forever.

A friend tossed a cigarette butt into our bonfire last weekend and it turned the flames green lolol.

Chr0nos1,

In some places it has been raised to match alcohol. NY is an example of that: www.health.ny.gov/…/current_policies.htm#:~:text=….

Dark_Arc,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Good.

Zippit,

Sorry but it’s a witch hunt at this point. And don’t get me started about drunk people wanting to grope me every time I go out.

Where I live, every workplace has a designated area where you can smoke. Indoor smoking is forbidden.

The drinking age here is 16, so is buying tobacco. There really aren’t that many smokers anymore. Most kids vape or smoke pot.

Also if your friend has asthma, I don’t know, stay away from smoking people you see? It can’t be that hard.

Also, I started smoking because I was bored. Now I keep smoking because I want to. I’ve actively stopped kids in my family from starting with it, so I’m not trying to say smoking is ok. Just leave us be.

Thetimefarm,

What a stupid fucking comment lol.

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

At the very least the age should be raised to match alcohol.

FYI it has been, on a Federal level (in the US), since 2019. Donald Trump of all people on Earth signed that into law. The legal age to buy cigarettes and to buy alcohol in the US is the same, 21.

Dark_Arc,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Wow, I missed that. Good catch!

rishado,

Ironically nicotine doesn’t kill, bud. Smoking does. I get what you mean but there’s no downside to nicotine other than addiction strictly speaking

DBT,

Non-menthol cigs are fine, we just can’t stand for the ones black people prefer.

Thade780,
@Thade780@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t know I was black.

reverendsteveii,

congratulations!

Thade780,
@Thade780@lemmy.world avatar

🥳

at_an_angle,
@at_an_angle@lemmy.one avatar

The only reason I ever smoked menthol was because of the rumor that they got you higher after smoking.

Veedem,
@Veedem@lemmy.world avatar

I have maybe a cigar a month. Sometimes, a nice dipped cigar is enjoyable. It’d be a shame to just outright ban them.

chaogomu,

Tobacco is fucking horrible, but Menthol and other flavorings make it so much worse. They increase the likelihood of addiction massively.

And is always the case in public health, you don't put in rules to cater to the edge cases, you put in rules to protect the majority affected.

Melkath,

Tell me you're not a smoker without telling me you're not a smoker.

You clearly have no idea how tobacco addiction works.

Prohibition doesn't work. Mind your own fucking business.

chaogomu,

I can tell that you're addicted just by the vitriol in your response here.

Did you start of menthols and other flavored tobacco? Because that's how a lot of people start. Which is why people are pushing for a ban, so others won't be as hopelessly addicted as you are.

Melkath,

Fuck you.

It's my choice.

Mind your own fucking business you fucking asshole.

Here, childhood obesity is a MUCH larger issue than smoking.

Go ban all the artificial flavorings that are in all of the different bowls of sugar, ahem, breakfast cereals, that are shamefully aimed at children in an effort to give them diabetes, just leave the aisle full of plain rasin bran.

Do that and I'll believe it's about health and the kids and not simply a power trip controlling another person's choices.

A lifetime of doctors visits, insulin vials, insulin pumps, blood sugar meters, etc are bleeding this country FAR more than 80 year olds with lung cancer (that probably wasnt even caused by the tobacco).

BenGFHC, (edited )

In places where healthcare is vaguely civilized, your unhealthy addiction becomes my business because it comes with negative social externalities in the form of additional cost and strain on a public health service.

Edit: Spelling

Melkath,

Doesn't sound very civilized at all.

Sounds judgy, controlling, biased, and miserable.

freeindv,

That’s what you get from government run healthcare

gregorum,

This is an article and discussion specifically about a federal ban in the US. So, unless you live here, it’s not your business.

soren446, (edited )
@soren446@lemmy.world avatar

“Vaguely civilized” my man what the fuck are you talking about? Is Germany one of those civilized healthcare places? Because I can get beer and cigarettes out of a vending machine there without an ID and wanna guess what the number 1 and number 2 causes of death are in most countries? Heart attacks and cancer. Which both HEAVILY contribute to.

Either ban things that cause harm and increase costs and strain on public services in full or shut up. It’s a long fucking list that’s gonna include a lot of things you enjoy.

Angry_Maple,
@Angry_Maple@sh.itjust.works avatar

That’s not even getting into the possible “fun suprises” we’ll have from all of the microplastics in our bodies.

freeindv,

Exactly why I’m so strongly against government run healthcare

lightnsfw,

Should we ban junk food then? How about a fat tax? I’d wager obesity is a far bigger strain on the healthcare system than smoking is.

chaogomu,

Wow, denying that tobacco causes cancer is a level of delusion that I had thought died out with the 5th or 6th Marlboro Man (who all died of cancer).

Do you want to know one of the causes of cancer from Tobacco? It might surprise you.

But you'll ignore this because you're hopelessly addicted to nicotine, one of the single most addictive chemicals known.

You try to deflect with whataboutisms, but guess what? People are trying to solve those health problems as well. You're just pissed that they're trying to solve one that affects your personal addiction.

JackbyDev,

Your last sentence, dude. 🤣 Way to ruin your credibility.

themeatbridge,

Go ban all the artificial flavorings that are in all of the different bowls of sugar, ahem, breakfast cereals, that are shamefully aimed at children

We should do that, without question. Marketing candy to children as part of a balanced breakfast should be a crime.

maryjayjay,

Are you suggesting that bad eating habits cause type 1 diabetes?

soren446,
@soren446@lemmy.world avatar

Doesn’t matter. Adults are fully developed and can make their own choices. There are resources to help with addiction. I’ve stopped smoking before. It’s difficult but doable and certainly not hopeless. No need to be an asshole about addiction.

AngryCommieKender,

I personally was addicted before I ever had even a single puff, and plenty of others started the same way I did. I took a job to earn spending money as a 13 y/o kid cause I wanted Secret of Mana and that was a $60 or $70 game. So I went down the road to the nearest tobacco farm, and started stripping tobacco for $4.25 an hour. I left each 4 hour shift with about ½cm of black tar completely coating the palms and fingers of my hands. After two weeks cigarettes smelled good. I’m far from alone in this experience. So, no. Menthol and flavorings actually cause me to turn down cigarettes, I like the taste of tobacco.

You’re just being ignorant and holier than thou.

chaogomu,

Do a lot of teens work on tobacco farms for their first exposure to nicotine? No, that was just you?

I mean, you also bring up the specter of unsafe child labor. That's something else that we need to tackle, but we can also ban flavorings that make the tobacco more addictive to those who didn't spend their childhood harvesting tobacco.

AngryCommieKender,

Yes. Of my graduating class of 300, about 100 of us worked on the tobacco farms. In tobacco country this is a very common way for teens to make money. Note, I was working because I chose to. That doesn’t fall under child labor. I’m sure some of the other teens were working because they had to.

chaogomu,

You were a child who was working. That's child labor. Full stop.

You also were exposed to harmful chemicals. Even if you "wanted" to be there, you should not have been.

So you worked, got a video game, and a lifelong addiction. And you think that was a good thing?

But it still doesn't matter. Yours is an edge case. This proposed ban on flavorings for tobacco is meant to help prevent thousands from getting addicted in the first place.

Here's how it works. A given teen will, at some point, try a cigarette. If it's flavored, they are statistically more likely to try a second. If you ban flavorings, then that second cigarette will be less likely.

We know that nicotine is more addictive than pretty much any other chemical out there, but it's not instantly addictive. The goal is to make smoking as unpleasant as possible. Which will also save the lives of some people who are currently addicted.

AngryCommieKender,

Nah, teen usage has been down for the last decade. This measure is nothing more than a red herring. Wanna actually protect our children? Pass universal healthcare or ban guns.

You’re still being willfully ignorant and holier than thou.

chaogomu,

Nice whataboutism.

But we can do both.

I personally say ban tobacco completely, because it's still the single largest cause of medical issues in the US.

Cancer, COPD, Heart Disease, Diabetes, Stokes, etc. All diseases that smokers get at extremely elevated rates. Hell, currently, one out of every five deaths in the US are linked to cigarette use.

But sure, gun control. It's a good idea, but it wouldn't do anything about 20% of all deaths each year.

Anyway, teens are most likely to start smoking via menthols or flavored tobacco. Which is why we should ban them. Because if you can drive that 20% number down, you should.

AngryCommieKender,

You’re making shit up now. Smoking doesn’t come close to 20% of the deaths in any group, except for possibly China in their oldest age categories. Fuck off with your lies.

chaogomu,

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

Cigarette smoking causes about one of every five deaths in the United States each year.1,6 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following:1

More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
278,544 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
201,773 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)

Cigarette smoking causes premature death:

Life expectancy for smokers is at least 10 years shorter than for nonsmokers.1,2
Quitting smoking before the age of 40 reduces the risk of dying from smoking-related disease by about 90%.2

Not lies.

braxy29,

my sibling in christ. where are you getting this stuff? you sound like you’re parroting something you were told but have little actual scientific or experiential understanding.

chaogomu,

Why are there so many people who are pro-lung cancer in this thread?

Do people just not like breathing?

soren446,
@soren446@lemmy.world avatar

Doesn’t matter if it’s only for adults. Same with alcohol. Cirrhosis is a major issue and we don’t ban flavored liquor. Let adults do what they want with their bodies.

Juul was a problem because they fucking effectively marketed towards teens with their ads. Vaping is immensely safer than cigarettes though from a second-hand smoke perspective.

What really pisses me off here besides telling an adult they can’t have something that almost entirely affects them is the fact that menthol and swisher bans disproportionately affect Black people.

sylver_dragon,

Because Prohibition worked out so well they first time. But yes, let’s learn that lesson again, it’s not like we haven’t been having it reinforced over the last half-century with the War Ear Drugs.

But this time it will be different, right?

freeindv,

We need to ban public health

MagicShel,

I sort of feel like this is the equivalent of banning white claws or even everything other than IPAs. During the summer I have a cigar most days. Once the temps drop below 60, I’m done with tobacco for six months or so. I don’t smoke flavored cigars, but I don’t like it for those who do.

stella,

Welcome to the ‘all drugs are bad unless I do them’ mentality.

CoderKat,

Yeah, it’s unfortunate. I understand it. The flavours do make smoking more enticing to young people, who might not limit themselves to one cigar a month like you do. But it does suck to ban something outright just because some people will misuse it. Mind you, nicotine is addictive, which is a pretty critical facet to this (though I don’t think anyone starts smoking without knowing this risk).

I dislike smoking in general and do want things that are good for society as a whole. But the logic of banning stuff like this seems similar to, say, banning fast food because some people will overeat (or more extreme, having calorie rationing so that people can’t overeat on any kind of food). It’s admittedly always a balancing act for how much danger is acceptable before we just ban it for everyone. Some bans using this logic are very reasonable, some aren’t, and many are extremely debatable.

I think I currently prefer the sin tax approach, especially since that best accomodates occasional usage. A hefty tax makes the dangerous thing less accessible to impressionable young people and helps pay for the social cost (though IIRC, smokers actually cost society less because they die younger, reducing the many medical costs of old age). Price influences people’s choices, too. If healthy food is cheaper than unhealthy food, that encourages buying healthy stuff. But even sin taxes are imperfect, especially in a vacuum. They can make the cost of living higher for a vulnerable population. They need to be planned carefully.

MartinXYZ,

There are flavoured cigars?

TurboDiesel,
@TurboDiesel@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know about “real” cigars, but they make the ones people roll blunts with in a bunch of different flavors like vanilla and grape.

MagicShel,

“Real” cigars tend to be flavored with things like whisky or other alcohols. But anyone who draws an arbitrary line defining what is and isn’t a real cigar, it starts to feel gatekeepy, so I just live and let live. If someone smokes grape cigars and enjoys them, more power to them.

TurboDiesel,
@TurboDiesel@lemmy.world avatar

Totally agree! I guess “regular” cigar would have been better? I smoke both cigars and blunts and have no issue with either, I just don’t know what they call the wrap ones.

waz,

I used to smoke flavored cigarettes. When they were made illegal where I live they were modified and re-released as flavored cigarillos(mini cigars).

They were similar, but different enough that I no longer enjoyed smoking them.

cubism_pitta,

Blunt wraps are what these are mainly targeting I imagine (Backwoods, Swisher Sweets, White Owls)… BUT Acid cigars are pretty nice and the brand I always point out. They used to advertise in cigar magazines back when I would read them and would feature interesting rolling methods that leaned in to the name. (Cheaper end as far as cigars go)

HooPhuckenKarez,

When they banned flavored cigarettes where I am, they had to make a carveout for menthol cigarettes. The claim at thie time was, banning menthol was racist because black people mostly smoke menthols. Early aughts ftr.

gullible,

That’s hilarious. Next the ATF is going to bring back 4 loko because it’s ageist not to have preventable heart attacks in your teens.

ArbitraryValue,

If we don’t stand with smokers and stop the American Heart Association now, then by the time it comes to force us to eat right and exercise, it’ll be too late.

ivanafterall,
@ivanafterall@kbin.social avatar

I'd love to stand with smokers, but standing makes me winded.

EyesInTheBoat,
@EyesInTheBoat@lemmy.world avatar

Have you run a marathon this week? No? Your medical insurance rates are 2x until you resolve this problem.

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