I don’t think a progressive politician would have a slam-dunk move here either since it’s causing friction in a lot of circles… and that’s not even starting to get into the shenanigans needed to get a plan through Congress.
The friction goes both ways. The problem is… who do you appeal to? Older Americans who are gonna die off in the next decade, or “younger” (read: everybody else) who has to live with the policies bejng made for the next several decades?
Sorry, but old boomers are dying off. The party needs to adapt and stop pretending like it’s the late eighties early nineties.
The only reason Biden was “electable” was because he was so boring as to be inoffensive- which is why he made a great choice for VP.
He was the compromise candidate that happened because Hilary already lost to trump, and Bernie is a ScArY SoCIaLiSt, and there was nobody else with the name recognition on the national level.
“Blue no matter who” can go both ways, you know. Why is it always the mantra of conservatives pretending to not be. (If you haven’t noticed corpo dems happily slid into the conservative space as republicans slid into being regressive asshats).
As much as the Israel/Palestine problem exists it’s going to draw ire from somebody. Might as well go for people who actually have a future in politics.
I agree it’ll be difficult to converge the older Democrats with progressive ones and the party ought to defer to the younger generation. But I was referring to friction within some progressive groups, specifically with what the end-state of this conflict looks like.
While elements such as the need to provide humanitarian aid seem universal and something almost everyone can agree on, that’s about where the cohesion ends
It’ll be substantially more difficult to navigate the spectrum of opinions about who should be considered at fault for Oct 7th, as well as what the end-result of this conflict should look like with who has control over what territory or in what capacity.
I think this issue is far from “all progressives believe xyz” and has the potential to alienate at least a chunk of people.
While it's awful, it's nevertheless true that he will always do better being seen as Islamophobic rather than as antisemitic. The amount of shit he'd get from all sides if he supported the Palestinians from the start would dwarf the current amount of shit by an order of magnitude.
I mean, this has become more than just islamophobe vs antisemite. What Biden is facing is being rightly called accomplice to genocide, at a time when support for Palestine has already overtaken that for Israel among democrat voters.
Every time anyone brings up RFK I assume it’s a psyops campaign. The right likes him better than the left, but that’s not saying a lot. I’ve never heard one person on the left say one good thing about him.
JFK supports Israel unconditionally but also repeats the conspiracy that COVID was engineered to spare Jewish and Chinese people. He’s truly full of terrible ideas.
Yea this depends on the state law. In the state I’m talking about they have to let you leave for 4 hours if you ask for it at least a day ahead of time.
Not voting is allowing Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, et al to win. Because they are the primary players in fomenting hatred via social media. Any American that does not realize that many many countries in the world want us to epically fail is just fucking ignorant. It’s very justified in many instances but it’s still the reality. And allowing our enemies to win is total BS.
I agree and will vote for Biden, but I also understand why some choose not to vote or vote third party. America did this to itself with the electoral college and the two party system. We shouldn’t have to choose between allowing genocide or committing genocide. Those choices are unacceptable.
Then we get what we deserve. Which, frankly, the rest of the world wants. That’s why they’re all spending tremendous resources filtering and skewing social media to foment hatred.
In every voting system, not voting is equivalent to a vote for the worst option.
That’s how democracy in general works. Even with ranked choice voting, if someone only puts candidate A as their choice because they disagree with everyone else, then their vote doesn’t count if candidate A is eliminated in the first round.
Not voting at all just lowers the threshold needed to win.
I’m sorry, but that’s not even close to how democracy in general works.
I’ve lived, worked and voted in The Netherlands where vote is proportional and there the “useful vote” (or as it should be better called “negative vote” as people vote against the other candidate rather than for a candidate) does not exist at all.
I’ve also lived and voted in other coutries of Europe with different systems and the Dutch one is one of the best and that certainly gets reflected in their politics (those of consensus, not partisanship) and outcomes and the only one which is as bad as the US is the British one (in fact, with a Monarch with real power and an unellected 2nd House, it’s probably less democractic than the US system, though at least their uninominal electoral circles aren’t as large as in the US)
(All those countries were EU countries at the time, hence why I could vote in all of them, though in some only in Local Elections and for the EU Parliament)
The US is a not a Democracy, it’s this wierd Power Duopoly system with a near-symbolic vote sitting between a Power Monopoly (i.e. Dictatorship) and real Democracy.
Do not confuse your ignorance when it comes to voting systems with what is maybe one of the most visible effects of anti-democratic voting systems being “how democracy in general works”. Not! Even! Close!
Your words: “In every voting system a non vote is a vote for the worst option”
So I just pointed you out voting systems were that’s not the case.
That emotional reaction at me pointing that out and that the American voting system (clearly all that you know) is particularly anti-democratic even amongst flawed voting systems is a pretty good indication of somebody either whose identity is entwided with a nation which they must believe is superior to see themselves as inherently superior or being one of those wankers who firmly believes he’s always right with no requirement for proof and whilst being incapable of taking in criticism to such a level it’s an actual diagnosable mental disease, hence my criticism of the nation and that proven wrong unsupported belief resulting in such emotional pain and rage.
Normal, healthy and non-brainwashed individuals don’t react like that.
That’s some seriously fucked up psychological shit ridding you that I wouldn’t wish on my worse enemy.
In systems which are parliamentary rather than presidential, there is no such thing as a single candidate (with real power) that’s chosen because there is no single president representing the whole land (or, as in Germany, whilst there is one, it’s purelly symbolic with no actual power).
If the parliamentary election uses proportional vote, once again there are no single candidates being selected: people vote for parties and then seats are allocated in a proportional way, so not voting is perfectly neutral and indirectly favours no party.
Even in systems with parliamentary elections using multiple candidate electoral circles, not voting only sometimes benefits a specific candidate (depending very much on the balance of the other votes).
It’s only when you have single candidate electoral circles or presidential elections (for a position with real power) that not voting for one of the main parties is almost the same as voting for the other one.
Not that I’m defending not voting: personally if and when I find no candidate to my liking I’ll still go and vote, only vote blank, since not voting can just be interpreted as lazy whilst going to the trouble of getting one’s sorry ass of one’s sofa to go and a stand in line and then vote, only to vote blank, most definitelly signals one’s dissatisfaction with all parties/candidates.
It’s extremelly easy for politicians to spin abstention as unimportant, but not so for blank votes.
I’ve actually been a member of political parties in 2 countries (and always small parties, so it’s not as if I’m going personally gain from it) and have even manned voting sections, so it’s not as if I’m not doing far more than average to try and improve the countries I live in.
Then again I can have this far more nouanced take on voting because I generally lived in countries were the voting system meant voting made at least some difference.
Hey, if it makes you feel better to think that other people couldn’t possibly write themselves something that requires broad knowledge and which you can’t follow, go right ahead and tell yourself they’re using an LLM.
The people that care most about this were never going to vote in general. And with a significant majority of the population supporting Israel, there’s not really any option for candidates against it either.
And again, given that the majority of the population supports Israel, someone like Trump and Biden are going to be equivalent on the issue.
Only 13% say their sympathies lie with Palestinians in the war.
It’s really only Arab Americans that support Palestine over Israel. And more Arab Americans identify as Republican and would vote for Trump who is even more pro Israel and anti Palestinian. reuters.com/…/arab-american-support-biden-democra…
The people that care most about this were never going to vote in general.
Not necessarily. People aged 18-24 had a voter turnout of about 48% the last election.
And with a significant majority of the population supporting Israel, there’s not really any option for candidates against it either.
The population includes republicans who aren't gonna vote for Biden anyway. According to the Guardian:
Gallup has been tracking the gradual downward shift in sympathy toward Israel among Democrats that started in about 2014. In February, for the first time, Democrats’ sympathies for the Palestinians were higher than for the Israelis, 49% to 38%.
The youth thinks voting in a presidential election is all they need to do to make change. That is the bare minimum. You need to vote in every election, small ones that happen locally, every rep and Senate one. You also need to encourage other youths in strong conservative areas to move the needle to more liberal, progressive views. Then you need to get active and show the people running that there is a strong unified voice that demands these changes. But there is tic Tok and I'm pretty tired, cants someone else go and do it?
Don’t be a single issue voter either. Shit is too important to throw away your most valuable resource to combat climate change, ensure world peace, fund science and medical research, and equal rights for everyone.
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does. Federal and local elections. It’s very important everyone vote.
Nope. I didn’t fuck this shit up by not voting, they did it. My one vote is not that powerful! If it was I would still be voting 🤣 Dumbest comments in the thread are the ones that think their votes matter.
I’ve made absolutely zero difference all the years I’ve voted, so why should I bother anymore? I just don’t care. The US is a car speeding down a road to a destination, who is driving that car doesn’t matter, change it every four or eight years, it makes absolutely no difference, the US will arrive exactly where it’s headed no matter who is in charge or whether I vote or not.
Plus it’s my vote to do with what I want, I choose to not use it. Give me someone worth voting for and I will show up first, they never will though.
You are dead wrong to imply a single vote can not or has not made the difference to win elections. Even if the national isn’t decided by a single vote local votes matter and they are where these razor thin margins are prevalent.
The only way we will hear the actual voice of the people is if everyone who can speak does so.
Lastly, what is the harm in voting? It takes very little effort, especially if you are in a mail-in state. It could make some difference, that makes it worth it easy or not
And what if he decides that vote should be a “fuck you and your pacifism” and gives it to the fascists because your leaders refused to take any of this seriously and gave away three SCOTUS picks and repealed Roe v Wade and ushered in New Gilead because fundraising was more important and they said this could never happen?
By voting for one of the only two candidates who has a chance of winning, but picking the one who will do the least damage and keep doing that over and over again until you get someone who isn’t terrible.
No. Absolutely not. I morally cannot vote for the one “who will do the least damage” Not a chance, that’s a complete waste of my vote in my opinion, and at that point what’s the difference if I just sit out? Nobody is happy if I don’t vote, that’s wrong, I’m supposed to vote for someone I don’t like so another candidate that I dislike even more doesn’t win. What the fuck change will ever happen in a lifetime with that strategy? This shits broken, I’m not participating anymore because of it, my vote, my choice how I use it, I choose not to use it.
I honestly don’t care. I had nothing to do with how he got there the first time, if I use my vote, it will do absolutely nothing to stop him a second time. Also… Dems could nominate someone besides Biden… Everyone in this thread acts like my one vote makes all the difference, it doesn’t, it won’t, this thing is rigged in every way possible, the whole system should be better, I didn’t create it, I didn’t make the rules.
I’m from Washington state, so again, my vote doesn’t matter, that’s the way the system works. My state will go blue with or without me participating.
The whole entire everything needs a complete overhaul, and it’s not going to happen. It’s just a show. Maybe we get the orange clown again, maybe not, who knows, I really don’t care.
You honestly don’t care about the future? What a strange attitude. I suppose you’re in favor of us using fossil fuels in that case. What difference does it make? You won’t be around when it gets really bad.
And there it is. If you “don’t care” then you are complicit in the depths of depravity and corruption. You may deserve it but the rest of us do not.
Oh well I can’t vote for someone unless they are Jesus fucking Christ himself!! If the candidate isn’t perfect I can’t vote for em!!!
Do you fucking hear yourself?? You disgust me, the world is quite literally a worse place because of you and those like you. In reality I have no doubt this is just lazy low effort trolling from you. Pathetic.
I think I was going to say that they have no right to bitch and moan if they didn’t vote for a serious candidate. They make a choice to accept whatever the outcome is, and then they complain about the outcome anyway.
Do they think the system has ever been fair? We’re truly a pathetic generation of so called liberals if we’re too apathetic to fight for a better world. Civil rights, gay rights, women’s suffrage, labor rights – they went up against a much worse situation, and they didn’t balk.
To be fair, in all my responses, I am mostly referring to presidential elections, I’m not arguing that the small local stuff can and does matter, and sometimes those races come down to just a few votes. Ya that’s true.
Don’t think there’s any harm in it at all, I just don’t care, and if I don’t care I’m not engaged and educated on all the issues, then should I really be voting? Or is better I sit out since I’m not following anything at all and can’t make good informed decisions anymore?
Lots of downvotes 🤣 Confused as to why on this specific comment! I am supposed to make uniformed decisions when I vote? Because your downvotes make it seem like I need to vote whether I’m informed or not, which seems just as silly or dumb as anything else in this thread…
I think it’s because it seems like you’re saying “I’m ignorant, there’s nothing I can do. Woe, is me. Also, I like to be this way and people that aren’t ignorant like me are actually the ones that are ignorant because they think things matter. Except, I’ll admit, somethings actually do really matter, just not the most important things, which as I’ve said and demonstrated I’m very ignorant about.”
Voting is literally the absolute bare minimum you can do to make sure fascists aren’t in power. I hate democrats as much as the next guy, I just don’t vote for them when they’re not running against literal fascists, but a lot of republicans pretty much are just fascists waiting for the chance to take people’s rights and lock up dissenters and minorities. Keeping them from fucking things up is one of the most important things you can do.
And think about this: if your vote was meaningless, why would republicans fight tooth and nail to make it harder to vote? Your average American likes republicans a lot less than democrats and would vote for a democrat, especially among less privileged demographics. Republicans have been working for decades to prevent these people from voting, and tried to make it more of a pain in the ass for everyone else, with some voters even going so far as to set up with guns outside polling stations sometimes. Your vote absolutely counts, and the more people realize that the truer it will be.
If you’re not gonna vote, either do something more useful like protest or do work for your community or don’t complain when republicans win and make your life worse. You can do a mail in ballot or vote early, it takes almost no effort to do. I wouldn’t have voted for biden in 2020 if it weren’t so easy to vote, between covid and how little I like him I was just gonna stay at home.
I think the only hope for the US and the world to not get completely fucked by war, oppression, and climate change is to vote for democrats, even ones who have done some shitty things, when they run against politicians whose main goal is to bring more war and oppression and climate change. As fucked up as the two party system is, it’s what we’re stuck with for now, and the only two paths towards reforming it are keeping the far right out of office, or a revolution that would kill at least thousands and maybe make things worse. I don’t think things are hopeless enough yet, for the country or the environment, for the latter to be a good idea. That stays the case unless we get 8+ years of DeSantis or Trump or RFK or anyone similarly fashy with republicans in control of everything
Nope. I haven’t lived in the US for 14 years. I’m not voting. I’m not protesting shit, nobody is listening anyway, why would I bother. No, I’m done. I have a higher quality of life where I live now, I’m just a spectator. The US is in a downward trajectory, my one vote will not change that.
I did volunteer by the way, I came home to volunteer for Bernie’s campaign both times. It’s not like I didn’t care, I voted nearly 20 years of life that I was able to, it hasn’t meant a damn thing except disappointment. I’m perfectly fine just watching the world burn, my vote can’t stop it. Nothing I do can stop it. I’m just going to chill and enjoy my time, watch show, enjoy the ride.
If anyone has a time machine and we can go back to before Bernie got robbed, I’ll vote. But not anymore, not a chance. No matter how I use or don’t use my vote, it will be the wrong choice. This is not my fault, I had nothing to do with how we got to now, until not I have always voted, just now now, not anymore. And what did all those votes get me? Jack shit.
Seriously! I did like 10 jumping jacks once and ate two carrots a couple years ago, and guess what? I still don’t have a six pack. People that work out are just lying to make us feel bad. Don’t fall for it!
That said, I live in a different place now where sensible legislation results in me having easier access to better, healthier food. I’ve even been able to replace my commute to work with a bike ride instead of a long drive in a car. I’m so much healthier now thanks to the way the people here vote.
Because you know the rules. It’s arbitrary yes, but in every election except 00 it’s been arbitrary and predefined what the rules are. The best way for the person you want to win to lose it to not vote
Nah, his position is literally only understandable if you’ve never had a conversation ever with a queer person, a PoC, or a woman who has thoughts other than quiverfull syndrome baby madness.
I honestly think people like you are why Trump ever got elected. You have no clue what kind of person @jo3jo3 and yet you call them stupid and spew almost the same kind of vile that you claim to warn against by them not voting. It really makes no sense to me how you can equate someone disillusioned with the entire process to be the same as someone who is out to get you. If you want more people to vote Democrat, then when people vote for your candidate merely because they hate the other candidate so much, then next time find a better candidate. Don’t tell them in 4 years, oh, we decided to not change a thing and you now have the same choice… either vote for our same mediocre candidate, or else the world will end. The doomsday gloom strategy only works if people believe you actually want change, not once you’ve shown them that is your entire strategy.
In other words, you can ask for money saying you can’t pay your rent, but when I see you spending it while out partying and you ask me again… don’t expect me to trust you.
That’s what you’re going with? People like me are the reason Trump got elected?
Not the protest votes? Not the people who sat home? It was me who is responsible. The person who voted Hillary in a deep red state knowing it would amount to virtually nothing but held my nose and did it anyway. I’m the person responsible.
Yes… here you are calling people stupid instead of holding your own party accountable. If you actually had any awareness, you’d be telling people how the Democrats have changed since 2016. Or what the Democratic party has done different since 2020 to regain trust. Instead, your ad hominem attacks make you out to be the one lacking intelligence. The ironic thing is, us stupid people actually feel bad for people like you. Like, despite you telling us that you’ve hated us since 2016, we just hope that you leave the cult one day.
Lol, no awareness. I am not a Democrat. If you can’t do the calculus to see a person like Trump should not be in government and anyone who thinks he should, should be opposed you are a lost cause. I can’t help you. Just do better, ok?
No where did I say I supported Trump. Your mind doesn’t seem to comprehend that not voting doesn’t mean you support other candidate. Good luck to you too. I hope I don’t see you on the news for beating up a disabled person that didn’t vote on election day because you thought they were a Trump supporter.
Get off it, you’re not morally superior. You’re just a coward who can’t accept that some people don’t understand how to compromise and mitigate shitty situations.
Shit, we’ve had elections where the issue was less than 1,012 votes. Wikipedia even has an entire list of close votes. It’s insane how many are so close. It’s much more common than one would think.
Then you are letting the people you hate the most win. Don’t let them win. If anything, vote so you can say you didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world.
But they all fuck over the world, every vote is the wrong vote when they give you two shit options. Screw that, I’m a spectator now, this shit is burning to the ground, I’m not participating, I’m just watching.
I can’t criticize you, but you are choosing anarchy. Not sure what your history and upbringing is, but anarchy can be significantly worse than what you have now. If you’re not a white male, there are many places in the world with anarchy where your life is under valued even more than in America.
They already won. They got SCOTUS and Roe overturned and gerrymandered themselves to absolute authoritarian rule because you never took them seriously. You even said in 2015 that the GOP was dead and collapsed and would never have a chance at power again.
The entire centrist/liberal social mediasphere said that, along with their mainstream media pundits. They’re doing it again right now, even after having lost the House and still “sharing power with” McConnell.
You think it will get better if you just ignore it? You think it will be better if Trump is back in Power?
Sadly it seems that American democracy is voting for the lesser of two evils, but if you don’t vote at all you will be stuck with the worse of two evils for a long time, and I am worried about the consequences of that for both America and the rest of the world.
If anything, vote so you can say you didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world.
I’ve tried that too. I still lost, still bummed out, still felt like I made zero difference, still criticized by others even when using my vote so I can say at least I didn’t vote for the guy that’s fucking over the world like you said. For reference, I voted Obama, then Jill Stein, then the last two times I wrote in Bernie. So I did use my votes, and I always got the same response people gave me here, that I was dumb voting third party, or an idiot to waste my vote writing in Bernie. People would tell me a write in or voting third party was essentially a vote for the wrong team. So when I use my vote, it’s wrong, if I don’t use my vote it’s wrong. Now I just don’t want to participate anymore. So maybe “they” win now since I’ve checked out, but is that any different than playing this rigged game my whole life, holding out hope things will change and get better, when in the end, “they” will always win?
Don’t be a single issue voter either. Shit is too important to throw away your most valuable resource to combat climate change, ensure world peace, fund science and medical research, and equal rights for everyone.
like the dems have done fucking anything but follow the republicans on this matter.
And not voting is just selfish. Trump’s policies would kill more Palestinians, and we’d go decades back on climate change. The purity of one’s ideals isn’t worth more than that.
No but I think it would be consolation to the children who are alive but would be torn apart by direct American artillery under Trump.
I have no love for Israel. Sorry to break it to you, but people who disagree with you on something aren’t automatically devout supporters of the IDF. Someone can be “on your side” and still disagree with you because you’re an asshole.
Also you’re literally opposing the choice that leads to fewer Palestinians dying.
He will be the Republican nominee and as such there will be a push that the rules do not apply to him.
Alternately they will attempt to get Biden removed in the same states because “reasons”.
There is a firm belief that if nobody gets to 270, they win because the President would be decided in the House, one vote per state, and there are more red states than blue states.
If we want to be taken seriously, we need to bring a serious amount of people to the game. We need some fucking Polish energy if we expect to bring this country around
I mean TBF almost 50% of people aged 18-24 voted in 2020. If even 10% of those people don't vote for Biden because he was complicit in genocide he's fucked.
I mean there is statistical evidence that Trump causes a spike in hate crimes. Not surprising to anyone but then think about this inevitability when you are deciding whether or not to vote.
The entire US is complicit. Tell me what have you done besides talk on the internet. I remember going to protests in the 90s, when there seemed to be a chance for peace. But the Israelis were lying about their intentions and they just had to wait for their little experiment to take effect and destroy all chances. I want this war to end but not with us engaging in the middle east ever again.
Well these protests are happening around the world, the issue is they are being co-opted by extremists and facists. Every one wants immediate action but for different purposes. This issue is and will always be a landmine. I truly want a more progressive social democrat as my leader but the US is screwed as long as they have an electoral college that voted for the people.
Bit of a dead end for that energy now though. There were two bites at the apple wither Bernie Sanders, which illustrated the DNC will pill out stops to keep party loyals. So what's left for a mobilized progressive movement? Cant fight in the party, cant fight outside the party.
Bernie proved that the most vocal pussies online won’t actually show up when it matters. The DNC didn’t have to pull out any stops when single digits of eligible voters in the 18-29 group bothered to actually show up.
Stop with the Bernie Sanders crocodile tears. Are you just going to ignore what HE says to do? Because I’m pretty sure he says vote against the orange reincarnation of Adolf.
Love this comment. Young people have to save the world, as it has always been. Yet the powers that be do everything possible to discourage them from utilizing the incredible power that they have.
The only answer that democrats have: “Who else are you going to vote for – Trump? 😏”
This is why the US will inevitably slide into fascism. You’ve got a party of fascists and then another party that helps out fascists in a number of ways: salon.com/…/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentio…
Democrats like to position themselves as “the thin blue line” that separates civil society from a fascist hellhole, but just like “the thin blue line” known as the police, they’ve got fascist tendencies if they’re not simply full-blown fascists. To think that this is called a democracy.
That’s a bingo. I was elated when I had that realization, but also sad that there was nothing we can do about it. It’s what leads me to accelerationist tendencies, that I struggle with. It’s a facet of the ratchet effect in the 2 party system. But when you explain this to people you are called a pessimist and defeatist. It’s reality. On the bright side, after fascism comes a “golden” period, but climate change will limit its possibilities.
On the bright side, after fascism comes a “golden” period
I’m not so sure about that, there are plenty of countries that have been dictatorships for generations. Modern developments in weapons technology and surveillance also gives the governments of today, and tomorrow, a lot more alternatives to suppress a population than in the past.
There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. To cut off your nose in spite of your face is not the path forward. I want more support for the Palestinians but you also got extreme radicals that are protesting for Palestinian freedom and to establish a caliphate like in Germany. The other side of this conflict is so fragmented my arguments for human rights gets drowned out by religious extremists on both sides. This war didn't start this year, it started decades ago. Where were all the SJWs then?
I wish it was simply a matter of “it’s not perfect” but the problem is actually “it’s not a democracy”. Just take a look at the approval rate of congress: news.gallup.com/…/congress-job-approval-drops-low…We’re supposedly in a representative democracy but the representatives have an approval rating of 13%. Tell me how that makes sense.
You’re right, the war didn’t start this year, as Israel has been committing human rights violations and taking more and more Palestinian land for decades. Support for Palestine has only increased as more people have seen the truth and I attribute part of that to social media and the ability to share another side of the story (complete with recorded video, thanks to phones) instead of the narrative being dominated by large mainstream media outlets.
We’re supposedly in a representative democracy but the representatives have an approval rating of 13%. Tell me how that makes sense.
Not trying to justify things as they stand, but an impprtant caveat is that’s for Congress as a whole. Ask people how they feel about their rep and you get much different numbers. Basically, everyone else is the problem.
To your point about the US slide into fascism, thats why I think that this election is very very very important. Imagine what a post-second-term Trump presidential race would look like for a second. Trump is winning as the strong man. You think Dems would counter with someone reasonable? No. Both parties are putting up new people. And guess what? Neither are good and both are populists and both are young and hungry for power. I don’t need to tell everyone that someone like DeSantis would be absolutely insane, but I will. That’s the up and coming from republicans. That’s who sits behind trump next.
I have good news though. The house of cards that republicans are playing is obvious. It can and I’d say probably will crash if trump loses. If he loses, there is zero reason to pay him attention. Literally ignore him, doesn’t matter. Don’t have to follow his orders.
And trump is a fascist that will actually kill the platform itself in my view. I think he could topple the whole tower back down to where republicans can’t agree with each other. He also has the power to split the party.
Basically, the longer that the republicans fail or split, that’s when you’ll get to know the democrats better.
I’d love nothing more than for the republican party to slide into complete irrelevance, but I heard the same thing after Bush’s two disastrous terms culminating in a once-in-a-lifetime financial crisis and after Mitt Romney lost, people were saying that republicans are having a demographic crisis and that they’re at risk of never winning another election. The problem is that democrats themselves have said they don’t want this:
Both Biden and Pelosi said that the country needs the republican party. When was the last time the republican party wasn’t horrible? Just like how whenever democrats get a majority, the exact number of senators turn heel to prevent anything progressive from moving forward, I’m sure democrats will find a way to keep the republican party relevant.
It’s entirely possible that democrats will try to hold together what’s left of the Republican Party after 2024. Let me state some points first: -Trump is a massive populist, he has created new issues for voters and completely skewed the stance of the party -Trump also has demanded loyalty from congress. He has people in power who are far far far more dedicated to him than the party -It is unlikely that whatever happens in 2024 will be uneventful. Be it jail, re-election, whatever.
That all being said, Bush was incompetent and this road is long but yes the republicans have been losing for awhile now. They are unpopular and have arguably lost the majority of the vote for 30 years. Their issues are failing them. Their leader is morally bankrupt.
Another big reason is demographics. Their demographics have been aged older and older with time. But instead of fluctuations or slow decline, we’re seeing massive unpopularity with younger crowds.
This makes it very hard to pivot. They don’t have many ways to appeal to young voters without losing their older base. They lost themselves entirely over trump in 2016 and in 2020. Senators who didn’t support trump lost their support. So it’s clear that a lot of the future of the party hinges on trump winning 2024. And I view that as unlikely.
2024 will basically be a race between a cult leader who deserves to be if they aren’t already in jail, and Biden. If you are in the cult, you live in a one party state, if you are out of the cult, you live in a one party state. I see young activists getting screwed either way.
It’s a vote for democracy or not and it’s pretty much at the platform level not just the president. Any GOP majority in either chamber wiill either block democracy or if Trump is the president help dismantle democracy. Same at the state level for the most part.
Don’t forget to vote November 7. I’m tired of hearing about book bannings, PragerU getting to our schools, and other hate based policies at the state and town levels.
It’s a vote for democracy or not and it’s pretty much at the platform level not just the president. Any GOP majority in either chamber wiill either block democracy or if Trump is the president help dismantle democracy. Same at the state level for the most part.
america is not a democracy its a plutocracy, america can literally burn for all i care.
This is “they’re all the same” bullshit that some groups use to dissuade you from comparing and deciding on your own. That, and it’s just ageist rhetoric, ignoring Trump is nearly just as old
Don’t listen to this shit. Look at what they say AND what they do, in total. Single issue, lazy, dogmatic, thinking is how we got into this sorry state to begin with.
It really isn’t, it’s just criticizing the lack of choice. Unfortunately, people like you are ignorant enough to believe there aren’t better forms of democracy whereas in Europe there are no shortage of countries where you can vote an actual choice of parties and not throw your vote away because of simple majority rules.
Both parties aren’t the same (the use of the word cult should have been a big hint), but you’d have to be a special kind of fool to be praising the lack of choice you have. The world is bigger than your ignorance.
Ageist rhetoric, that’s just your gaslighting, I never brought it up, nor do I se anyone other than you gaslight with it. You are basically regurgitating political propaganda that isn’t even relevant to the comment…
You are free to pat yourself for your lack of choice. If single issue, lazy, dogmatic, thinking is how you got into this sorry state to begin with, then why are you perpetuating it?
This is “they’re all the same” bullshit that some groups use to dissuade you from comparing and deciding on your own. That, and it’s just ageist rhetoric, ignoring Trump is nearly just as old
no your ‘vote’ rhetoric is a fucking lie where we must pretend our voices matter for your sake since you’re so attached to this fucking illusion of democracy
No it doesn’t. That’s a false dichotomy. A person can choose to support Marianne Williamson, or not vote at all. Also, framing it as an ultimatum makes a voter defensive and more likely to vote for someone else.
And that accomplishes nothing but a Trump victory.
Also you know that Williamson has her own hang ups right? Older gay people seem to have a very visceral dislike of her for the AIDS epidemic. She ended up convincing people that the illness was a “psychic scream” from your body, telling you to love yourself more.
So they went off their medications, and then died, thinking they were incapable of loving themselves hard enough. Williamson hasn’t apologized at all for it and outright lies about what she said.
You know what causes a Trump victory? The DNC putting forward corporate candidates that don’t inspire their base, and then saying if you don’t vote for them that you support the other party.
You say their base as if you’re not talking about the demographic that couldn’t be assed to turn out to the primaries to back the candidate they were allegedly so inspired by.
Yeah, he could have won anyways if y’all could have actually given a fuck instead of lecturing why it was everyone else’s job to just do what you want even if you weren’t going to do the one thing that registers you even want it.
Sanders himself expressed disappointment that not as many young people turned out as he had hoped nor needed.
There’s no getting around it. Sanders’ argument was that he would get massive youth turnout and disaffected workers to win the election. That didn’t even happen in the primaries.
I’m a progressive, and I find it utterly idiotic that some progressives would rather “blame the big evil DNC for telling Hillary there either be a question about drinking water in a debate in Flint” than do some introspection. If I wanted to blame all my problems on a nebulous government organization, I’d be wearing a maga hat.
If people have to be “inspired” to vote for LGBT rights and abortion and climate change, and they aren’t going to vote for those otherwise, I’d frankly like them to get the fuck out. Solidarity doesn’t mean “sure I’ll help but only if I’m inspired”, nor is there an existential climate crisis if you have to be “inspired” to vote for addressing it.
It’s truly baffling to me just how hypocritical it is. These people don’t actually care about the issues, they just want to listen to someone that makes them feel good.
No. I’m telling you because my fucking human rights are on the line, and the fact that that’s not enough for you to shut up and listen instead of gaslighting me with “calm down” basically gives everything I need to know about you away.
Trump has thrown his support behind Russia, who supports Iran, who supports Hamas. It’s not much of a stretch to say that Trump supports Russia in Ukraine, and Hamas over Israel.
Every time I see news about the US I’m more glad I don’t live there. How the hell are your only choices a fascist cult leader and a genocide supporter? How is the most armed country so compliant?
Lots of people said something similar in 2016. Don’t underestimate the America public and the GOP to find a way to put the worst possible person in power.
Just watch trump will win and he will get away with all his legal troubles. Ukraine will fall, Gaza will be nothing but sand and death, and our democracy will take it’s last dying breath as we fully become an oligarchy.
Oh okay I didn’t realize all I had Todo was overthrow a government with the most powerful military in the world and just aspire a little harder.
Thanks so much for that insightful comment I should be able to get this all done by Wednesday. Thanks for the bullet proof plan.
I vote in the primaries, I vote in every election, I try my best to get everybody around me to vote as well. I’m trying to work within the system so we can try to change it for the better while we still can.
Your username reminds me too – we have to work in the system. For one, countries collapsing don’t totally come out in better shape. But second, people rely on the system to get life-changing medicine regularly. If society collapses, a lot of people are going to die because they can’t get their medicine that’s necessary to live. A lot more people are going to be nonfunctional because of compromised physical or mental health.
People should vote for Biden over the other guy because the other guy is the worst.
But Biden and his team are fucking morons if they believe funding a genocide won’t cost them any votes. Democratic voters aren’t in a cult, don’t expect 100% of them to fall in line when their president doing extremely unpopular things.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Support Gaza, you lose the Jewish vote, and that might be something that could actually hand victories to the Republicans.
That is not at all what I am saying. I absolutely think what Israel is doing in Gaza is terrible.
Now this might just be me talking at a wall at this point, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, my earlier comment is just me speaking pragmatically. I disagree with the premise of the article, that Biden will lose the election to Trump or whichever other Republican candidate is nominated due to his stance on Palestine, for a couple reasons.
First is that the Republicans are no more likely to support Palestine than the Democrats. In fact, I’d argue the opposite is true. I see the situation only escalating further with how overtly anti-Muslim the majority of Republicans are.
Second is the idea that choosing not to support Palestine is going to cost more voters than it gains. The US is deeply divided on this issue, but the fact of the matter is that there are more people taking Israel’s side in the US than Palestine’s. It is likelier that Republicans would gain more votes from Biden siding with Palestine than Biden is losing by siding with Israel.
If this article is contributing to a narrative that more people should vote for Trump over Biden because of Biden’s lack of support towards Palestine, and if that causes Trump to win, then all hope of a future for Palestine is truly lost.
Anyways Biden just had hundreds of jews arrested for supporting palestine just the other day so I think he’s still losing the jewish vote since they can’t do that from prison
But Biden and his team are fucking morons if they believe funding a genocide won’t cost them any votes. Democratic voters aren’t in a cult, don’t expect 100% of them to fall in line when their president doing extremely unpopular things.
if you aren’t in a cult then you should leave when the party does A FUCKING GENOCIDE
And do what, vote for Republicans? If you really cared about genocide the Democrats are the only party that have a ceasefire now caucus the USA. The squad has been great.
Not any great options next November. I just want others to focus on blaming leaders because Americans get in a bad habit of blaming voters when time and again it’s the leaders doing stuff the voters never asked for.
no but biden can guarantee the muslims can watch their children scream as israeli tanks slowly crush them until they pop so americans can have the best of both parties
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